ZOS, Lets talk about poison damage/abilities and World in Ruin rework for a moment.

  • Masel
    Class Representative
    Faulgor wrote: »
    What if Noxious Breath increased poison damage like Engulfing Flames increases fire damage? That might make it a bit more useful in DPS rotations, as the damage itself is negligable and Major Fracture is redundant in most situations.

    I don't think there are enough poison abilities in the game to warrant that. Everyone and their dog is doing fire damage nowadays, stamina DK doesn't have any synergy with anything else in that regard. Plus status effects given by poison/disease aren't as good as status effects from elemental damage.

    This is part of the reasons I should have probably included in the main past.

    Poisoned as a status effect is basically weaker fire.


    Is with tank providing orbs and fracture.
    Edited by Masel on September 24, 2018 6:51PM
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  • rumple9
    world in ruin doesnt reduce the stamina costs of my poison abilities on the tooltip - why is this ?
  • Wolf_Watching
    Before Talking about my concerns, I wanted to tell that I appreciate the balance team actually trying to make stamDK-poison synergy a bit more meaningful, but its done in such a way that it feels like rubbing salt on the wound.

    Some of you , probably including the combat balance team, are wondering why stamDKs are not happy to a ''buff'' that is so huge on paper. I mean %25 cost reduction, but its received as a meme more than a buff. I'm one of those who got mad while reading the patch notes, I know any change is better than no change when you're a stamDk main, but the lack of love and understanding is apparent in those patch notes.

    There are many reasons for why we feel this way about World in Ruin , so let me begin.

    1. There are not enough poison abilities.

    This is by far the biggest reason why stamDks, including myself are just laughing at the World in ruin changes. This is the 4th sustain passive you added to Dks now and this time, its basically meaningless because we don't have the tools to make use of this passive..

    The issue was never sustain, it was lack of tools in our hands to create a different playstyle.

    2.Lack of identity/synergy within the class

    Stamina Dk is a poison based melee class, and it has access to 6 poison abilities,. Only 2 of those abilities are actually melee, the other 4 come from weapon skills(3 from bow and trapping webs from undaunted) and everyone else also has access to them.

    It seems a lot on paper, definitely enough to make a strong build, but thats sadly only on paper.

    SDK now doesn't have passives that amp up poison damage, the two skills it has access to are dots that are weaker than bleeds, the other 3 come from bow skill line, which goes against the class identity completely.

    You just made ability ranges consistent for magDks with the elder dragon changes , congratz on that good change . However stamDKs needs to use lethal arrow, poison injection, acid spray, trapping webs, if they want to utilize the new world in ruin. Those abilities are all ranged and Dk dots+corrosive armor are melee abilities, this completely breaks the synergy and makes everything inconsistent.

    Problem here is that other classes have buffs that are much stronger and general meanwhile we get passives that don't make any difference., how would stamsorcs feel if their damage and cost reduction passives only worked on hurricane? That is exactly the case for stamDk right now, with noxious break being clunky as hell, the WiR only really matters for venomous claws, and claws is already the cheapest dot in the game(excluding the free axe bleed, which is broken but thats a discussion for another day).

    3. Existing Abilities need fixing before everything else

    Abilities like noxious breath, acid spray, trapping webs are still very clunky and weak for PvP use, even for casual PvP.

    Poison injection and venomous claws are ''fine'', they are still weaker than bleeds but thats a problem about bleeds being overpowered rather than poison being weak.

    I would go on forever about this, I would love to give suggestions on how to make this better, but it seems like you guys only want to hear about problems and solve them yourselves, so here are my problems as a stamina Dk main.

    If you've actually bothered to read this far, thank you. Try to emphasis on the fact that we are STAMINA Dks, and no, that does not mean we want to be tanks, and I do really hope that you come up with better changes, cause I know it can be done so easily , you only need to have the same passion for the class as we do. Every class deserves to have a diverse playstyle with unique perks. StamDK is no exception.

    Edit: Tagging @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Wrobel , for them to see it.

    Dude a 1.3k crit dot every two seconds isn’t op tf.
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Buzo
    Dude a 1.3k crit dot every two seconds isn’t op tf.

    Edited by Buzo on December 12, 2018 9:19AM
    DDuke wrote: »
    ...but yeah, what am I talking. Of course you (a random nobody) know better than people who, you know, actually play NB and create top tier builds for it.
  • Ragnarock41
    Buzo wrote: »
    Dude a 1.3k crit dot every two seconds isn’t op tf.


    He's right, 1.3k crit dot every two seconds isn't OP. Thats why venom claws is pretty well balanced, but bleeds are not.

    Thanks for proving my point, @Wolf_Watching ! clearly you are a man of intellect sir. :trollface:


    Here is a fresh screenshot from non-CP campaign! (shooting star comes from another player, in case anyone needs to be told of that)
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 12, 2018 10:32AM
  • Joosef_Kivikilpi
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Good point.

    I think perhaps just move the damage they lost from the world in ruin changes onto the abilities.

    and leave the cost reduction on it now.

    I personally believe just buffing up weapon abilities would further increase the damage gap between stamDk and every other stamina class(since they already have passives increasing tooltips but stamDK does not have any), however I would love to see trapping webs and acid spray improved to make them viable options for all classes.. Its just that stamDK lacks behind all classes when it comes to damage output, and this is entirely the fault of lack of passives. Combustion and WiR are supposed to be damage passives for the class, not sustain.

    Trapping webs should work a little faster(delay is fine but its harder to land than sub assault, talk about risk and reward :/ ) and the synergy should be working easier imho, requiring targetting makes it very clunky. I don't know what to do with trapping webs but it definitely needs some work to be viable.

    As for acid spray , it suffers from the ''Noxious breath'' syndrome, except unlike noxious breath it doesn't have major fracture to make it worthwhile for anything at all.

    But I mean... the World would be in Ruin if poison was so easily available and spread through the water and land masses.....

    haha! All jokes aside, you get a group of Stamina Dragonknights together, with one running Morag Tong, with all double dot poisons and everything else.... damage really gets boosted for all of them, by a substantial amount.
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