Perma-rooting has got to go.

frostz417 · January 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

Half the snares in the game will require a recast if you roll dodge out of it, costing you just as much as it costs us to recast our snare.

MagSorc escapes have increasing costs per use the same way roll dodge does, but it doesn't matter, I use a roll dodge + streak to escape literally everyone open world.

If your complaining about snares in BG's you're just soft. It is your teams fault if you're being constantly snared.

I’m not even going to make a give a proper reply to this? Are we playing the same game?

ccmedaddy · January 2019

Did someone really suggest Blue Betty as magicka warden's counter to snares... 🙃

Toc de Malsvi · January 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

People are upset because they are being slowed and might actually need to use the multiple snares / gap closers provided to stamina classes to actually lock people down.

This is what you get, you either give ranged the ability to kite through skills like snares - or you give them massive shields.

The amount of cake eaters on these forums has reached ridiculous levels.

No, people are using the abundance of snare/root counters and still being constantly snared/rooted and run out of resources. The fact that you assess snares as ranged kiting and treat them as an equivalence to massive shields, speaks volumes to your statements and the inherent ignorance therein.

No one is legit kiting with Snares/Root they are stacking tanking builds and snares that deal pathetic burst damage but eat resources and dot you to death. These builds are not hard to fight 1v1, but they are neigh impossible to disengage from. As a group they become neigh unkillable while making the entire BG a snoozefest of buff/aoe spamming. That is if you are lucky enough to have a decent group supporting you. If not you just get run down any time you step out of the spawn because the counters to the snares/roots are not nearly as effective as the snares/roots themselves.

wheem_ESO · January 2019

To clarify a few things from the OP:

1) I'm talking about roots, not snares. There may be some arguments to be made regarding nerfs/changes to snares, at least when it comes to some abilities or passives, but that's not what I'm referring to here.

2) I've exclusively been playing a Magicka Warden since Murkmire's release; not a Stamina build that's refusing to use gap closers, Forward Momentum, etc...

3) The counters that have been mentioned so far aren't good enough, especially for Magicka builds. Balancing counters without some changes to roots themselves is going to be incredibly tricky; it would be very easy to end up in a situation where the roots are either utterly worthless, or still overpowered (or both, depending on which classes/builds are involved).

It's possible that the issue with root spam isn't prevalent on every server or platform, but in many of the recent high MMR Battlegrounds on PC-NA, it can get downright silly. Contrary to what some posters seem to be suggesting, it's not just a case of getting hit by 1 root and zerged down because I'm out of Stam, then rushing to the forums to complain. Instead, it's being rooted over, and over, and over, and over again for the entire match, start to finish. And it's not just from Ice Staves, either, though they're becoming more and more common.

Being spam rooted has always been the bane of Magicka Wardens, but back in the day that only really happened against Mag DKs. Now it happens against: Mag DK, Mag Sorc, every other Mag build that's using an Ice Staff (especially if abusing the Charged trait), Bow users with Bombard, and anyone using the "right" poisons. With a few of "those players" in a match, along with some occasional roots from a Stam DK, mobility all but ceases to exist, and my aiming of Deep Fissure and/or certain heals on teammates is impacted far too much.

Toc de Malsvi · January 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

To clarify a few things from the OP:

1) I'm talking about roots, not snares. There may be some arguments to be made regarding nerfs/changes to snares, at least when it comes to some abilities or passives, but that's not what I'm referring to here.

2) I've exclusively been playing a Magicka Warden since Murkmire's release; not a Stamina build that's refusing to use gap closers, Forward Momentum, etc...

3) The counters that have been mentioned so far aren't good enough, especially for Magicka builds. Balancing counters without some changes to roots themselves is going to be incredibly tricky; it would be very easy to end up in a situation where the roots are either utterly worthless, or still overpowered (or both, depending on which classes/builds are involved).

It's possible that the issue with root spam isn't prevalent on every server or platform, but in many of the recent high MMR Battlegrounds on PC-NA, it can get downright silly. Contrary to what some posters seem to be suggesting, it's not just a case of getting hit by 1 root and zerged down because I'm out of Stam, then rushing to the forums to complain. Instead, it's being rooted over, and over, and over, and over again for the entire match, start to finish. And it's not just from Ice Staves, either, though they're becoming more and more common.

