Are there really only a few usable sets?

Nolic1 · December 2018

See many forget a build is not just the sets themself but its the dynamic of the group that makes it work and that is why the sets used in the meta in the way they do work so well but even they change up builds and such to face different mechanics in game do to the group dynamic that the meta is made up of.

Also the meta can be copied into different ways like a one stam dps running Nightmothers gaze for major fracture so your tank could run an ice tank or another type of tank that might not have the tools for that to be applied does you groups dps go down yes but not enough that it does not work. As I said there are many options in the game that can be used its the meta that has shown the best math results that is why it is a proven group dynamic and there are many group dynamics that work.

And there for many of the sets in the game can be used at end game to get the gear to play at the meta level but the meta is not a required playstyle its an option that the player has to decide they want to play. Cause if you force it then players are more likely to leave the game then to be in a lighter sense of the term forced into something they do not enjoy.

Also @Liofa The Ashen Grip set is a great set for new players to get to help with there DPS till they get something better but it works best on a Stam dark elf DK running vipers Ashen Grip and krahgs for a starter set up that will help them get into harder content and if they like it then they can continue to use it if there group allows unless they play with a Meta group.

hedna123b14_ESO · December 2018

[removed quote]

1. If players arent passing the dps checks your brought up before it isnt the gear's fault, it is the player's.
2. I agree that you can have build diversity at any level of this game, however not for when it comes to competitive PvE. Competitive implies that you try to outdo the other players in that same field. ZoS clearly made the game with a focus on that aspect, otherwise why have Leaderboards? If completion was the goal why are there rankings? Rankings are in place so that the groups with the most optimized gear/player combinations can be ahead of others. So yes while diversity is very real in the game, when people mention the lack of said diversity it is in relation to endgame competitive PvE. That specific aspect of the game definitely does have a huge lack of diversity, but that is not the fault of the players, it is the fault of the combat team.

Tholian1 · December 2018

Starlock wrote: »

Given folks have different gamelay goals and priorities - as well as different play styles - there are tons of good sets to accomodate thtat. The bigger issue is accessibility of sets, which is hamstrung because of dumb mechanics that ‘have to’ exist in MMOs.

I have to agree with this. Good luck to any player trying to combine 2 dungeon sets. The grind for a complete set of weapons for a dungeon set is ridiculous. I don’t understand why a player must become completely burned out running a dungeon to get the weapons they desire.

T3hasiangod · December 2018

Nolic1 wrote: »

Ok I will give my thoughts on this and have to Quote @T3hasiangod on his video.

https://youtu.be/HLdQ3qaxmEM

See I am not a meta player not because it does not work or shows the best results its because it does not offer me the build structure I enjoy or if you will the playstyle.

META by its true meaning is this.

1. Meta means about the thing itself. It's seeing the thing from a higher perspective instead of from within the thing, like being self-aware.

2. A term used in mmo meaning the Most Effective Tactic Available. It's basically what works in a game regardless of what you wish would work.

Now what does this mean Most Effective Tactic Available. Well it is a combination of class, race, skills, GEAR, traits, mundus and cp broken up into ether 4 or 12 different builds creating a group dynamic that offers the best results in a certain activity and that is why ESO meta is so singular is there are no other tools in the game that offer a better option in the end results. Now its not saying the tools they used can not be used other ways to get the same setup but the end math results do not fair the same.

So in truth the gear you need to reach end game to get that trial gear works for that and more its just that it does not show the same results math wise to equal the meta.

Also you can not use PvP in Cyrodill as an option cause the group dynamic there is so open ended. Battle grounds could have a Meta but it will change alot do to the inclusion of new sets and play styles that the game has to offer you can not have a singular meta.

Also I never asked this of you @T3hasiangod but could you do a sword and shield dps build with a rotation for those out there that would like that build type I ask cause I am not as skilled at rotations as you are.

P.S. This does not mean agree the meta is the only option far from it but I understand and know why its used.

Yes, I can do a 1H + Shield DPS build. It probably won't be pulling great numbers, but I wager I can get at least 30k with it maybe? It's hard to say since 1H + Shield has no DoT weapon abilities. Guess I'll just have to #relequencarry

Nolic1 · December 2018

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Yes, I can do a 1H + Shield DPS build. It probably won't be pulling great numbers, but I wager I can get at least 30k with it maybe? It's hard to say since 1H + Shield has no DoT weapon abilities. Guess I'll just have to #relequencarry

LOL I figured it would be a #relenquencarry it seems to be the set that does alot of carrying in the game.

