Elder Scrolls Online is slowly turning into a game that exploits gamers with a gambling addiction

Lab3360 · December 2018

sevomd69 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

By the way, I will just add that I have bought two lots of these crates, in the past and a very kind friend bought me a third (as I liked the pets this month!).

I quite enjoy opening them, even though I won very little, both this time and last and had to buy 3 of the 4 pets I wanted, this time, with traded-in gems.

So, I'm not so opposed to them that I won't ever buy them.

In the case of people who are over 18, don't have a gambling problem and can limit themselves to what they can afford, they're actually quite a fun way of getting small things (like pets) you would have bought (for a reasonable price), anyway.

Problem is, some people clearly aren't over 18 and/or don't have much money and/or can't limit themselves and for those people, it is a constant temptation they can't easily avoid and (possibly) even the start of a lifelong gambling addiction.

I'm anti prohibition, but if you knew someone was an alcoholic, you wouldn't force them to have a bar permanently set-up in their living room, where they couldn't get away from it, would you?

If you aren't over 18...you shouldn't be playing this game anyway...and if you do choose to skirt the TOS...and have problems because of crates...well...I have enough problems in my real life...where that becomes the very least of my worries...

Dude. Its a bad practice. By its very nature, this is gambling. I stopped buying that sht a long time ago (loot boxes). Zos is using a vegas algorithm where you have "increasingly" less of a chance to get apex rewards. It didnt always work that way. But after testimg with a lot of money, the results were conclusive.

It doesnt matter the age. People should not have to soend money to have a chance. Create a digital product and then sell it. Real simple and eliminates any problems. And its fair..

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708

No one is an adult at 18. No one.

sevomd69 · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

By the way, I will just add that I have bought two lots of these crates, in the past and a very kind friend bought me a third (as I liked the pets this month!).

I quite enjoy opening them, even though I won very little, both this time and last and had to buy 3 of the 4 pets I wanted, this time, with traded-in gems.

So, I'm not so opposed to them that I won't ever buy them.

In the case of people who are over 18, don't have a gambling problem and can limit themselves to what they can afford, they're actually quite a fun way of getting small things (like pets) you would have bought (for a reasonable price), anyway.

Problem is, some people clearly aren't over 18 and/or don't have much money and/or can't limit themselves and for those people, it is a constant temptation they can't easily avoid and (possibly) even the start of a lifelong gambling addiction.

I'm anti prohibition, but if you knew someone was an alcoholic, you wouldn't force them to have a bar permanently set-up in their living room, where they couldn't get away from it, would you?

If you aren't over 18...you shouldn't be playing this game anyway...and if you do choose to skirt the TOS...and have problems because of crates...well...I have enough problems in my real life...where that becomes the very least of my worries...

Dude. Its a bad practice. By its very nature, this is gambling. I stopped buying that sht a long time ago (loot boxes). Zos is using a vegas algorithm where you have "increasingly" less of a chance to get apex rewards. It didnt always work that way. But after testimg with a lot of money, the results were conclusive.

It doesnt matter the age. People should not have to soend money to have a chance. Create a digital product and then sell it. Real simple and eliminates any problems. And its fair..

Dude...Just wanted to see if it made me cooler to type in Dude...it didn't...

Tigerseye · December 2018

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

if you are crying because you spent all of your money on worthless digital items, this game (or any other game) isn't the reason you are a failure human and shouldn't be held responsible for your inability to utilize self control

I agree with the above statement.

OPTION

Ban alcohol because of drunks.

Ban gambling because some people have no self control.

Ban large sodas because some people are fat.

OPTION

We can solve all of these problems by banning the people that try to blame all of their shortcomings on others.

Love one another and please teach your children there will be consequences for their actions and how to utilize self control.

Peace, love and soul

No one here is saying ban gambling entirely.

The issue here is very specific and (at least) fivefold:

1. The ESO Crown Store is a captive, monopolised market, within the ESO game.

Only one company can sell, or provide gambling services, within the ESO game.

