scaling in the game has gone broken IMO

BoneShatterer · December 2018

hey all, returning player in here, no thanks to bethesdas email system failing on me.....

i will get hate from die hard fans but who cares

i switched games a little during the past years, i mostly played eso until orsinium and FF14....

i love what ESO has become, i never get tired of the action, and also FF14, cant hatesometing that had us hooked for 30 years, but i came to notice that what lacks in eso is found in ff14 and what lacks in FF14 is found in ESO..sweet irony

i noticecd that ESO upscaled their chars to cp160 with the skills and dps capacity of a character with the skills of their levels lets say 6 for the example....
while FF14 downscales their higher levels, only in instances and worldbosses...

lets say i make a char, level 1... i have the dps output of a CP160 but only have 1 skill that does virtually nothing so im ending up with a very restricted amount of damage output on everything in the game random trash monsters, camps, grind spots and instances that are supposed to be level 9 but are now CP160, worldbosses that are in a level 1 zone but are now CP160

if i want to try snapjaw or spindelclutch , AD worldboss used to be level 8 encouter from memory but is now CP160 AT level 7..... there is a 153 level difference and i will be teamed up with people being decked out with CP160 legendary gears and cp700+ wich means i have no rush of instances challenge or difficulty because its too easy. My last group, 11-30-2018, cleared spindelclutch 2 normal in less than 10 minutes because we had someone doing a quest

IF

i go in FF14 and do the same the concept is spinned backwards. the higher levels are downscaled for worldbosses and instance ONLY. the rest of the map is untouched meaning that if you are CP160 in a level 8 zone YOU REMAIN 160 UNTIL you get to a worldboss or instance: gears are reduced stats to match the instances highest possible level for example a level 9 instance with a level range of level 7 to 12.. will have his gear stats, skills reduced to level 12, to match the level range of the instance or world boss to offer low level chars or new players a chance to get a rush from the dungeon or worldboss..

also tutorial wise.... thats my point of view and may offend some easyly offended people... but TUTORIAL COMPLETLY SUCKS NOW!!!!

at the start , when i came to play eso 4 years ago, i had to escape coldharbor to start my journey into beating the crap out of molag bal and his employees but now... with the new trend of making us start in the end content... I , has a returning player and also new players that i have met are completly at loss because there is too much stuff going on and we are left clueless surrounded with bots spamming press g c q l k or what ever letter in chat to get a bot invite to a worldboss..... then once we are done with the current end content story mode we are invited to start the tutorial of the oginial plot story coldharbor> main scenario >guilds> civil war> and so on until the end content wich is already cleared.. took me 10 days IRL to beat that freakking jabba the hut parody in the story line of summerset because the stats that we have are not on par with the content.

cant bethesda //zenimax, inc rage train from people, actually manage to give us ONE tutorial instead of 1 for each dlc that we own?

my suggestion for bethesda // zenimax in the event that they wont try to fix this scaling issue would be to make all created characters cp160 with matching gears skill and CP upon creation.

i will not reply or answer to people raging or attempts to troll.

Facefister · December 2018

Well, this isn't FF.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Well, this isn't FF.

true but sadly enough every mmos copyed a part of every other mmos.

mud > uo> eq>wow> swg> ao> matrix> vanguard> aion> eq2 > ff1 > ff14 >eso and so on have all copyed from other mmos.

even level scaling was a copyed idea that was born on sega CD with lunar the silver star, then borrowed by Se in fft and ff8 then copyed by bethesda for skyrim and eso...

i cant change history but i can suggest something that could be interesting to try

VaranisArano · December 2018

Quite agree on the awesomeness of the Coldharbor tutorial.

One Tamriel opened up the whole world through battleleveling, which as you described, scales players up to CP 160 with extra benefits based on their gear. As you level and gain more skills, those benefits diminish.

I far prefer the current method to ESO's old method of railroading player through leveled zones that we soon outleveled. It does mean that, yes, we lost a certain sense of progression - and to some degree that rush or challenge - but we gained the ability to go anywhere and do anything without being railroaded or dealing with artificial miss chances.

Moreover, additions since One Tamriel like the emphasis on Undaunted Pledges, new dungeons, BOP dungeon gear, and the Daily Random Normal make it hard to implement your suggestion of copying how FF does it.

