scaling in the game has gone broken IMO

D0PAMINE

I like the scaling. I have 4 times the cp as the players I run with and they're leveling up new characters, so I can help them in lots of ways, and we can still murder stuff.

Linaleah

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

BoneShatterer

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

and where did you see me say WORD FOR WORD that i want eso to become FF14? eso has copyed every bits of every mmos available to and layered skyrim content on top. and honestly, im not the only one complaining about scaling or CP being abusive.

a change // modification // a nerfing nuclear bomb or even its removal of the cp and that wretched level scaling that wasnt th3re until orsinium came out could be required in order to balance the game out. we didnt need CP 5 years ago and we did fine

Linaleah

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

and where did you see me say WORD FOR WORD that i want eso to become FF14? eso has copyed every bits of every mmos available to and layered skyrim content on top. and honestly, im not the only one complaining about scaling or CP being abusive.

a change // modification // a nerfing nuclear bomb or even its removal of the cp and that wretched level scaling that wasnt th3re until orsinium came out could be required in order to balance the game out. we didnt need CP 5 years ago and we did fine

you keep harping on how you want mechanics of scaling in ESO to be like Final Fantasy, please tell me how you don't want this game to play exactly like final fantasy /sarcasm.

5 years ago the game was LITERALLY DYING. One tamriel with the way it opened up the game and made it actualy feel like part of Elder scrolls franchise? SAVED IT.

CP might be getting over the top and I don't think we need 30 extra points added every 3 months, HOWEVER. what you are asking for is something very different. you think we should be downscaled. you think losing hard earned and hard leveled abilities just becasue you are doing what used to be "lower level" dungeon is a good idea.

no. just... no.

idk

I am trying to figure out what OP is trying to say other than just to complain about ESO.

I have played FF14 and it is a game designed from the ground up with a child in mind. Granted, years ago FF was a great game but they failed to keep up with modernizing the combat system in their game.

But we all enjoy different things and so we have games with different ways to go about it.

BTW, I found FF training quests useless. The healing one so basic, and pretty pointless, I could not figure out who would actually benefit from it. But I guess it is things like that OP likes and that is fine.

Again, we all like different things and so we have different games catering to those various interests. I am glad that ESO seemed to have not copied anything from FF14 as ESO is a few steps ahead of the curve in both story telling and combat systems.

IwakuraLain42

Scaling down like it's done in FF14 will simply not work because both games are designed completely different. If you have a fixed amount of classes with set skill sets that unlock at fixed points in your char progression and a limited amount of gear sets that are only stat sticks then of course it's possible to arrange your encounters in a way that down-leveling works (FF14). If you have a variable build system with a huge amount of variability (skill lines, gear, mundus stones, CP, traits, etc) then this is simply not possible. The One Tamriel scaling isn't perfect but it's the best that is possible.

Where I agree with you is the story telling and the tutorials. If you start new (with Summerset) then the story is really a disjointed mess. You are effectively thrown into the tail end of a story line that started a few expansions ago. I know that this has been done due to business reasons but it makes for a horrible story experience.

And the tutorials in ESO (if you want to call them that) are really lacking, they really don't explain much (even the ramped up one in Morrowind isn't that great). You might call the approach in FF14 "child-like" but the game (esp in the beginning) has been designed for newcomers in a classic MMORPG and the tutorials are meant for them. ESO on the other hand does a really good job in hiding important information from new players.

pieratsos

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

and where did you see me say WORD FOR WORD that i want eso to become FF14? eso has copyed every bits of every mmos available to and layered skyrim content on top. and honestly, im not the only one complaining about scaling or CP being abusive.

a change // modification // a nerfing nuclear bomb or even its removal of the cp and that wretched level scaling that wasnt th3re until orsinium came out could be required in order to balance the game out. we didnt need CP 5 years ago and we did fine

What does CP have to do with scaling? Complaining about CP is one thing and most people would agree with you. However this is irrelevant with scaling.

Scaling works like that for a reason. If you do not understand why you could ask for explanation instead of just bashing it and saying that it should downscale because downscaling works in a different game without even thinking if it could actually work in this game.

