Youtube Builds - Can We Stop Please?

LiberatorSam

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

LiberatorSam wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

LiberatorSam wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I am thinking why in high-end tanking double S&B considered "must have" etc... with ice staff on one of bars you receive more powerful 2H crusher enchantment, so for min-maxers S&B + ice staff should be default?

It is S+B + lightning. S+B x2 or S+B + ice for learning/beginner tanks for end game content. You can do whatever you want in normal, I main tanked nCR+3 in my 7 medium 20k health StamsOrc runner/crafter.

I mean I'm that Alcast follower which OP describes> though i adjust his builds slightly, still i consider them as baseline for my trial characters and also I see some questionable moments there:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

No engulfing flames, but blood altar, absorb magic..

Can you share that build with S&B + lightning? looks reasonable if all magdps are dual inferno

There is no “build” for tanks, generally you go Alkosh (jewels + weps) + Torugs/Ebon + Lord warden as a “default”, but you should adjust your build for each trial. Must have skills are maybe sb taunt, low slash, inner fire, war horn, obsidian shield. The rest are flex spots for peosonal preference (eg. dragon scale or balance) and specific trial adjustments.

Well, you know all this is list is like axiom and baseline any tank uses, but lightning backbar was something new fro me, so I was looking for info for additional insight. Thanks for idea anyway, I'll google about that lightning thing.

Ah basically you just use a lightning back bar with infuse crusher and slot blockage. This is more of a advance build, cuz if you get caught on you lightning bar at the wrong time you are basically dead. Hence some tanks use a ice back bar to transition into a lightning back.

dazee

I'll take tips from people like altcast and learn from how they build becuase I know theyre good at what they do. but I'll never sacrifice my character concept just to use a build I found somewhere, I'd much rather learn how to make my own build work.

jazsper77

Lol OP going to every build thread trashing YouTube. Get a life dude if it helps players who are busy in REAL LIFE to get build help who are you to judge.
Further more if I’m doing HM content I know how long it should take. The group doesn’t have 6hrs to clear content with everyone’s my build is the best group.
Sorry your build MAY WORK but I don’t have ALL DAY AND NITE to complete the content.

I think someone is just jealous that he got called out and further I guarantee you wiped and got kicked so your pissed.

sevomd69

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

LiberatorSam wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I am thinking why in high-end tanking double S&B considered "must have" etc... with ice staff on one of bars you receive more powerful 2H crusher enchantment, so for min-maxers S&B + ice staff should be default?

It is S+B + lightning. S+B x2 or S+B + ice for learning/beginner tanks for end game content. You can do whatever you want in normal, I main tanked nCR+3 in my 7 medium 20k health StamsOrc runner/crafter.

I mean I'm that Alcast follower which OP describes> though i adjust his builds slightly, still i consider them as baseline for my trial characters and also I see some questionable moments there:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

No engulfing flames, but blood altar, absorb magic..

Can you share that build with S&B + lightning? looks reasonable if all magdps are dual inferno

Even he says that his builds should be used as a guideline and should be altered to fit how you play the game...

MartiniDaniels

Kel wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

TeamSeinfeld wrote: »

I completely agree. I think YouTube guides are good starting points, though. Helped me understand rotation/ weaving, etc. I run dungeons and trials in PUGS, so I don’t have experience from being in a guild. But I just play my character, never would think of commenting on another’s build in a negative way, usually do just fine. And have a good time, whether we speed run it, or wipe a million times. Love trying different skills, sets, etc

And that exactly what they are good for. A starting point. Too many peoole use it as
"The End All Be All"

Alkosh Tank
Sororia DpS
Healer Spell power Cure

I mean come on!

Again, I agree.
I used to love Xynode's build...they were diffrent from meta usually but still just as strong. Good enough to do vet content comfortably. No, they didn't squeeze out every last drop of DPS possible, but still more than enough to complete content at the highest levels.

But even he's recently started putting Relequen and Sororia on all his builds...or, most of them, anyway.

Just, disappointing to me. He was always the other side of meta...now he's turning into Alcast light. His builds are still good, but the direction he's going isn't what he started off as. He's always saying "Remember where you came from" too...sad to see...

Maybe problem is not in youtubers, but in devs who release such OP sets like Sororia and Relequen? (reason is obvious, makes Summerset = must have). If you look at AY it's only slightly better then other stam sets, but Relequen is a monster..