Therefore, there is no competition, which would otherwise (hopefully) tend to keep things fairer, in terms of the odds and/or would promote better pricing.

2. The Crown Store is permanently there, right in front of the player, every time they log on to the game.

A game which is a non-gambling game, in general.

A game where it could be argued that recovering gambling addicts (and any underaged persons - see point 3) should be free to not be exposed to gambling.

As opposed to a casino (even an online one), where you have to go, specifically, to its address to use it.

3. Children could be (and are) playing, because there are not doorman on the ESO door, keeping them out, like there are on the doors of real casinos.

4. Certain ESO items are locked, exclusively, behind gambling.

So, people (of age, or not) trying to avoid gambling cannot choose to do so, unless they are prepared to permanently forgo a fairly large proportion of the cosmetic items available.

This will make it more likely that they will think "Just this once..." and (in the case of recovering addicts), unintentionally, fall off the wagon.

It is also more likely to encourage other non-gamblers to gamble, when they would have otherwise not chosen to do so.

I think it is fair to say that people, who do not wish to gamble, should not be encouraged to do so, against their will, or have to forgo certain items.

Choosing to gamble, or not, should always be a free choice and it cannot be seen to be a completely free choice, when it is inexorably linked to acquiring certain "exclusive" rewards.

5. People aren't gambling, directly, with real money (or even credit cards), here.

They are gambling with Crowns, a one-way-only artificial currency conversion; which, by the way, (unlike chips in a casino) cannot ever be cashed back in for real money.

This conversion (double conversion, when you include gems) is likely to; a) make people less careful and less aware of exactly what they are spending and to; b) once again, encourage underage people to gamble.

As they can do so with Crowns they didn't have to, specifically, acquire to gamble with.

Their parents could have (for example), unwittingly, provided them with Crowns via ESO+ and/or with the idea that they would spend them directly on other items.

Not aware that they can then proceed to gamble with them, if they like.

OK, the parents should, ideally, not have let their kids play an 18+ game in the first place; but, two wrongs don't make a right.

Teaching children to be aware that there are consequences for their actions and to utilise self control is a very good idea, but it is unrealistic to imagine that every parent can and will manage to do that, with every child.

As I say, I find the crates quite fun to open, myself, from time to time - but, that doesn't change the fact that there are problems inherent with this entire system.

Not just in ESO, in many games of this type.

Kiralyn2000 · December 2018

Remag_Div wrote: »

900 gems for both the mount and pet is both hilarious yet depressing at the same time.

It's clear ZOS is getting more and more extreme with these prices as time goes on.

To me, 900 gems for both the mount and pet seems like a clear "gem sink". Like the multi-million-gold houses were gold sinks. (or the multi-million-dilithium costumes in Star Trek Online were Dilithium sinks)

ZOS has statistics of how many gems are sitting around in people's accounts, not being spent. They probably want to get them out of circulation, so that people with piles of gems (like, say, from buying too many crates in the past) don't just ignore the next crate season because they can just buy everything they want with gems. (Same reason they added Radiant Apex)

So they put out something silly expensive, for the people with big gem supplies to buy.

Davor wrote: »

What are you talking about? What is your point? Gambling addiction is not a joke. Any addiction is not a joke. So why are you making lite of the situation?

I'm not. I'm pointing out that 1) the basic mechanic of "do X, get random loot. Random loot isn't what you want, Do X again" has been a core feature of gaming since long before it cost money; and 2) whatever ruling the government makes on loot boxes will likely be a train wreck that will make things worse. Because the government tends to make committees out of people who don't understand anything about what they're ruling on (like putting isolationist xenophobes in charge of international relations), and then does things that make good PR rather than good solutions. Especially on "think of the children" topics like sex drugs & rocknroll vidya games.

Do a thing, get a prize (Skinner Boxes) are all over gaming. Every trial is one. Every holiday daily we're doing, hoping that the New Life Box has whatever you're looking for is one. Every Baal run in Diablo 2. Etc, etc, etc. If you want to protect addictive personalities from being manipulated by game companies, you need to go back waaay before "cash shops" and kill any game with random loot.