Being spam rooted has always been the bane of Magicka Wardens, but back in the day that only really happened against Mag DKs. Now it happens against: Mag DK, Mag Sorc, every other Mag build that's using an Ice Staff (especially if abusing the Charged trait), Bow users with Bombard, and anyone using the "right" poisons. With a few of "those players" in a match, along with some occasional roots from a Stam DK, mobility all but ceases to exist, and my aiming of Deep Fissure and/or certain heals on teammates is impacted far too much.

At least with Bombard you have a cooldown, they changed Bombard a long time ago precisely because of these complaints.

Crixus8000 · January 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

Stamina toons have ridiculously high sustain in this patch.

Am I missing something ? Most stam builds run forward and now it has to be cast twice as often, and since snares usually just go through immunity anyway it means basically needing to spam it. And as a stamsorc dark deal was nerfed too. I could run with 1k stam rec last patch I need around 1.8k to feel the same so that is a pretty large sustain nerf.

MalagenR wrote: »

If you're getting constantly snared you're just bad dude.

Nothing to do with skill on the recieving end. Most skills come with a free snare and when fighting groups you will have so many snares flying at you. I have had fights where I am just rooted still, even forward does nothing due to the bugs. That is not balanced. And even when forward does decide to work properly, having only 4 seconds to land burst/heal/buff is so small, especially as a solo/smallscale player fighting outnumbered all the time.

MalagenR · January 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

To clarify a few things from the OP:

1) I'm talking about roots, not snares. There may be some arguments to be made regarding nerfs/changes to snares, at least when it comes to some abilities or passives, but that's not what I'm referring to here.

2) I've exclusively been playing a Magicka Warden since Murkmire's release; not a Stamina build that's refusing to use gap closers, Forward Momentum, etc...

3) The counters that have been mentioned so far aren't good enough, especially for Magicka builds. Balancing counters without some changes to roots themselves is going to be incredibly tricky; it would be very easy to end up in a situation where the roots are either utterly worthless, or still overpowered (or both, depending on which classes/builds are involved).

It's possible that the issue with root spam isn't prevalent on every server or platform, but in many of the recent high MMR Battlegrounds on PC-NA, it can get downright silly. Contrary to what some posters seem to be suggesting, it's not just a case of getting hit by 1 root and zerged down because I'm out of Stam, then rushing to the forums to complain. Instead, it's being rooted over, and over, and over, and over again for the entire match, start to finish. And it's not just from Ice Staves, either, though they're becoming more and more common.

Being spam rooted has always been the bane of Magicka Wardens, but back in the day that only really happened against Mag DKs. Now it happens against: Mag DK, Mag Sorc, every other Mag build that's using an Ice Staff (especially if abusing the Charged trait), Bow users with Bombard, and anyone using the "right" poisons. With a few of "those players" in a match, along with some occasional roots from a Stam DK, mobility all but ceases to exist, and my aiming of Deep Fissure and/or certain heals on teammates is impacted far too much.

Still sounds like a PUG BG Que problem and it must be because I play Open World CP that I don't see it as much. Plenty of ways to form groups in BG's that counter snares / Perma pre-mades.

You need 1 Negate Sorc - 1 Resto Ult - etc. etc. list goes on and on. You want adjustments to be made because nobody wants to change their playstyle / group composition to fight against what the predominant group set up is right now.

The Perma running groups are not over performing in my opinion - it's just the easiest group comp to create because it doesn't matter what offensive ultimates you run with it, they're all effective, where as on the flip side if you don't want to run it you'll need to build to counter it in specific ways.

Before we continue, do you run in a premade group or solo que?

GL.

Sy1ph5 · January 2019

How about you address the fact that snares and roots are attached to actually useful offensive abilities and that the counter play to them is attached to otherwise useless abilities. The imbalance is clear.

Xvorg · January 2019

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

How about you address the fact that snares and roots are attached to actually useful offensive abilities and that the counter play to them is attached to otherwise useless abilities. The imbalance is clear.

such as?

MaxJrFTW · January 2019

Couple of days ago i was in this game full of ice wardens. I'm still a bit of a nub, so i thought cleansing the root would at least give me some sort of immunity for a couple of seconds...Nope, i cleansed and immediately got rooted again, and again, and again, and again. I got rooted 4 times in a row immediately after a using cleansing ritual. I'm assuming that was the result of blockade + the charged trait?