Linaleah · December 2018

SWTOR also scales you down and does GW2 and.. meh. personaly I much MUCH prefer what ESO does becasue as Varanis above said - it gives us freedom to go anywhere and do anything. I never got into final fantasy singleplayer or otherwise (maker knows I tried its just.. not the games for me for many reasons), but I did play GW2 very actively for couple of years and... GW2 only clicked for me, really clicked for me, when they gave up level boosts on a first anniversary. and what that meant is that I no longer had areas in a single zone that were too high level for me and for a game that encourages exploration like GW2 does - this was crucial. ESO is another such game. while there are very clear continuous story lines, its also still and ES games, so being able to just go in whatever direction you feel like and be able to enjoy it - is crucial. ESO didn't genuinely click for me until one tamriel, so personaly I would HATE to see it go.

P.S. one of the reasons your dungeons are doing extra quickly right now is becasue there is an event going on so people who would otherwise stay in veteran difficulty - are running normal dungeons becasue they are faster.

karekiz · December 2018

They wanted Elder scrolls Online to feel like Elder scrolls. Can't really fault them for that...

BoneShatterer · December 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Quite agree on the awesomeness of the Coldharbor tutorial.

I far prefer the current method to ESO's old method of railroading player through leveled zones that we soon out leveled. It does mean that, yes, we lost a certain sense of progression - and to some degree that rush or challenge - but we gained the ability to go anywhere and do anything without being railroaded or dealing with artificial miss chances.

Basicly you are railroaded, you cant really complete the main scenario quests, guild line quests, civil war quests. unless you follow a certain pattern otherwise it makes no sense. the best examples i can come up with are the LOTR movies and hairy putter....

lets watch the LOTR story line
logical common sense line = hobbit> smaug > 5 armies > fellowship of the ring > two towers > return of the king
tamriel one = return of the king > smaug > felloship of the ring > 5 armies > the hobbit an unexpected journey > two towers.

but the story line still remains that unless bilbo grabs the one ring from gollum in the hobbit... frodo will never get the quest to destroy it in the fellowship of the ring

before i get more rage over this:

unless you escape from cold harbor you wont get the quest line to beat the crap out of molag bal.... if you don't hit the guild mage, fighter, thief or undaunted for the main quest you will never get to the end of the quest line..

a story does imply that you need to follow a certain road in order to complete it. Wich does not happen with tamriel one.
even in skyrim, oblivion or morrowind with all map access you are still sent on a straight line quest to complete the story line of the game. you wont be able to access sovngard in skyrim if you don't complete the previous events that leads to this specific moment.

tamriel one also does kill the fun of doing normal > silver > gold quest mode. my point of view. like it or not that's a fact.

also scaling is still broken... shouldn't work that way, leave the game zones untouched, that way new players can enjoy the game the way it should be, not how the money burners want it to be.

Juhasow · December 2018

This is not how scaling in ESO works. Low level characters can reach higher stats then maxed out ones because they have much higher scaling which is ment to compensate lower levels of skill lines and lower amount of skill points and frankly does that job well. As lv 1 You have the strongest scaling and it drops down slowly up to lv 50. For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points on level 15+ it started to take less then 90 seconds.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

RebornV3x · December 2018

I skimmed most of this thread pretty much 95% of this game is either way to easy or way too hard

Secondly the tutorials have always sucked ESO deliberately hides critical needed information from the player especially if you play without add ons. without YouTube most of the player base would be completely lost and unable to do endgame stuff

Ydrisselle · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Quite agree on the awesomeness of the Coldharbor tutorial.

I far prefer the current method to ESO's old method of railroading player through leveled zones that we soon out leveled. It does mean that, yes, we lost a certain sense of progression - and to some degree that rush or challenge - but we gained the ability to go anywhere and do anything without being railroaded or dealing with artificial miss chances.

Basicly you are railroaded, you cant really complete the main scenario quests, guild line quests, civil war quests. unless you follow a certain pattern otherwise it makes no sense. the best examples i can come up with are the LOTR movies and hairy putter....

lets watch the LOTR story line
logical common sense line = hobbit> smaug > 5 armies > fellowship of the ring > two towers > return of the king
tamriel one = return of the king > smaug > felloship of the ring > 5 armies > the hobbit an unexpected journey > two towers.

but the story line still remains that unless bilbo grabs the one ring from gollum in the hobbit... frodo will never get the quest to destroy it in the fellowship of the ring

before i get more rage over this:

unless you escape from cold harbor you wont get the quest line to beat the crap out of molag bal.... if you don't hit the guild mage, fighter, thief or undaunted for the main quest you will never get to the end of the quest line..

a story does imply that you need to follow a certain road in order to complete it. Wich does not happen with tamriel one.
even in skyrim, oblivion or morrowind with all map access you are still sent on a straight line quest to complete the story line of the game. you wont be able to access sovngard in skyrim if you don't complete the previous events that leads to this specific moment.

tamriel one also does kill the fun of doing normal > silver > gold quest mode. my point of view. like it or not that's a fact.

also scaling is still broken... shouldn't work that way, leave the game zones untouched, that way new players can enjoy the game the way it should be, not how the money burners want it to be.