BoneShatterer

Linaleah wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

you keep harping on how you want mechanics of scaling in ESO to be like Final Fantasy, please tell me how you don't want this game to play exactly like final fantasy /sarcasm.

5 years ago the game was LITERALLY DYING. One tamriel with the way it opened up the game and made it actualy feel like part of Elder scrolls franchise? SAVED IT.

CP might be getting over the top and I don't think we need 30 extra points added every 3 months, HOWEVER. what you are asking for is something very different. you think we should be downscaled. you think losing hard earned and hard leveled abilities just becasue you are doing what used to be "lower level" dungeon is a good idea.

no. just... no.

eso liek FF14 i would be crying because it would make no sense, i'm pointing out level scaling because its totally out of control #TRUEFACT yes downscaled to help other players enjoy the ESO the way it was intended not over scale new players to "help them" in lower level content. i dont see a reason to make a world boss in auridon or even spindelclutch a CP160 or VR16 encouter when the instance was originally intended to be played by low levels or cp110-160 for vet mode. its totally counterproductive for the new players coming to the game as well as sending new comers to the lastest content without any clue or queues as to where to go to start the games in the right path.... yay i just cleared the end content mode now i cna focus on the original story... #SLOwCLAP

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Scaling down like it's done in FF14 will simply not work because both games are designed completely different. If you have a fixed amount of classes with set skill sets that unlock at fixed points in your char progression and a limited amount of gear sets that are only stat sticks then of course it's possible to arrange your encounters in a way that down-leveling works (FF14). If you have a variable build system with a huge amount of variability (skill lines, gear, mundus stones, CP, traits, etc) then this is simply not possible. The One Tamriel scaling isn't perfect but it's the best that is possible.

And the tutorials in ESO (if you want to call them that) are really lacking, they really don't explain much (even the ramped up one in Morrowind isn't that great). You might call the approach in FF14 "child-like" but the game (esp in the beginning) has been designed for newcomers in a classic MMORPG and the tutorials are meant for them. ESO on the other hand does a really good job in hiding important information from new players.

for the scaling on this i would be yes and no skill wise since you can see exactly the lowest level possible, i am working blind here sincei am not taking into skyshardhunters.

1 perk per level would get you around 4 or 5 skills morphed and allow you to do decent dmg in the current tier of the level the instance was based on best example spindelclutch is still challenging at level 14-15 no reasons to complain because youre getting a challenge. and if bethesda//zenimax actually opened a book on how to code they could actually get to a point where they would be able to script something correctly or so i assume one day they will...

im only suggesting. you dont like stab your eyes with your keyboard until you cant see what i write. and be ready. im not the only one whos posting about the CP and level scaling. if you dont like to see what people can think about those 2 things that are ruinging the game, crafting and so on be ready to be blind before the end of the evening

JKorr

BoneShatterer wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

And?

Other players have posted the opposite; they started the game and find they have problems and die a lot. No matter which button they mash. Not everyone will have the same level of experience, or expectation.

I made a couple of new characters recently. Even though I've been playing and have gotten the hang of the game, it is taking more effort than "mashing #1 button" to get things to die. Granted, my new characters don't die often, but then I have maxed crafters for making gear/glyphs/food to help.

If you truly find the game so incredibly easy and boring, perhaps a different game would suit you better? One of the Dark Souls, perhaps?

me thinks i lured a die hard fan

FROM 4 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!
almost LAUNCH TIME!!!! this is some time ago honestly and with your new chars ....you clearly do not know how the game works amirite? obviously after all those years of game time i'm sure none of your chars have access to master crafters and 800 CP to increase their overall prowess in combat.
and im also very sure that you do not have tons of crowns saved up to help your chars amirite?

you should walk a mille in a new players shoes

Actually I haven't made it to cp800 yet. Not to far to go, but not yet. I'm not all that competitive, and some content I don't enjoy, so I don't do. I still haven't cleared all the world bosses on my main, longest in existence made in early access character. Haven't done all the undaunted dungeons yet either.

