There's not enough PvP players. Not the other way around.

Nyladreas · January 2019

Recently read about assumed ZOS's position on pulling resources from PvP servers "because there aren't that many people interested in PvP"...

That's BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN GIVING A SINGLE FLYING F ABOUT OUR CRIES FOR FIXING THE PERFORMANCE FOR OVER 5 YEARS NOW.

Your game has always been advertised mainly for PvP in the past. UNTIL IT STARTED TO DIE CAUSE PEOPLE GAVE UP ON YOUR INCOMPETENCE.

There have been TONS AND TONS OF PLAYERS interested in PvP over the years. Though not everyone is a masochistic maniac like us who'd be able to bear the pain that is your performance.

I can't bloody decide whether you think we're so effing naive or whether you're just that stupid...

And it's sad [edit] too, cause ESO has one of the best PVP DESIGNS that I'VE EVER PLAYED IN ANY MMO.

What a joke... I wish you'd actually try and communicate instead of the radio silence and lame news articles we got.

Dottzgaming · January 2019

Do you have a link to where they said that?

sharquez · January 2019

You are aware you are making yourself look like a lunatic in public with no context right?

Nyladreas · January 2019

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Do you have a link to where they said that?

No I don't, this came from a private source and as such I won't disclose it further. This can be logically observed too.

Hasnt anyone noticed how a decrease in performance has been occurring gradually over the time? In their perspective, there is too little to gain from PVP and too liPvP players to bother with them. Look at the way they handle anything pvp related in particular.

Salvas_Aren · January 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Do you have a link to where they said that?

No I don't, this came from a private source. And can be logically observed too.

Hasnt anyone noticed how a decrease in performance has been occurring gradually over the time? In their perspective, there are too little PvP players. Look at the way they handle anything pvp related in particular.

Tbh I did not notice any decrease in PvP performance because the poor PvP performance is the reason why I don't PvP.

Nyladreas · January 2019

sharquez wrote: »

You are aware you are making yourself look like a lunatic in public with no context right?

Perhaps, it's not like I have any F's left to give though.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2019

sharquez wrote: »

You are aware you are making yourself look like a lunatic in public with no context right?

The context is a lot of people have been going into PvP performance threads and saying something along the lines of what OP is talking about. Here is an example.

Mujuro wrote: »

I believe ZOS reduced the resources for Cyrodiil instances. This has been occurring gradually now for some time. In their view, there are too few PvPers. This is also why they've not even fixed something as simple as campaign rewards (still giving old sets).

This is what OP is frustrated about because its classic marketing think. Ignore a part of the business until it atrophies, then show the management that people aren't using that part of your business.

The tail wags the dog.

VaranisArano · January 2019

Quite interested in a link as well, unless this is an assumption about their intentions.

But I also agree that if the PVP population is dropping, its because of a long-term failure to address lag and performance issues, coupled with a lack of communication about the plan for fixes. For example, when a fix for FPS like typing your own name into the Guild tab requires a player to bring it to ZOS' attention, or new bugs appear every update like siege equipment not working with poisons, or known bugs are allowed to go Live like rapid manuevers dismounting people...

And if we add in Battlegrounds, we've got queue bugs, chaos ball exploits, and an iffy MMR...

Yeah, its pretty easy to lose hope in ZOS' willingness or ability to fix PVP.

Which is a crying shame. I love large scale combat in Cyrodiil where armies can clash over objectives to win campaigns, and I wish that ESO' performance better supported its vision.

valeriiya · January 2019

I'm watching @ZOS_GinaBruno respond to almost every other thread on the first page, except the PvP ones, good job ZO$

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.

Everstorm · January 2019

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Do you have a link to where they said that?

No I don't, this came from a private source. And can be logically observed too.

Hasnt anyone noticed how a decrease in performance has been occurring gradually over the time? In their perspective, there are too little PvP players. Look at the way they handle anything pvp related in particular.

Tbh I did not notice any decrease in PvP performance because the poor PvP performance is the reason why I don't PvP.

I'm not much into pvp, but I wanted vigor for my stamblade so I pulled myself together and went into Cyrodiil. I sucked, of course, but I had more fun than I thought I would. Except for the 5 minute random loading screens, that actually turned me off from pushing on to get caltrops for a long time. Bad performance sucked the fun out of it, shame really.

yodased · January 2019

You are pulling from 5 years ago if you are claiming the game's advertising was focused on AvAvA.

The concept of the original game was end game as pvp, but that shifted with 1.6 removing dynamic ult gen and mercenaries then with 2.3/2.4 lighing update that put sanity checks on the server.

Then you have the zazeer incident that irrefutably proved that cheating was not only possible, it was prevelent.

Fast forward to removal of forward camps and imperial city being pve within and incorporating pvp and starting the gankfest base farming that drove a lot of people away.