You still can do Coldharbour early: after you finish the Summerset tutorial, teleport to your starting zone (Stonefalls/Auridon/Glenumbra), speak with the Hooded Figure, and you are soon sacrificed and sent to Coldharbour. But this is not really told to a new player in-game.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

You still can do Coldharbour early: after you finish the Summerset tutorial, teleport to your starting zone (Stonefalls/Auridon/Glenumbra), speak with the Hooded Figure, and you are soon sacrificed and sent to Coldharbour. But this is not really told to a new player in-game.

and where do you see this information in the game? nowhere sadly. you clear the tutorial of the latest DLC and you are sent right into a cp160 questline at level 3 at best with the stats of a cp160 but with the dps output skills of a level 3 im sure that the armor buff from a dk is going to give you insane killing power at level 5 versus a cp160+ WB in summerset

@RebornV3x nothing is hard in ESO, never was, its only hard because players have become to lazy and they discovered in wow that complaining gets the job done

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

JKorr · December 2018

And?

Other players have posted the opposite; they started the game and find they have problems and die a lot. No matter which button they mash. Not everyone will have the same level of experience, or expectation.

I made a couple of new characters recently. Even though I've been playing and have gotten the hang of the game, it is taking more effort than "mashing #1 button" to get things to die. Granted, my new characters don't die often, but then I have maxed crafters for making gear/glyphs/food to help.

If you truly find the game so incredibly easy and boring, perhaps a different game would suit you better? One of the Dark Souls, perhaps?

BoneShatterer · December 2018

JKorr wrote: »

And?

Other players have posted the opposite; they started the game and find they have problems and die a lot. No matter which button they mash. Not everyone will have the same level of experience, or expectation.

I made a couple of new characters recently. Even though I've been playing and have gotten the hang of the game, it is taking more effort than "mashing #1 button" to get things to die. Granted, my new characters don't die often, but then I have maxed crafters for making gear/glyphs/food to help.

If you truly find the game so incredibly easy and boring, perhaps a different game would suit you better? One of the Dark Souls, perhaps?

me thinks i lured a die hard fan

FROM 4 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!
almost LAUNCH TIME!!!! this is some time ago honestly and with your new chars ....you clearly do not know how the game works amirite? obviously after all those years of game time i'm sure none of your chars have access to master crafters and 800 CP to increase their overall prowess in combat.
and im also very sure that you do not have tons of crowns saved up to help your chars amirite?

you should walk a mille in a new players shoes

mocap · December 2018

absolutely briliant idea was here, just add a buff (or more like debuff) via usable altar/scroll/whatever for 1-2 hours:
- reduce your damage done by 50% or even harder version and 75%
- increase damage receive by 50% (or optional 75%)

no world instances like before OT, no CP realloc, no gear switch (no "play naked" BS advices, lol).
New players happy, masochist vet players happy! Everyone happy!

Narvuntien · December 2018

I am sorry but I didn't understand what you just said. I haven't played ff14 so I can't work out what you are talking about.

But I would like the game to be harder for cp810 characters because I could these random normal dungeons with my eyes closed and if I am doing overland (non world bosses) everything just explodes with a single ability.

I mean the good thing about ESO at least is that the quests are good so I am not too fussed that its too easy but at the same time though I can easily power through some things with brute force rather than having to think about mechanics and I want to do the mechanics but I just do too much damage and take too little.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am sorry but I didn't understand what you just said. I haven't played ff14 so I can't work out what you are talking about.

But I would like the game to be harder for cp810 characters because I could these random normal dungeons with my eyes closed and if I am doing overland (non world bosses) everything just explodes with a single ability.

I mean the good thing about ESO at least is that the quests are good so I am not too fussed that its too easy but at the same time though I can easily power through some things with brute force rather than having to think about mechanics and I want to do the mechanics but I just do too much damage and take too little.

this comment will probably be deleted very fast so be quick since bethesda and forums admin will not appreciate im sure of it.

im a putting this link in the video as to describe what downscaling means nothing else i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07aQ9whXe5c

the link included is from FF14 a dungeon named sastasha a minimum level of 15 dungeon with a max level acceptance of level 18, if higher you are downscaled to 18 to let lower level chars///new players enjoy the dungeon the way it was meant to be . its completed by a level 50 character that was downscaled to level 18... stats and combat skills are scaled to match those of a player of this level so it remains challenging

BoneShatterer · December 2018

karekiz wrote: »

