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Are there really only a few usable sets?
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is to say there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. Because there is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform with. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 4:43PM0 -
DawnWarrior✭✭✭There are over 300 armor sets (including monster, overland, crafted, etc.) in game right now.
Given the number of possible combinations, I'd say that there are many, many good sets out there.
However, not many players have the time (or the inclination) to test thousands of combinations to get a "best" set for a certain dungeon or PVP situation.
(Let's not even start talking about the storage space required for all those sets.)
That's why we rely on trusted sources to publish workable combinations of gear.
So, I would say it is a misguided perception at best.
Let's talk instead about a redesign of the entire armor system so we can build an armor set from scratch, selecting from a list of traits (max attribute, attribute recovery, set bonus). I don't want to have to sift through 500 armor sets 2 years from now.0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Given folks have different gamelay goals and priorities - as well as different play styles - there are tons of good sets to accomodate thtat. The bigger issue is accessibility of sets, which is hamstrung because of dumb mechanics that ‘have to’ exist in MMOs.
How do you feel limited by accessibility of sets?
Many are gated behind specific types of content such that the sets might as well not even exist for me. Getting rid of the stupidity that is ‘bind on pickup’ would go a long way to fixing that, as would getting rid of the draconian limits on inventory space. If you don’t like trials and almost never run them, those sets might as well not exist in the game for you, as an example. You can’t get the set pieces easily, and you’re not going to waste precious bank space on hoarding sets you probably can’t ever finish. Same problem with dungeon sets, especially the onerous DLC dungeon sets. These problems are further compounded if you are a player who has a life outside of this game, you refuse to (or do not have time to) grind or farm for whatever reason, or if the content is simply too difficult for you to clear (either due to you or random team mates) in the first place.
This isn’t something the developers will change, which is unfortunate. Limited inventory space and stupid bind on pickup mechanics are part of their MMO design. So is providing gear carrots for competitive gamers that are basically inacessible to most of the player base. They won’t stop gating gear sets behind new chapters or DLCs either. So I just ignore all bind on pickup sets when designing my characters. That’s ignoring probably half the sets in the game. =(0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Given folks have different gamelay goals and priorities - as well as different play styles - there are tons of good sets to accomodate thtat. The bigger issue is accessibility of sets, which is hamstrung because of dumb mechanics that ‘have to’ exist in MMOs.
How do you feel limited by accessibility of sets?
Many are gated behind specific types of content such that the sets might as well not even exist for me. Getting rid of the stupidity that is ‘bind on pickup’ would go a long way to fixing that, as would getting rid of the draconian limits on inventory space. If you don’t like trials and almost never run them, those sets might as well not exist in the game for you, as an example. You can’t get the set pieces easily, and you’re not going to waste precious bank space on hoarding sets you probably can’t ever finish. Same problem with dungeon sets, especially the onerous DLC dungeon sets. These problems are further compounded if you are a player who has a life outside of this game, you refuse to (or do not have time to) grind or farm for whatever reason, or if the content is simply too difficult for you to clear (either due to you or random team mates) in the first place.
This isn’t something the developers will change, which is unfortunate. Limited inventory space and stupid bind on pickup mechanics are part of their MMO design. So is providing gear carrots for competitive gamers that are basically inacessible to most of the player base. They won’t stop gating gear sets behind new chapters or DLCs either. So I just ignore all bind on pickup sets when designing my characters. That’s ignoring probably half the sets in the game. =(
I was actually asking this because I recall a patch note that handled this issue by making some overland sets very comparable to trial sets.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. There is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for.. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.
I dont think you fully read my comments.
1. I never said people cant pass dps checks. I said bosses dont have dps checks. But bosses not having dps doesnt help bad players.
2. Reread my comment I said julianos on an altmer STAMsorc...
3. As for your tank gear comment. I promise you if I put on any 160 CP gear in the game regardless of whether its tank gear or not I could deliver enough dps to clear any content in this game...so once again if your standard is clearing, it can be done with any set. But if you want to get a score or a nice and efficient clear you need specific gear..2 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As long as you meet the DPS expectations of your raid leader who cares what sets you run... There are several sets that DDs can wear that are close enough.
That said, there are some sets that provide significant group support/damage, so they are considered required equipment for a raid. IMO this gives the appearance of low diversity.
What is Ironic is that nerfing NMG and Sunderflame actually removed 2 options for stamina DDs. My choice would have been to add Magicka equivalent sets and increase diversity, but here we are...
Playing since beta...1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. There is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for.. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.
I dont think you fully read my comments.
1. I never said people cant pass dps checks. I said bosses dont have dps checks. But bosses not having dps doesnt help bad players.