Then they shift into pve focus, introduce undaunted dailies, lock dungeon gear to bop and introduce proc damage sets, which are very unbalanced while also overbuffing templars so we have beam proc 9000. More players leave.

Bring it into adding the towns to try and bring people away from the ring, but that just became more places to farm for small man.

Then we get to the point where pvp is stale a.f. and the same players keep exploiting the systems that are unbalanced, driving more players away.

Amongst this cluster you also have emperors exploiting into keeps and farming people, groups balling up 20 deep and running over people with other players backcapping the entire map because they play from a different part of the world when the population is super low.

The blame for pvp being the ignored step child is equally placed on both ZOS and the players. There is no way to seperate it out, players have been strait up cheating and exploiting from day 1, ZOS has basically let them and now we are where we are.

Flipityflu · January 2019

valeriiya wrote: »

I'm watching @ZOS_GinaBruno respond to almost every other thread on the first page, except the PvP ones, good job ZO$

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.

Or maybe they don't respond to to a thread that starts with an f-bomb.

Salvas_Aren · January 2019

yodased wrote: »

The blame for pvp being the ignored step child is equally placed on both ZOS and the players. There is no way to seperate it out, players have been strait up cheating and exploiting from day 1, ZOS has basically let them and now we are where we are.

Tbh I don't consider it appropriate to blame cheating of a mere percentage on all players equally.

Fact is, on the players' side there are the ones that stick to the rules and the ones who cheat. On the providers' side you have Zeni who does not fix things and ... well, that's it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2019

sharquez wrote: »

You are aware you are making yourself look like a lunatic in public with no context right?

He’s still right though.

Odovacar · January 2019

I wonder how many "gamemasters" actually play in Cyrodiil either with their Zeni or private accounts? I'm thinking not too many TBH.

yodased · January 2019

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The blame for pvp being the ignored step child is equally placed on both ZOS and the players. There is no way to seperate it out, players have been strait up cheating and exploiting from day 1, ZOS has basically let them and now we are where we are.

Tbh I don't consider it appropriate to blame cheating of a mere percentage on all players equally.

Fact is, on the players' side there are the ones that stick to the rules and the ones who cheat. On the providers' side you have Zeni who does not fix things and ... well, that's it.

Well they have tried several things to "fix" the problem, I just don't have actual information on what is going on and where they are in the fix schedule or if they even know why things happen.

People cheating and exploiting in this game is a certain % sure, but if you include exploiting in the cheating world you are then increasing the % by an order of magnitude.

You can't say they haven't been trying to fix PvP as much as I can't claim I have any idea of the percentage of people who are active cheaters and the percentage of players who are simple exploiters.

The blame is not one sided is the point I am trying to make, regardless of who owns more fault %.

Girl_Number8 · January 2019

I agree with OP. Cyro has gone through a lot of changes and the performance is horrible. I think that all the constant nerfs have pushed a lot of players away, as well. I still enjoy PvP but nerfmire did a number.

MajBludd · January 2019

Yes, please link.

Savos_Saren · January 2019

Odovacar wrote: »

I wonder how many "gamemasters" actually play in Cyrodiil either with their Zeni or private accounts? I'm thinking not too many TBH.

When's the last time you've seen a "Gamemaster" actually in the game? I remember when ESO first came out- there was a quest in Grahtwood where you had to turn into a monkey to move around. The quest was bugged- so a Gamemaster had to help us through it. That was 2014 and that was also the last time I've ever seen a Gamemaster. Now, it's "No ETA on a fix..."

It still stings every time I see the loading screen that says "Don't be fooled by imposters. Gamemasters will have a 'Z' by their name."

max_only · January 2019

I’m not convinced that pvp was ever the main draw for an Elder Scrolls game. Companies like Bethesda and BioWare have IPs that appeal to the classic rpg “epic story” solo player, not player killers.

qbit · January 2019

Am I still muted? It's a miracle if I'm not and I thought my lonely island reference regarding crown crates was funny. I said nothing innapropriate. That's said, did performance really go downhill around the time Amazon patched their VM hosts for Spectre and Meltdown (i think that's what they were called). The fix for this was an almost guaranteed 10 to 50 percent performance decrease. At my previous job, we made the client signoff on the patches to microcode etc because of this. And that they don't run untrusted VMs. And the thing is mitigated at other levels. You don't need the microcode fix if you're guaranteed to be running trusted VMs. Maybe I'm totally wrong here. I don't specialize in security. I'm an MCSE guy. Perhaps ZOS has not realized they need to double their compute footprint after these things were patched at amazon, azure, etc. Depending on the type of load, the performance hit can be huge.

idk · January 2019

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Do you have a link to where they said that?