Not sure if you know that new players have access to master crafters? Cause they do. It can be as easy as asking in zone, or :gasp: finding a guild that has master crafters who craft stuff for guildies. I've been playing since early release. I found a good guild; players helped me with gear, research items for my crafters, just about everything I couldn't do until I could make high level food, glyphs, armor and weapons. I pass it on. I make gear for guildies under cp160 for free; cp160 they need to give me the mats, the crafting is still free. I make level appropriate food, alchemy potions, and glyphs for guildies. Two of my guilds are extremely new player friendly; all the help any new player wants, whether its new gear every 10 levels or extra bodies to clear a boss. Depending on what I want to do when I play in the evening, I'll make gear for random new players, or give high level items they can decon for experience to new players who are making crafters.

As far as the gold goes, no, not really. Since I craft for my guilds, I go hunting motifs. Due to some being restricted to content I don't want to do, I end up buying them. It wasn't until this year I managed to get/keep 100k in the bank. The only way I got it was by selling tempers and mats I've accumulated, and giving up on keeping up with getting all the new motifs. I'm at least three behind at this point. If you've seen some of the prices for the rare motifs, it isn't that much. If you've seen some of the bids players make in guild auctions, it definitely isn't much.

I've been in the new player's shoes. Its why I help when I can to make the game more enjoyable for them, instead of frustrating.

Emmagoldman

Facefister wrote: »

Well, this isn't FF.

Really....no....all this time I thought it was.

Thanks for sharing your experience from another game. It’s almost like concepts and ideas can be learned from other places. Crazy right?

BoneShatterer

JKorr wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

And?

Other players have posted the opposite; they started the game and find they have problems and die a lot. No matter which button they mash. Not everyone will have the same level of experience, or expectation.

I made a couple of new characters recently. Even though I've been playing and have gotten the hang of the game, it is taking more effort than "mashing #1 button" to get things to die. Granted, my new characters don't die often, but then I have maxed crafters for making gear/glyphs/food to help.

If you truly find the game so incredibly easy and boring, perhaps a different game would suit you better? One of the Dark Souls, perhaps?

me thinks i lured a die hard fan

FROM 4 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!
almost LAUNCH TIME!!!! this is some time ago honestly and with your new chars ....you clearly do not know how the game works amirite? obviously after all those years of game time i'm sure none of your chars have access to master crafters and 800 CP to increase their overall prowess in combat.
and im also very sure that you do not have tons of crowns saved up to help your chars amirite?

you should walk a mille in a new players shoes

Actually I haven't made it to cp800 yet. Not to far to go, but not yet. I'm not all that competitive, and some content I don't enjoy, so I don't do. I still haven't cleared all the world bosses on my main, longest in existence made in early access character. Haven't done all the undaunted dungeons yet either.

Not sure if you know that new players have access to master crafters? Cause they do. It can be as easy as asking in zone, or :gasp: finding a guild that has master crafters who craft stuff for guildies. I've been playing since early release. I found a good guild; players helped me with gear, research items for my crafters, just about everything I couldn't do until I could make high level food, glyphs, armor and weapons. I pass it on. I make gear for guildies under cp160 for free; cp160 they need to give me the mats, the crafting is still free. I make level appropriate food, alchemy potions, and glyphs for guildies. Two of my guilds are extremely new player friendly; all the help any new player wants, whether its new gear every 10 levels or extra bodies to clear a boss. Depending on what I want to do when I play in the evening, I'll make gear for random new players, or give high level items they can decon for experience to new players who are making crafters.

As far as the gold goes, no, not really. Since I craft for my guilds, I go hunting motifs. Due to some being restricted to content I don't want to do, I end up buying them. It wasn't until this year I managed to get/keep 100k in the bank. The only way I got it was by selling tempers and mats I've accumulated, and giving up on keeping up with getting all the new motifs. I'm at least three behind at this point. If you've seen some of the prices for the rare motifs, it isn't that much. If you've seen some of the bids players make in guild auctions, it definitely isn't much.

I've been in the new player's shoes. Its why I help when I can to make the game more enjoyable for them, instead of frustrating.

same i do my best to help out.... its sad that that we may have a handful of helping hands in a litterbox the size of a living room. and no its not sarcastic i did recieve my fair share of help but new players , from what i noticed can spend maybe 10 to 30 minutes asking for help in zone chat

Dubhliam

This mentality of asking for even more handholding in an unbelievable easy story content would never be possible 20 years ago.