Ectheliontnacil · December 2018

yodased wrote: »

While I can appreciate the sentiment of the post, you really are reaching here. Gambling addiction for sure is a real thing and loot boxes very well could be a trigger leading to irrational behavior, but I doubt this is going to be creating addicts from ZOS crates.

Does your country have the lottery? Casinos? Horse/Dog Tracks? Poker Rooms? Chicken Fights? Dog Fights?

There are innumerable ways for someone with a predilection for gambling to get in trouble. For that matter, how does the game itself not trigger the same reaction in these people?

The entirety of every game like this is based on gambling. Every single item that is opened with a chance of a gold item is a slot machine. Why are these people ok with this situation and not suffering from sleep deprivation and getting fired from their job because they have to find the golden cheese?

Is your point that the loot boxes affect them differently because there is real world consequences to purchasing lotto tickets in the game?

How do these poor people go to the gas station without buying all the lotto tickets?

Also, if you are on welfare from gambling how do you have the necessary means to have a computer with specs to run the game, a place to play for the time needed to become addicted, internet access without restriction?

Every time I see these arguments, its a false agenda, it's much more likely that you don't like the loot boxes and are looking for a reason to get rid of them vs actually thinking that they lead to bankruptcy or whatever else you want to attribute to them.

Do I like lootboxes? Of course not, no one does. Do I realize that I have no control over the situation other than to not purchase them? Of course I do, I'm an adult who understands the consequence of spending available funds on irrelevant things.

Have the real discussion, bring valid points why the concept is not valid, don't reach for mental health because it is an easy target is all im saying.

@yodased it's funny how none of your points are valid either.

Of course there's dog fights and stuff in a lot of countries. But those are illegal, and for good reason I might add.
So because there's other forms of gambling available to addicts, that suddenly makes it ok for ZOS to implement a system taking advantage of gambling addiction?
That's a fundamentally flawed argument, it's like saying there's lots of thieves out there, ergo it's ok for me to be stealing.

'How do these poor people go to the gas station without buying all of the lottery tickets?" Dude what's that even supposed to mean. If they're that poor they prolly don't have a car anyways, and it always depends on the individual and on the severity of the problem. It's entirely possible that someone spends thousands on lootboxes because they're addicted to the game and those sweet apex mounts. Doesn't mean they can't walk past a newspaper stand without going on a betting spree.

And then you say the OP has an agenda. Like what is it even supposed to be? An evil plot to remove radiant apex mounts? I think he just wants to protect people with gambling disorders, a noble cause imo.
Maybe you're the one with the agenda, ZOS marketing director in disguise.

I haven't addressed all of your arguments, but I don't need to, they're all equally pointless.

yodased · December 2018

wow I'm glad there are people like you to protect everyone from evil men like me.

You know what that entire point was? That you don't get to dictate others behaviors because you have a problem.

They don't want loot boxes so they reach for the mental health angle, they don't want to gamble in a video game so they pretend they are looking at it with objective eyes and denouncing the evil that is gambling.

And you know that poor doesn't have to mean anything about financial stability right? Nomenclature must be hard for you.

So some guy has a gambling problem and he can't control himself from buying $1,000 in video game loot boxes and now I am supposed to what? Feel bad for him? Why? Don't play the game then.

You can attack me however you want, but you refuted nothing of the argument you just put some spin on it and felt good about yourself.

yodased · December 2018

oh and dog and chicken fights are not illegal in other countries, they also have bullfights too, and OH MY GOD in some countries they eat dogs and little bitty kitty cats too

wolf486 · December 2018

For myself I feel that in single player games, loot boxes/crates have absolutely zero place. Even for cosmetics. No online stores or anything.
For MMO's/online games loot boxes/crates should NOT exist if player progression if locked behind them. Armor, weapons or any sort of player boost.
If the only thing inside crates are mounts, costumes or any other cosmetic thing, then I really don't care.