I leveled up a mag warden during the xp event and i will sure as hell exploit the crap out of this until they fix it. It's too op to pass up.

sharquez · January 2019

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

How about you address the fact that snares and roots are attached to actually useful offensive abilities and that the counter play to them is attached to otherwise useless abilities. The imbalance is clear.

This is intentional. Players are supposed to die in PVP. This is why offense is in most cases better than defense. The way the skills are balanced also punishes players for bad positioning/lack of intel. There are counterplay tools but if the counterplay is as good or better than the offending skills whats the point? Everything will just stalemate.

Qbiken · January 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Couple of days ago i was in this game full of ice wardens. I'm still a bit of a nub, so i thought cleansing the root would at least give me some sort of immunity for a couple of seconds...Nope, i cleansed and immediately got rooted again, and again, and again, and again. I got rooted 4 times in a row immediately after a using cleansing ritual. I'm assuming that was the result of blockade + the charged trait?

I leveled up a mag warden during the xp event and i will sure as hell exploit the crap out of this until they fix it. It's too op to pass up.

dId YoU uSe A gApClOsEr?

wheem_ESO · January 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Couple of days ago i was in this game full of ice wardens. I'm still a bit of a nub, so i thought cleansing the root would at least give me some sort of immunity for a couple of seconds...Nope, i cleansed and immediately got rooted again, and again, and again, and again. I got rooted 4 times in a row immediately after a using cleansing ritual. I'm assuming that was the result of blockade + the charged trait?

I leveled up a mag warden during the xp event and i will sure as hell exploit the crap out of this until they fix it. It's too op to pass up.

If you have the Chilled status effect on and take damage from Wall of Frost, you'll get rooted if you don't have actual root immunity. This means that if a cleanse removes the root debuff, but not chilled, you'll be instantly rooted again if the Wall of Frost is still down.

With multiple people running Ice Staves, Frost Enchants, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...there are many chances to have Chilled applied and re-applied quite frequently. So even if your cleanse removes both Chilled and the root debuff, there's still a chance that you're going to get instantly re-rooted (and the more people there are using Frost Staves and damage, the more likely that is). As a Magicka Templar, your best counters are Dodge Roll and Mist Form, both of which can come with some pretty significant drawbacks.

I really hope ZOS doesn't make Ice Staves useless, but the current amount of rooting is most certainly over the top. But, again, it's not just Ice Staves; Sorcs, DKs, and Stam builds with Bombard can all contribute to the long-term locking down.

Toc de Malsvi · January 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Couple of days ago i was in this game full of ice wardens. I'm still a bit of a nub, so i thought cleansing the root would at least give me some sort of immunity for a couple of seconds...Nope, i cleansed and immediately got rooted again, and again, and again, and again. I got rooted 4 times in a row immediately after a using cleansing ritual. I'm assuming that was the result of blockade + the charged trait?

I leveled up a mag warden during the xp event and i will sure as hell exploit the crap out of this until they fix it. It's too op to pass up.

If you have the Chilled status effect on and take damage from Wall of Frost, you'll get rooted if you don't have actual root immunity. This means that if a cleanse removes the root debuff, but not chilled, you'll be instantly rooted again if the Wall of Frost is still down.

With multiple people running Ice Staves, Frost Enchants, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...there are many chances to have Chilled applied and re-applied quite frequently. So even if your cleanse removes both Chilled and the root debuff, there's still a chance that you're going to get instantly re-rooted (and the more people there are using Frost Staves and damage, the more likely that is). As a Magicka Templar, your best counters are Dodge Roll and Mist Form, both of which can come with some pretty significant drawbacks.

I really hope ZOS doesn't make Ice Staves useless, but the current amount of rooting is most certainly over the top. But, again, it's not just Ice Staves; Sorcs, DKs, and Stam builds with Bombard can all contribute to the long-term locking down.

You keep referencing using Bombard, there is a reason why virtually no one is using Bombard: "Does not immobilize enemies that are Snared."

Bombard immobilize does not work on anyone who has been snared which means at this point 95% of all combatants after combat is initiated. Bombard itself snares which means it has a self induced cool down if you happen to run no other snare effects and no one else is snaring them. Otherwise it's just useless.