Sorry, but it takes really little effort to beat every story mode.

It would be an insult to all players that have at least the most basic understanding of the game if they lower the difficulty further.

What I CAN agree with you are the tutorials.
The Help menu in the game is full of very informative tutorials that nobody ever sees because nobody ever thinks about reading a Help menu.
I mean, they got it all figured out, right?

starkerealm

BoneShatterer wrote: »

AT level 7..... there is a 153 level difference...

Closer to a 56 level difference, but even that is misleading, because of how scaling actually works.

I'd be willing to address more errors in your post, but there's really no point. It's blindingly clear you don't understand the game and just want a premade 160 handed to you in endgame gear.

idk

BoneShatterer wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

And?

Other players have posted the opposite; they started the game and find they have problems and die a lot. No matter which button they mash. Not everyone will have the same level of experience, or expectation.

I made a couple of new characters recently. Even though I've been playing and have gotten the hang of the game, it is taking more effort than "mashing #1 button" to get things to die. Granted, my new characters don't die often, but then I have maxed crafters for making gear/glyphs/food to help.

If you truly find the game so incredibly easy and boring, perhaps a different game would suit you better? One of the Dark Souls, perhaps?

me thinks i lured a die hard fan

FROM 4 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!
almost LAUNCH TIME!!!! this is some time ago honestly and with your new chars ....you clearly do not know how the game works amirite? obviously after all those years of game time i'm sure none of your chars have access to master crafters and 800 CP to increase their overall prowess in combat.
and im also very sure that you do not have tons of crowns saved up to help your chars amirite?

you should walk a mille in a new players shoes

Actually I haven't made it to cp800 yet. Not to far to go, but not yet. I'm not all that competitive, and some content I don't enjoy, so I don't do. I still haven't cleared all the world bosses on my main, longest in existence made in early access character. Haven't done all the undaunted dungeons yet either.

Not sure if you know that new players have access to master crafters? Cause they do. It can be as easy as asking in zone, or :gasp: finding a guild that has master crafters who craft stuff for guildies. I've been playing since early release. I found a good guild; players helped me with gear, research items for my crafters, just about everything I couldn't do until I could make high level food, glyphs, armor and weapons. I pass it on. I make gear for guildies under cp160 for free; cp160 they need to give me the mats, the crafting is still free. I make level appropriate food, alchemy potions, and glyphs for guildies. Two of my guilds are extremely new player friendly; all the help any new player wants, whether its new gear every 10 levels or extra bodies to clear a boss. Depending on what I want to do when I play in the evening, I'll make gear for random new players, or give high level items they can decon for experience to new players who are making crafters.

As far as the gold goes, no, not really. Since I craft for my guilds, I go hunting motifs. Due to some being restricted to content I don't want to do, I end up buying them. It wasn't until this year I managed to get/keep 100k in the bank. The only way I got it was by selling tempers and mats I've accumulated, and giving up on keeping up with getting all the new motifs. I'm at least three behind at this point. If you've seen some of the prices for the rare motifs, it isn't that much. If you've seen some of the bids players make in guild auctions, it definitely isn't much.

I've been in the new player's shoes. Its why I help when I can to make the game more enjoyable for them, instead of frustrating.

same i do my best to help out.... its sad that that we may have a handful of helping hands in a litterbox the size of a living room. and no its not sarcastic i did recieve my fair share of help but new players , from what i noticed can spend maybe 10 to 30 minutes asking for help in zone chat

Zone is not a great place to ask for help. To many trolls and some of them ask for help in Zone to troll.

FF is not any better. Probably worse since it seems designed with a child in mind. The "training" was a sad joke.

starkerealm

Juhasow wrote: »

This is not how scaling in ESO works. Low level characters can reach higher stats then maxed out ones because they have much higher scaling which is ment to compensate lower levels of skill lines and lower amount of skill points and frankly does that job well. As lv 1 You have the strongest scaling and it drops down slowly up to lv 50. For example as lv 16 character I was able to have 50k stam 5k wep dmg and 2,6k stam regen on werewolf , without CP , something impossible to reach on max lv character. I was able to solo imperial city bosses which are similar or even stronger then world bosses in less then 2 minutes since lv 10 all without champion points on level 15+ it started to take less then 90 seconds.