I do agree that it looks bad when zos is seemingly increasing the cost of gem items, which ofc are only available through crown crates. But at the end of the day, you don't need a new mount or pet.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

yodased wrote: »

wow I'm glad there are people like you to protect everyone from evil men like me.

You know what that entire point was? That you don't get to dictate others behaviors because you have a problem.

They don't want loot boxes so they reach for the mental health angle, they don't want to gamble in a video game so they pretend they are looking at it with objective eyes and denouncing the evil that is gambling.

And you know that poor doesn't have to mean anything about financial stability right? Nomenclature must be hard for you.

So some guy has a gambling problem and he can't control himself from buying $1,000 in video game loot boxes and now I am supposed to what? Feel bad for him? Why? Don't play the game then.

You can attack me however you want, but you refuted nothing of the argument you just put some spin on it and felt good about yourself.

You can't disregard facts, if a fact exists in a psychological, psychosocial, medical, or sociological means then you need to factor it in. It isn't an "excuse" or "angle", it's reality.

But more to respond to your idea about just not playing the game. What about the addictive mechanics and other systems implemented into the game and its currency methods to cause others to become more addicted to the game? What about the psychologists these games and mobile games frequently consult to intentionally increase the predatory capability of their games to retain people playing them?

This idea that everything people do is their own responsibility is false. And while you may not care about it, history shows that for the "greater good" many things have been changed.

If you do not care about what others experience that is your decision, though one I am against of course. But that does not change the reality of what impacts others or the forces that are trying to influence them sometimes even with shady means.

yodased · December 2018

All games, from chess to this are designed to become addictive. Do dark patterns exist? Sure. Are marketing departments guilty of presenting systems that are easy to become addictive in a feedback loop? sure.

The point remains, if you can not control yourself beyond spending more than you can afford within a video game, then you need to reevaluate priorities and stop playing video games until you get a handle on that.

So what is the answer you would ask for? Get the government to step in and regulate these things I would assume, which has had amazing results every other situation they handle.

I am not denying that gambling or any other addiction is false, nor that a video game can trigger these things, but just as an alcoholic really probably shouldn't be going to bars, if you are a gambling addict, you should stay away from anything involving currency and chance.

And newsflash, that's literally every video game ever made. Recently they have been more forward about it and monetized, which I guess is why there is all the fervor around it, but its been there since you had to put a quarter in the machine to play and another quarter to continue.

Where were the defendants there? Were where the picket lines in front of arcades calling them monsters for supporting gambling addicts?

Hey whatever, if you want to choose this hill to die on, if this is your battle to fight, then good luck.

Mettaricana · December 2018

I got an ice horse for crowns way back when so now i dont need a senche reskin that costs me 300 bucks in gamble crates

lokulin · December 2018

The crown crates and cost of things like race change tokens really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Listing things at crown prices rather than local currency prices is a deceptive practice that hides the true cost and makes it easier for people to not realise how much money they are sinking into the game. Although I still enjoy and play the game a lot, I no longer recommend it to friends and have changed my rating on steam to a "do not recommend". The more emphasis that is put on collectibles the more ESO feels like a sleazy carnival side show.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

yodased wrote: »

All games, from chess to this are designed to become addictive. Do dark patterns exist? Sure. Are marketing departments guilty of presenting systems that are easy to become addictive in a feedback loop? sure.

The point remains, if you can not control yourself beyond spending more than you can afford within a video game, then you need to reevaluate priorities and stop playing video games until you get a handle on that.

So what is the answer you would ask for? Get the government to step in and regulate these things I would assume, which has had amazing results every other situation they handle.

I am not denying that gambling or any other addiction is false, nor that a video game can trigger these things, but just as an alcoholic really probably shouldn't be going to bars, if you are a gambling addict, you should stay away from anything involving currency and chance.

And newsflash, that's literally every video game ever made. Recently they have been more forward about it and monetized, which I guess is why there is all the fervor around it, but its been there since you had to put a quarter in the machine to play and another quarter to continue.