They wanted Elder scrolls Online to feel like Elder scrolls. Can't really fault them for that...

also TES games are level scaled up to a point, a giant has a player level of 32... you wont see a level 1 giant or a level 1 ancient dragon that would be completly ridiculous. but thats how it is bethesdsa did level scale to a minimum level requirement in order to make sure that would you actually either level enogh to be able to deal with the issue OR manage to find a way to work around an issue... they know that at level 17 you wont be able to win against a level 50 dwemer robot and they knwo you wont have to work around an issue when you end up being able to one shot a level 78 dragon.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · December 2018

Biggest turn off of the FFxiv scaling system is loosing skills when scaling down. The ESO way of upscaling stats and GW2 way of downscaling stats, without losing any available skills, are much better.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Biggest turn off of the FFxiv scaling system is loosing skills when scaling down. The ESO way of upscaling stats and GW2 way of downscaling stats, without losing any available skills, are much better.

more or less becaue when you did the instance the first time at level 15 ? you didnt have the skills of a 50 and made it so why wouldnt you be able to complete it without them now that you are 50 and are downscaled back to 18?

Zorgon_The_Revenged · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Biggest turn off of the FFxiv scaling system is loosing skills when scaling down. The ESO way of upscaling stats and GW2 way of downscaling stats, without losing any available skills, are much better.

more or less becaue when you did the instance the first time at level 15 ? you didnt have the skills of a 50 and made it so why wouldnt you be able to complete it without them now that you are 50 and are downscaled back to 18?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed FFxiv enough to get Summoner, Paladin and Red Mage jobs to around lvl68 and the rest to lvl15-35. But low level combat was soooo tedious. After hearing the same "boo-tick, dibiby-boop" sounding rotation of skill fx 1000 times I start to feel like I'm loosing my mind.

Juhasow · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

You dont need 5 years of experience to beat overland/normal dungeons. You need like 5 days of learning the game and most of that content is already easy. Of course by learning I dont mean watching 30 minutes video of someone and skipping just to most important moments while later trying to copy paste incomplete infos from that video and failing. I am pretty sure I would be able to teach new player how to solo bosses on low level in few hours.There is plenty of guides etc so learning how to play is not anymore hard even by a tiny bit compared to what it used to be when game started and everyone was a noob. Downscaled stats wouldnt work in ESO simply because You could still bring max lv sets with You plus have CPs behind You. Boring/not boring is subjective opinion something that You consider boring many eople will find interresting/helpfull. Also if certain PvP campaign would remain to be open for everyone it would look super wierd with max lv characters being downscaled (to what level You would even downscale them?), what would be even the point of progression if You would be downscaled there ? And if You would want to keep upscaled people in pvp and downscaled in PvE that would make even less sense. Upscaling Is much more efficient way for the ESO the downscaling would be. This game is not FFXIV and You cannot compare them. FF is much more instance based which helps to implement downscaling where ESO is much more open space based so downscaling simply wouldnt work.

Also I want to add to Your previous comment that when level 7 fights some mob there isnt 153 levels difference between them. Champion points are not levels.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

Seriously 200 milions ppl in FFXIV ? Are You on drugs ? Even devs of the game never claimed number remotly close to that. Even WoW never reached that numbers. Both games ESO and FFXIV were celebrating 10 milions players achievement last year and if You'll look for actual players numbers in internet You'll realize ESO is not that far behind maybe even ahead at some point of the year. On steam charts for example ESO have almost 2x more active players then FF.

VaranisArano · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Biggest turn off of the FFxiv scaling system is loosing skills when scaling down. The ESO way of upscaling stats and GW2 way of downscaling stats, without losing any available skills, are much better.

more or less becaue when you did the instance the first time at level 15 ? you didnt have the skills of a 50 and made it so why wouldnt you be able to complete it without them now that you are 50 and are downscaled back to 18?

I could complete the dungeon with the skills of a level 15, yeah. It's not as nice as it could be as a DD, but it can be done, certainly.

There's a big difference, however, between taking my actual level 26 stam sorc into a dungeon and taking my max CP stam Sorc into a dungeon.

My max CP Stam Sorc would have to reset all of her skills, under your system. Because my Stam Sorc's rotation of mixing light attacks with:

Crit Surge, Hurricane, Endless Hail, Caltrops, Trap Beast. poison arrow, bar swap, rending slashes, Shrouded Daggers x3 repeat as needed...

Would be screwed.

Basically, ESO is currently designed so that every class has a rotation of DOT and single target skills they run to produce their DPS. Bust that back down to level 18, level 25, level 44, whatever, and that's going to get annoying having to reset my bars and relearn a rotation every single time I want to do a dungeon. Because there still is a rotation at level 18, 25, whatever, its just different.