Waffennacht · January 2019

O.o; = my face when reading people play a mag class in this meta that's not a healer

wheem_ESO · January 2019

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Couple of days ago i was in this game full of ice wardens. I'm still a bit of a nub, so i thought cleansing the root would at least give me some sort of immunity for a couple of seconds...Nope, i cleansed and immediately got rooted again, and again, and again, and again. I got rooted 4 times in a row immediately after a using cleansing ritual. I'm assuming that was the result of blockade + the charged trait?

I leveled up a mag warden during the xp event and i will sure as hell exploit the crap out of this until they fix it. It's too op to pass up.

If you have the Chilled status effect on and take damage from Wall of Frost, you'll get rooted if you don't have actual root immunity. This means that if a cleanse removes the root debuff, but not chilled, you'll be instantly rooted again if the Wall of Frost is still down.

With multiple people running Ice Staves, Frost Enchants, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...there are many chances to have Chilled applied and re-applied quite frequently. So even if your cleanse removes both Chilled and the root debuff, there's still a chance that you're going to get instantly re-rooted (and the more people there are using Frost Staves and damage, the more likely that is). As a Magicka Templar, your best counters are Dodge Roll and Mist Form, both of which can come with some pretty significant drawbacks.

I really hope ZOS doesn't make Ice Staves useless, but the current amount of rooting is most certainly over the top. But, again, it's not just Ice Staves; Sorcs, DKs, and Stam builds with Bombard can all contribute to the long-term locking down.

You keep referencing using Bombard, there is a reason why virtually no one is using Bombard: "Does not immobilize enemies that are Snared."

Bombard immobilize does not work on anyone who has been snared which means at this point 95% of all combatants after combat is initiated. Bombard itself snares which means it has a self induced cool down if you happen to run no other snare effects and no one else is snaring them. Otherwise it's just useless.

Are you sure it's not bugged, then? There are a few people who run it at least some of the time on PC-NA, and I've been rooted by it quite frequently when they're in the game, even if hit with all sorts of other status effects.

Waffennacht · January 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Couple of days ago i was in this game full of ice wardens. I'm still a bit of a nub, so i thought cleansing the root would at least give me some sort of immunity for a couple of seconds...Nope, i cleansed and immediately got rooted again, and again, and again, and again. I got rooted 4 times in a row immediately after a using cleansing ritual. I'm assuming that was the result of blockade + the charged trait?

I leveled up a mag warden during the xp event and i will sure as hell exploit the crap out of this until they fix it. It's too op to pass up.

If you have the Chilled status effect on and take damage from Wall of Frost, you'll get rooted if you don't have actual root immunity. This means that if a cleanse removes the root debuff, but not chilled, you'll be instantly rooted again if the Wall of Frost is still down.

With multiple people running Ice Staves, Frost Enchants, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...there are many chances to have Chilled applied and re-applied quite frequently. So even if your cleanse removes both Chilled and the root debuff, there's still a chance that you're going to get instantly re-rooted (and the more people there are using Frost Staves and damage, the more likely that is). As a Magicka Templar, your best counters are Dodge Roll and Mist Form, both of which can come with some pretty significant drawbacks.

I really hope ZOS doesn't make Ice Staves useless, but the current amount of rooting is most certainly over the top. But, again, it's not just Ice Staves; Sorcs, DKs, and Stam builds with Bombard can all contribute to the long-term locking down.

You keep referencing using Bombard, there is a reason why virtually no one is using Bombard: "Does not immobilize enemies that are Snared."

Bombard immobilize does not work on anyone who has been snared which means at this point 95% of all combatants after combat is initiated. Bombard itself snares which means it has a self induced cool down if you happen to run no other snare effects and no one else is snaring them. Otherwise it's just useless.

Are you sure it's not bugged, then? There are a few people who run it at least some of the time on PC-NA, and I've been rooted by it quite frequently when they're in the game, even if hit with all sorts of other status effects.

Root poisons would be a guess, high chance to proc when facing multiple opponents and would still have a lot of utility.

There could be some less likely reasons to run it (Asylum Bow?)

As for the main topic, my biggest fear is a Nerf that'll put frost staff in the dirt completely.

jcm2606 · January 2019

How is it fun in any way to be constantly rooted and snared, basically being unable to move?

On the flip side,

How is it fun in any way to fight people who can barely fight back, because you're keeping them pinned from the over-abundance of roots and snares in your kit?