Where were the defendants there? Were where the picket lines in front of arcades calling them monsters for supporting gambling addicts?

Hey whatever, if you want to choose this hill to die on, if this is your battle to fight, then good luck.

Simply put we disagree, and I wasn't really old enough be picket lining Arcades, I probably would have had I seen their impact and was old enough to do the amount of research I do today before making decisions.

To be entirely accurate, there are many things that government has regulated that are much better now, water for instance given that the water was on fire and pollution in the air was ridiculous.

Games should be for fun and entertainment, they shouldn't be about nickle and diming everyone. And yes I do support government regulation of pay-to-play mechanics as well as free-to-play as well as loot boxes. Of course I ideally desire a reasonable regulation of that and expect the EU to lead it.

AbysmalGhul · December 2018

You can't child proof the world. Addiction rears its ugly in every shape n form in life from actual gambling, substance abuse, gaming, eating, shopping, plastic surgery, body modifications, tattoos, smoking.......etc etc etc etc....and the list will continue on and on till the end of time.

Instead of being part of what you would consider a toxic environment, leave. Seek out a positive environment instead. Why support a company that you may perceive as taking advantage of the clinically addicted by logging in everyday?

Most of us has enabled an addict in some shape and form. Some of us here have served an addict a Big Mac, cigarettes, beer, video games, lottery tickets, etc etc etc etc.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

You can't child proof the world. Addiction rears its ugly in every shape n form in life from actual gambling, substance abuse, gaming, eating, shopping, plastic surgery, body modifications, tattoos, smoking.......etc etc etc etc....and the list will continue on and on till the end of time.

Instead of being part of what you would consider a toxic environment, leave. Seek out a positive environment instead. Why support a company that you may perceive as taking advantage of the clinically addicted by logging in everyday?

Most of us has enabled an addict in some shape and form. Some of us here have served an addict a Big Mac, cigarettes, beer, video games, lottery tickets, etc etc etc etc.

I think the issue is more that there's a difference between addiction rearing its ugly head everywhere at some point and more about not supporting the actual act of encouraging it.

Sylvermynx · December 2018

There's a major disconnect in this discussion. And that disconnect is those who seem to believe that they need to make decisions for others.

If you are an addictive personality (yes, I do know what that is - my father was one, as was my mother in an entirely different and not all that obvious way), then it is up to you to deal with that problem. It is not incumbent upon government or private individuals to "help" you.

Corporations for whom those with such issues work can and do enable people with those issues to obtain help. But what some of you seem to be advocating is that I, as a person without such problems, should deny myself my own enjoyment because some people have addictive personalities.

Sorry, that's probably not going to happen. Seriously people. I am responsible for myself. I refuse to make myself responsible for the rest of the world. It's NOT MY JOB. If others have issues, well - those people need to deal with them.

So yeah. If you have a problem with gambling and you're upset that the crates trigger your responses - then you should quit playing this game. It's not on the rest of us to micromanage your issues.

BTW - I GREW UP IN VEGAS. I know who built the casinos - and it wasn't me. You know what the casinos gave me for the 30 years I lived there? Double coupons at Vons.... a LOT of discounts off my groceries.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

There's a major disconnect in this discussion. And that disconnect is those who seem to believe that they need to make decisions for others.

If you are an addictive personality (yes, I do know what that is - my father was one, as was my mother in an entirely different and not all that obvious way), then it is up to you to deal with that problem. It is not incumbent upon government or private individuals to "help" you.

Corporations for whom those with such issues work can and do enable people with those issues to obtain help. But what some of you seem to be advocating is that I, as a person without such problems, should deny myself my own enjoyment because some people have addictive personalities.

Sorry, that's probably not going to happen. Seriously people. I am responsible for myself. I refuse to make myself responsible for the rest of the world. It's NOT MY JOB. If others have issues, well - those people need to deal with them.

So yeah. If you have a problem with gambling and you're upset that the crates trigger your responses - then you should quit playing this game. It's not on the rest of us to micromanage your issues.

