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Youtube Builds - Can We Stop Please?
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DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »Dont worry. This is going to get addressed. There was a reason I made the thread.
I'm not sure what you mean here. What exactly is going to be addressed, and in what capacity?
Nerfing sets? Buff sets? Nerfing content?
Not sure how they are going to combat the practice of theory crafting and min/maxing outside of homogenizing everything to the point where gear sets loses any benefit over other gear sets, or nerfing Veteran Content to the point where it is only slightly more difficult than normal. Such things will drive away players in the same way you are suggesting the current way things are drives away players. Will it be a pendulum swing? Because I don't see the scales being balanced enough to make everyone happy.
Bro something has to be done. This is beyond ridiculousness. This happens to countless people who are only trying to enjoy the game.
I said a lot of outrageous shyit just to rile you guys up and get what you think and gow you think regarding this issue.
There was a lot of useful information to come out. I will be preparing my note and forwarding them to dev team along with people who want to see the some type of change enacted so people are not forced.
There is ocorse a lot more to the process, but thats the meat and potatoes anyways.
No hard feelings guys
What information are you forwarding to the dev team, lol?... No one is forcing you to run meta setups. You've run into a few jerks, so what? Almost everyone on this thread shares your opinion on it.
And if I may offer a suggestion; In the future, should this happen again, maybe rather than becoming defensive instantly upon being asked to change your build simply tell them that you'd prefer to play using your own build and that if it becomes a problem you'd be happy to switch for the benefit of the group. But that you don't foresee it being an issue. If they aren't ok with that, then just excuse yourself from the group, it really is that simple.Brodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger5 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »Dont worry. This is going to get addressed. There was a reason I made the thread.
I'm not sure what you mean here. What exactly is going to be addressed, and in what capacity?
Nerfing sets? Buff sets? Nerfing content?
Not sure how they are going to combat the practice of theory crafting and min/maxing outside of homogenizing everything to the point where gear sets loses any benefit over other gear sets, or nerfing Veteran Content to the point where it is only slightly more difficult than normal. Such things will drive away players in the same way you are suggesting the current way things are drives away players. Will it be a pendulum swing? Because I don't see the scales being balanced enough to make everyone happy.
Bro something has to be done. This is beyond ridiculousness. This happens to countless people who are only trying to enjoy the game.
I said a lot of outrageous shyit just to rile you guys up and get what you think and gow you think regarding this issue.
There was a lot of useful information to come out. I will be preparing my note and forwarding them to dev team along with people who want to see the some type of change enacted so people are not forced.
There is ocorse a lot more to the process, but thats the meat and potatoes anyways.
No hard feelings guys
What information are you forwarding to the dev team, lol?... No one is forcing you to run meta setups. You've run into a few jerks, so what? Almost everyone on this thread shares your opinion on it.
And if I may offer a suggestion; In the future, should this happen again, maybe rather than becoming defensive instantly upon being asked to change your build simply tell them that you'd prefer to play using your own build and that if it becomes a problem you'd be happy to switch for the benefit of the group. But that you don't foresee it being an issue. If they aren't ok with that, then just excuse yourself from the group, it really is that simple.
I already have those sets and run them.
Unfortunately its not that simple. If were asked to run the set, I probably would have.
The point was he didnt. But more importanty he speciifically stated in a sarcastic snooty way, "YouTube Builds are the only way to go and if youre doing anything other than that, its trash."
Therein lays the problem.
And from what I understand, its happening in non scoreboard runs and even normal trials which is insane.Edited by Lab3360 on December 20, 2018 6:35PM0 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭Just something for everyone to see. This isn't youtube. This isn't my site either. However a guy is making a site where top raiders are uploading their builds for different types of high level veteran content. You can see their builds, they arent keeping it a secret. Here you go.
http://esoraiding.comEdited by Jakx on December 20, 2018 6:37PMJoined September 20131 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭The point was he didnt. But more importanty he speciifically stated in a sarcastic snooty way, "YouTube Builds are the only way to go and if youre doing anything other than that, its trash."
I agree that people being elitist jerks can be problematic, but how would a software developer correct that? A letter to the Dev Team would fall on deaf ears.
