Youtube Builds - Can We Stop Please?
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Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.
I mostly agree. I use his builds for alts that I don't know how to play and don't want to invest time in. They worked fine for the undaunted event. I wouldn't consider sticking with them for a prolonged period of time without doing my own testing though.
I think lazy is too harsh. Time and efficiency are important and using a cookie cutter build is like making a microwave meal when you just need to eat and move on. It has it's place.11 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »If I have to hear "Why arnt you wearing Ebon and Alkosh" One more time. Im gonna, IM GONNA ... probably do nothing, cause I really couldnt care less.
That is a different issue. Why is DPS burn the most important way to play? What happened to tactics or rewarding points for doing something different?
#pinballMachice
Exactly. I wont run with people like that at all. Tanks job is not to buff the group. But some how this has become expected.
Its like dps is the only role that matters.
Just say NO!Edited by Lab3360 on December 20, 2018 12:40AM2 -
LiberatorSam✭✭✭LiberatorSam wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I am thinking why in high-end tanking double S&B considered "must have" etc... with ice staff on one of bars you receive more powerful 2H crusher enchantment, so for min-maxers S&B + ice staff should be default?
It is S+B + lightning. S+B x2 or S+B + ice for learning/beginner tanks for end game content. You can do whatever you want in normal, I main tanked nCR+3 in my 7 medium 20k health StamsOrc runner/crafter.
Lol. Bet youre max cp too. Lmao
You just treat it as like tanking vCR+3, cuz it hit that hard in vCR.
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Matchimus✭✭✭✭✭Surely 9 times out of 10 a skilled player with average equipment will be better to have in your party than an average player with the best equipment?
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Krayl✭✭✭✭✭
And yes, I am aggressive. Im going to be aggressive when it come to this topic. Someone has to stand up. Too many people being bullied because of
Youtube Buildz.
As far as tanks being the last one standing. Wow are you wrong. Seen lots ofnyoutune tanks go down. Also when you're pugging as a tank and youre running with different guild than youre own, youre not always going to lead and command. Did you not here the part of off tanking btw?
I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.
I'm "offended" (not really, but there's a reason I replied so maybe just a bit?) because when you resort to name-calling and bailing on the 10 other people in the group with a snarky comment, you're doing your message a disservice. It doesn't give you a very strong platform to complain about the 'bullying" of others. In fact it's just going to make people think that your b-hurt is that you're defensive about your build and probably force them to look at "youtune" builds even more.
Sure, tanks go down. Living a long time when your group is dead doesn't mean squat. In fact it probably means you should adjust your build for more group utility and do a better job of calling your shots and using your skills to keep your group alive.
I pug often as a tank, and if I see there is a problem with mechanics, I will speak up and try to correct them. Maybe if you did this instead of getting upset about some criticism, those who's minds you hope to change (not mine, I agree with your sentiment, just not your delivery) would take note and learn something that day. Instead you've done more harm than good to your cause.
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »If I have to hear "Why arnt you wearing Ebon and Alkosh" One more time. Im gonna, IM GONNA ... probably do nothing, cause I really couldnt care less.
That is a different issue. Why is DPS burn the most important way to play? What happened to tactics or rewarding points for doing something different?
#pinballMachice
Exactly. I wont run with people like that at all. Tanks job is not to buff the group. But some how this has become expected.
Its like dps is the only role that matters.
Just say NO!
It's not the players fault but an issue of design to be addressed. There needs to be rewards for doing things different like in other games @ZOS_Finn5 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭LiberatorSam wrote: »LiberatorSam wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I am thinking why in high-end tanking double S&B considered "must have" etc... with ice staff on one of bars you receive more powerful 2H crusher enchantment, so for min-maxers S&B + ice staff should be default?
It is S+B + lightning. S+B x2 or S+B + ice for learning/beginner tanks for end game content. You can do whatever you want in normal, I main tanked nCR+3 in my 7 medium 20k health StamsOrc runner/crafter.
Lol. Bet youre max cp too. Lmao
You just treat it as like tanking vCR+3, cuz it hit that hard in vCR.
Yeah, but you can do a whole lot of crazy with max cp. And thats ok too. Even better.2 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Surely 9 times out of 10 a skilled player with average equipment will be better to have in your party than an average player with the best equipment?
9 out of 10 times a good player will have the best equipment, and an average player won't."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 43310 -
ThumbtackJake✭✭✭Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research.
