Vapirko wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

Lazy people are lazy. Takes no effort leveling to 50. Only skill points, mages guild and undaunted takes a bit. Game is easy enough as it is. Btw I have a max leveled character of every class already since the beginning of these "class change" threads.

Playing video games is kind of as lazy as it gets, so calling people lazy for not wanting to sit in a chair and redo the exact same content again and again is sort of a self defeating argument. And again, as I’ve stated in many other threads, a class change token isn’t mandatory. Those who’d rather spend their time doing other things in game or irl can use it. Those who prefer to spend time leveling another toon, gathering all necessary skill lines and sky shards and spending 6 months leveling their riding skillls would still be welcome to do so.

You fail to understand that a game designer should not make that a choice because any competent person understands that is bad design. It is one thing to have boosts, like WoW does, that make a new character on par with a pre-expansion max level. It is an entirely new thing to say 'Want to play a new class? Destroy your old one or start from scratch'. I know personally, I wouldnt care if someone wants to buy a boost to 50 on a new class (and you can already pay to boost your riding skills) as opposed to a class change token.

i suppose half the people that want class change only want achievements to be account-wide. Me one of them. I have all classes, but i can't leave my main character solely because of the achievements on it. I won't talk about skyshards, guilds reputations (undaunted, mages, etc), or motif/craftings knowledge.

I like how over half this post are players going "hue hue it takes like a week if that to lv from 1-50, who cares?" sure, but how long does it take to level your crafting? your enchanting? i'm cp 470 something, maybe higher and i STILL don't have my enchanting maxed out and i've played with the character i have for over 6 months trying to level that. i've had this character for over 3 years now. its not just about leveling a character up to lv 50. sure, if that was all the game was about, i'd agree with you in that THAT part isn't hard. but as you either know and are pretending not to be aware of, or are actually oblivious to for whatever reason, the game is far larger than levelling up from 1-50. far larger. levelling is pretty easy. waiting another 10 months until the witches festival to get all the achievements for that event all over again isn't (among other event-specific achievements) continually having to chop all of that ruby ash wood to create YET ANOTHER cp 160 restoration staff isnt easy either (among other crafting things) collecting all that ancestor silk, not to mention maxing out your crafting skills to even be able to use the materials for weapons/gear of those levels, maxing out your provisioning, it took me MONTHS to max those skill lines out (among many others) let alone the research time you have to take to research each of the attributes for weapons, armor... the amount of time put into doing those things quickly adds up to far more time than it takes to simply level from 1-50, the list goes on. That takes dedication, something I (and many others most likely) have put a lot of time into. all of those "unlocks" i guess you can call them... are character specific. if you make an alt, that alt does not share that experience the character that you spent all that time unlocking all of those skill lines on has. you have to do all of that all over again, if you wanted the same prowess your original had, something i'm sure even players with nearly all the time in the world simply don't have time for, and take it from me, for example, i have .... literally nothing i'm obligated to do in my life. i can play nearly 24/7 if i wanted to, (and i don't live with relatives or parents, hell i never even knew them. tmi, but ... lets just say i have all the time in the world.) but even with all that time to spend on eso, there still wouldn't be enough time to get all of those things done and enjoy it in a manner that would be efficient, let alone the fact i'd simply get bored. i have many other games i keep track of for their events that demand my attention and whatnot on top of eso, and thats not even mentioning the normal day to day tasks i have to do like cleaning... generic living stuff. all that time adds up. and i know i'm one of a lot (an understatement, i'm sure) of players that would probably like to see this implemented, and in truth, i don't see many issues with potentially implementing it. i doubt it would change the way classes interact with one another, given that you can change attributes, wear any armor in the game and any weapon in the game regardless of other choices you made in the game, regardless of what class you chose, attributes are the same for every character after lv 50, depending on how you assign them... basically besides alliance, class is the only thing you can't change in this game and frankly, it doesn't make sense to not be able to. balance won't be broken by allowing it to be changed, as i'd assume the only things that would change are what skills are available to you once you change classes, whether you'd have to level the new class or not probably isn't a big deal, and it won't break any sort of balances in the background because you'd be the same as pretty much anyone else that picked the class you just picked, whether initially or by using a hypothetical class swap token/shrine or whatever.. i'm pretty sure its possible to implement into the game too, its as simple as removing the three skill lines of your old class and adding the three skill lines attributed to the new class, and perhaps levelling that new class, works as simple as skill point refunding - not to mention the adddition/removal of skill lines is something that already happens in-game with certain quests, crown store purchases, etc.
Even with just these reasons here, i still have plenty of other reasons why there would be no issue with this being implemented, and as someone said on the thread earlier NOT TO MENTION ZENIMAX WOULD MAKE A PROFIT OFF OF IMPLEMENTING THIS... (a profit of which most people probably wouldn't even mind ol zeni making, i myself would gladly pay for the ability to change my class, i'd say that profit is money well deserved for making a good decision in trade off for being a good dev to their playerbase. good devs making tons money because they listen to the playerbase is a given. thats what happens when you're a good dev.) and lastly... the question at this point isn't whether the players even want this or not, its pretty clear a significant amount of us do want a class change system implemented, when thought about, there's no real reason it should cause any balance disruptions given how open... the system is as it is... and those in threads like these that are going "dude just make an alt" aren't necessarily saying they don't want it, its more along the lines of "we don't care" which is fine. you're entitled to your opinion, you're entitled to share it, but its irrelevant to the discussion for one, and two... those of us that do care and are aware of the massive amount of effort put into some characters we have in regards to not just levelling up from 1-50, but accessing the plethora of content beyond merely levelling... those of us that play the game for more than numbers and engross our time in it.... don't care that you don't care. we've heard the suggestion to make an alt a bajillion times before. a bajillion and one probably won't make a difference.
at this point its simply a matter of them deciding how exactly they wish to implement it, designing it, and whether they want to press the green light for it or not. not necessarily in that order.
TL:DR: i made a sorcerer character that i've had for a very very long time now that if there was a necromancer class in the beginning of the game, i would have chosen that class from the get go, and now that the class is being released, i look upon this character i've had for ages with countless hours drilled into getting certain achievements, gear, cusomizations, crafting lines unlocked, style motifs learned.... all now rendered useless simply because i can't change class. i'd like to see a class change implemented and i'd gladly pay actual money if needbe to be able to.
also as a bonus, although perhaps a terrible reference mmo, maybe. i dunno. i didn't play it much myself, but i have a lot of friends that do, but apparently FFXIV is one of those mmos that allows you to change your class at some point in the game. most other mmos don't allow you to do that (i've heard and noticed) but seeing as eso's been one of those mmos thats "trying to break the mold of what an mmo should be" (and doing a fantastic job at it, if i may add)...... just put two and two together, i shouldn't have to drone on like this and tell you things you can think for yourself. class change. no reason why it cant happen. you made being able to purchase vampirism and lycanthropy a thing, as well as a cure for those now. things you don't even NEED to buy via crowns......... its totally accessable in-game these days...... ..... absolutely no reason why class change can't be treated similarly.
dewit.
just do it.
do it.
make.
it.
happen.