There is no way ZOS can force people to behave, they aren't the populations parents. They can take action if what they are saying break the rules of conduct and are provided evidence of such. But if the code of conduct was expanded to include shaming someone's gear, I think that would cause the problem to be even worse.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc3 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »Dont worry. This is going to get addressed. There was a reason I made the thread.
I'm not sure what you mean here. What exactly is going to be addressed, and in what capacity?
Nerfing sets? Buff sets? Nerfing content?
Not sure how they are going to combat the practice of theory crafting and min/maxing outside of homogenizing everything to the point where gear sets loses any benefit over other gear sets, or nerfing Veteran Content to the point where it is only slightly more difficult than normal. Such things will drive away players in the same way you are suggesting the current way things are drives away players. Will it be a pendulum swing? Because I don't see the scales being balanced enough to make everyone happy.
Bro something has to be done. This is beyond ridiculousness. This happens to countless people who are only trying to enjoy the game.
I said a lot of outrageous shyit just to rile you guys up and get what you think and gow you think regarding this issue.
There was a lot of useful information to come out. I will be preparing my note and forwarding them to dev team along with people who want to see the some type of change enacted so people are not forced.
There is ocorse a lot more to the process, but thats the meat and potatoes anyways.
No hard feelings guys
What information are you forwarding to the dev team, lol?... No one is forcing you to run meta setups. You've run into a few jerks, so what? Almost everyone on this thread shares your opinion on it.
And if I may offer a suggestion; In the future, should this happen again, maybe rather than becoming defensive instantly upon being asked to change your build simply tell them that you'd prefer to play using your own build and that if it becomes a problem you'd be happy to switch for the benefit of the group. But that you don't foresee it being an issue. If they aren't ok with that, then just excuse yourself from the group, it really is that simple.
I already have those sets and run them.
Unfortunately its not that simple. If were asked to run the set, I probably would have.
The point was he didnt. But more importanty he speciifically stated in a sarcastic snooty way, "YouTube Builds are the only way to go and if youre doing anything other than that, its trash."
Therein lays the problem.
And from what I understand, its happening in non scoreboard runs and even normal trials which is insane.
I agree with you. I'm sorry you had this experience and the person in question was definitely in the wrong.I'm sure that you're not the only person to experience this. But I think that you're going about solving it in the wrong way. In actually, a majority of pugs go smoothly despite gear or build diversity. Rather than attempting to handle everything with game changes, I think we're better off trying to change people's attitudes. And I think it begins with people that get put in situations like yourself.
I think you'll be hard pressed to come across someone who will openly admit they want everyone to run strict build setups in a pug run. So when you do, talk it out, compromise. If they can't see reason then simply go about your business. But I think you'll find most people, when spoken to with respect, will see your point of view and be ok with you running whatever you like.Edited by DjMuscleboy02 on December 20, 2018 6:43PMBrodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »Dont worry. This is going to get addressed. There was a reason I made the thread.
I'm not sure what you mean here. What exactly is going to be addressed, and in what capacity?
Nerfing sets? Buff sets? Nerfing content?
Not sure how they are going to combat the practice of theory crafting and min/maxing outside of homogenizing everything to the point where gear sets loses any benefit over other gear sets, or nerfing Veteran Content to the point where it is only slightly more difficult than normal. Such things will drive away players in the same way you are suggesting the current way things are drives away players. Will it be a pendulum swing? Because I don't see the scales being balanced enough to make everyone happy.
Bro something has to be done. This is beyond ridiculousness. This happens to countless people who are only trying to enjoy the game.
I said a lot of outrageous shyit just to rile you guys up and get what you think and gow you think regarding this issue.
There was a lot of useful information to come out. I will be preparing my note and forwarding them to dev team along with people who want to see the some type of change enacted so people are not forced.
There is ocorse a lot more to the process, but thats the meat and potatoes anyways.
No hard feelings guys
What information are you forwarding to the dev team, lol?... No one is forcing you to run meta setups. You've run into a few jerks, so what? Almost everyone on this thread shares your opinion on it.
And if I may offer a suggestion; In the future, should this happen again, maybe rather than becoming defensive instantly upon being asked to change your build simply tell them that you'd prefer to play using your own build and that if it becomes a problem you'd be happy to switch for the benefit of the group. But that you don't foresee it being an issue. If they aren't ok with that, then just excuse yourself from the group, it really is that simple.
I already have those sets and run them.
Unfortunately its not that simple. If were asked to run the set, I probably would have.