Yeah! Sherman's builds are where it's at!Long term filthy casual.5 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiberatorSam wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I am thinking why in high-end tanking double S&B considered "must have" etc... with ice staff on one of bars you receive more powerful 2H crusher enchantment, so for min-maxers S&B + ice staff should be default?
It is S+B + lightning. S+B x2 or S+B + ice for learning/beginner tanks for end game content. You can do whatever you want in normal, I main tanked nCR+3 in my 7 medium 20k health StamsOrc runner/crafter.
I mean I'm that Alcast follower which OP describes> though i adjust his builds slightly, still i consider them as baseline for my trial characters and also I see some questionable moments there:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/
No engulfing flames, but blood altar, absorb magic..
Can you share that build with S&B + lightning? looks reasonable if all magdps are dual inferno0 -
TeamSeinfeld✭✭✭I completely agree. I think YouTube guides are good starting points, though. Helped me understand rotation/ weaving, etc. I run dungeons and trials in PUGS, so I don’t have experience from being in a guild. But I just play my character, never would think of commenting on another’s build in a negative way, usually do just fine. And have a good time, whether we speed run it, or wipe a million times. Love trying different skills, sets, etc1
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭
And yes, I am aggressive. Im going to be aggressive when it come to this topic. Someone has to stand up. Too many people being bullied because of
Youtube Buildz.
As far as tanks being the last one standing. Wow are you wrong. Seen lots ofnyoutune tanks go down. Also when you're pugging as a tank and youre running with different guild than youre own, youre not always going to lead and command. Did you not here the part of off tanking btw?
I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.
I'm "offended" (not really, but there's a reason I replied so maybe just a bit?) because when you resort to name-calling and bailing on the 10 other people in the group with a snarky comment, you're doing your message a disservice. It doesn't give you a very strong platform to complain about the 'bullying" of others. In fact it's just going to make people think that your b-hurt is that you're defensive about your build and probably force them to look at "youtune" builds even more.
Sure, tanks go down. Living a long time when your group is dead doesn't mean squat. In fact it probably means you should adjust your build for more group utility and do a better job of calling your shots and using your skills to keep your group alive.
I pug often as a tank, and if I see there is a problem with mechanics, I will speak up and try to correct them. Maybe if you did this instead of getting upset about some criticism, those who's minds you hope to change (not mine, I agree with your sentiment, just not your delivery) would take note and learn something that day. Instead you've done more harm than good to your cause.
Well, guaging from my experience in life, these people were not going to listen to anyone but him. I was onscene. You were not. In vet trials, dungeons I have helped explain mechs to a lot of different people to the detriment of my friends and guild mates and myself and was ok with it.
I determined this group was not wort the time or effort. Hopefully tbe last comment I made woke someone up. Sort of a cerebral time bomb as time experince the wall prohibiting progress.
Not everyone is worth it bro. Time is invaluable. Give it to those who you feel are deserving.Edited by Lab3360 on December 20, 2018 12:53AM6 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »If I have to hear "Why arnt you wearing Ebon and Alkosh" One more time. Im gonna, IM GONNA ... probably do nothing, cause I really couldnt care less.
That is a different issue. Why is DPS burn the most important way to play? What happened to tactics or rewarding points for doing something different?
#pinballMachice
Exactly. I wont run with people like that at all. Tanks job is not to buff the group. But some how this has become expected.
Its like dps is the only role that matters.
Just say NO!
It's not the players fault but an issue of design to be addressed. There needs to be rewards for doing things different like in other games @ZOS_Finn
I would love to see that. But, how on earth could something like that be implemented.
1 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭TeamSeinfeld wrote: »I completely agree. I think YouTube guides are good starting points, though. Helped me understand rotation/ weaving, etc. I run dungeons and trials in PUGS, so I don’t have experience from being in a guild. But I just play my character, never would think of commenting on another’s build in a negative way, usually do just fine. And have a good time, whether we speed run it, or wipe a million times. Love trying different skills, sets, etc
And that exactly what they are good for. A starting point. Too many peoole use it as
"The End All Be All"
Alkosh Tank
Sororia DpS
Healer Spell power Cure
I mean come on!0 -
theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Noob? Not hardly. I played throughout beta and since launch with a few vacations. Yet I will say that Alcast has been of great help to me in both creating and refining some of my builds. Maybe some of you haters are just jealous.9 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭
I wish. Before the first pull they said "ice tanks are useless"
He responded with "I've done this a bunch of times, I'm even wearing the title now"
They said no and kicked him.