2. Reread my comment I said julianos on an altmer STAMsorc...
3. As for your tank gear comment. I promise you if I put on any 160 CP gear in the game regardless of whether its tank gear or not I could deliver enough dps to clear any content in this game...so once again if your standard is clearing, it can be done with any set. But if you want to get a score or a nice and efficient clear you need specific gear..
1. Some bosses have DPS checks. Valkyn Skoria comes to mind. The gargoyle in Spindlecluth, that assassin in Fungal Grotto 2... etc. I can think of a few more also off top of my head, but I see no reason to list more.
2. I don't play as a sorcerer so I can't really comment about the specific details on that class. All I know is that Juliano's is a pretty decent DPS set. I've used that one before.
3. Then I would say you are an exceptional player who likely has invested CP into damage-increasing categories. Because when I try to do damage as my tank it is embarrassing. I fare a lot better when I wear actual damage-dealing sets. So I can say from experience they do make a difference.
Regardless, by suggesting you are capable of clearing all the content on your tank you are just making our point for us - which is to say you do not need to equip a couple of "META" sets to perform on this game.
Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 4:57PM0 -
DivineFirstYOLO✭✭✭✭Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
Zerg Squad
Godslayer x 4
Pro questing fees for RPers in Cyrodiil, pay your taxes!
PC - EU4 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. There is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for.. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.
I dont think you fully read my comments.
1. I never said people cant pass dps checks. I said bosses dont have dps checks. But bosses not having dps doesnt help bad players.
2. Reread my comment I said julianos on an altmer STAMsorc...
3. As for your tank gear comment. I promise you if I put on any 160 CP gear in the game regardless of whether its tank gear or not I could deliver enough dps to clear any content in this game...so once again if your standard is clearing, it can be done with any set. But if you want to get a score or a nice and efficient clear you need specific gear..
1. Some bosses have DPS checks. Valkyn Skoria comes to mind. The gargoyle in Spindlecluth, that assassin in Fungal Grotto 2... etc. I can think of a few more also off top of my head, but I see no reason to list more.
2. I don't play as a sorcerer so I can't really comment about the specific details on that class. All I know is that Juliano's is a pretty decent DPS set. I've used that one before.
3. Then I would say you are an exceptional player who likely has invested CP into damage-increasing categories. Because when I try to do damage as my tank it is embarrassing. I fare a lot better when I wear actual damage-dealing sets. So I can say from experience they do make a difference.
Regardless, by suggesting you are capable of clearing all the content on your tank you are just making our point for us - which is to say you do not need to equip a couple of "META" sets to perform on this game.
1. Dps checks in this game are nongear based.
2. Omfg....STAMSORC STAMINA STAMINA STAMINA....julianos is a magicka set...lol
3. You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT need ANY meta gear to complete content. But clearing is not performance. Performance is fast and efficient completion which yields scores in trials or fast completes in dungeons. Performance IS meta based...0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. There is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for.. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.
I dont think you fully read my comments.
1. I never said people cant pass dps checks. I said bosses dont have dps checks. But bosses not having dps doesnt help bad players.
2. Reread my comment I said julianos on an altmer STAMsorc...
3. As for your tank gear comment. I promise you if I put on any 160 CP gear in the game regardless of whether its tank gear or not I could deliver enough dps to clear any content in this game...so once again if your standard is clearing, it can be done with any set. But if you want to get a score or a nice and efficient clear you need specific gear..
1. Some bosses have DPS checks. Valkyn Skoria comes to mind. The gargoyle in Spindlecluth, that assassin in Fungal Grotto 2... etc. I can think of a few more also off top of my head, but I see no reason to list more.
2. I don't play as a sorcerer so I can't really comment about the specific details on that class. All I know is that Juliano's is a pretty decent DPS set. I've used that one before.
3. Then I would say you are an exceptional player who likely has invested CP into damage-increasing categories. Because when I try to do damage as my tank it is embarrassing. I fare a lot better when I wear actual damage-dealing sets. So I can say from experience they do make a difference.
Regardless, by suggesting you are capable of clearing all the content on your tank you are just making our point for us - which is to say you do not need to equip a couple of "META" sets to perform on this game.
I do want to apologize. I sincerely had to look up what happens if you dont kill the bosses you mentioned on time. Ive played this game since beta and have never seen those dps checks...I think to get them to occur you would literally have to just light attack those bosses...that's how low the dps has to be...0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
A lot of the crafted sets are pretty terrible by comparison. The overland/dungeon sets are generally a lot better. But still, they are better than just regular non-set gear while leveling, which I would guess is what most of these are for.