Having to reset my bars every single time I run a dungeon to match its level, whether that's as a DD, a Healer, or a Tank, would be annoying AF for me.

And that's not every getting to things like Fighters Guild, Undaunted, or Alliance War skills - which technically aren't tied to your level. The Devs would have to tie those to levels under your system instead of player effort. Or things meant to encourage all levels of players up to max CP to do dungeons, like the Undaunted Event, Pledges, and BOP dungeon gear.

Your suggestion would require an entire rework of the game for it to even make sense, obviously, and frankly, its not a revamp I'm interested in playing.

ESO works one way
You want it to work entirely differently.

Unless the Devs go for a full revamp a la One Tamriel, its not going to happen.

Which is a good thing, IMO. ESO does not need to be entirely revamped for the benefit of players running their first dungeon. There's an easy solution to wanting to run dungeons with like-leveled individuals - put out a call in zone or guild chat about it.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Biggest turn off of the FFxiv scaling system is loosing skills when scaling down. The ESO way of upscaling stats and GW2 way of downscaling stats, without losing any available skills, are much better.

more or less becaue when you did the instance the first time at level 15 ? you didnt have the skills of a 50 and made it so why wouldnt you be able to complete it without them now that you are 50 and are downscaled back to 18?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed FFxiv enough to get Summoner, Paladin and Red Mage jobs to around lvl68 and the rest to lvl15-35. But low level combat was soooo tedious. After hearing the same "boo-tick, dibiby-boop" sounding rotation of skill fx 1000 times I start to feel like I'm loosing my mind.

its the same sound effect from level 1 to cp810 in eso as well xD

BoneShatterer · December 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

You dont need 5 years of experience to beat overland/normal dungeons. You need like 5 days of learning the game and most of that content is already easy. Of course by learning I dont mean watching 30 minutes video of someone and skipping just to most important moments while later trying to copy paste incomplete infos from that video and failing. I am pretty sure I would be able to teach new player how to solo bosses on low level in few hours.There is plenty of guides etc so learning how to play is not anymore hard even by a tiny bit compared to what it used to be when game started and everyone was a noob. Downscaled stats wouldnt work in ESO simply because You could still bring max lv sets with You plus have CPs behind You. Boring/not boring is subjective opinion something that You consider boring many eople will find interresting/helpfull. Also if certain PvP campaign would remain to be open for everyone it would look super wierd with max lv characters being downscaled (to what level You would even downscale them?), what would be even the point of progression if You would be downscaled there ? And if You would want to keep upscaled people in pvp and downscaled in PvE that would make even less sense. Upscaling Is much more efficient way for the ESO the downscaling would be. This game is not FFXIV and You cannot compare them. FF is much more instance based which helps to implement downscaling where ESO is much more open space based so downscaling simply wouldnt work.

Also I want to add to Your previous comment that when level 7 fights some mob there isnt 153 levels difference between them. Champion points are not levels.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

Seriously 200 milions ppl in FFXIV ? Are You on drugs ? Even devs of the game never claimed number remotly close to that. Even WoW never reached that numbers. Both games ESO and FFXIV were celebrating 10 milions players achievement last year and if You'll look for actual players numbers in internet You'll realize ESO is not that far behind maybe even ahead at some point of the year. On steam charts for example ESO have almost 2x more active players then FF.

do the math of each country, im pretty we can reach that amount only in jpan it must be sick

VaranisArano · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

You dont need 5 years of experience to beat overland/normal dungeons. You need like 5 days of learning the game and most of that content is already easy. Of course by learning I dont mean watching 30 minutes video of someone and skipping just to most important moments while later trying to copy paste incomplete infos from that video and failing. I am pretty sure I would be able to teach new player how to solo bosses on low level in few hours.There is plenty of guides etc so learning how to play is not anymore hard even by a tiny bit compared to what it used to be when game started and everyone was a noob. Downscaled stats wouldnt work in ESO simply because You could still bring max lv sets with You plus have CPs behind You. Boring/not boring is subjective opinion something that You consider boring many eople will find interresting/helpfull. Also if certain PvP campaign would remain to be open for everyone it would look super wierd with max lv characters being downscaled (to what level You would even downscale them?), what would be even the point of progression if You would be downscaled there ? And if You would want to keep upscaled people in pvp and downscaled in PvE that would make even less sense. Upscaling Is much more efficient way for the ESO the downscaling would be. This game is not FFXIV and You cannot compare them. FF is much more instance based which helps to implement downscaling where ESO is much more open space based so downscaling simply wouldnt work.