Its not even that uncommon of a build,
Snb front, staff back.
I would be willing to bet they didnt finish.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »If I have to hear "Why arnt you wearing Ebon and Alkosh" One more time. Im gonna, IM GONNA ... probably do nothing, cause I really couldnt care less.
That is a different issue. Why is DPS burn the most important way to play? What happened to tactics or rewarding points for doing something different?
#pinballMachice
Yeah, its like the game should be called DPSO0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Noob? Not hardly. I played throughout beta and since launch with a few vacations. Yet I will say that Alcast has been of great help to me in both creating and refining some of my builds. Maybe some of you haters are just jealous.
Lol. Jealous of not thinking for ourselves? That makes sense.
For the record, "I have nothing against Alcast or any content provider.
I happen to really like Alcast. He is a very nice guy. Class Act!
That should not prohibit people from being kicked or bullied because they are not using one of his builds or a
"Youtube Build"
If anything, the hate is directed at people who design theyre own builds even if they are more effective.Edited by Lab3360 on December 20, 2018 1:03AM2 -
LiberatorSam✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »LiberatorSam wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I am thinking why in high-end tanking double S&B considered "must have" etc... with ice staff on one of bars you receive more powerful 2H crusher enchantment, so for min-maxers S&B + ice staff should be default?
It is S+B + lightning. S+B x2 or S+B + ice for learning/beginner tanks for end game content. You can do whatever you want in normal, I main tanked nCR+3 in my 7 medium 20k health StamsOrc runner/crafter.
I mean I'm that Alcast follower which OP describes> though i adjust his builds slightly, still i consider them as baseline for my trial characters and also I see some questionable moments there:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/
No engulfing flames, but blood altar, absorb magic..
Can you share that build with S&B + lightning? looks reasonable if all magdps are dual inferno
There is no “build” for tanks, generally you go Alkosh (jewels + weps) + Torugs/Ebon + Lord warden as a “default”, but you should adjust your build for each trial. Must have skills are maybe sb taunt, low slash, inner fire, war horn, obsidian shield. The rest are flex spots for peosonal preference (eg. dragon scale or balance) and specific trial adjustments.2 -
Matchimus✭✭✭✭✭
Yes...to a degree. Getting the best equipment in this game can take time so you have to make the most of the 'best' equipment available to you at the time. My original point is the skill of players are sometimes overlooked in preference to their to the equipment.
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »If I have to hear "Why arnt you wearing Ebon and Alkosh" One more time. Im gonna, IM GONNA ... probably do nothing, cause I really couldnt care less.
That is a different issue. Why is DPS burn the most important way to play? What happened to tactics or rewarding points for doing something different?
#pinballMachice
Exactly. I wont run with people like that at all. Tanks job is not to buff the group. But some how this has become expected.
Its like dps is the only role that matters.
Just say NO!
It's not the players fault but an issue of design to be addressed. There needs to be rewards for doing things different like in other games @ZOS_Finn
I would love to see that. But, how on earth could something like that be implemented.
See my experience tells me you simply have to reward points for doing different actions. This will make fights interesting new and old. It will fix issue in people like liking uitity or skills offered by game. This would be good for competitive and non-competitive players.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭
Yes...to a degree. Getting the best equipment in this game can take time so you have to make the most of the 'best' equipment available to you at the time. My original point is the skill of players are sometimes overlooked in preference to their to the equipment.
Bingo0 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.
I might agree with you on the lazy player part, but the biggest mistake that newer players make in this game is to follow Alcast's build to a tee...His builds (Gear1) are to maximize DPS when you are grouped up with some of the best players in this game in end game trial content...when newer players try too use his Siroria/SpellStrat/Zaan's build and can't manage a moderate size add pull without dying because they didn't slot a self heal...and don't know that the reason is that this is strictly a single target build and they may be not running with uber healers and tanks...therein lies the problem...
Any bis build is situational...and if not running with the likes of Hodor...running Alcast's gear1 builds are usually not optimal for run of the mill content that 95% of this community participates in...2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »If I have to hear "Why arnt you wearing Ebon and Alkosh" One more time. Im gonna, IM GONNA ... probably do nothing, cause I really couldnt care less.
That is a different issue. Why is DPS burn the most important way to play? What happened to tactics or rewarding points for doing something different?
#pinballMachice
Exactly. I wont run with people like that at all. Tanks job is not to buff the group. But some how this has become expected.
Its like dps is the only role that matters.
Just say NO!