It is not the first time someone falsely, or mistakenly, claimed this game was billed as a PvP game. I can only imagine that it is a few people who saw Zos mention PvP and took that to mean this is a PvP game.

Salvas_Aren · January 2019

idk wrote: »

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Do you have a link to where they said that?

It is not the first time someone falsely, or mistakenly, claimed this game was billed as a PvP game. I can only imagine that it is a few people who saw Zos mention PvP and took that to mean this is a PvP game.

At least the first cinematic trailers were all about Cyro.

BigBragg · January 2019

Flipityflu wrote: »

valeriiya wrote: »

I'm watching @ZOS_GinaBruno respond to almost every other thread on the first page, except the PvP ones, good job ZO$

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.

Or maybe they don't respond to to a thread that starts with an f-bomb.

Doubt that's it at all. Gina can use profanities as good, or better than any sailor.

They probably ignore the topic because they have nothing noteworthy to say, or at least anything that the players would want to hear.

After years of us complaining about the same performance issues, that also can plague trails, there has been no change or improvement discernable on our end. So the lack the means or will to do anything about it.

Zer0oo · January 2019

If you have not noticed but the whole gaming industry became about milking the players and not about great content. ZOS has shown it, by focusing more and more on crownstore and crown crates while neglecting quite a lot of other things. They chose to get the most money and neglect their player's happiness.

ZOS is not alone with it. Just look at blizzard, bethesda with fallout 76, bungie with destiny, EA ...

fast money > players

Odovacar · January 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

I wonder how many "gamemasters" actually play in Cyrodiil either with their Zeni or private accounts? I'm thinking not too many TBH.

When's the last time you've seen a "Gamemaster" actually in the game? I remember when ESO first came out- there was a quest in Grahtwood where you had to turn into a monkey to move around. The quest was bugged- so a Gamemaster had to help us through it. That was 2014 and that was also the last time I've ever seen a Gamemaster. Now, it's "No ETA on a fix..."

It still stings every time I see the loading screen that says "Don't be fooled by imposters. Gamemasters will have a 'Z' by their name."

I've seen two in my time and only in Alik'ir when PS4 has an issue with rubberbanders. That was over 2 1/2 years ago. I think many play on private accounts and I don't blame them either. Could you imagine being an art designer or something and load in with your Z... it would be mass bombardment... they would be like I just design the art please stop ahhhhhh

VaranisArano · January 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

I wonder how many "gamemasters" actually play in Cyrodiil either with their Zeni or private accounts? I'm thinking not too many TBH.

When's the last time you've seen a "Gamemaster" actually in the game? I remember when ESO first came out- there was a quest in Grahtwood where you had to turn into a monkey to move around. The quest was bugged- so a Gamemaster had to help us through it. That was 2014 and that was also the last time I've ever seen a Gamemaster. Now, it's "No ETA on a fix..."

It still stings every time I see the loading screen that says "Don't be fooled by imposters. Gamemasters will have a 'Z' by their name."

Last time I saw a Gamemaster on PC/NA (and yes, I'm a very small sample size, LOL) was October 2017 and he was deleting the bot trains killing harpies in Rivenspire.

Defilted · January 2019

There are PVP issues for sure but I really enjoy PVP in Shor XBOX/NA. Plenty of people when I am playing. I would like to know but never will the difference in player count between PC/XBOX/PS.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2019

Zer0oo wrote: »

If you have not noticed but the whole gaming industry became about milking the players and not about great content. ZOS has shown it, by focusing more and more on crownstore and crown crates while neglecting quite a lot of other things. They chose to get the most money and neglect their player's happiness.

ZOS is not alone with it. Just look at blizzard, bethesda with fallout 76, bungie with destiny, EA ...

fast money > players

Truth

Personally I play ESO PVP because I like the concept of 100 people all fighting at once Bravehart style. On XBox it’s my only option for that. I probably would have bought ESO regardless but without Cyrodiil I would have stopped playing after 90 days instead of continuing a $15 a month subscription for the better part of 5 years.

idk · January 2019

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Do you have a link to where they said that?

It is not the first time someone falsely, or mistakenly, claimed this game was billed as a PvP game. I can only imagine that it is a few people who saw Zos mention PvP and took that to mean this is a PvP game.

At least the first cinematic trailers were all about Cyro.

Not about PvP. If you disagree then link those trailers.

Are you thinking about this one? Cause I can see how someone might mistake that for PvP if they never saw any footage from this game. Clearly it is not PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuAf01JxctM

dotme · January 2019

Worth a watch (skip to 7:48)

https://youtu.be/YlEipFtHw7o?t=468

Between the loadscreens, in-combat for days, and lag, Cyrodiil is not where it should be almost 5 years on. Participation has fallen, and so has performance. You'd think with fewer players, the game would be more responsive. But it isn't.