Also I want to add to Your previous comment that when level 7 fights some mob there isnt 153 levels difference between them. Champion points are not levels.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

Seriously 200 milions ppl in FFXIV ? Are You on drugs ? Even devs of the game never claimed number remotly close to that. Even WoW never reached that numbers. Both games ESO and FFXIV were celebrating 10 milions players achievement last year and if You'll look for actual players numbers in internet You'll realize ESO is not that far behind maybe even ahead at some point of the year. On steam charts for example ESO have almost 2x more active players then FF.

do the math of each country, im pretty we can reach that amount only in jpan it must be sick

Characters and active characters: https://ffxivcensus.com

10 mil cumulative accounts (including free trials) as of Aug 2017: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-08-over-10m-people-have-played-final-fantasy-14

So unless FFXIV gained 190 million players in the last year, which would have been huge news, no, this is pure silliness. Which makes it extremely hard to take you or your ideas seriously.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Biggest turn off of the FFxiv scaling system is loosing skills when scaling down. The ESO way of upscaling stats and GW2 way of downscaling stats, without losing any available skills, are much better.

more or less becaue when you did the instance the first time at level 15 ? you didnt have the skills of a 50 and made it so why wouldnt you be able to complete it without them now that you are 50 and are downscaled back to 18?

I could complete the dungeon with the skills of a level 15, yeah. It's not as nice as it could be as a DD, but it can be done, certainly.

There's a big difference, however, between taking my actual level 26 stam sorc into a dungeon and taking my max CP stam Sorc into a dungeon.

My max CP Stam Sorc would have to reset all of her skills, under your system. Because my Stam Sorc's rotation of mixing light attacks with:

Crit Surge, Hurricane, Endless Hail, Caltrops, Trap Beast. poison arrow, bar swap, rending slashes, Shrouded Daggers x3 repeat as needed...

Would be screwed.

Basically, ESO is currently designed so that every class has a rotation of DOT and single target skills they run to produce their DPS. Bust that back down to level 18, level 25, level 44, whatever, and that's going to get annoying having to reset my bars and relearn a rotation every single time I want to do a dungeon. Because there still is a rotation at level 18, 25, whatever, its just different.

Having to reset my bars every single time I run a dungeon to match its level, whether that's as a DD, a Healer, or a Tank, would be annoying AF for me.

And that's not every getting to things like Fighters Guild, Undaunted, or Alliance War skills - which technically aren't tied to your level. The Devs would have to tie those to levels under your system instead of player effort. Or things meant to encourage all levels of players up to max CP to do dungeons, like the Undaunted Event, Pledges, and BOP dungeon gear.

Your suggestion would require an entire rework of the game for it to even make sense, obviously, and frankly, its not a revamp I'm interested in playing.

ESO works one way
You want it to work entirely differently.

Unless the Devs go for a full revamp a la One Tamriel, its not going to happen.

Which is a good thing, IMO. ESO does not need to be entirely revamped for the benefit of players running their first dungeon. There's an easy solution to wanting to run dungeons with like-leveled individuals - put out a call in zone or guild chat about it.

why would you have to reset them? if you look closely at the video i linked, wich is how downscaling is working, you only lose a part of your skills for the duration of the instance or wb, nothing else. people in ff14 dont have to do jacks the system actually beats everything down to whats needed then once the instance is done you get back to where you were before getting in the instance. and plz keep in mind...in ESO you are level 26 once, thats when you make your first char. afterward hes going to be a CP based char no mather how you want to look at it. no matter how hard you defend it or deny scream rage you are level 26 only once in ESO after that your next char is level 1-49 cp XXX until bethesda ends the game.

also rotation under cp160 = press 1-2-3-summon a pet cast a buff

bind on pick up gears gave been there for the past 20 years , its not like eso invented them, even less creativity with tradeadble bop gears wich came from wow, they were there long before eso and will be there long after ESO has died.

and no, i only suggested to test things out. nothing wrong with trying new things.

but i did find another die hard

BoneShatterer · December 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

You dont need 5 years of experience to beat overland/normal dungeons. You need like 5 days of learning the game and most of that content is already easy. Of course by learning I dont mean watching 30 minutes video of someone and skipping just to most important moments while later trying to copy paste incomplete infos from that video and failing. I am pretty sure I would be able to teach new player how to solo bosses on low level in few hours.There is plenty of guides etc so learning how to play is not anymore hard even by a tiny bit compared to what it used to be when game started and everyone was a noob. Downscaled stats wouldnt work in ESO simply because You could still bring max lv sets with You plus have CPs behind You. Boring/not boring is subjective opinion something that You consider boring many eople will find interresting/helpfull. Also if certain PvP campaign would remain to be open for everyone it would look super wierd with max lv characters being downscaled (to what level You would even downscale them?), what would be even the point of progression if You would be downscaled there ? And if You would want to keep upscaled people in pvp and downscaled in PvE that would make even less sense. Upscaling Is much more efficient way for the ESO the downscaling would be. This game is not FFXIV and You cannot compare them. FF is much more instance based which helps to implement downscaling where ESO is much more open space based so downscaling simply wouldnt work.