It isn't. Which is the problem. Root and snare spamming sucks the fun out of the game for both parties, leading to PVP just becoming a depressing battle of who can cripple each other the most.

The entire root and snare system needs to be taken back to the drawing boards. You should not be able to keep somebody pinned down 24/7, obliterating any chance of them fighting back, and actively sucking the fun out of the game for both you and your target. You should not be able to keep somebody at half movement speed from merely tagging them with a "spammable" like Rending Slashes, Jabs, Flying Blade.

Root immunity needs to be worked on, as the current counters just aren't effective enough for how braindead easy roots are to spam.

Sources of snares need to be reevaluated, snaring needs to be an explicit and conscious action on the part of the attacker, not implicitly applied by using their typical damage abilities.

Crixus8000 · January 2019

jcm2606 wrote: »

How is it fun in any way to be constantly rooted and snared, basically being unable to move?

On the flip side,

How is it fun in any way to fight people who can barely fight back, because you're keeping them pinned from the over-abundance of roots and snares in your kit?

It isn't. Which is the problem. Root and snare spamming sucks the fun out of the game for both parties, leading to PVP just becoming a depressing battle of who can cripple each other the most.

The entire root and snare system needs to be taken back to the drawing boards. You should not be able to keep somebody pinned down 24/7, obliterating any chance of them fighting back, and actively sucking the fun out of the game for both you and your target. You should not be able to keep somebody at half movement speed from merely tagging them with a "spammable" like Rending Slashes, Jabs, Flying Blade.

Root immunity needs to be worked on, as the current counters just aren't effective enough for how braindead easy roots are to spam.

Sources of snares need to be reevaluated, snaring needs to be an explicit and conscious action on the part of the attacker, not implicitly applied by using their typical damage abilities.

Well said. In other games I have played snares was mainly used at certain times, like stopping someone from escaping or as your getting burst off. I can't remember another game where you could have someone snared 100% of the time or so much they couldn't even move.

I hate how snares in this game just destroy combat. I'm being snared over and over for free, yet I have to spam a skill every 4 seconds and that's only when snares don't bug my defences, usually when outnumbered all I have time to do is spam forward since snares seem to ignore my defences much more then. It makes fighting boring, instead of fun engaging combat I have to just press one thing over and over or I can't move. Also poisons should not go through my damn immunity, I really can't understand how that is allowed.

NuarBlack · January 2019

Crixus8000 wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

How is it fun in any way to be constantly rooted and snared, basically being unable to move?

On the flip side,

How is it fun in any way to fight people who can barely fight back, because you're keeping them pinned from the over-abundance of roots and snares in your kit?

It isn't. Which is the problem. Root and snare spamming sucks the fun out of the game for both parties, leading to PVP just becoming a depressing battle of who can cripple each other the most.

The entire root and snare system needs to be taken back to the drawing boards. You should not be able to keep somebody pinned down 24/7, obliterating any chance of them fighting back, and actively sucking the fun out of the game for both you and your target. You should not be able to keep somebody at half movement speed from merely tagging them with a "spammable" like Rending Slashes, Jabs, Flying Blade.

Root immunity needs to be worked on, as the current counters just aren't effective enough for how braindead easy roots are to spam.

Sources of snares need to be reevaluated, snaring needs to be an explicit and conscious action on the part of the attacker, not implicitly applied by using their typical damage abilities.

Well said. In other games I have played snares was mainly used at certain times, like stopping someone from escaping or as your getting burst off. I can't remember another game where you could have someone snared 100% of the time or so much they couldn't even move.

I hate how snares in this game just destroy combat. I'm being snared over and over for free, yet I have to spam a skill every 4 seconds and that's only when snares don't bug my defences, usually when outnumbered all I have time to do is spam forward since snares seem to ignore my defences much more then. It makes fighting boring, instead of fun engaging combat I have to just press one thing over and over or I can't move. Also poisons should not go through my damn immunity, I really can't understand how that is allowed.

Not sure what games you have played but CC in general is a lot worse in other games than in ESO, its why I play ESO. All CC is on the same DR/immunity unlike most every other game. WoW rogues kept you at 70% slowed from crippling poison the whole fight, hunters at 50% from concussion shot, warriors could always keep you hamstrung, frost mages frost bolt slowed, shamans could frost shock on CD and druids could spam roots on you and keep you rooted for like 15 seconds till full DR set in. All you had was a trinket on a 2 min cd, paladin had blessing of freedom on I think 1 min CD and some healers could cleanse you. Rift was the same and Tera and Neverwinter only a little better. Plus none of them have spamable gap closers.