I agree that most people are missing the point here. It's not about leveling characters, that's easy. I have 10 max characters and have been playing since console launch, but because I have a family and job, I really only have time for and like to play on my main character.

For the longest time, I played a dps role (sorc). This was the first character I really got into and leveled in the beginning. This last year, I've been playing a tank. I love tanking, but I would get frustrated that I've tanked on my alt dk and not my main. I can't tell you how many times I thought to myself, "well, now I need to find another group to achieve that same thing on my main!" I recently switched my main (sorc) to a tank and love it, but it is very different in most group mechanics compared to my dk or warden tanks.

The other thing is I, like many of you, love to theory craft. There's been times where I've really wanted to try specific builds with a different class to see how it would perform. And yes, I can do this on alts, but the questions that pop in my head are, "What if I enjoy this playstyle more than my main?" "What if I want to only play this class? "I don't want to start the achievement tracker all over again and I know that in the back of my mind, I'll be thinking about that.

I love the idea of a class change token and starting the class skills at 0 (other skills should be left alone since they're not class specific). I really want to make a necro tank once it is released, but I don't think I'll enjoy it the same because it's not my main.

Some people will abuse this with every patch so that they have the BIS whatever. But I think the majority of us that want this change would only really use it when we wanted to change our personal play style.

Wing wrote: »

however, I do wish class change to become a thing in ESO and would like to put forward some points as to the why and how.

Do you see whats going on with the racial passive changes? Everyone is calling it a cash grab, because they must change all their characters to remain competitive.

Can you imagine what would happen, if there are class change tokens and ZOS is making a greater class balance patch?

An idiot's guide to reasons why we want a class change token.

1. We like our characters' name and look and we don't want to change or loose those aspects. Any marketing idiot worth their salt will tell you that by some of us having a strong attachment to our characters it helps out a company in the long run. Why? Because it's what makes us come back again and again to play and spend more money when new things are added.

2. We don't want to start over on all of the achievements that we have gained with that character since just after the game officially dropped or even from a few months ago. Seriously, some of us don't! We have better things to do! Some of us don't want to grind for "four hours" and gobble up a pile of xp scrolls to level up a character then have to run around for hours more to collect skyshards and ect. It's boring and just burns some of us out. Here's our money to change one thing. Take it please!

3. If the character is our crafter deleting them, given how long it takes to collect furnishing, weapons and armor motifs, is absolutely. Not. An. Option. You think we'd be willing to repurchase motif pages with crowns or even gold? Ha! Um nope. Think again!

4. The only thing we want to change is their class. That's it. We're willing to pay for this and last time I checked if there is a demand it's common sense for a business to provide the product especially if it's digital and no physical materials are needed to create it!

5. Other MMOs provide this option for all the reasons seen above.

So... story Time! I started out thinking this one character, I played on and off since just after release, would make a nice templar. But as the years go by and various goodies are released from the crown store this character evolves a look that reeks of death and rot. I give them a little backstory and even role play with them now and then as a Necromancer. It sucks that I have to just pretend he is one but eh no Necromancer class. What can you do?