Same for horn.. Horn so powerful so any other tank or healer ulti is for only very specific use..
Same for inferno staff..
Same for S&B against frost staff.. there is no cheap and fast taunt/fracture on ice so build without S&B (i.e full magtank) will always be a cripple in comparison to build with S&B.. inner range cost 4k just for taunt and laughable non-guaranteed synergy. Why not include at least major fracture to inner rage so paired with ele drain it will be viable alternative to pierce armor? devs don't care..
Same for enchantments which much more powerful then poisons though poisons are more expensive.. maybe with some specific sets like moon hunter you can do something but result is questionable..
Same for bow skill line and vma bow.. etc

dazee

jazsper77 wrote: »

Lol OP going to every build thread trashing YouTube. Get a life dude if it helps players who are busy in REAL LIFE to get build help who are you to judge.
Further more if I’m doing HM content I know how long it should take. The group doesn’t have 6hrs to clear content with everyone’s my build is the best group.
Sorry your build MAY WORK but I don’t have ALL DAY AND NITE to complete the content.

I think someone is just jealous that he got called out and further I guarantee you wiped and got kicked so your pissed.

Wow man, take it easy, he's understandably upset that his perfectly viable build got him yelled at cuz he wasn't using the meta that every brainless sheeple and their mother uses. do you really want to out yourself as one of those?

RobDaCool

I'll admit when I first started playing I glanced over a few of his videos and noticed all his builds are the same; stamina class uses Redgard, dual wield + bow and basically the same skillset (add in class specific skills).

Didn't take me long to realize it wasn't for me and to just make up my own build. LOL

Delsanab14_ESO

I'm still trying to find a pet sorc build that I like that doesn't use flame staffs or weaving and can reach the higher dps. I have one that almost can but ehh.

CP builds tho.. that's what I really hate. setting up the right CP and such is just tedious and I like using a guide that I can slightly tweak.

jetplane_18

I know this is a complaint thread but I'm lowkey happy to see you mention Asian lol

qbit

sevomd69 wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.

I might agree with you on the lazy player part, but the biggest mistake that newer players make in this game is to follow Alcast's build to a tee...His builds (Gear1) are to maximize DPS when you are grouped up with some of the best players in this game in end game trial content...when newer players try too use his Siroria/SpellStrat/Zaan's build and can't manage a moderate size add pull without dying because they didn't slot a self heal...and don't know that the reason is that this is strictly a single target build and they may be not running with uber healers and tanks...therein lies the problem...

Any bis build is situational...and if not running with the likes of Hodor...running Alcast's gear1 builds are usually not optimal for run of the mill content that 95% of this community participates in...

Agree. This took me a bit to figure out as a new player. I use magsorc no pets gear set 2 and I still modify it to slot critical surge and I prefer the old spammable (force pulse?) over the psyjic light attack buff ability spammable. The gear and cp is what I follow since it’s rather overwhelming to me with my limited experience.

JumpmanLane

I respect Blob’s builds (I don’t and wouldn’t run them). But I see what he’s going for. I wouldn’t run Alcast’s PvP builds on a bet! I still got Gilliam’s updated Deltia build on my CRAFTER; but, after running into Gilliam in Cyrodill and watching what he was doing and who he was doing it WITH (ZERGING), I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t run Gilliam’s builds.

Again, I respect Blobs, because he explains HOW to theorycraft your own builds. I even respect Gilliam who refused to “spoon feed” his followers and encourages them to think for themselves. I respected Deltia because he was a great starting point. I respect Alcast because he was a great place to go after Deltia. YouTube Builds have a place. Yet, beyond a certain point...don’t run that! Lol.

Exalted_Goose

Lab3360 wrote: »

"Youre an idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself. You should listen to how stupid you sound when you say that a "Youtube Build" is the only way to get the job done. I feel sorry for youre guild because you hold them back.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.

Time out.

While I agree that people essentially copying, "meta", builds from others should not criticise and mock non-meta users for their builds, take a step back. It's important to remember that a lot of people using these builds are inexperienced, many of whom really trying to dig into the concept of builds and are looking for a place to start. Gear, CP, how certain factors synergise with a class and playstyle... it's daunting, there's a lot to it - they turn to these content creators and see how well they do, so their builds must work. In their eyes, surely other stuff can't be as effective, otherwise the content creators they follow and are learning from would be using it. Equally, while the naivety will be diluted somewhat, high-CP players may also rely on these builds simply because they do not have the time to theorycraft and form their own, or they struggle to understand what works and how to make something work. Some players' minds simply don't sync well with the whole process, hence they turn to these premade builds because they offer a means through which they can enjoy the game.

I agree wholeheartedly that you shouldn't have been disregarded. I've used many YouTube builds in the past and I still use personalised versions when I'm learning a class and establishing a playstyle - I admire people who make their own builds, because I struggle with doing so. To me, builds that people have put a lot of time, effort and care into refining reflect a level of skill and understanding that I will never be able to attain, and I respect that a lot. I cannot stress this enough, you should not have been abused, and it's wrong that this happens. But name-calling isn't going to help the situation. They're criticising what they do not understand, and by insulting them and refusing to patiently explain why what you're doing works, you're also limiting their understanding and the prospects of them eventually learning how to think outside the box.