Actually_Goku · December 2018

Contrary to gaming in general, and somewhat popular belief in these forums, the PVE community in ESO is a lot more elitist than the PVP community of the game. At least, on XB1 NA, it is.

I’ve gone from the EU server at max CP to the NA one, and been kicked from vet dungeons as a CP650+ tank 4 or 5 times the last week alone, which goes without saying as ridiculous. Especially when some of the time it’s been in group finder

I spend the bulk of my time in Cyrodiil and BG’s, and very rarely will people boot newer players - on the contrary, most people seem to be happy to have the new players in groups and show them the ropes. At least in my experience, people are unwilling to even attempt to even ask people of their experience level, let alone help them. There is of course, exceptions to the rule:

zaria · December 2018

[removed quote]
30% is there the gear start getting more important than player skill. This for the player base you run into in vet pugs.
Who I assume has somewhat relevant gear.

Yes you might run into some lame ducks with all point into health and ebon while mostly spaming snipe but has an healing staff back bar to cancel out your mutagen but they are very rare.

Sergykid · December 2018

stop daydreaming with "any set is good if u work well around it" no it's not true, some sets whatever playstyle u use can't surpass 15k dps while good sets will get u over 40k.

and no, not any content is viable with 15k dps

hedna123b14_ESO · December 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

stop daydreaming with "any set is good if u work well around it" no it's not true, some sets whatever playstyle u use can't surpass 15k dps while good sets will get u over 40k.

and no, not any content is viable with 15k dps

Give me a class and sets you want me to use I'd love to do a video:)

D0PAMINE · December 2018

Im not so picky with my sets, as long as theyre effective at decent damage/heals/support, however, im extremely picky with my skills. I always use Vigor on my Stamina characters, and I try for easy rotations, but im having a MASSIVE issue with accidental double casting. Endless Hail always double casts for me whether ani canceled or not, as does Ash Cloud, and some others. The guild roster trick helps.

Tasear · December 2018

[removed quote]

They are touching up on old though mind you it's pvp sets. Also not a single hasn't dominanted end game but competive end game. The issues are different between too sets of groups.

On the note about gear diversity via design. I feel like this is because in ESO has much as I would like to disagree the solo experience is greater then team or group experience for most players in game. Now coming back on point, so how would we like some new sets being designned? Would would add diversity for those who say it doesn't exist?

DocFrost72 · December 2018

There are certainly sets that defy their own logic. Two examples:

Ashen grip is a stamina dps oriented set that uses a 5 piece damage base that scales off of magic damage. Your stamina specced character loses out in the buffs from cp and gear on the five piece.

Vampire's kiss seems like a tank set from its 2-4 piece bonuses, but the fifth one requires you to get a killing blow for a weak hot. The hot gets even weaker when you realize, proportionally, it's less than 1% of a tank's health every second. In pvp, this heal would be even more laughable (especially compared to sets like 7th legion).

I chalk it up to the original crafted and drop sets being made in a totally different environment than we play in now, coupled with the arms race of each new patch trying to provide unique or interesting set concepts.

Juju_beans · December 2018

DocFrost72 wrote: »

There are certainly sets that defy their own logic. Two examples:

Ashen grip is a stamina dps oriented set that uses a 5 piece damage base that scales off of magic damage. Your stamina specced character loses out in the buffs from cp and gear on the five piece.

Vampire's kiss seems like a tank set from its 2-4 piece bonuses, but the fifth one requires you to get a killing blow for a weak hot. The hot gets even weaker when you realize, proportionally, it's less than 1% of a tank's health every second. In pvp, this heal would be even more laughable (especially compared to sets like 7th legion).

I chalk it up to the original crafted and drop sets being made in a totally different environment than we play in now, coupled with the arms race of each new patch trying to provide unique or interesting set concepts.

Ashen Grip has a place though. It's a great set for a brand new player just getting started and learning crafting.
That was the first set I made as a brand new player when I hit level 10. At only 2 traits I was able to make the full 5 piece set because the research at that level is short and sweet.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · December 2018

That’s a ton of pages and words for an argument that should be summed up with “99.99% of the game can be done in almost any gear by the right player”.