Though I have used Twilight's Embrace in the past. That set isn't too awful.
Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 5:08PM0 -
oXI_Viper_IXo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
Couldn't agree with you more. We need quality sets, not just a large quantity of them. Many of them are just too useless or niche to be viable in any kind of meaningful content. I would love some more 9-trait craftable sets so we actually had a good reason to max crafting (as long as they were well thought out, quality sets).3 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Edited by Tasear on December 29, 2018 5:24PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
Couldn't agree with you more. We need quality sets, not just a large quantity of them. Many of them are just too useless or niche to be viable in any kind of meaningful content. I would love some more 9-trait craftable sets so we actually had a good reason to max crafting (as long as they were well thought out, quality sets).
Twice Born Star is a respectable set. I use that one a lot and like it.
Armor Master and Way of The Arena looks pretty good too, though I've never personally tried those out. Eternal Hunt looks kind of interesting too.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 5:14PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. There is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for.. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.
I dont think you fully read my comments.
1. I never said people cant pass dps checks. I said bosses dont have dps checks. But bosses not having dps doesnt help bad players.
2. Reread my comment I said julianos on an altmer STAMsorc...
3. As for your tank gear comment. I promise you if I put on any 160 CP gear in the game regardless of whether its tank gear or not I could deliver enough dps to clear any content in this game...so once again if your standard is clearing, it can be done with any set. But if you want to get a score or a nice and efficient clear you need specific gear..
1. Some bosses have DPS checks. Valkyn Skoria comes to mind. The gargoyle in Spindlecluth, that assassin in Fungal Grotto 2... etc. I can think of a few more also off top of my head, but I see no reason to list more.
2. I don't play as a sorcerer so I can't really comment about the specific details on that class. All I know is that Juliano's is a pretty decent DPS set. I've used that one before.
3. Then I would say you are an exceptional player who likely has invested CP into damage-increasing categories. Because when I try to do damage as my tank it is embarrassing. I fare a lot better when I wear actual damage-dealing sets. So I can say from experience they do make a difference.
Regardless, by suggesting you are capable of clearing all the content on your tank you are just making our point for us - which is to say you do not need to equip a couple of "META" sets to perform on this game.
I do want to apologize. I sincerely had to look up what happens if you dont kill the bosses you mentioned on time. Ive played this game since beta and have never seen those dps checks...I think to get them to occur you would literally have to just light attack those bosses...that's how low the dps has to be...
I've played the game since beta too. But I was in a group just the other day that couldn't pass the DPS check on Valkryn Skoria and I had to literally solo the boss incrementally to death on my tank on that tiny island. It was hell. But it definitely happens - and they were doing a lot more than just light-attacking. Otherwise they would have never made it past the other bosses (some of which also have DPS checks).
You need a good rotation and decent gear to do enough DPS to beat quite a few of the bosses on this game. You probably just don't realize it because you're all CPed out and from the sound of it have a very offensive tank. But it's not as easy as you are making it out to be because you have to do quite a bit more than just spam light attacks to beat them.
Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 5:35PM0 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭NVM forums won't let post from my phone....Edited by DjMuscleboy02 on December 29, 2018 5:25PMBrodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. I don't feel their statement adds any actual value because they often just ignore other points of view and insult others... or make bets. I am not the only one feeling this way either just look in the thread. Different points of view don't matter to liofa and they never have, so yeah I took a jab, cause I am tired of them walking on my threads and taking jabs first. There is no suger coating , liofa is a elitist. This is freedom of speech when I say that and other players have tagged reps in nastier things. If I deserved to be flagged for that fine, but yeah liofa lets never talk to each other cause we don't get along at all.
Fixed some spelling for you:)1 -
SkysOutThizeOut✭✭✭✭The only viable sets are the ones you make viable. The only effective playstyles are the ones you find. You can only be as good as your understanding of your character.
The Theory Crafter Motto2 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. I don't feel their statement adds any actual value because they often just ignore other points of view and insult others... or make bets. I am not the only one feeling this way either just look in the thread. Different points of view don't matter to liofa and they never have, so yeah I took a jab, cause I am tired of them walking on my threads and taking jabs first. There is no suger coating , liofa is a elitist. This is freedom of speech when I say that and other players have tagged reps in nastier things. If I deserved to be flagged for that fine, but yeah liofa lets never talk to each other cause we don't get along at all.
Fixed some spelling for you:)
report yourself for me too. Doesn't really add to conversation, but says something about your own character.Edited by Tasear on December 29, 2018 5:29PM3 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think jc changed this quite a bit. Whatever the build lacks can be added at the end. I swap jewelry traits all the time.1 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...3 -
Ciovala✭✭✭The problem is I only see numbers on target dummies, since there are too many variables otherwise. A lot of the new meta sets are great if you are attacking a single target and not moving much, but I wonder how they perform in other situations.