BTW - I GREW UP IN VEGAS. I know who built the casinos - and it wasn't me. You know what the casinos gave me for the 30 years I lived there? Double coupons at Vons.... a LOT of discounts off my groceries.

This wildly distorts reality and ignores that while it may true that a person is responsible for themselves, there are also those trying to influence them. People who argue for the corporations and such often ignore this critical piece of information.

Also it is our duty to be good caretakers so that we leave the world better than we found it. If people all thought of you, than mostly all the social programs, financial support programs, and the few laws helping others would not exist because people would not care about helping others as everyone should just do it themselves.

The casinos gave you discounts, what did they take away from your state? There's a lot of factors here to consider.

And it's very unlikely you're entirely responsible for yourself given the amount of things that also influence what you can and can't do and which support you or don't, further which administrate or oversee your actions or experiences, and the very country your in has a wide variety of experiences too, as does your employer and the advertisements you see, and the content and media you engage with and yeah even the games and education you have. Everything influences you.

We're calling more to a political point though which is typically not desired here, though I fail to see any real reason that should be, but regardless I vehemently disagree with you and the facts seem to as well.

TheInfernalRage · December 2018

Crates have always been here as far as I know. I never had a problem with them and I do enjoy those times when it's been given for free. I don't know if these complaints about gambling occurred before because I have not seen something like this post before.

I guess the addicts finally discovered this game, decided to try it out, got their addiction going, and now BLAMES THE EFFING GAME.

Tell me honestly, HOW MANY OF YOU GOT ADDICTED BECAUSE OF THESE CRATES? Because I really think one is already a gambling addict before even playing this game. If you're an addict, fix yourself and quit poisoning everything around you.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Crates have always been here as far as I know. I never had a problem with them and I do enjoy those times when it's been given for free. I don't know if these complaints about gambling occurred before because I have not seen something like this post before.

I guess the addicts finally discovered this game, decided to try it out, got their addiction going, and now BLAMES THE EFFING GAME.

Tell me honestly, HOW MANY OF YOU GOT ADDICTED BECAUSE OF THESE CRATES? Because I really think one is already a gambling addict before even playing this game. If you're an addict, fix yourself and quit poisoning everything around you.

One could argue the corporations shouldn't try to poison their games by adding microtransactions and gambling to everything. In any case, crowns weren't always here, no.

The Storm Atronach season was the first series of Crown Crates. It ran from December 31st, 2016 to March 2nd, 2017 in Q4 2016/Q1 2017. Players who purchased this season's Crown Crates had a chance of winning unique storm atronach–themed rewards.

Also let's keep in mind that Pacrooti is a hireling, here are his thoughts on the addiction to the drug skooma:

Here are your materials. Everywhere he travels, Pacrooti sees Skooma addicts. This is a very sad thing for Pacrooti's people. For Khajiit of this kind, happiness is not enough. They demand euphoria. But all wind up smelling bad, with very few teeth.
Stay away from Skooma, friend. Though it's popular among some Khajiit, today Pacrooti gleaned a Redguard male, one of the great component hunters of the region, one of the Scimitars of al-Babnab, under the influence of the vile substance. He shook, though not from sickness, and his bloodied eyes darted from side to side. Pacrooti hopes he survives.

Now, Pacrooti sells Crown Crates.

Ashilda_Dragonheart · December 2018

OFFL1MIT wrote: »

if person weak minded so be it. Smart person knows that crown store is just visuals and not going to look at it, or he will use crown store for good purposes, like supporting game. They still need to make profit, to pay for salaries and servers and other services. If you were a victim of it, than you need to seek for help to understand what's real and what's just for entertainment.
I think zos is generous, looking at other games where you buy base of the game and dlc and in total they cost $100+ dollars, which is insane what it used to be back in years $39.99 for all content, and even cheaper before those years.
Zos could have made big money from indrik mount, selling it at crown store, but they didnt. they give it for free, like morrowind for free, it's almost there's no games like this with popular titles this generous.
Lets be honest now, game industries making big money these days, even more than selling goods warehouses. If you dont like it , dont play it, if you have inner demons inside you and have gambling problems seek for help.

