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Are there really only a few usable sets?
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
Not every set is geared towards "end game". Ashen's Grip, for example, is a great crafted set for those just starting out in the game with crafting/leveling a character. Only 2 traits so you can make it for yourself very early in the game.
You need to step back and look at the entire game..all points of it and what is available at those points.
Many posters here are only focused on end game competitive trials.
Also, Ashen Grip could use a buff. It used to be a tradeoff with Red Mountain, but that's no longer true.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There was some decent set variety for PvE DPS (magicka) before the arrival of Siroria and Spell Strategist. Now it's those 2 or bust.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. There is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for.. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.
I dont think you fully read my comments.
1. I never said people cant pass dps checks. I said bosses dont have dps checks. But bosses not having dps doesnt help bad players.
*looks at The Mage, Domhaus, Bloodspawn, and a ton of other bosses*
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »2. Reread my comment I said julianos on an altmer STAMsorc...
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »3. As for your tank gear comment. I promise you if I put on any 160 CP gear in the game regardless of whether its tank gear or not I could deliver enough dps to clear any content in this game...so once again if your standard is clearing, it can be done with any set. But if you want to get a score or a nice and efficient clear you need specific gear..
I love your meme pix!0 -
kaevix✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. I don't feel their statement adds any actual value because they often just ignore other points of view and insult others... or make bets. I am not the only one feeling this way either just look in the thread. Different points of view don't matter to liofa and they never have, so yeah I took a jab, cause I am tired of them walking on my threads and taking jabs first. There is no suger coating , liofa is a elitist. This is freedom of speech when I say that and other players have tagged reps in nastier things. If I deserved to be flagged for that fine, but yeah liofa lets never talk to each other cause we don't get along at all.
Fixed some spelling for you:)
report yourself for me too. Doesn't really add to conversation, but says something about your own character.
What do you mean? I have nothing but love for you:) You are the Donald Trump of ESO:)
Doesn't feel like, sounds like more of a pun to that latest video. But I created this thread with sincere intentions to talk about a concept and how different people feel...just got a little touchy.
Touch me good, my queen!Why, when an AV actress leashes her pet slave and sits on his face she's called sexy or a babe, but when I do that to my pvp opponents, I'm called toxic?
Why, when someone swaps toons to a different faction to farm 25k AP for transmutes, it's seen as a bit of naughty fun, but when I delete my DC rank 50 Grand Overlord with 4000 hours clocked to create an EP Argonian, I'm called a faction swapper?
Say no to censorship lads.0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »There was some decent set variety for PvE DPS (magicka) before the arrival of Siroria and Spell Strategist. Now it's those 2 or bust.
Siroria gets overhyped. It's the 2018 version of War Maiden. No, the set does not do what you thought when you first saw it. Difference is, Siroria does deliver, but only if you're hanging out in one spot, so it looks really good on parses, and is utter dog **** for DPS who don't understand they need to stand in their own stupid.
EDIT: In fairness to you, @MLGProPlayer, this is entirely a PEBCAK issue, but I've seen a few too many Siroria users who really do not understand the set making a mess out of it.
That said, yeah, those two sets feel a bit too dominant at the moment. I'm not inclined to sign off and say, "yeah, they're the only thing out there," because I really don't believe that, but they are flavor of the month, and it's wearing a bit thin for me.Edited by starkerealm on December 29, 2018 5:51PM1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
Exactly. It's like a jogger giving running tips to a marathon runner...2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. So I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 5:55PM1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The bolded part is the problemT3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.0 -
Nolic1✭✭✭Yeah there are over 300+ sets in the game but remember by math and team work the meta only finds a hand full usefull make all other sets you have to use to get these sets useless.
Sherman from Sherman's Gaming
Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.
Youtube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
Worth remembering, the actual damage checks in this game are extremely low in comparison to where most endgame players are at.
Also, yeah, you're right, buffing the underperforming sets is less desirable from a game health standpoint than nerfing the overperforming ones. I get this is a major sticking point, but if you simply buff everything up, you end up with power creep. You can see that now in ESO, with things like Rakkhat, where you have vet groups that don't assign runners because they can burn him before the ritualists can trigger a wipe. It trivializes existing content, and gives players less to do long term.
Now, there's something to be said for players getting more powerful as the game progresses, so they can look back and say, "hey, remember when this was hard?" But, in the long term, nerfs (at least some nerfs) can be very healthy.
That said, there are some sets that do really need buffs. They simply fail to live up to better alternatives already in game, or don't do enough to justify a 5pc slot. Ashen Grip, Alessia's Bulwark, Prayer Shawl... I mean, the list goes on. And these don't need to be, "the best sets ever," but they really should have a home. I had to explain to a friend once, that, "no, really, Vampire's Kiss is not worth using." Which is unfortunate, because he'd just bought three attunable crafting stations so he could make it in his house.1 -
TheRealSniker✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are only a few good sets in the game, because those few sets overshadow all other sets by sheer numbers
Math is a beautiful thingEdited by TheRealSniker on December 29, 2018 6:01PM0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agreed, almost 80% of Sets are useless.