You don't have to share your build with them, or anything. But politely explaining why what you're running works will genuinely go leaps and bounds in helping these players - I speak from experience. Some players won't ever get the message, and will instead keep dismissing what you're running, but I promise you that many will eventually listen, and they will be thankful for what you've taught them. Besides, doing a good job of explaining will definitely make you sound like you know what you're on about, which will help a lot.

Bridge the gap. You've got the understanding, so you hold all the cards.

Suddwrath

Lab3360 wrote: »

I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.

This is not how you try to get your point across.

Godspeed

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.

Thank you. I love Alcasts content but his builds lead people astray.

Tasear

Coming back to this again. @Exalted_Goose has the right approach. Instead of fighting we should work to bridge gap. For record I think alcast pretty good guy and takes a lot of rap for this ongoing fued.

While this talk didn't start off the best it does bring attention how do we support diversity in game but still all different competitive models? How do remove prejudices vs skilled player with build and cluess noob being an burden?

idk

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

I'm still trying to find a pet sorc build that I like that doesn't use flame staffs or weaving and can reach the higher dps. I have one that almost can but ehh.

CP builds tho.. that's what I really hate. setting up the right CP and such is just tedious and I like using a guide that I can slightly tweak.

Weaving alone is a big loss if not doing it. You can still get decent DPS but are leaving some in the tank.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

@Lab3360 for healing and tanking you dont need a guide since most trials forces you to use different things depending what trial and what tactic...if you are dps however there are just 2 builds that severely outperforms the rest thus leaving the others unusable
Mag=SS+Siroria+Zaan/Skoria depending on trial
Stam=Relequen+AY+Velidreth
so from this setups that put a gap of almost 10k dps from any other builds...from others even more...please do tell how do you see the universal guides and different play styles be achievable...sure if you buy the marketing thing regarding "play the way you want" then I guess you can be a light armor 2 hander inner beast spammer...but if you want to get competitive and achieve the best results then you go for min/max and yes its nice to have in vtrials dds who can actually 50k+ and im generous on that low requirement.
long story short...L2P stop Complain.

@Enemy-of-Coldharbour in terms of dps there is nothing else to choose from atm and in terms of tank/healer its rly group dependant...also there is a reason why alcast does DPS parses on 6m dummy with all raid buffs and dots up...since solo he can get mopped down...I mean srls 61k dummy parse with support? pff I screwed up rotation on rakkhat hm and I still got 62k ez... without perfect relequen so yeah im sorry but the only thing people should check up on those guides are rotation and regarding the builds u can use ur brain a bit and do some research cuz for example most people b4 the relequen/AY thing here is the fun part...they were using relequen+ravager...why? cuz relequen was bis ravager proc and the uptime was literally on CD...until zos fixed it and rendered it useless...but I bet nobody saw them in any guide...as I said...brainz 1st

Lab3360

SaltySudd wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.

This is not how you try to get your point across.

Youre right.

And I apologize.

Tasear

Lab3360 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.

This is not how you try to get your point across.

Youre right.

And I apologize.

Your original point isn't lost but to bring about change you have to understand both sides and then educate people why what you does work or is fun to do.

Lab3360

Exalted_Goose wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

"Youre an idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself. You should listen to how stupid you sound when you say that a "Youtube Build" is the only way to get the job done. I feel sorry for youre guild because you hold them back.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Alcast's builds are for noobs and lazy players who don't want to do a little bit of research. Even he does not use them. There is a reason why Alcast and Hodor don't post their 'personal' builds.

Time out.

While I agree that people essentially copying, "meta", builds from others should not criticise and mock non-meta users for their builds, take a step back. It's important to remember that a lot of people using these builds are inexperienced, many of whom really trying to dig into the concept of builds and are looking for a place to start. Gear, CP, how certain factors synergise with a class and playstyle... it's daunting, there's a lot to it - they turn to these content creators and see how well they do, so their builds must work. In their eyes, surely other stuff can't be as effective, otherwise the content creators they follow and are learning from would be using it. Equally, while the naivety will be diluted somewhat, high-CP players may also rely on these builds simply because they do not have the time to theorycraft and form their own, or they struggle to understand what works and how to make something work. Some players' minds simply don't sync well with the whole process, hence they turn to these premade builds because they offer a means through which they can enjoy the game.

I agree wholeheartedly that you shouldn't have been disregarded. I've used many YouTube builds in the past and I still use personalised versions when I'm learning a class and establishing a playstyle - I admire people who make their own builds, because I struggle with doing so. To me, builds that people have put a lot of time, effort and care into refining reflect a level of skill and understanding that I will never be able to attain, and I respect that a lot. I cannot stress this enough, you should not have been abused, and it's wrong that this happens. But name-calling isn't going to help the situation. They're criticising what they do not understand, and by insulting them and refusing to patiently explain why what you're doing works, you're also limiting their understanding and the prospects of them eventually learning how to think outside the box.