You can easily solo snapjaw or spindleclutch as low lv if You know what to do so I would say the issue isnt scaling but overland and normal modes being too easy on its own. Upscaled stats offer much more freedom then downscaled ones.

Follow that up with a very important point: All of that is possible in the hands of an experienced player who understands the game. For a player who's just starting out, the stat collapse as you level will make them feel more powerful as they progress, assuming they're learning to play as they go.

If you grind to cap, you will end up feeling significantly weaker, and will have more difficulty with the game as your stat buff decays faster than your skill with the game. I'm thinking of the Skyreach babies in particular here, but dolmen grinders are in a similar situation.

Ironically, begging for a max level character would significantly worsen the OP's experience, as they'd then cry about how their maxed out, 'leet character was completely impotent in combat.

starkerealm

idk wrote: »

I have played FF14 and it is a game designed from the ground up with a child in mind.

idk wrote: »

BTW, I found FF training quests useless. The healing one so basic, and pretty pointless, I could not figure out who would actually benefit from it. But I guess it is things like that OP likes and that is fine.

I feel like these two statements are related, @idk. :P

Though, seriously, in answer to your (unquoted) question, it's a thread complaining about how level scaling works in ESO, because the OP doesn't understand it.

Iselin

You are never level 1 with 1 skill (you don't even get your first skill until level 2 lol) anywhere but in the tutorial. You will always be level 4 or 5 with 3 or 4 skills outside of that.

Besides, scaling is not as simple as you imagine. There are two separate boosts:

1. the scaling everyone under CP160 gets, and
2. the low level boost to damage done and damage mitigation that is highest at level 1. This buff is reduced by 3% per level until it falls off completely at level 34.

That 2nd one is what lets under-skilled players be able to handle soloing quests, the overland mobs and delves. By the time you're level 34 (long before that if you've gotten the hang of how to play the game) you do have a pretty full kit of morphed abilities missing only some of the tier 5 or other harder to get at skill (Mage's Ultimate, Psijiic skills, etc.)

Additionally if you're running 4-man dungeons there is yet another low level buff to your health pool in there.

The scaling works fine and is well thought out.

With respect to story discontinuity, I do agree that new players would still be best served by starting with the Coldharbour tutorial and the noobie islands following that. This thing of having a new tutorial in order to feature their latest and greatest "chapter" is just a case of the PR/marketing tail wagging the dog. It's nonsense.

starkerealm

pieratsos wrote: »

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

and where did you see me say WORD FOR WORD that i want eso to become FF14? eso has copyed every bits of every mmos available to and layered skyrim content on top. and honestly, im not the only one complaining about scaling or CP being abusive.

a change // modification // a nerfing nuclear bomb or even its removal of the cp and that wretched level scaling that wasnt th3re until orsinium came out could be required in order to balance the game out. we didnt need CP 5 years ago and we did fine

What does CP have to do with scaling? Complaining about CP is one thing and most people would agree with you. However this is irrelevant with scaling.

Scaling works like that for a reason. If you do not understand why you could ask for explanation instead of just bashing it and saying that it should downscale because downscaling works in a different game without even thinking if it could actually work in this game.

Case in point, when the numbers are hidden from you in ESO, it's not clear how scaling actually works. So, the experience of a new player will be that as they level up, they're facing more challenging opponents. Now, if you keep track of the numbers, you'll quickly realize that when you can see the numbers (and know what they mean), the enemies don't move. The game will show you this if you know which settings to poke, but it won't bury you with it up front.

Scaling in ESO means that your level is, basically, never a factor you need to worry about when approaching content. (There are a few specific exceptions, PvP doesn't unlock until level 10, and the group finder has specific level thresholds, if you don't have premade group.) But, there's never any, "oh, but you need to be level 20 to go on this quest.