Edit: I am talking about the sets that are not obviously useless such as quite a few with weird procs, etc. But, when you compare the new 'meta' ones with other solid sets I wonder how big the difference really is in a dynamic fight.Edited by Ciovala on December 29, 2018 5:42PMLooking for a mature and helpful social guild - play PvE, PvP, and like crafting.0 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
Not every set is geared towards "end game". Ashen's Grip, for example, is a great crafted set for those just starting out in the game with crafting/leveling a character. Only 2 traits so you can make it for yourself very early in the game.
You need to step back and look at the entire game..all points of it and what is available at those points.
Many posters here are only focused on end game competitive trials.
3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
I suppose that depends on how you define the word "good".
If the set gets the job done - is more fun to use for the person - and offers advantages in other areas of importance I would say the set is good enough and certainly practical.
He gave you the exact definition and gave the exact explanation detailing how things work.
Sort of.
He (or she) basically said there were two ways to play - one way that was "good" and the other way that was just for fun.
I was trying to counter that somewhat by saying you can be both good and have fun at the same time. You do not need to do the most amount of damage possible to be "good". The "META" exists only in the player's mind because so long as a strategy is successful then it is just as good as the supposed "meta" strategy is.
Reread the message you quoted. He clearly states "max performance"
He also said this:
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do.
That's the part of his quote I was taking issue with.
Good for max performance
Perhaps that's what he meant. But in the piece I highlighted, he suggested the none "META" sets weren't even "practical" - which at the very least implies they aren't useful or good.
My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight - then it's fine. Any standards beyond that are just part of the player's imagination - and that's where "elitism" often comes into play. This is when players expect others to live up to their own personal standards rather the ones set by the game itself.
And in that case i can slot Julianos on a altmer stam sorc and pass any trial dps checks currently in the game. You mention "My point was so long as a set gets the job done: meaning that it it allows the player to perform at a level capable of winning the fight". But literally any set in the game will do that. No trial boss currently has any meaningful dps checks, so your argument doesnt really make sense to me. You can use any set to complete content, the argument being made is that only a few sets can be considered good (as in best).
Well that's fair I suppose, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me either. ^^
As someone who pugs often I have met plenty of DPS who are incapable of passing the DPS checks currently in the game. So you can count yourself lucky if you've never run into them. Because trust me, they are out there.
But specifically to your point: Julianos is a pretty good set for DPS. So it makes sense that wearing that set would aid you in passing DPS checks. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here. Unless you are just trying to make me and Taesar's point for us - which is there is a wide variety of sets you can use on this game to be successful. That's been our point all along. This idea that only a couple of sets are any good at performing is just malarky. There is actually a wide assortment of gear out there players can use to adequately perform. But obviously a DPS dressed in tank gear and doing 5k DPS isn't going to be able to do enough damage. So gear does matter, and you do need to dress yourself in something sensible to the role you are signing up for.. But it doesn't matter to the point there are only a couple of sets you can use to be any good.
I dont think you fully read my comments.
1. I never said people cant pass dps checks. I said bosses dont have dps checks. But bosses not having dps doesnt help bad players.
*looks at The Mage, Domhaus, Bloodspawn, and a ton of other bosses*
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »2. Reread my comment I said julianos on an altmer STAMsorc...
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »3. As for your tank gear comment. I promise you if I put on any 160 CP gear in the game regardless of whether its tank gear or not I could deliver enough dps to clear any content in this game...so once again if your standard is clearing, it can be done with any set. But if you want to get a score or a nice and efficient clear you need specific gear..
0 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭Mathematecally, yeah, it would take a statician to figure out and perfect conditions, but it doesn't mean it is the best set for everyone. Too many factors such as play style, muscle memory, lag, rng, ect...0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. It's fine to desagree with others, but they constantly don't look at others point of view and make sure to enforce that what they believe is the only way. When is the last time you seen a "current" class rep ask community and not discord how they feel about a subject? Exactly ..my point, there is only my way or it's wrong is problematic thinking.
Since when is Discord not part of the ESO community? Just because all of us elitist *** are on there doesn't make Discord not a part of the community. If anything, us elitist *** are the ones with the most pertinent knowledge to improve the game...
To be honest, I've never seen a game improved by "elitism"
All it does is alienate other players, replace variety with conformity and leads generally to a less interesting game play experience obsessed with speed and lame DPS epeen comparisons.