I mean, maybe you won’t be the OMGWERLDBESTBRAHHHHH but you should be able to complete it in a reasonable timeframe.

As for PVP ... your group size, rotation, situational awareness, and defensive ability matter much more than any specific set of gear. Sure, some are a bit more powerful than others but in the right hands an odd build can be really dangerous.

If I have my guy equipped to be a PVP bubble tosser it really doesn’t matter how powerful my gear is because the spell isn’t actually doing any damage but is highly useful.

Tigerseye · December 2018

Everstorm wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

For pve dps there always are the one true "bis" that mathematically the best with optimal rotation for each spec.

Kinda same for pve tanking & healing for support builds if wanna make min/max for dps for the group.

BUT, when one goes to pvp.. then its FULL of different choices and almost anything can be "usable" in right builds. Well, same for fun builds at pve, but far too many taking seriously even like random normals.

Cavedog wrote: »

In PvP it's absolutely true. There are maybe five magic and five stam sets worth running in PvP......

In PvE you can make all kinds of things work.

With that said, a lot of the fun of the game in my opinion is figuring out what works good for what you are trying to do. It's fun to make new builds and try new things. But I think those of us who try lots of different sets, and generally chase the alleged new BiS sets, we almost always go back to the same old sets for PvP. Most of the high performers in PvP are wearing sets they got two or more years ago, and are still running willpower or agility sets a lot of the time.

Gotta love two completely opposite answers to the same question.

Says it all about this game, frankly.

idk · December 2018

[removed quote]

In reality this is the answer. If Zos wanted to address this there would be an easy test for them.

1. Pull data on frequency of use for each set over a given period of time.
2. Based on that data determine a low end of that usage and tag those sets as under performing. Maybe the bottom 25%.

Something like that would be a logical approach as it is irrelevant if the set has a high use in vet trials or is often used in PvP. The player base is much more diverse than that.

Of course, with how many sets we have and how many Zos adds each year is this an issue Zos , or anyone, should spend time on? There are plenty of good sets. Even with the sets that have been posted in the forums as bad sets are a small fraction of what we have available. Since Zos will be added sets to the game regardless I would rather their efforts go to something more worthwhile than the worst 25% in the game.

karekiz · December 2018

There is generally one BIS, with some variance.

Saying that lets be honest 99% of this forums. Most players probably won't ever hit that ceiling anyway so the difference between BIS/non BIS won't matter a huge issue <assuming player is at least decent enough to come up with sets the function and work for the role>.

The amount of times I have randomed into groups with Reliquen + AY / Spell strat + Sirioria and they do max 15-20K DPS on a tank and spank classic vet is quite high.

Kikke · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Yes, if you care about not pulling the group down by using something inferior. If not playing with group, use Ashen Grip, who cares ^^

Wow, you definitely fit the elitist requirement for class rep.

This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^

On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.

There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.

Tasear wrote: »

That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.

That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.

It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.

The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.

This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.

"What I say is the meta"

I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."

Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. I don't feel their statement adds any actual value because they often just ignore other points of view and insult others... or make bets. I am not the only one feeling this way either just look in the thread. Different points of view don't matter to liofa and they never have, so yeah I took a jab, cause I am tired of them walking on my threads and taking jabs first. There is no suger coating , liofa is a elitist. This is freedom of speech when I say that and other players have tagged reps in nastier things. If I deserved to be flagged for that fine, but yeah liofa lets never talk to each other cause we don't get along at all.

Fixed some spelling for you:)

report yourself for me too. Doesn't really add to conversation, but says something about your own character.

What do you mean? I have nothing but love for you:) You are the Donald Trump of ESO:)

Doesn't feel like, sounds like more of a pun to that latest video. But I created this thread with sincere intentions to talk about a concept and how different people feel...just got a little touchy.

Nothing sincere here. You are asking a question that monstly only the elite complains about, then you go and bash the elites when they respond.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

Sylvermynx · December 2018

Hoo boy. You know what really gets me going? The fact that you can spend 49 levels doing fun quests, crafting, using set pieces that you find in overland....

And you hit level 50 - where NOTHING works any more the way it has for the previous 49 levels.