ESO is designed for console so button space is a premium so skills naturally need to carry more utility. But this isn't to say some of these couldn't be evaluated in regards to snares. Roots and major snares should be deliberate. I think the snares on jabs/sweeps is cause ZoS cant make the skill land reliably without it though and it falls off quick.

It also isn't fun to just constantly have a spin2win on top of you all the time with nothing you can do about it either. Light and medium need a means of kiting and keeping heavy brawlers off them some. I'm not sure how you balance this though so tanky debuff builds don't abuse them though.

I agree that poisons shouldn't be an exception and if immunity isn't working properly it needs fixed.

Kadoin · January 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, basically, all the glass-cannons who like to do sneaky quick death combos and *poof* disappear or dodge, dodge, dodge are now complaining because they're getting snared.

Nah, they are crying because ZOS nerfed magic builds so much that many are running frost staff now and realizing it is better in PvP than any other staff. If ZOS nerfs ice staff, then most mag builds with a brain will either go full damage or move to hybrid builds (truly broken...lol just wait and see

Hybrids have been broken OP since Summerset in PVP and its strange people have not yet realized this...)

Then we will have even more complaining that "players are too tanky" "everyone is a tank" "too many players do damage and tank" "mag is broken" etc. without realizing that these builds and tactics ultimately result from the nerfs that ZOS keep introducing.

It's a vicious cycle and one I find comical since I don't play much, and if I do, not PvP unless The Golden has something useful; good thing that's rare!

Emma_Overload · January 2019

"Perma-roots" only work against Magicka builds, Stam builds shrug off my frost roots all the time. Encase never even hits them.

Stamina needs to be nerfed across the board in a dozen different ways, not Frost staves, for crying out loud!

ak_pvp · January 2019

You are all heavily missing things. "I don't like roots so gib immunity" and vice versa will just throw you into another disliked meta, straight nerfing roots mans you get a game where fast builds are unstoppable again, and keeping them as is is no fun.

Look at both sides, completely stuck rooted and snared vs completely unrooted and unsnared is how it works right now. So, here is an idea to even it out.
Snares become major and minor buffs. 30 and 10% respectively and can stack. This instantly relieves those without methods to move and who are often snared 60/70% by limiting and separating it. These would be on less abilities, which would help reduce the prevalence and problems of this

Immunity abilities instead becomes a snare+root removal and a snare resistance, so it no longer grants immunity to either snares or roots, however does lower how much you can be snared by, i.e. 10s with 50% reduction, so you can be snared at max 20% with both minor/major snares on you. This means you have a good balance of counterplay to the speed, however they have a counterplay back that doesn't completely trump your snare for the duration.

Immunity to roots wouldn't just be removed, it'd instead be expanded upon. Removing roots in any way would grant a 4s immunity to them, but only after the roots are already applied, this means that rolling/removals become reactionary instead of precautionary. (No roll spam "haha can't root me") It it also means purge/rolling becomes better in that field for certain builds who don't have access to an ability that does it, side note purge from alliance war needs to be better.

For example, you are snared and rooted. You roll, gaining 4s immunity and avoiding the next attack, but you are still snared. You cast shuffle, you remove the root and the snare, getting 4s root immunity, you however didn't avoid the next attack, and it snared you. This snare and any for the next 10 or so seconds is 50% less effective.

ak_pvp · January 2019

jcm2606 wrote: »

How is it fun in any way to be constantly rooted and snared, basically being unable to move?

On the flip side,

How is it fun in any way to fight people who can barely fight back, because you're keeping them pinned from the over-abundance of roots and snares in your kit?

It isn't. Which is the problem. Root and snare spamming sucks the fun out of the game for both parties, leading to PVP just becoming a depressing battle of who can cripple each other the most.

The entire root and snare system needs to be taken back to the drawing boards. You should not be able to keep somebody pinned down 24/7, obliterating any chance of them fighting back, and actively sucking the fun out of the game for both you and your target. You should not be able to keep somebody at half movement speed from merely tagging them with a "spammable" like Rending Slashes, Jabs, Flying Blade.