Meta all over the year remains same, ZOS do not care anything but simply keep creating lackluster new Sets.0 -
kaevix✭✭✭@Jeremy Alright man you gotta stop, you're embarrassing the rest of us Jeremys in front of the non-Jeremys.Why, when an AV actress leashes her pet slave and sits on his face she's called sexy or a babe, but when I do that to my pvp opponents, I'm called toxic?
Why, when someone swaps toons to a different faction to farm 25k AP for transmutes, it's seen as a bit of naughty fun, but when I delete my DC rank 50 Grand Overlord with 4000 hours clocked to create an EP Argonian, I'm called a faction swapper?
Say no to censorship lads.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 6:11PM0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
I'm sorry, I don't talk with RP-ers
5 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
The most successful MMORPG of all time is WoW....and gear choice doesnt exist in that game at all...I'm not sure where you get the idea that choice is common in gear selection in most MMOs2 -
kaevix✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
Are you a gameplayist? Why can't me and my friend play the game the elitist way we want to while the wheelchair bound kid next door RPs it out ingame?Why, when an AV actress leashes her pet slave and sits on his face she's called sexy or a babe, but when I do that to my pvp opponents, I'm called toxic?
Why, when someone swaps toons to a different faction to farm 25k AP for transmutes, it's seen as a bit of naughty fun, but when I delete my DC rank 50 Grand Overlord with 4000 hours clocked to create an EP Argonian, I'm called a faction swapper?
Say no to censorship lads.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Jeremy Alright man you gotta stop, you're embarrassing the rest of us Jeremys in front of the non-Jeremys.
Oh I haven't even started yet.
So if these tame posts are embarrassing you I suggest you leave this thread now. ^^ Because this is about as docile as my contempt for "elitism" gets.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
Worth remembering, the actual damage checks in this game are extremely low in comparison to where most endgame players are at.
Also, yeah, you're right, buffing the underperforming sets is less desirable from a game health standpoint than nerfing the overperforming ones. I get this is a major sticking point, but if you simply buff everything up, you end up with power creep. You can see that now in ESO, with things like Rakkhat, where you have vet groups that don't assign runners because they can burn him before the ritualists can trigger a wipe. It trivializes existing content, and gives players less to do long term.
Now, there's something to be said for players getting more powerful as the game progresses, so they can look back and say, "hey, remember when this was hard?" But, in the long term, nerfs (at least some nerfs) can be very healthy.
That said, there are some sets that do really need buffs. They simply fail to live up to better alternatives already in game, or don't do enough to justify a 5pc slot. Ashen Grip, Alessia's Bulwark, Prayer Shawl... I mean, the list goes on. And these don't need to be, "the best sets ever," but they really should have a home. I had to explain to a friend once, that, "no, really, Vampire's Kiss is not worth using." Which is unfortunate, because he'd just bought three attunable crafting stations so he could make it in his house.
I think you missed what I was saying.
I wasn't suggesting that high-damage sets should be nerfed. I'm perfectly fine with certain sets doing more damage than other sets. Not every set should do the same amount of damage. That was in fact the point all along. There is more to this game than just doing as much damage as possible. That's not the only thing that matters. And it's perfectly acceptable for someone to wear a set that does less damage.
Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 6:19PM0 -
kaevix✭✭✭@Jeremy Alright man you gotta stop, you're embarrassing the rest of us Jeremys in front of the non-Jeremys.
Oh I haven't even started yet.
So if these tame posts are embarrassing you I suggest you leave this thread now. ^^ Because this is about as docile as my contempt for "elitism" gets.
Someone get ready to chain the savant back to his domain once he gets loose!Why, when an AV actress leashes her pet slave and sits on his face she's called sexy or a babe, but when I do that to my pvp opponents, I'm called toxic?
Why, when someone swaps toons to a different faction to farm 25k AP for transmutes, it's seen as a bit of naughty fun, but when I delete my DC rank 50 Grand Overlord with 4000 hours clocked to create an EP Argonian, I'm called a faction swapper?
Say no to censorship lads.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
Are you a gameplayist? Why can't me and my friend play the game the elitist way we want to while the wheelchair bound kid next door RPs it out ingame?
You and your friend can play how you want - so long as you extend that same courtesy to others.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 6:21PM0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
NoAre there really only a few usable sets?
The min/max crowd is obsessed with fractional percentages and everything that isn't current "meta" is labeled "trash" when in reality many, many sets are perfectly viable.
Meta chasers have extreme tunnel vision.
The difference between meta and most "trash" is tiny. There are many gear combinations that can perform within 1% of meta.
7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
The most successful MMORPG of all time is WoW....and gear choice doesnt exist in that game at all...I'm not sure where you get the idea that choice is common in gear selection in most MMOs
WoW was not like that in the beginning. It has been streamlined and conformed over the years to appease those kind of attitudes - and much to that game's detriment too I would add. That game was a lot more interesting in the old days before they flattened the character development.
I would also point out the reason WoW is the most successful MMO of all time has nothing to do with its "gear choice". It has to do with the fact it was the first MMO to effectively market to China (the most populated country in the world). That is why their Asian servers are bigger than their North American Servers. It's also why the World of Warcraft Movie bombed here in the U.S. yet did well in China.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 6:27PM0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭
NoAre there really only a few usable sets?