Atreidus

As far i had readed this CP are fine for vets as bonus. But the scaling at all is like "get 800+cp of go offline" pvp - whise.
Else the pve - scaling is the oposite "faceroll and laughing at cyrodil pve with 30 mobs.
The cp cap at 160 also is not so good since new players are getting 160 in a few weeks while vets are stucked at 160 since months/years?
I still have got an old shield from before this madness. it shows 50 cp for lvl 50 as epic. This as starter stuff and then slower giving more cp at the items.
Also dont upscale or downscale mobs so much and it will bring back the classic "hey i get rewarded for being a loyal player" -feeling.
All this daily rewards for subs may be ok.. but not more.

Also there need to be a droppaple legendary sourche. Or a reward which is legendary for an epic quest. Same cp slow scaling system. So low 50s are getting an chanche for lower ones to without becoming "the hulk" within weeks.

starkerealm

Iselin wrote: »

This thing of having a new tutorial in order to feature their latest and greatest "chapter" is just a case of the PR/marketing tail wagging the dog. It's nonsense.

No, it's more practical than that.

The new tutorials have two functions. First, they have been progressively more streamlined. Summerset will get a new player up and going in under 10 minutes. In contrast, the original Cold Harbour tutorial was a long slog. I never asked, but I suspect there was user attrition in the Wailing Prison, with players who never saw freedom at all.

The other thing, which is significant in contrast to other MMOs, shows a new player that the new content they just purchased isn't locked off at endgame. If you buy a Summerset box, you get Summerset, you're released on to the island after rolling up a new character. Nearly every MMO I've played attaches new content (primarily) to endgame, and asks you to play through everything else first. ESO takes steps to make sure new players never buy content they can't play. (The only exception being the DLC dungeon packs, and even that wasn't originally the case.)

Iselin

starkerealm wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

This thing of having a new tutorial in order to feature their latest and greatest "chapter" is just a case of the PR/marketing tail wagging the dog. It's nonsense.

No, it's more practical than that.

The new tutorials have two functions. First, they have been progressively more streamlined. Summerset will get a new player up and going in under 10 minutes. In contrast, the original Cold Harbour tutorial was a long slog. I never asked, but I suspect there was user attrition in the Wailing Prison, with players who never saw freedom at all.

The other thing, which is significant in contrast to other MMOs, shows a new player that the new content they just purchased isn't locked off at endgame. If you buy a Summerset box, you get Summerset, you're released on to the island after rolling up a new character. Nearly every MMO I've played attaches new content (primarily) to endgame, and asks you to play through everything else first. ESO takes steps to make sure new players never buy content they can't play. (The only exception being the DLC dungeon packs, and even that wasn't originally the case.)

Many of those pluses you list could be easily accomplished with an intro cinematic for the new area. And the Coldharbour tutorial is also very quick but you do have the option to stay in there longer to grind mobs and containers for loot. The Vvanderfell tutorial is actually longer.

They also miss important concepts such as sky shards and those new areas that the game dumps you into don't even have Mundus stones like the first "real" zones if you're following the original progression do.

You may find the new tutorials cool after you've done the other one 20 times but for a new player they are seriously lacking and dump you into areas that are not the best place for a brand new player to start not to mention the "story so far" is totally out of whack.

Not reserving new content for end-game players only like WOW and most others do is indeed a good thing. But if a new player jumps into that right away like the new tutorials encourage you to do, they'll be missing a whole lot of flavor.

Of course if you don't care about story then no biggie. But I have to wonder why anyone would play ESO and not care about the story when that is its best feature.

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I have played FF14 and it is a game designed from the ground up with a child in mind.

BTW, I found FF training quests useless. The healing one so basic, and pretty pointless, I could not figure out who would actually benefit from it. But I guess it is things like that OP likes and that is fine.

I feel like these two statements are related, @idk. :P

Though, seriously, in answer to your (unquoted) question, it's a thread complaining about how level scaling works in ESO, because the OP doesn't understand it.[/quote]

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I have played FF14 and it is a game designed from the ground up with a child in mind.

BTW, I found FF training quests useless. The healing one so basic, and pretty pointless, I could not figure out who would actually benefit from it. But I guess it is things like that OP likes and that is fine.

I feel like these two statements are related, @idk. :P

Though, seriously, in answer to your (unquoted) question, it's a thread complaining about how level scaling works in ESO, because the OP doesn't understand it.[/quote]

What I quoted was about asking a question in Zone for 30 minutes and not getting a reply.