You know.... I cut my teeth on TES, beginning with Arena. I'm waiting out the rest of my life (probably) for TES VI. I thought ESO would be a good filler.... and yeah, it is in some ways. But damn. What on earth were these devs thinking?

Seriously people. Any other game you play (including MMOs), you learn how to play as you go along. So when you get to max level whatever that is, you have some sort of clue, and you understand the gear system - how to get max level gear, where to get it, what you can do if you can't get it....

This game.... Nope. NOTHING you learn in 49 levels makes any sense at all as soon as you hit 50. Oh sure - you have your rotations down.... but.... the gear you've come to love is now.... virtually useless. Oh, and regarding rotations etc. - hello? I've had a tankden for close to 50 levels, maxing health. But NOW, I'm supposed to go with either stam or mag? Why is that? That's silly - why can't she just continue to stack health, but add enough stam and mag to get reasonable DPS so she can still solo? I don't do group content period. I refuse - no one is going to want to deal with 2k ms lag, I'm not foisting that off on anyone....

This is the single strangest game I've EVER played.

DocFrost72 · December 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

There are certainly sets that defy their own logic. Two examples:

Ashen grip is a stamina dps oriented set that uses a 5 piece damage base that scales off of magic damage. Your stamina specced character loses out in the buffs from cp and gear on the five piece.

Vampire's kiss seems like a tank set from its 2-4 piece bonuses, but the fifth one requires you to get a killing blow for a weak hot. The hot gets even weaker when you realize, proportionally, it's less than 1% of a tank's health every second. In pvp, this heal would be even more laughable (especially compared to sets like 7th legion).

I chalk it up to the original crafted and drop sets being made in a totally different environment than we play in now, coupled with the arms race of each new patch trying to provide unique or interesting set concepts.

Ashen Grip has a place though. It's a great set for a brand new player just getting started and learning crafting.
That was the first set I made as a brand new player when I hit level 10. At only 2 traits I was able to make the full 5 piece set because the research at that level is short and sweet.

Im glad you found use for that set. It still doesn't change the fact that the 5 piece bonus on that set contradicts the vision of the other three bonuses, penalizing most players.

Though I think at that point we'd be arguing two entirely different positions.

Tasear · December 2018

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

There are certainly sets that defy their own logic. Two examples:

Ashen grip is a stamina dps oriented set that uses a 5 piece damage base that scales off of magic damage. Your stamina specced character loses out in the buffs from cp and gear on the five piece.

Vampire's kiss seems like a tank set from its 2-4 piece bonuses, but the fifth one requires you to get a killing blow for a weak hot. The hot gets even weaker when you realize, proportionally, it's less than 1% of a tank's health every second. In pvp, this heal would be even more laughable (especially compared to sets like 7th legion).

I chalk it up to the original crafted and drop sets being made in a totally different environment than we play in now, coupled with the arms race of each new patch trying to provide unique or interesting set concepts.

Ashen Grip has a place though. It's a great set for a brand new player just getting started and learning crafting.
That was the first set I made as a brand new player when I hit level 10. At only 2 traits I was able to make the full 5 piece set because the research at that level is short and sweet.

Im glad you found use for that set. It still doesn't change the fact that the 5 piece bonus on that set contradicts the vision of the other three bonuses, penalizing most players.

Though I think at that point we'd be arguing two entirely different positions.

Getting back on topic some sets maybe got outdated because of vision of gameplay didn't appeal to right audience or too niche.

Also new direction are some sets over nerfed as the term is used?

Royaji · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Hoo boy. You know what really gets me going? The fact that you can spend 49 levels doing fun quests, crafting, using set pieces that you find in overland....

And you hit level 50 - where NOTHING works any more the way it has for the previous 49 levels.

You know.... I cut my teeth on TES, beginning with Arena. I'm waiting out the rest of my life (probably) for TES VI. I thought ESO would be a good filler.... and yeah, it is in some ways. But damn. What on earth were these devs thinking?

Seriously people. Any other game you play (including MMOs), you learn how to play as you go along. So when you get to max level whatever that is, you have some sort of clue, and you understand the gear system - how to get max level gear, where to get it, what you can do if you can't get it....