The min/max crowd is obsessed with fractional percentages and everything that isn't current "meta" is labeled "trash" when in reality many, many sets are perfectly viable.
Meta chasers have extreme tunnel vision.
The difference between meta and most "trash" is tiny. There are many gear combinations that can perform within 1% of meta.
Citation needed1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, Now Night Silence is very nice for the DB / thief guild quests and dailies or general stealing / pickpocketing.Juju_beans wrote: »DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
Not every set is geared towards "end game". Ashen's Grip, for example, is a great crafted set for those just starting out in the game with crafting/leveling a character. Only 2 traits so you can make it for yourself very early in the game.
You need to step back and look at the entire game..all points of it and what is available at those points.
Many posters here are only focused on end game competitive trials.
Its not an combat set but utility one.
And I agree that its lots of junk crafted sets. Now for crafted its not much need for second best, it was once but today its very trivial to get some to craft gear for you.
Also leveling sets are not updated for battle leveling. Old leveling sets needed lots of sustain but that is an non issue with battle leveling until you get close to 50.
Now for overland sets its nice with second tire sets as they are cheap. Get an decent overland set and an crafted and you are good to go. People are also more likely to give you second tire sets or niche ones in dungeons or trials.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
The most successful MMORPG of all time is WoW....and gear choice doesnt exist in that game at all...I'm not sure where you get the idea that choice is common in gear selection in most MMOs
WoW was not like that in the beginning. It has been streamlined and conformed over the years to appease those kind of attitudes - and much to that game's detriment too I would add. That game was a lot more interesting in the old days before they flattened the character development.
I would also point out the reason WoW is the most successful MMO of all time has nothing to do with its "gear choice". It has to do with the fact it was the first MMO to effectively market to China (the most populated country in the world). That is why their Asian servers are bigger than their North American Servers. It's also why the World of Warcraft Movie bombed here in the U.S. yet did well in China.
Going off of us numbers my point still stands0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it.
Last I checked, to know how to change the system, you need an in-depth understanding of how the system works. IMHO, players who do not play at a high level (i.e. casual players, solo players, RPers, etc.) do not possess that level of knowledge to know how their proposed changes will impact the game's overall health.
I have seen countless suggestions or pieces of "advice" that are just ill-conceived or downright incorrect.
To be perfectly honest, casual players who have never put up a trials leaderboard score who think they know better than those who have put up those scores are actually the "elitists" in the community. That, to me, is the height of elitism: to think you know better than the experts without solid and tangible evidence.
The only suggestions I ever see "elitist" give on how to improve other sets is to buff them so they can do the same amount of damage as what ever silly "META" set up they are currently using. SO I would argue the exact opposite - in that they have a very shallow understanding of what MMORPGs are actually about. To them it's just a contest to do the most damage per second. That's all that seems to matter to them.
MMORPGs were a lot more interesting gameplay wise before "elitists" and their silly DPS charts came along. So I would argue they have done nothing for the "overall health" of this genre.
Wat even. You clearly have no experience in endgame PvE or PvP. Therefore, your suggestions are absolutely pointless. What buffs do solo players need when everything in overworld just melts if you have half a brain?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
I didn't even mention the "overworld". I've done plenty of endgame PvE. I've completed every Veteran DLC dungeon multiple times and done quite a few trials.
But that is beside the point.
My point was the only suggestion I ever see "elitists" offer to improve anything is to ADD MOAR DAMAGE. That is literally the only thing they seem to care about: to kill anything and everything as fast and efficiently as possible.
MMORPGs were never suppose to be some silly epeen contest to see who can rate the highest on some number chart. They were about creating your own unique character build that fit you and then teaming up with other players. It's not suppose to be some rat race to conform to what ever build does the most damage as possible and demand everyone else use it otherwise they are an impediment to the group. That is literally how elitists play MMORPGs. And if there is a more shallow or fundamentally flawed way to approach MMORPGs I can't think of one.
The most successful MMORPG of all time is WoW....and gear choice doesnt exist in that game at all...I'm not sure where you get the idea that choice is common in gear selection in most MMOs
WoW was not like that in the beginning. It has been streamlined and conformed over the years to appease those kind of attitudes - and much to that game's detriment too I would add. That game was a lot more interesting in the old days before they flattened the character development.
I would also point out the reason WoW is the most successful MMO of all time has nothing to do with its "gear choice". It has to do with the fact it was the first MMO to effectively market to China (the most populated country in the world). That is why their Asian servers are bigger than their North American Servers. It's also why the World of Warcraft Movie bombed here in the U.S. yet did well in China.
Going off of us numbers my point still stands
Except that It doesn't stand.
If you were to take China out of the equation WoW would not be nearly so successful. It's numbers would be on par with other games out there, including this one.
According to the latest information I can find - WoW currently has 900k active people on US realm and a million on its EU realms. Estimates are that ESO has 3 million players on there's.
Over half of WoW's population is from China.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 6:37PM1
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