Also I want to add to Your previous comment that when level 7 fights some mob there isnt 153 levels difference between them. Champion points are not levels.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

Seriously 200 milions ppl in FFXIV ? Are You on drugs ? Even devs of the game never claimed number remotly close to that. Even WoW never reached that numbers. Both games ESO and FFXIV were celebrating 10 milions players achievement last year and if You'll look for actual players numbers in internet You'll realize ESO is not that far behind maybe even ahead at some point of the year. On steam charts for example ESO have almost 2x more active players then FF.

do the math of each country, im pretty we can reach that amount only in jpan it must be sick

Characters and active characters: https://ffxivcensus.com

10 mil cumulative accounts (including free trials) as of Aug 2017: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-08-over-10m-people-have-played-final-fantasy-14

So unless FFXIV gained 190 million players in the last year, which would have been huge news, no, this is pure silliness. Which makes it extremely hard to take you or your ideas seriously.

i was expecting more player from japan but hey judging me over miss calculation.. you must really hate me because i pointed out something that only the die hards love

Juhasow · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

You dont need 5 years of experience to beat overland/normal dungeons. You need like 5 days of learning the game and most of that content is already easy. Of course by learning I dont mean watching 30 minutes video of someone and skipping just to most important moments while later trying to copy paste incomplete infos from that video and failing. I am pretty sure I would be able to teach new player how to solo bosses on low level in few hours.There is plenty of guides etc so learning how to play is not anymore hard even by a tiny bit compared to what it used to be when game started and everyone was a noob. Downscaled stats wouldnt work in ESO simply because You could still bring max lv sets with You plus have CPs behind You. Boring/not boring is subjective opinion something that You consider boring many eople will find interresting/helpfull. Also if certain PvP campaign would remain to be open for everyone it would look super wierd with max lv characters being downscaled (to what level You would even downscale them?), what would be even the point of progression if You would be downscaled there ? And if You would want to keep upscaled people in pvp and downscaled in PvE that would make even less sense. Upscaling Is much more efficient way for the ESO the downscaling would be. This game is not FFXIV and You cannot compare them. FF is much more instance based which helps to implement downscaling where ESO is much more open space based so downscaling simply wouldnt work.

Also I want to add to Your previous comment that when level 7 fights some mob there isnt 153 levels difference between them. Champion points are not levels.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

Seriously 200 milions ppl in FFXIV ? Are You on drugs ? Even devs of the game never claimed number remotly close to that. Even WoW never reached that numbers. Both games ESO and FFXIV were celebrating 10 milions players achievement last year and if You'll look for actual players numbers in internet You'll realize ESO is not that far behind maybe even ahead at some point of the year. On steam charts for example ESO have almost 2x more active players then FF.

do the math of each country, im pretty we can reach that amount only in jpan it must be sick

You know to do the math first it would be nice to collect some data to base that math on. I think You missed that part and just went full imagination mode. Like seriously claims that there is 200 milions players in some MMO means someone who claims that never did any research on population numbers in MMO games. Side note , Japan have ~127 milions ppl.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

You dont need 5 years of experience to beat overland/normal dungeons. You need like 5 days of learning the game and most of that content is already easy. Of course by learning I dont mean watching 30 minutes video of someone and skipping just to most important moments while later trying to copy paste incomplete infos from that video and failing. I am pretty sure I would be able to teach new player how to solo bosses on low level in few hours.There is plenty of guides etc so learning how to play is not anymore hard even by a tiny bit compared to what it used to be when game started and everyone was a noob. Downscaled stats wouldnt work in ESO simply because You could still bring max lv sets with You plus have CPs behind You. Boring/not boring is subjective opinion something that You consider boring many eople will find interresting/helpfull. Also if certain PvP campaign would remain to be open for everyone it would look super wierd with max lv characters being downscaled (to what level You would even downscale them?), what would be even the point of progression if You would be downscaled there ? And if You would want to keep upscaled people in pvp and downscaled in PvE that would make even less sense. Upscaling Is much more efficient way for the ESO the downscaling would be. This game is not FFXIV and You cannot compare them. FF is much more instance based which helps to implement downscaling where ESO is much more open space based so downscaling simply wouldnt work.