But even at that, FF scaling is odd compared to any MMORPG I have seen. When leveling up NPC levels are all over the place.

Personally, I think OP is just complaining for the heck of it. tbf, if FF is your cup of tea, great, go play it. Glad it is there for you. <- is just a message for OP.

starkerealm

idk wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I have played FF14 and it is a game designed from the ground up with a child in mind.

idk wrote: »

BTW, I found FF training quests useless. The healing one so basic, and pretty pointless, I could not figure out who would actually benefit from it. But I guess it is things like that OP likes and that is fine.

I feel like these two statements are related, @idk. :P

Though, seriously, in answer to your (unquoted) question, it's a thread complaining about how level scaling works in ESO, because the OP doesn't understand it.

What I quoted was about asking a question in Zone for 30 minutes and not getting a reply.

But even at that, FF scaling is odd compared to any MMORPG I have seen. When leveling up NPC levels are all over the place.

Personally, I think OP is just complaining for the heck of it. tbf, if FF is your cup of tea, great, go play it. Glad it is there for you. <- is just a message for OP.

Technically, you used the, "with a child in mind," line twice. So, it was also in the post about training quests.

EDIT: Original post quoted in an unedited form here for convienence:

idk wrote: »

I am trying to figure out what OP is trying to say other than just to complain about ESO.

I have played FF14 and it is a game designed from the ground up with a child in mind. Granted, years ago FF was a great game but they failed to keep up with modernizing the combat system in their game.

But we all enjoy different things and so we have games with different ways to go about it.

BTW, I found FF training quests useless. The healing one so basic, and pretty pointless, I could not figure out who would actually benefit from it. But I guess it is things like that OP likes and that is fine.

Again, we all like different things and so we have different games catering to those various interests. I am glad that ESO seemed to have not copied anything from FF14 as ESO is a few steps ahead of the curve in both story telling and combat systems.

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I have played FF14 and it is a game designed from the ground up with a child in mind.

idk wrote: »

BTW, I found FF training quests useless. The healing one so basic, and pretty pointless, I could not figure out who would actually benefit from it. But I guess it is things like that OP likes and that is fine.

I feel like these two statements are related, @idk. :P

Though, seriously, in answer to your (unquoted) question, it's a thread complaining about how level scaling works in ESO, because the OP doesn't understand it.

What I quoted was about asking a question in Zone for 30 minutes and not getting a reply.

But even at that, FF scaling is odd compared to any MMORPG I have seen. When leveling up NPC levels are all over the place.

Personally, I think OP is just complaining for the heck of it. tbf, if FF is your cup of tea, great, go play it. Glad it is there for you. <- is just a message for OP.

Technically, you used the, "with a child in mind," line twice. So, it was also in the post about training quests.

ahh

Jeremy

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

I think I was bored of it after an hour. I only played the crap as long as I did because of friends.

I'll never understand what people see in that game.

Linaleah

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

I think I was bored of it after an hour. I only played the crap as long as I did because of friends.

I'll never understand what people see in that game.

personal preferences and all that. personaly I'm not a fan of jrpg's in general, they just... don't do it for me. but I know plenty of people who feel this exact same way about western rpg's. so I won't begrudge anyone liking what they do, just.. don't try to turn every other game into that thing. we have a variety of games and game mechanics out here for a reason.

Jeremy

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly OP? you want this game to be final fantasy. but for a lot of us, if we wanted to play final fantasy we WOULD HAVE PLAYED FINAL FANTASY. I actualy have it, there was a point where it ws on special via humble bundle, so I figured, why the heck not. I got bored after less then 2 hours. its NOT the game for everyone and what you are describing about downscaling is just... AWFUL. I mean i guess there are people who like it, but I'm guessing those people are playing final fantasy.

just.. ESO doesn't need to be final fantasy, especially when it comes to skill progression and level scaling. please for the love of god

and btw, this is NOT me claiming that ESO is perfect. far from it. this is me claiming that final fantasy mechanics have NO place in this game IMO.

I think I was bored of it after an hour. I only played the crap as long as I did because of friends.