The point was he didnt. But more importanty he speciifically stated in a sarcastic snooty way, "YouTube Builds are the only way to go and if youre doing anything other than that, its trash."
Therein lays the problem.
And from what I understand, its happening in non scoreboard runs and even normal trials which is insane.
I agree with you. I'm sorry you had this experience and the person in question was definitely in the wrong.I'm sure that you're not the only person to experience this. But I think that you're going about solving it in the wrong way. In actually, a majority of pugs go smoothly despite gear or build diversity. Rather than attempting to handle everything with game changes, I think we're better off trying to change people's attitudes. And I think it begins with people that get put in situations like yourself.
I think you'll be hard pressed to come across someone who will openly admit they want everyone to run strict build setups in a pug run. So when you do, talk it out, compromise. If they can't see reason then simply go about your business. But I think you'll find most people, when spoken to with respect, will see your point of view and be ok with you running whatever you like.
Its honestly the 1st time I have ever run into that. I have heard people running into it. I didnt think it was an actual thing. I have played this game since launch. So, it was a real suprise to come across this.
Thank you brotherEdited by Lab3360 on December 20, 2018 6:48PM0 -
an, they got yall thinking sets make your build better. Being naked gives you the ability to one shot bosses and survive millions pf damage.
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭HallowedUndead wrote: »an, they got yall thinking sets make your build better. Being naked gives you the ability to one shot bosses and survive millions pf damage.
Lol0 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭HallowedUndead wrote: »an, they got yall thinking sets make your build better. Being naked gives you the ability to one shot bosses and survive millions pf damage.
Can confirm, all end game pvers unequip all armor before engaging in combatEdited by DjMuscleboy02 on December 20, 2018 6:51PMBrodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger3 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »The point was he didnt. But more importanty he speciifically stated in a sarcastic snooty way, "YouTube Builds are the only way to go and if youre doing anything other than that, its trash."
I agree that people being elitist jerks can be problematic, but how would a software developer correct that? A letter to the Dev Team would fall on deaf ears.
There is no way ZOS can force people to behave, they aren't the populations parents. They can take action if what they are saying break the rules of conduct and are provided evidence of such. But if the code of conduct was expanded to include shaming someone's gear, I think that would cause the problem to be even worse.
I should have retrieved his name and alerted the community. I could have handled it better. Lol. I was more shocked than anything else.0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭Noob? Not hardly. I played throughout beta and since launch with a few vacations. Yet I will say that Alcast has been of great help to me in both creating and refining some of my builds. Maybe some of you haters are just jealous.
Unless you have all the time in the world, and unlimited funds to be able to test all combinations of sets, then its nice to have a starting point. Most good players know the best sets for max single target, aoe damage, etc., the few best healing sets, whatever. Sure you can spend time testing different ones, but in the end you will come back to a few sets that work best in certain situations. I dont see why all the Alcast hate. He doesnt claim that his builds are gospel. He shows what works for him, gives options for other sets to use in certain situations, different skills, how to boost sustain, etc. The reason so many people use some form of his builds is because they are pretty good. If they sucked, we wouldnt be having this conversation would we? But I guess haters are gonna hate.3 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unless you have all the time in the world, and unlimited funds to be able to test all combinations of sets, then its nice to have a starting point.
Fextralife!
Google which weight you are looking for. For example google, "ESO Heavy Sets" and go to the Fextralife link. Scroll through them, find something that you want to try out, see where it drops, and do a little farming.
I do this quite often because I like to see how things work on each class so I know how to help my friends who aren't interested in the research as much as I am.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »remove classes, and it will stop
This would not stop this in any manner. It would just turn ESO into a very boring game with one build for everyone.4 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
Umm, that’s because relequin and sororia are so strong. Have you tried them, and if so, why would you go back to something that doesn’t work as well? Sure its fun to try different sets and combinations, but if you are, say, a damage dealer, wouldn’t you want to try and do as much damage as possible, especially in a group situation where others are counting on you? If youre running solo, then sure, mess around with different things, experiment.TeamSeinfeld wrote: »I completely agree. I think YouTube guides are good starting points, though. Helped me understand rotation/ weaving, etc. I run dungeons and trials in PUGS, so I don’t have experience from being in a guild. But I just play my character, never would think of commenting on another’s build in a negative way, usually do just fine. And have a good time, whether we speed run it, or wipe a million times. Love trying different skills, sets, etc
And that exactly what they are good for. A starting point. Too many peoole use it as
"The End All Be All"
Alkosh Tank
Sororia DpS
Healer Spell power Cure
I mean come on!