You don't have to share your build with them, or anything. But politely explaining why what you're running works will genuinely go leaps and bounds in helping these players - I speak from experience. Some players won't ever get the message, and will instead keep dismissing what you're running, but I promise you that many will eventually listen, and they will be thankful for what you've taught them. Besides, doing a good job of explaining will definitely make you sound like you know what you're on about, which will help a lot.

Bridge the gap. You've got the understanding, so you hold all the cards.

You really do raise some valid points.
Trying to be patient with whoncome off as complete "A" holes is really tough. And maybe I have too. For that I truly apologize.

Its just Im soo fn mad right now. This is a great game. I have met a lot of nice people and made lasting friends with people through this game. It uosets me to see people and friends bullied, intimidated and hummiliated by Youtube Builds Users and peoole who think they are suoerior because of use of YouTube Builds.

You have to understand I am railing against this ideology because I feel it has reach a point of epedemic proportion.

Some people will simply wilt to these type of players. So, if I come off too strong or a complete u know what, that is why.

But you do make vaild points in each paragraph.

I think its fair to say this has become an issue judgimg from the respoonse of this thread. And my temperment in which i opened has made it point. The little guys have been heard. I hope ot does not stop.

Lab3360

Tasear wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.

This is not how you try to get your point across.

Youre right.

And I apologize.

Your original point isn't lost but to bring about change you have to understand both sides and then educate people why what you does work or is fun to do.

I have. I just chose not to with that group who were the most disrespectful i have ever met in game.

Tasear

Lab3360 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.

This is not how you try to get your point across.

Youre right.

And I apologize.

Your original point isn't lost but to bring about change you have to understand both sides and then educate people why what you does work or is fun to do.

I have. I just chose not to with that group who were the most disrespectful i have ever met in game.

To be fair you had to have had bad luck Most people are rational these days. But on a different note you remind me of myself 3 years ago. My suggestion is just becareful on your approach.

Delsanab14_ESO

Spell Strategist and Maelstrom as requirements on Alcast is just silly, most will never have either of those especially the latter.

Austinseph1

There is a lot to learn about the game and simply reading about builds help me formulate how to make my own. Honestly without all the youtube builds to help me learn I would have given up long ago. Content creators help the community on more ways than one.

Tasear

Austinseph1 wrote: »

There is a lot to learn about the game and simply reading about builds help me formulate how to make my own. Honestly without all the youtube builds to help me learn I would have given up long ago. Content creators help the community on more ways than one.

The issue isn't really on content creators but their followers who push it as only option. Then it's about adding diversity in what makes something effective. Make the most effective option harder to find.

Hurbster

While I do use Alcast's builds as a baseline, I tend to get a bit annoyed that every Stam character runs dual-wield and bow and uses caltrops. Still trying to find a viable alternative but when I asked about it here a few weeks ago 95% of the answers were 'just do pvp'.

So I thought 'sod it' and used the undaunted webs, works fine for now.

Tasear

Hurbster wrote: »

While I do use Alcast's builds as a baseline, I tend to get a bit annoyed that every Stam character runs dual-wield and bow and uses caltrops. Still trying to find a viable alternative but when I asked about it here a few weeks ago 95% of the answers were 'just do pvp'.

So I thought 'sod it' and used the undaunted webs, works fine for now.

What do you think of range for synergy of trapping webs?

Sevn

You'd be amazed at how many players will trash a build/playstyle they have never even tried because they heard from someone else it doesn't work, all while running some cookiecutter youtube build that they swear they came up with themselves.

Tasear

Sevn wrote: »

You'd be amazed at how many players will trash a build/playstyle they have never even tried because they heard from someone else it doesn't work, all while running some cookiecutter youtube build that they swear they came up with themselves.

How do we bridge the gap?

Sevn

dazee wrote: »

jazsper77 wrote: »

Lol OP going to every build thread trashing YouTube. Get a life dude if it helps players who are busy in REAL LIFE to get build help who are you to judge.
Further more if I’m doing HM content I know how long it should take. The group doesn’t have 6hrs to clear content with everyone’s my build is the best group.
Sorry your build MAY WORK but I don’t have ALL DAY AND NITE to complete the content.

I think someone is just jealous that he got called out and further I guarantee you wiped and got kicked so your pissed.

Wow man, take it easy, he's understandably upset that his perfectly viable build got him yelled at cuz he wasn't using the meta that every brainless sheeple and their mother uses. do you really want to out yourself as one of those?

I think with that type of response he already outed himself lol.