I'll never understand what people see in that game.

personal preferences and all that. personaly I'm not a fan of jrpg's in general, they just... don't do it for me. but I know plenty of people who feel this exact same way about western rpg's. so I won't begrudge anyone liking what they do, just.. don't try to turn every other game into that thing. we have a variety of games and game mechanics out here for a reason.

I loved Final Fantasy 11 (still do in fact) and have been playing that game for well over a decade.

So I don't think it has anything to do with the fact it's a jprg.

The problem for me was how shallow the combat was. Even WoW makes the combat on Final Fantasy 14 look sad by comparison.

As to the OP - Final Fantasy 14's zones are basically useless once you out-level them. So I'll take ESO's scaling any day of the week and twice on Sunday. One Tamriel was probably the single best improvement ESO ever had. Before that - I couldn't even finish my quests before out-leveling everything in the zone. Enemies wouldn't even drop loot.

Things are still too easy. Don't get me wrong. But at least now monsters can actually hurt you and drop loot, so it doesn't feel like such a complete and boring waste of my time like it used to.

JumpmanLane

BoneShatterer wrote: »

hey all, returning player in here, no thanks to bethesdas email system failing on me.....

i will get hate from die hard fans but who cares

i switched games a little during the past years, i mostly played eso until orsinium and FF14....

i love what ESO has become, i never get tired of the action, and also FF14, cant hatesometing that had us hooked for 30 years, but i came to notice that what lacks in eso is found in ff14 and what lacks in FF14 is found in ESO..sweet irony

i noticecd that ESO upscaled their chars to cp160 with the skills and dps capacity of a character with the skills of their levels lets say 6 for the example....
while FF14 downscales their higher levels, only in instances and worldbosses...

lets say i make a char, level 1... i have the dps output of a CP160 but only have 1 skill that does virtually nothing so im ending up with a very restricted amount of damage output on everything in the game random trash monsters, camps, grind spots and instances that are supposed to be level 9 but are now CP160, worldbosses that are in a level 1 zone but are now CP160

if i want to try snapjaw or spindelclutch , AD worldboss used to be level 8 encouter from memory but is now CP160 AT level 7..... there is a 153 level difference and i will be teamed up with people being decked out with CP160 legendary gears and cp700+ wich means i have no rush of instances challenge or difficulty because its too easy. My last group, 11-30-2018, cleared spindelclutch 2 normal in less than 10 minutes because we had someone doing a quest

IF

i go in FF14 and do the same the concept is spinned backwards. the higher levels are downscaled for worldbosses and instance ONLY. the rest of the map is untouched meaning that if you are CP160 in a level 8 zone YOU REMAIN 160 UNTIL you get to a worldboss or instance: gears are reduced stats to match the instances highest possible level for example a level 9 instance with a level range of level 7 to 12.. will have his gear stats, skills reduced to level 12, to match the level range of the instance or world boss to offer low level chars or new players a chance to get a rush from the dungeon or worldboss..

also tutorial wise.... thats my point of view and may offend some easyly offended people... but TUTORIAL COMPLETLY SUCKS NOW!!!!

at the start , when i came to play eso 4 years ago, i had to escape coldharbor to start my journey into beating the crap out of molag bal and his employees but now... with the new trend of making us start in the end content... I , has a returning player and also new players that i have met are completly at loss because there is too much stuff going on and we are left clueless surrounded with bots spamming press g c q l k or what ever letter in chat to get a bot invite to a worldboss..... then once we are done with the current end content story mode we are invited to start the tutorial of the oginial plot story coldharbor> main scenario >guilds> civil war> and so on until the end content wich is already cleared.. took me 10 days IRL to beat that freakking jabba the hut parody in the story line of summerset because the stats that we have are not on par with the content.

cant bethesda //zenimax, inc rage train from people, actually manage to give us ONE tutorial instead of 1 for each dlc that we own?

my suggestion for bethesda // zenimax in the event that they wont try to fix this scaling issue would be to make all created characters cp160 with matching gears skill and CP upon creation.

i will not reply or answer to people raging or attempts to troll.

Grind up to max cp and forget about it lol...or you could always just play FF14 lol