Zos is the opposite of generous. It feels like there's a paywall in front of all the decent items you can get, and you have to pay for everything good instead of being able to earn it and feel rewarded. I spent more money on this game than I want to think about, and I am so glad I stopped playing it. I'm only on this forum because I want the game to get better so I can play a decent elder scrolls game. But Bethesda is not really doing too great right now, and Zos isn't either.

AbysmalGhul · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

There's a major disconnect in this discussion. And that disconnect is those who seem to believe that they need to make decisions for others.

If you are an addictive personality (yes, I do know what that is - my father was one, as was my mother in an entirely different and not all that obvious way), then it is up to you to deal with that problem. It is not incumbent upon government or private individuals to "help" you.

Corporations for whom those with such issues work can and do enable people with those issues to obtain help. But what some of you seem to be advocating is that I, as a person without such problems, should deny myself my own enjoyment because some people have addictive personalities.

Sorry, that's probably not going to happen. Seriously people. I am responsible for myself. I refuse to make myself responsible for the rest of the world. It's NOT MY JOB. If others have issues, well - those people need to deal with them.

So yeah. If you have a problem with gambling and you're upset that the crates trigger your responses - then you should quit playing this game. It's not on the rest of us to micromanage your issues.

BTW - I GREW UP IN VEGAS. I know who built the casinos - and it wasn't me. You know what the casinos gave me for the 30 years I lived there? Double coupons at Vons.... a LOT of discounts off my groceries.

@Sylvermynx Voooons! I remember that store! Most of my friends worked there through their junior high and high school years!

I agree with you! Everyone is accountable for their own actions. That seems to be a lost art in this day in age

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

Which means corporations are accountable for their actions too..

Reistr_the_Unbroken · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

though I fail to see any real reason that should be, but regardless I vehemently disagree with you and the facts seem to as well.

Did you even read what they wrote? Or did you skim it and are just assuming things?

Because it’s clearly not my or anyone else’s job to destroy other people’s lives and tell them what to do.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

though I fail to see any real reason that should be, but regardless I vehemently disagree with you and the facts seem to as well.

Did you even read what they wrote? Or did you skim it and are just assuming things?

Because it’s clearly not my or anyone else’s job to destroy other people’s lives and tell them what to do.

Unlike you and your distortions and misrepresentations and disregard of facts, I have actually read everything I reply to and fully.

Ertosi · December 2018

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Zos is the opposite of generous.

The fact that ZOS allows phoney baloney threads like this to exist confirms they are exceptionally generous.

Sylvermynx · December 2018

@Delsanab14_ESO -

I disagree with you because you insist on blaming everyone else for something YOU can deal with. And you are blaming everyone else but yourself for your apparent inability to manage your own impulses.

Nevada gave us a good living for over a quarter of a century. We have a great retirement due to 30+ years working for the state - and not in the gambling industry. We don't live in Nevada now (unfortunately - husband was born in Utah.... they spend the first 20 years of their lives scratching to get OUT of Utah so they can make a living, and the last 20 years of their lives desperate to get BACK to Utah so they can die there.... don't ask me why - this state is a cesspool for women, and when he dies as he's LOTS older than I am, I'll be out of here as soon as he's buried)

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

There's a major disconnect in this discussion. And that disconnect is those who seem to believe that they need to make decisions for others.

If you are an addictive personality (yes, I do know what that is - my father was one, as was my mother in an entirely different and not all that obvious way), then it is up to you to deal with that problem. It is not incumbent upon government or private individuals to "help" you.

Corporations for whom those with such issues work can and do enable people with those issues to obtain help. But what some of you seem to be advocating is that I, as a person without such problems, should deny myself my own enjoyment because some people have addictive personalities.

Sorry, that's probably not going to happen. Seriously people. I am responsible for myself. I refuse to make myself responsible for the rest of the world. It's NOT MY JOB. If others have issues, well - those people need to deal with them.