Root immunity needs to be worked on, as the current counters just aren't effective enough for how braindead easy roots are to spam.

Sources of snares need to be reevaluated, snaring needs to be an explicit and conscious action on the part of the attacker, not implicitly applied by using their typical damage abilities.

On the flip flip side how is it fun to fight a character you can't hit on 50% of classes, that can run away from everything you have used, can ignore the one counter that is meant to keep speed in check completely by pressing a single ability, cause we know that was the reality last patch. Don't get me wrong, this isn't good either. I left the game cause I hated the mess they made of the game, it reverted to the snarepocalypse of a few years back cause they didn't balance and instead just chopped. Having the game completely tailored to one playstyle is bad.

Crixus8000 · January 2019

ak_pvp wrote: »

You are all heavily missing things. "I don't like roots so gib immunity" and vice versa will just throw you into another disliked meta, straight nerfing roots mans you get a game where fast builds are unstoppable again, and keeping them as is is no fun.

I don't remember any speed complaints before swift though. I'm not saying they didn't exist but I personally never heard someone complain about it. Swift was the main issue imo.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Look at both sides, completely stuck rooted and snared vs completely unrooted and unsnared is how it works right now. So, here is an idea to even it out.
Snares become major and minor buffs. 30 and 10% respectively and can stack. This instantly relieves those without methods to move and who are often snared 60/70% by limiting and separating it. These would be on less abilities, which would help reduce the prevalence and problems of this

Immunity abilities instead becomes a snare+root removal and a snare resistance, so it no longer grants immunity to either snares or roots, however does lower how much you can be snared by, i.e. 10s with 50% reduction, so you can be snared at max 20% with both minor/major snares on you. This means you have a good balance of counterplay to the speed, however they have a counterplay back that doesn't completely trump your snare for the duration.

Not sure if this would work. Speed is just needed. The game has way too much dmg that can't be countered by skill, too much oblivion, bleeds and procs when outnummbered. The only way to survive is using los, you need fast free movement for that, having even a 20% snare would mean death in most combat situations, having to cast your snare removal even more often that the very small 4 seconds it is now would leave 0 room for ever being able to do anything else.

Mojomonkeyman · January 2019

Crixus8000 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

You are all heavily missing things. "I don't like roots so gib immunity" and vice versa will just throw you into another disliked meta, straight nerfing roots mans you get a game where fast builds are unstoppable again, and keeping them as is is no fun.

I don't remember any speed complaints before swift though. I'm not saying they didn't exist but I personally never heard someone complain about it. Swift was the main issue imo.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Look at both sides, completely stuck rooted and snared vs completely unrooted and unsnared is how it works right now. So, here is an idea to even it out.
Snares become major and minor buffs. 30 and 10% respectively and can stack. This instantly relieves those without methods to move and who are often snared 60/70% by limiting and separating it. These would be on less abilities, which would help reduce the prevalence and problems of this

Immunity abilities instead becomes a snare+root removal and a snare resistance, so it no longer grants immunity to either snares or roots, however does lower how much you can be snared by, i.e. 10s with 50% reduction, so you can be snared at max 20% with both minor/major snares on you. This means you have a good balance of counterplay to the speed, however they have a counterplay back that doesn't completely trump your snare for the duration.

Not sure if this would work. Speed is just needed. The game has way too much dmg that can't be countered by skill, too much oblivion, bleeds and procs when outnummbered. The only way to survive is using los, you need fast free movement for that, having even a 20% snare would mean death in most combat situations, having to cast your snare removal even more often that the very small 4 seconds it is now would leave 0 room for ever being able to do anything else.

I have played both sides - stam sorc and mag warden. Old FM was imo the problem, not swift (swift made that more obvious than pre-swift though). It was close to impossible to finish off any decent stam player who didn't want to die with an effortless 100% uptime on soft cc immunity. For mag wardens mainly, but also difficult for magplars and mag dks. I highly recommend trying out "the other side" to understand its challenges.

I think you are a decent stam player, but when I read your comments I feel you just dont understand how imbalanced old FM really was when we have slow builds in the game that actually rely on being able to pin their opposition down (those builds want to solo 1vX as well which can be rather difficult when people FM at will and simply walk away from them despite being outplayed). Believe me it's just as frustrating to see some stamsorc nerd go dodge-fm-bol-dd on 3% HP and theres nothing you can do about it...