Again, I agree.
I used to love Xynode's build...they were diffrent from meta usually but still just as strong. Good enough to do vet content comfortably. No, they didn't squeeze out every last drop of DPS possible, but still more than enough to complete content at the highest levels.
But even he's recently started putting Relequen and Sororia on all his builds...or, most of them, anyway.
Just, disappointing to me. He was always the other side of meta...now he's turning into Alcast light. His builds are still good, but the direction he's going isn't what he started off as. He's always saying "Remember where you came from" too...sad to see...1 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
Obviously he is showcasing single target builds to show what the damage capability is, especially when parsing. Any ranged dps running zaan is ... well ... probably not doing it right. But of course zaan is the best single target (close range) monster set, so naturally most/all high dps videos show people running zaan. Some have ranged dps running trap beast, which always makes me chuckle. But that’s not to say the builds don’t work. With a tweak here and there, skoria for zaan, a self heal for channeled acceleration, and you still have a strong build. Maybe a couple K less dps than the video parse.Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.
I might agree with you on the lazy player part, but the biggest mistake that newer players make in this game is to follow Alcast's build to a tee...His builds (Gear1) are to maximize DPS when you are grouped up with some of the best players in this game in end game trial content...when newer players try too use his Siroria/SpellStrat/Zaan's build and can't manage a moderate size add pull without dying because they didn't slot a self heal...and don't know that the reason is that this is strictly a single target build and they may be not running with uber healers and tanks...therein lies the problem...
Any bis build is situational...and if not running with the likes of Hodor...running Alcast's gear1 builds are usually not optimal for run of the mill content that 95% of this community participates in...0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This idea that only builds from youtube From Alcast and Asian are the only builds that can work in the game, is an assertion of idiocy.
I only got that far in the original post. If you hold that view then feel free to ignore all Youtube and other recommended builds - as 99% of the playerbase do.2 -
CultOfMMO✭✭✭The people who post builds have at the very least cleared all the vet trial hardmodes content in the game with their own builds, alcast even holds several word record scores.
If you really have something to prove, you can show the community all trial hardmodes can be cleared with "off meta non sheep" builds.
Yes people who can't think for themselves is idiotic, but so is people who think a forum post has enough substance to really convince anyonevHoF HM 202k Tick-Tock Tormentor (Stamblade)
vAS HM 111k Immortal Redeemer (Magplar)
vCR HM 129k Gryphon Heart (Magblade/plar)
vSS HM 245k NA 2nd Godslayer (Stamcro)
Magblade vMA 601k6 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Youtube builds also get certain sets and skills nerfed. ZOS likes to follow what it thinks is the meta for some reason and nerf it.
There was a time where it was almost a running joke that as soon as deltia posted a build, ZOS would nerf what made that build work.
ZOS should be banned from watching youtube build videos.6 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alcast is one of the only youtubers that makes an effort to put out beginner and beginner-friendly builds. He fills a gap that absolutely needs to be filled in order for this game’s newer players to be able to catch up to their more seasoned friends. He’s also a top tier PvE player and one of the first to test things on the PTS.
If someone is telling you to use an alcast build it’s because they don’t have faith in your current build. If they don’t have faith in your current build it’s because they perceive you as holding the group back. They can’t see what your build is, this isn’t WoW. They can only see what you do.
So if someone tells you to use an alcast build, you should probably take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why they think you need help. It’s probably because you actually do.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp11 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »Bro something has to be done. This is beyond ridiculousness. This happens to countless people who are only trying to enjoy the game.
That is sort of the catch 22 though.
Person A (Does not like to be forced into a meta) does not like being told to play the game a certain way.
Person B (is a competitive raider, uses the meta) does not like people showing up with questionable builds.
These people both want to play their way. How do you reconcile the two?
This is a question that plagues Online Gaming development. How do you make sure everyone can complete all the content in the game, while also making end game challenging enough for the competitive players, but still accessible to the casual players? I personally haven't seen it, admittedly I have not played every online game though. If this has been done successfully, perhaps there is a model ZOS can observe and learn from.