This game.... Nope. NOTHING you learn in 49 levels makes any sense at all as soon as you hit 50. Oh sure - you have your rotations down.... but.... the gear you've come to love is now.... virtually useless. Oh, and regarding rotations etc. - hello? I've had a tankden for close to 50 levels, maxing health. But NOW, I'm supposed to go with either stam or mag? Why is that? That's silly - why can't she just continue to stack health, but add enough stam and mag to get reasonable DPS so she can still solo? I don't do group content period. I refuse - no one is going to want to deal with 2k ms lag, I'm not foisting that off on anyone....

This is the single strangest game I've EVER played.

All of these questions are reasonable but the answer is very simple. ESO is a MMO set in Elder Scrolls universe. It is not an Elder Scrolls game that is a MMO. Things you find so strange are completely mundane for someone with MMO background. ESO might be a bit more obscure than others because it tries to keep all the MMO stuff under the rug until your average "I'm here for Elders Scrolls!" player completes all the quests, gets bored and leaves. But there are numerous games where the rift between new player and end-game has to be passed through interacting with other players or guides and not just through gameplay means.

ESO was always a very tricky project. Combining two very different audiences in one game is a big task. We, players, do not need to make it harder for developers. Just stick to like minded people and don't through a fit every time someone with a different mindset disagrees or even does not want to play with you.

Tasear · December 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Hoo boy. You know what really gets me going? The fact that you can spend 49 levels doing fun quests, crafting, using set pieces that you find in overland....

And you hit level 50 - where NOTHING works any more the way it has for the previous 49 levels.

You know.... I cut my teeth on TES, beginning with Arena. I'm waiting out the rest of my life (probably) for TES VI. I thought ESO would be a good filler.... and yeah, it is in some ways. But damn. What on earth were these devs thinking?

Seriously people. Any other game you play (including MMOs), you learn how to play as you go along. So when you get to max level whatever that is, you have some sort of clue, and you understand the gear system - how to get max level gear, where to get it, what you can do if you can't get it....

This game.... Nope. NOTHING you learn in 49 levels makes any sense at all as soon as you hit 50. Oh sure - you have your rotations down.... but.... the gear you've come to love is now.... virtually useless. Oh, and regarding rotations etc. - hello? I've had a tankden for close to 50 levels, maxing health. But NOW, I'm supposed to go with either stam or mag? Why is that? That's silly - why can't she just continue to stack health, but add enough stam and mag to get reasonable DPS so she can still solo? I don't do group content period. I refuse - no one is going to want to deal with 2k ms lag, I'm not foisting that off on anyone....

This is the single strangest game I've EVER played.

All of these questions are reasonable but the answer is very simple. ESO is a MMO set in Elder Scrolls universe. It is not an Elder Scrolls game that is a MMO. Things you find so strange are completely mundane for someone with MMO background. ESO might be a bit more obscure than others because it tries to keep all the MMO stuff under the rug until your average "I'm here for Elders Scrolls!" player completes all the quests, gets bored and leaves. But there are numerous games where the rift between new player and end-game has to be passed through interacting with other players or guides and not just through gameplay means.

ESO was always a very tricky project. Combining two very different audiences in one game is a big task. We, players, do not need to make it harder for developers. Just stick to like minded people and don't through a fit every time someone with a different mindset disagrees or even does not want to play with you.

I believe he's talking about something different in which is easier to tell what sets are bad or good in other games.

Royaji · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Hoo boy. You know what really gets me going? The fact that you can spend 49 levels doing fun quests, crafting, using set pieces that you find in overland....

And you hit level 50 - where NOTHING works any more the way it has for the previous 49 levels.

You know.... I cut my teeth on TES, beginning with Arena. I'm waiting out the rest of my life (probably) for TES VI. I thought ESO would be a good filler.... and yeah, it is in some ways. But damn. What on earth were these devs thinking?

Seriously people. Any other game you play (including MMOs), you learn how to play as you go along. So when you get to max level whatever that is, you have some sort of clue, and you understand the gear system - how to get max level gear, where to get it, what you can do if you can't get it....

This game.... Nope. NOTHING you learn in 49 levels makes any sense at all as soon as you hit 50. Oh sure - you have your rotations down.... but.... the gear you've come to love is now.... virtually useless. Oh, and regarding rotations etc. - hello? I've had a tankden for close to 50 levels, maxing health. But NOW, I'm supposed to go with either stam or mag? Why is that? That's silly - why can't she just continue to stack health, but add enough stam and mag to get reasonable DPS so she can still solo? I don't do group content period. I refuse - no one is going to want to deal with 2k ms lag, I'm not foisting that off on anyone....