Also I want to add to Your previous comment that when level 7 fights some mob there isnt 153 levels difference between them. Champion points are not levels.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

Seriously 200 milions ppl in FFXIV ? Are You on drugs ? Even devs of the game never claimed number remotly close to that. Even WoW never reached that numbers. Both games ESO and FFXIV were celebrating 10 milions players achievement last year and if You'll look for actual players numbers in internet You'll realize ESO is not that far behind maybe even ahead at some point of the year. On steam charts for example ESO have almost 2x more active players then FF.

do the math of each country, im pretty we can reach that amount only in jpan it must be sick

You know to do the math first it would be nice to collect some data. I think You missed that part and just went full imagination mode. Like seriously claims that there is 200 milions players at some MMO means someone who claims that never did any research on population numbers in MMO games.

you should read my previous reply since i just admitted i misscalculated and also that i was expecting more from jp players since they are life or death over FF title. but still

#scalingishorribleinESO

VaranisArano · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

and we all come to the game with 5 years of experience when we create our first character? always consider that the player who just bought the game does not have 5 years of easymode ESO experience, and please do keep in mind that upscaled stats are actually quite boring. its kind of lame to give players the obligation to have crazy high stats. no challenge and also: the game is already easy : press the keys numbered from 1 to 3 and you can kill the entire game. im maining a templar and i created a NB like 1 hour ago... im mashing #1 button on my keyboard and everything dies... whats so hard about this?

You dont need 5 years of experience to beat overland/normal dungeons. You need like 5 days of learning the game and most of that content is already easy. Of course by learning I dont mean watching 30 minutes video of someone and skipping just to most important moments while later trying to copy paste incomplete infos from that video and failing. I am pretty sure I would be able to teach new player how to solo bosses on low level in few hours.There is plenty of guides etc so learning how to play is not anymore hard even by a tiny bit compared to what it used to be when game started and everyone was a noob. Downscaled stats wouldnt work in ESO simply because You could still bring max lv sets with You plus have CPs behind You. Boring/not boring is subjective opinion something that You consider boring many eople will find interresting/helpfull. Also if certain PvP campaign would remain to be open for everyone it would look super wierd with max lv characters being downscaled (to what level You would even downscale them?), what would be even the point of progression if You would be downscaled there ? And if You would want to keep upscaled people in pvp and downscaled in PvE that would make even less sense. Upscaling Is much more efficient way for the ESO the downscaling would be. This game is not FFXIV and You cannot compare them. FF is much more instance based which helps to implement downscaling where ESO is much more open space based so downscaling simply wouldnt work.

Also I want to add to Your previous comment that when level 7 fights some mob there isnt 153 levels difference between them. Champion points are not levels.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i do not try to poach players from eso since ff14 has over 200 million players world wide and i dont think 1000 be of any use.

Seriously 200 milions ppl in FFXIV ? Are You on drugs ? Even devs of the game never claimed number remotly close to that. Even WoW never reached that numbers. Both games ESO and FFXIV were celebrating 10 milions players achievement last year and if You'll look for actual players numbers in internet You'll realize ESO is not that far behind maybe even ahead at some point of the year. On steam charts for example ESO have almost 2x more active players then FF.

do the math of each country, im pretty we can reach that amount only in jpan it must be sick

Characters and active characters: https://ffxivcensus.com

10 mil cumulative accounts (including free trials) as of Aug 2017: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-08-over-10m-people-have-played-final-fantasy-14

So unless FFXIV gained 190 million players in the last year, which would have been huge news, no, this is pure silliness. Which makes it extremely hard to take you or your ideas seriously.

i was expecting more player from japan but hey judging me over miss calculation.. you must really hate me because i pointed out something that only the die hards love

Hate you, no. I do, however, enjoy accuracy when it comes to stats and things that are easily fact checked with Google.

As for scaling, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

ATomiX96 · December 2018

BoneShatterer wrote: »

i will get hate from die hard fans but who cares

You CANNOT be that diehard fanboyish that you still defend the developers and the current state of the game, the game just has gone to *** since they are trying to appeal to the super casual audience which will drop hundreds of dollars into cosmetics (and lootboxes which will hopefully get banned soon in EU).
My personal recommendation, dont bother playing the game until something major happens.
I gave it a try (again...) after a 6 month break and it still has the same problems / more new problems.
Endgame scene is dying due to way too less content and powercreep.
PVP is only getting changed to appeal more to Zerglings and Large Groups.
Just cant be bothered to login anymore as long as the Dev Team merely focuses on cashgrabbing.

inb4 removed because ZOS cant take criticism (and the truth)