Fast forward to June of 2019 and another new class is released and it's... *gasp* Necromancer! Ah yeah! Sweet! But wait, no class change token? What? This doesn't make any sense! B-b-but this is the second new class you've released. Surely you'd want to do this by now and profit from it, right?

"LOL Nope."

...This is not a "LOL Nope" moment devs.

Now I'm stuck with this character I love, I don't want to delete and I can totally see as a Necromancer. And since I already have three other templars losing my forth one to become a Necromancer is no biggie. Oh... if only there was a class change token. Gee if only....

Again LOTS of us are willing to pay for this and we're totally willing to have to start over on leveling class abilities to make it fair.

White wabbit wrote: »

Zos said NO I don't understand why people know what that means !

I'm more surprised by the fact that zos is saying no, despite the community at large basically saying "WE WILL BUY THIS IF IT IS AVAILABLE"

it's almost as if zos is afraid of making easy money....

I really would like a class change. I have like tons of alts. And most of them I can't delete because a) a few are already max level, b) I only have one crafter and she knows most of the motifs even the ones I got from the store and c) the achievements that were attached to them. I don't want to change their race, I want to change their class.

Despite the reactive rejection of some this is a very important topic. It comes up a lot not accidentally but because it's a genuine and well tought out NEED from a considerable portion of the community to have a class change option in ESO.
All the explanations and very sensible suggestions have been listed already on what and how it could be done, I'm just here to give my full support to the case.

I do hope ZoS will change their mind on the subject, there's literally no proper argument why not have an optional class changing system and I'm pretty sure it'd be overly beneficial for the player community as much as financially for ZoS.
The sooner the better.

White wabbit wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Zos said NO I don't understand why people know what that means !

I'm more surprised by the fact that zos is saying no, despite the community at large basically saying "WE WILL BUY THIS IF IT IS AVAILABLE"

it's almost as if zos is afraid of making easy money....

And where do you get your information that most of the community what this as most people in my guilds don't want it

i'll put emphasis on the fact that you mentioned YOUR guild as a reference point to judge what players want and don't want. you're apparently not thinking about the community as a whole and it makes me feel really stupid i even need to say that the entire community is far larger than your guild. Not trying to be incriminating or anything, just pointing out where the majority of us that DO want some sort of class change to be implemented have gathered our information from, which stems from many guilds that do want it, many solo players that do want it.... the list goes on. Of course i have to acknowledge those players that don't want it, they exist... but as far as the majority goes, it seems the community wants class change to be a thing, and we're willing to pay for it if needbe. The number that is for it greatly outweighs those that don't want it, and why wouldn't it? it makes sense to have the ability to change class at this point, and as i've stated before, i don't see any real balance upsets stemming from it, except in the sense where one would change classes when a new one is dropped every time, but as it stands, i highly doubt anything major balance wise would be upset by allowing one to change their class, as it stands one simply could make a new character and while it takes time, people in this thread have stated it before... its easy to level back up and get to the point it would be a 'balance upset' issue with a different character..... so it really wouldn't make a difference..... which brings me to WHY we want this, as i and a few others have stated, its more for... sentimental value in some cases, achievement profiles, the fact that not all of us just play the game for "LOL, PVP" because the game is far larger than that, and many of us have grown attached to the characters we have created and the accomplishments they have made, and ESPECIALLY in necromancers case.... i'm just gonna flat out say that a lot of us made sorcerers simply because we wanted to make a necromancer type character and at the time it wasn't available, and now that a necromancer class is being released with Elsweyr.... its nearly a slap in the face to a plethora of those players that have been working with a character for a long time to not allow class change. again, thats not even mentioning the fact it would be a BENEFIT to implement such a paid class change system financially for ZOS. it doesn't make any sense NOT to implement it. there's very little in the way of arguments that could make it a bad thing, other than "well, some of us players don't really care" and the fact it would take (minimal) time to actually implement. its a no-brainer.

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Didn't watch Elsweyr ESO live? They flat out said this is not something they are at all interested in doing.

The end.

Agreed, and it was a recent one too - not "ages past" as someone claimed earlier.

I'm a mag warden and would seriously consider changing class if class change tokens were a thing.
I do feel neglected and it isn't the same class anymore.
But i i have invested so much into it that i now feel starting another toon would be a complete waste.

FauxHunter wrote: »

I can list some I have played here for you that have Class Change features:
SWG, FF11, FF14, Secret World, Asheron's Call, EVE Online, Arcage, DCUO, Lineage 2, Skyforge, Firefall, etc...

I'm immediately suspicious of this list as TSW, very specifically, has a non-class based system. I'm less certain, but from what I remember, EVE is a similar story. FF14 uses a dynamic class swapping system as I recall, so it has classes, but they're chosen to fit the moment.

DCUO has class change tokens, that one I can confirm, however, it also has achievements that require you to use specific classes. Because that's what we really want to encourage (play your character as a nightblade for this achievement, but a templar for that one.)