They may be part of "the community". But it's definitely debatable on whether or not it's a productive part of it. In fact: I would argue the rise of DPS meters has been the bane of this genre.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 5:45PM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »Yes, too many sets are outdated or simply trash. Of course if your goal is to simply role play in a tavern you can wear what ever set you want, you may also waste your time however you want, right?
Anyway, let's just take a look at the crafted sets. More than 50% of them are completely useless/weak.
- Adept Rider: Seriously who is using this?
- Alessia's Bulwark: Jesus Christ, weak 5p, 5 sec duration lmao.
- Ashen Grip: A stam set that gives a 1118 fire dmg proc - GG.
- Assassin's Guile: Not good enough since 2-4p are conflictive.
- Death's Wind: New players set. Just bad.
- Kvatch Gladiator: when your enemy is below 25% health you can simply execute which will deal more dmg.
- Might of the Lost Legion: ZOS must have been out of ideas.
- Morkuldin: Weak, compare to proc chance and damage of viper/sloads.
- Night's Silence: RP set, since RP is for casuals this set is useless.
- Noble's Conquest: How many interruptable skills are there hmm? Not enough to make this any good.
- Oblivion's Foe: No comment.
- Redistributor: Wow, 2347 heal every 3 seconds for one ally, I rather buff my healing spring and heal 6 targets at that time.
- Shalidor's Curse: Useless for PvE, values halfed in PvP, trash.
- Song of Lamae: I would like to see statistics of how many people every used this set. Probably close to 0.
- Twilight's Embrace: No thanks, I'd rather use the Naga Shaman set.
- Vampire's Kiss: Again out of ideas it seems.
- Varen's Legacy: Could have potential, but very weak right now.
- Whitestrake's Retribution: what is this good for? A tanking set? Rather get something useful instead.
..and that's only the craftable sets..
Buff/change some of them to get some diversity.
Not every set is geared towards "end game". Ashen's Grip, for example, is a great crafted set for those just starting out in the game with crafting/leveling a character. Only 2 traits so you can make it for yourself very early in the game.
You need to step back and look at the entire game..all points of it and what is available at those points.
Many posters here are only focused on end game competitive trials.
That's the point I was trying to make in an earlier post.
A lot of those crafted sets are probably just meant to be leveling gear and aren't intended for endgame play.Edited by Jeremy on December 29, 2018 5:47PM0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »
This made me laugh, not gonna lie ^^
On a serious note, there are only few sets (for each role) that are actually good; mathematically and practically. This will always be the case, whatever devs do. If you rate the best sets 10/10, others fall behind. Some are 9, some are 1 out of 10. If a player cares about the group and its performance, they should go for the 10/10 sets. It's basic logic and a part of being a teamplayer. That's why I said on my first post that if you care about the group, there are only few sets to choose from. If not, do whatever you want.
There are many groups out there who don't care about max performance, including one of my own groups. We have Argonian DPS players, MagSorcs, Stam DDs in Cloudrest/Asylum etc. because we don't care. It's for fun. On the other hand, I am also in groups where raid leaders tell people what to use or swap characters even. Guess what, they follow word by word because they care about reaching the max performance in that group.
That's not how it works though. Not all these meta sets work on each fight the best.
That's exactly how it works. That's why they are called meta sets. META = Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's this kind of ingorance what makes wrobel injore you. How about you actually think about the question for once instead of arguing in my threads.
The question is asking about the scope of the subject there are only a few usable sets. It's to discuss the actual problem not enforce just one belief.
This kinda of attitude doesn't solve Problems but create them.
"What I say is the meta"
I'm beginning to see why you're a former class rep if you get triggered so easily. Literally nothing Liofa said was incorrect or trying to "force a belief."
Nah I just don't like liofa and they know it very well for a long time. I don't feel their statement adds any actual value because they often just ignore other points of view and insult others... or make bets. I am not the only one feeling this way either just look in the thread. Different points of view don't matter to liofa and they never have, so yeah I took a jab, cause I am tired of them walking on my threads and taking jabs first. There is no suger coating , liofa is a elitist. This is freedom of speech when I say that and other players have tagged reps in nastier things. If I deserved to be flagged for that fine, but yeah liofa lets never talk to each other cause we don't get along at all.
Fixed some spelling for you:)
report yourself for me too. Doesn't really add to conversation, but says something about your own character.
What do you mean? I have nothing but love for you:) You are the Donald Trump of ESO:)
Doesn't feel like, sounds like more of a pun to that latest video. But I created this thread with sincere intentions to talk about a concept and how different people feel...just got a little touchy.0
This discussion has been closed.