This is the single strangest game I've EVER played.

All of these questions are reasonable but the answer is very simple. ESO is a MMO set in Elder Scrolls universe. It is not an Elder Scrolls game that is a MMO. Things you find so strange are completely mundane for someone with MMO background. ESO might be a bit more obscure than others because it tries to keep all the MMO stuff under the rug until your average "I'm here for Elders Scrolls!" player completes all the quests, gets bored and leaves. But there are numerous games where the rift between new player and end-game has to be passed through interacting with other players or guides and not just through gameplay means.

ESO was always a very tricky project. Combining two very different audiences in one game is a big task. We, players, do not need to make it harder for developers. Just stick to like minded people and don't through a fit every time someone with a different mindset disagrees or even does not want to play with you.

I believe he's talking about something different in which is easier to tell what sets are bad or good in other games.

That does not make sense. You do not learn what sets are good below 50. Or you get a very naive idea that you do but in reality that kind of content does not even require a set so anything works. This is once again an inherent issue of combining two different playerbases and a very open and flat gear progression system.

Maybe I should rephrase a bit - ESO can be treated as two games. The one that is more Elder Scrolls-like where you just run around and do quests and anything works. And the MMO-like that is accessible later (or even immediately for some players, I had 300 CPs in full meta gear doing HM trials because they came from another MMO and were not interested in Elder Scrolls-like part).

Finviuswe · December 2018

No, I got ten of em

Tasear · December 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Hoo boy. You know what really gets me going? The fact that you can spend 49 levels doing fun quests, crafting, using set pieces that you find in overland....

And you hit level 50 - where NOTHING works any more the way it has for the previous 49 levels.

You know.... I cut my teeth on TES, beginning with Arena. I'm waiting out the rest of my life (probably) for TES VI. I thought ESO would be a good filler.... and yeah, it is in some ways. But damn. What on earth were these devs thinking?

Seriously people. Any other game you play (including MMOs), you learn how to play as you go along. So when you get to max level whatever that is, you have some sort of clue, and you understand the gear system - how to get max level gear, where to get it, what you can do if you can't get it....

This game.... Nope. NOTHING you learn in 49 levels makes any sense at all as soon as you hit 50. Oh sure - you have your rotations down.... but.... the gear you've come to love is now.... virtually useless. Oh, and regarding rotations etc. - hello? I've had a tankden for close to 50 levels, maxing health. But NOW, I'm supposed to go with either stam or mag? Why is that? That's silly - why can't she just continue to stack health, but add enough stam and mag to get reasonable DPS so she can still solo? I don't do group content period. I refuse - no one is going to want to deal with 2k ms lag, I'm not foisting that off on anyone....

This is the single strangest game I've EVER played.

All of these questions are reasonable but the answer is very simple. ESO is a MMO set in Elder Scrolls universe. It is not an Elder Scrolls game that is a MMO. Things you find so strange are completely mundane for someone with MMO background. ESO might be a bit more obscure than others because it tries to keep all the MMO stuff under the rug until your average "I'm here for Elders Scrolls!" player completes all the quests, gets bored and leaves. But there are numerous games where the rift between new player and end-game has to be passed through interacting with other players or guides and not just through gameplay means.

ESO was always a very tricky project. Combining two very different audiences in one game is a big task. We, players, do not need to make it harder for developers. Just stick to like minded people and don't through a fit every time someone with a different mindset disagrees or even does not want to play with you.

I believe he's talking about something different in which is easier to tell what sets are bad or good in other games.

That does not make sense. You do not learn what sets are good below 50. Or you get a very naive idea that you do but in reality that kind of content does not even require a set so anything works. This is once again an inherent issue of combining two different playerbases and a very open and flat gear progression system.

Maybe I should rephrase a bit - ESO can be treated as two games. The one that is more Elder Scrolls-like where you just run around and do quests and anything works. And the MMO-like that is accessible later (or even immediately for some players, I had 300 CPs in full meta gear doing HM trials because they came from another MMO and were not interested in Elder Scrolls-like part).

Okay maybe I said it wrong. It looked like to me he was feeling confused how people actually learn meta gear or so it my take on it.

ccfeeling · December 2018

We know, Zos know, do they care?