_Ahala_ · January 2019

ak_pvp wrote: »

Immunity abilities instead becomes a snare+root removal and a snare resistance, so it no longer grants immunity to either snares or roots, however does lower how much you can be snared by, i.e. 10s with 50% reduction, so you can be snared at max 20% with both minor/major snares on you. This means you have a good balance of counterplay to the speed, however they have a counterplay back that doesn't completely trump your snare for the duration.

I really wish snare reduction was additive like your suggestion... currently snare reduction sources such as grace and icy aura reduce snares multiplicatively which is just garbage... 35% snare reduction? Wonderful, you can now reduced that 40% rending slashes snare to a 28% snare... ugh

Crixus8000 · January 2019

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

You are all heavily missing things. "I don't like roots so gib immunity" and vice versa will just throw you into another disliked meta, straight nerfing roots mans you get a game where fast builds are unstoppable again, and keeping them as is is no fun.

I don't remember any speed complaints before swift though. I'm not saying they didn't exist but I personally never heard someone complain about it. Swift was the main issue imo.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Look at both sides, completely stuck rooted and snared vs completely unrooted and unsnared is how it works right now. So, here is an idea to even it out.
Snares become major and minor buffs. 30 and 10% respectively and can stack. This instantly relieves those without methods to move and who are often snared 60/70% by limiting and separating it. These would be on less abilities, which would help reduce the prevalence and problems of this

Immunity abilities instead becomes a snare+root removal and a snare resistance, so it no longer grants immunity to either snares or roots, however does lower how much you can be snared by, i.e. 10s with 50% reduction, so you can be snared at max 20% with both minor/major snares on you. This means you have a good balance of counterplay to the speed, however they have a counterplay back that doesn't completely trump your snare for the duration.

Not sure if this would work. Speed is just needed. The game has way too much dmg that can't be countered by skill, too much oblivion, bleeds and procs when outnummbered. The only way to survive is using los, you need fast free movement for that, having even a 20% snare would mean death in most combat situations, having to cast your snare removal even more often that the very small 4 seconds it is now would leave 0 room for ever being able to do anything else.

I have played both sides - stam sorc and mag warden. Old FM was imo the problem, not swift (swift made that more obvious than pre-swift though). It was close to impossible to finish off any decent stam player who didn't want to die with an effortless 100% uptime on soft cc immunity. For mag wardens mainly, but also difficult for magplars and mag dks. I highly recommend trying out "the other side" to understand its challenges.

I think you are a decent stam player, but when I read your comments I feel you just dont understand how imbalanced old FM really was when we have slow builds in the game that actually rely on being able to pin their opposition down (those builds want to solo 1vX as well which can be rather difficult when people FM at will and simply walk away from them despite being outplayed). Believe me it's just as frustrating to see some stamsorc nerd go dodge-fm-bol-dd on 3% HP and theres nothing you can do about it...

It seems so hard to balance with how the game currently is. I hate the game currently with how snares work, but I can understand what your saying and know that speed is unfair towards melee magicka chars. I expereinced how annoying speed can be during the swift meta where I couldn't even land a single hit on a stamden, by time my dizzy swing was half way through the animation he was already out of range every time, that's not balanced, but I don't think being perma snared is either. I would like to see how the game would work with magicka having more mobility options so snares wasn't needed maybe. I just don't see why they can't balance the classes more, I have never played a game where you needed to constantly reduce the enemies speed to hit them, then constantly remove a debuff in order to even move, it makes combat boring.

I also think speed wouldn't be as needed if the game wasn't filled with lag, countless gamebreaking bugs and so many overpowered things that have 0 realistic counters like bleeds, oblivion and proc sets. If combat was fully based on skill then you could stay in the fight longer and not need to hide behined walls kiting to avoid the damage you can't do anything else about. Then I would be fine being slower, but currently being slow when outnumbered just means death when you have proc sets that can do over 20k damage, bleeds and oblivion ignoring all your resistance and blocks, snipes hitting from 40m away dealing over 10k damage and defiling you ect

technohic · January 2019

I would like if there were as many abilities that had root and snare removal as a secondary to their effect as there is snares and roots just applied to abilities as an extra.

heng14rwb17_ESO · January 2019

GO CLOAK OR GO ROOT !