First I am amazed this is still ongoing...
But I think Werewolf implementation was a nice way to bridge the gap. Also light attack in general do more damage then they should.0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »remove classes, and it will stop
buahhahahahaha
I played a game like that.
.....
You ran X build or got kicked yo. It wasn't even different per class. Just everyone ran the same thing.Edited by karekiz on December 20, 2018 10:33PM0 -
BooPerScOOper✭✭✭WOW.. You have zero room to post about any "Tubers" builds... All you're doing is saltranting.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/448576/colors-of-damage-numbers-what-do-they-mean#latest
The "Meta" is there because the top testers all come to the same conclusions on gear for how the game is played. For the top players, it's skip as many mechanics as possible to cut the time, get the highest score as possible, to put on Youtube, to get sponsorship or ad/click dollars, to offset games purchases, cost of living or make a living; and yes, there are real people that make a living playing video games.
3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »remove classes, and it will stop
This would not stop this in any manner. It would just turn ESO into a very boring game with one build for everyone.
that is false.
what you have Right Now is one build for each class.
if classes were removed there would then be choices abound in the thousands.
Edited by Gilvoth on December 21, 2018 12:27AM0 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So much to absorb in this thread.
Op I agree that toxicity is always bad, but we meet those people everyday in game or out. As hard as it is, just ignore them and move on.
As a tank (you seem to have many different flavors of tank from your previous posts) you should be first in line for most queues so finding a new group shouldn't be hard.
On the topic of off-meta builds I personally love trying different sets and abilities but it is a huge investment for us on consoles. Since we lack the pts we can't readily test things without a hefty in game cost as others have mentioned. When I have a new build idea I will check out if any of the content creators have anything similar simply because I know I may not have thought of everything.
In that line of reasoning, I also keep a set of "meta" gear ready for my toons when I feel like jumping into harder group content. I'm not going to take my hybrid dk dd or hybrid sorc dd into vet content and just expect everyone else in the group to be super excited to "see what it can do." Same is true for your off-meta tanking.
All in all it's finding the balance between playing how you like and being a good asset to your group.
Perhaps you could start your own guild for off-meta builds and end game runs. That would be something I and probably many others would take interest in."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard2 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »So much to absorb in this thread.
Op I agree that toxicity is always bad, but we meet those people everyday in game or out. As hard as it is, just ignore them and move on.
As a tank (you seem to have many different flavors of tank from your previous posts) you should be first in line for most queues so finding a new group shouldn't be hard.
On the topic of off-meta builds I personally love trying different sets and abilities but it is a huge investment for us on consoles. Since we lack the pts we can't readily test things without a hefty in game cost as others have mentioned. When I have a new build idea I will check out if any of the content creators have anything similar simply because I know I may not have thought of everything.
In that line of reasoning, I also keep a set of "meta" gear ready for my toons when I feel like jumping into harder group content. I'm not going to take my hybrid dk dd or hybrid sorc dd into vet content and just expect everyone else in the group to be super excited to "see what it can do." Same is true for your off-meta tanking.
All in all it's finding the balance between playing how you like and being a good asset to your group.
Perhaps you could start your own guild for off-meta builds and end game runs. That would be something I and probably many others would take interest in.
Actually there was a group on forums like this that OP might like. Those people who did 18 axes and axe kill.3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭id say 1 (ONE) out of every 300 people has a slightly different and strange build.
right now every single class i fight has the same exact build, thousands of people using the same build that their class uses.
its boring.
if you remove classes it would allow for evey person i fight (in the thousands) to have a different build.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »id say 1 (ONE) out of every 300 people has a slightly different and strange build.
right now every single class i fight has the same exact build, thousands of people using the same build that their class uses.
its boring.
if you remove classes it would allow for evey person i fight (in the thousands) to have a different build.
pssh... whispers in ear, support the spell crafting movement instead...0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »id say 1 (ONE) out of every 300 people has a slightly different and strange build.
right now every single class i fight has the same exact build, thousands of people using the same build that their class uses.
its boring.
if you remove classes it would allow for evey person i fight (in the thousands) to have a different build.
pssh... whispers in ear, support the spell crafting movement instead...
you speak as if it has a chance at reality.
is it possible that it will be launched?
last i heard from the devs they said it was shelved permanently.0
This discussion has been closed.