Sylvermynx · December 2018

Eh, you both miss the point. The point is I spent almost 8 years playing WoW (yeah.... you know.... an MMO) and then another almost 4 years playing RIFT (eh, yep, an MMO). So I know how MMOs work and are different from SPMR game. I did NOT come to ESO expecting a SPMR game. I came here expecting the same sort of MMO experience I'd had in previous MMOs - that is, a lot of social stupidity (yep, check) combined with a world I know well from other games (yep, check).

Now, past that, I did expect that getting to max level would work similarly to the other MMOs. However, that's not the case at all. For one thing, the other games just add levels - in other words, there's never really a "max level" - and gear is predicated on that fact; whereas this game has artificially truncated itself at level 50, and then somehow thinks that a player will be thrilled to grind CP rather than real levels. Strange, but yeah, I can deal with it. I'll just consider CP "real levels"....

So regardless that I did a very large amount of research before deciding to "pay to play" (yes, I sub ESO+ - I always support with real money the games I play), somehow I missed that this one aspect of this game was.... so very different. Hence my surprise at level 47, discovering as I did more research, that apparently there is only one "endgame" setup - basically either raiding, or pvp.

Not doing either one. Hate them both. So guess what? I'll just continue with my tankden, run around doing all the stuff I didn't ever get through, and be perfectly happy. And I'm probably NOT changing her into either mag or stam. What a silly concept.

Oh. And BTW - I am "she". Not he.

Royaji · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh, you both miss the point. The point is I spent almost 8 years playing WoW (yeah.... you know.... an MMO) and then another almost 4 years playing RIFT (eh, yep, an MMO). So I know how MMOs work and are different from SPMR game. I did NOT come to ESO expecting a SPMR game. I came here expecting the same sort of MMO experience I'd had in previous MMOs - that is, a lot of social stupidity (yep, check) combined with a world I know well from other games (yep, check).

Now, past that, I did expect that getting to max level would work similarly to the other MMOs. However, that's not the case at all. For one thing, the other games just add levels - in other words, there's never really a "max level" - and gear is predicated on that fact; whereas this game has artificially truncated itself at level 50, and then somehow thinks that a player will be thrilled to grind CP rather than real levels. Strange, but yeah, I can deal with it. I'll just consider CP "real levels"....

So regardless that I did a very large amount of research before deciding to "pay to play" (yes, I sub ESO+ - I always support with real money the games I play), somehow I missed that this one aspect of this game was.... so very different. Hence my surprise at level 47, discovering as I did more research, that apparently there is only one "endgame" setup - basically either raiding, or pvp.

Not doing either one. Hate them both. So guess what? I'll just continue with my tankden, run around doing all the stuff I didn't ever get through, and be perfectly happy. And I'm probably NOT changing her into either mag or stam. What a silly concept.

Oh. And BTW - I am "she". Not he.

Then I do not understand what even is an issue for you? For you purposes of general running around and not touching raiding and PvP pretty much anything works. Go nuts. This is that Elder Scrolls-like part I was talking about. And since you hate the other part so badly, why would you even be interested in whats happening to it?

Morgha_Kul · December 2018

This is actually something I've been agonizing over, but my character is a special case.

He's intended to be equally able to use magic and staves as swords and bows. This has meant dividing his trait points between Stamina and Magicka (I'd like to put some in Health too, but his damage is dismal enough as it is).

This has meant trying to figure out what kind of armour to wear (Light helps the magic damage, and Medium the weapon damage, but without Heavy armour he's really, REALLY squishy), and what SETS to use. Ideally, he'd have two sets with 5 bits each, but how to divide them up? Do I go for the armour skills that require 5 parts to be useful? Do I spend CP on armour types? Actually, how to I spend my CP at all?

He's proving to be a daunting challenge... Equipment sets are but one small part of his problems.

Now, on my OTHER characters, it often depends on their particular backstory. For instance, Morgha Kul was a summoner in the original Morrowind game, so I took the Defiler set to get the Hunger popping in on occasion... and since it seems that he now MUST have all his trait points in Magicka in order to do adequate damage and have an adequate shield, that also means using Light armour to boost that damage. The Light armour he's using summons a Fabricant (I don't recall the name of it). So, because of his concept, the armour he uses is more or less chosen for me.