So yeah. If you have a problem with gambling and you're upset that the crates trigger your responses - then you should quit playing this game. It's not on the rest of us to micromanage your issues.

BTW - I GREW UP IN VEGAS. I know who built the casinos - and it wasn't me. You know what the casinos gave me for the 30 years I lived there? Double coupons at Vons.... a LOT of discounts off my groceries.

@Sylvermynx Voooons! I remember that store! Most of my friends worked there through their junior high and high school years!

I agree with you! Everyone is accountable for their own actions. That seems to be a lost art in this day in age

@AbysmalGhul - I love Vons to this day. Wish I had one where I live now! Unfortunately I'm stuck with Smiths and Albertsons and a local grocery chain which thinks it's Whole Foods in that heyday.... when all it really is is overpriced supposedly organic stuff.

Y'know what? I grew up before there was organic anything. I'm 71 - and I'm disgustingly healthy (according to my doctor). So yeah, I ate all the non-organic food for all those years.... I'm NOT paying double the price for organic now.

Tabbycat · December 2018

I just look at it this way.

I pay $15 a month for ESO+ and get 1500 crowns included. So that means $1 = 100 crowns. If something costs 3000 crowns, that's 30 bucks. They use a made up currency to make it more difficult to figure cash values of items to encourage you to over-spend.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Delsanab14_ESO -

I disagree with you because you insist on blaming everyone else for something YOU can deal with. And you are blaming everyone else but yourself for your apparent inability to manage your own impulses.

Nevada gave us a good living for over a quarter of a century. We have a great retirement due to 30+ years working for the state - and not in the gambling industry. We don't live in Nevada now (unfortunately - husband was born in Utah.... they spend the first 20 years of their lives scratching to get OUT of Utah so they can make a living, and the last 20 years of their lives desperate to get BACK to Utah so they can die there.... don't ask me why - this state is a cesspool for women, and when he dies as he's LOTS older than I am, I'll be out of here as soon as he's buried)

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

There's a major disconnect in this discussion. And that disconnect is those who seem to believe that they need to make decisions for others.

If you are an addictive personality (yes, I do know what that is - my father was one, as was my mother in an entirely different and not all that obvious way), then it is up to you to deal with that problem. It is not incumbent upon government or private individuals to "help" you.

Corporations for whom those with such issues work can and do enable people with those issues to obtain help. But what some of you seem to be advocating is that I, as a person without such problems, should deny myself my own enjoyment because some people have addictive personalities.

Sorry, that's probably not going to happen. Seriously people. I am responsible for myself. I refuse to make myself responsible for the rest of the world. It's NOT MY JOB. If others have issues, well - those people need to deal with them.

So yeah. If you have a problem with gambling and you're upset that the crates trigger your responses - then you should quit playing this game. It's not on the rest of us to micromanage your issues.

BTW - I GREW UP IN VEGAS. I know who built the casinos - and it wasn't me. You know what the casinos gave me for the 30 years I lived there? Double coupons at Vons.... a LOT of discounts off my groceries.

@Sylvermynx Voooons! I remember that store! Most of my friends worked there through their junior high and high school years!

I agree with you! Everyone is accountable for their own actions. That seems to be a lost art in this day in age

@AbysmalGhul - I love Vons to this day. Wish I had one where I live now! Unfortunately I'm stuck with Smiths and Albertsons and a local grocery chain which thinks it's Whole Foods in that heyday.... when all it really is is overpriced supposedly organic stuff.

Y'know what? I grew up before there was organic anything. I'm 71 - and I'm disgustingly healthy (according to my doctor). So yeah, I ate all the non-organic food for all those years.... I'm NOT paying double the price for organic now.

I have no addictions, so don't go assuming things. Further, it's not a matter of disagreeing, the simple facts and science and psychology disagree with you. It's literally that simple. As for what gambling did to your state, it was primarily lobbying based corruption and criminal ties.

The distortion has to stop. And you have to start seeing those responsible aren't below you but above you, so to speak.