It's not the players fault but an issue of design to be addressed. There needs to be rewards for doing things different like in other games @ZOS_Finn
I would love to see that. But, how on earth could something like that be implemented.
See my experience tells me you simply have to reward points for doing different actions. This will make fights interesting new and old. It will fix issue in people like liking uitity or skills offered by game. This would be good for competitive and non-competitive players.
Then the question would become, would Zos be willing to design a system to support it. Thats a real undertaking right theire. One which I believe should be built into a game from development stage.
Atm, its all about dps, and it sucks.0 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Console has no PTS , we can't do endless testing , that's why I have to believe those famous youtubers result , like Alcast and Asiangod to save a lot of time .
ZOS , Is it possible to add this function for console players ? Or we have no values at all ?
The price we test each build is painful at live .3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiberatorSam wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »LiberatorSam wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I am thinking why in high-end tanking double S&B considered "must have" etc... with ice staff on one of bars you receive more powerful 2H crusher enchantment, so for min-maxers S&B + ice staff should be default?
It is S+B + lightning. S+B x2 or S+B + ice for learning/beginner tanks for end game content. You can do whatever you want in normal, I main tanked nCR+3 in my 7 medium 20k health StamsOrc runner/crafter.
I mean I'm that Alcast follower which OP describes> though i adjust his builds slightly, still i consider them as baseline for my trial characters and also I see some questionable moments there:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/
No engulfing flames, but blood altar, absorb magic..
Can you share that build with S&B + lightning? looks reasonable if all magdps are dual inferno
There is no “build” for tanks, generally you go Alkosh (jewels + weps) + Torugs/Ebon + Lord warden as a “default”, but you should adjust your build for each trial. Must have skills are maybe sb taunt, low slash, inner fire, war horn, obsidian shield. The rest are flex spots for peosonal preference (eg. dragon scale or balance) and specific trial adjustments.
Well, you know all this is list is like axiom and baseline any tank uses, but lightning backbar was something new fro me, so I was looking for info for additional insight. Thanks for idea anyway, I'll google about that lightning thing.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.
I might agree with you on the lazy player part, but the biggest mistake that newer players make in this game is to follow Alcast's build to a tee...His builds (Gear1) are to maximize DPS when you are grouped up with some of the best players in this game in end game trial content...when newer players try too use his Siroria/SpellStrat/Zaan's build and can't manage a moderate size add pull without dying because they didn't slot a self heal...and don't know that the reason is that this is strictly a single target build and they may be not running with uber healers and tanks...therein lies the problem...
Any bis build is situational...and if not running with the likes of Hodor...running Alcast's gear1 builds are usually not optimal for run of the mill content that 95% of this community participates in...
Very true. This is why these builds should be looked at as illustrative or demo only or as a starting point "to learn."
I agree0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TeamSeinfeld wrote: »I completely agree. I think YouTube guides are good starting points, though. Helped me understand rotation/ weaving, etc. I run dungeons and trials in PUGS, so I don’t have experience from being in a guild. But I just play my character, never would think of commenting on another’s build in a negative way, usually do just fine. And have a good time, whether we speed run it, or wipe a million times. Love trying different skills, sets, etc
And that exactly what they are good for. A starting point. Too many peoole use it as
"The End All Be All"
Alkosh Tank
Sororia DpS
Healer Spell power Cure
I mean come on!
Again, I agree.
I used to love Xynode's build...they were diffrent from meta usually but still just as strong. Good enough to do vet content comfortably. No, they didn't squeeze out every last drop of DPS possible, but still more than enough to complete content at the highest levels.
But even he's recently started putting Relequen and Sororia on all his builds...or, most of them, anyway.
Just, disappointing to me. He was always the other side of meta...now he's turning into Alcast light. His builds are still good, but the direction he's going isn't what he started off as. He's always saying "Remember where you came from" too...sad to see...3 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Console has no PTS , we can't do endless testing , that's why I have to believe those famous youtubers result , like Alcast and Asiangod to save a lot of time .
ZOS , Is it possible to add this function for console players ? Or we have no values at all ?
The price we test each build is painful at live .
Thats a very very valid point. We cant just endlessly add gear and Cp, and skill points and every skill known to man.
But, too, this is why Youtube Builds cant be accepted a End al Be All, especially for console players. The frame rate is beyond abysmal.1 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I spend quite a bit of time developing my builds. Idgaf if anyone thinks they're trash. If it were, I wouldnt use it.3
This discussion has been closed.