Sharee wrote: »

How about 3 stamina nightblades with DW/double enchants+bleed procs? They would melt you just as fast as the WW's, probably faster since they can even use their class kit, and would have way better survivability with shade and cloak.

Sharee wrote: »

Case in point:

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Self-Healing:
In order to get any decent self heal from Hircine´s Bounty you´ve to fulfil two things:
1. A high health pool = As soon as you dip below 30k HP, the self heal starts becoming mediocre. On average I´ll heal around 6-7k without any kind of healing debuffs applied to me while in battlegrounds. When it crits I´ll heal for around 10k assuming I´m once again not affected by defiles. However, the heal uses spell-critical to determine how often it crits, and therefore you´ll rarely see it crit.

2. The "right morph" = If you want to have a good heal you are almost forced to pick Hircine´s Fortitude. You´ll get a much stronger heal, but you´ll trade that for major brutality. Sure you can use potions to compensate, but there´re much better potions to use in PvP rather than brutality potions.

It seems like a majority of the WW I see are well below 30k HP, and their self healing is still quite huge. I've yet to see any other class, besides maybe a Magicka Templar spamming Breath of Life, self heal as well as a Werewolf. And just how many abilities are there that'll insta-heal for 6-7k non-crit in Battlegrounds?

Qbiken wrote: »

A werewolf building for a good sustained and good heal will definitely lose out on damage. Werewolf has a "natural" offensive approach in their skilline to begin with, but it´s usually not enough to kill anyone who knows what they´re doing.

The offensive skill line was pretty irrelevant to the group I was referring to (and most other WW that I've run into recently, as well). I encountered them in multiple different matches, and never once got hit with a Roar. It was nothing but Claws of Anguish and light attacks, mixed with some fears here and there. My death recaps vs them were, on more than one occasion, made up 100% of Damage Health procs, and I saw at least one person say the same in party chat.

Qbiken wrote: »

As Sharee said, you can´t have it all on a werewolf. You can always aim for a balance between offense, defence and sustain, but in the end of the day you'll not be able to achieve godlike stats on all those things. There´s one way it´s almost possible, but that option is not viable in battlegrounds.

With Torug's Pact and enchant damage on bleeds, you absolutely can have it all. Most WW that I see are melting people (even without 2 other WW light attacking the same target), while being one of the toughest targets for groups of randoms to kill.

I see both you and Sharee are agreeing that Torug's Pact is a problem, which is why I mentioned that it may not be necessary to actually nerf the WW offensive skills themselves. But 3 WW light attacking with super frequent Oblivion enchants was beyond ridiculous, especially since that damage was going right through shields ('course, the light attacks and free bleeds were taking shields down instantly anyway).

If the WW that were sustaining massive heal spam had poor damage, it wouldn't be an issue. If they were able to get good damage by building differently and actually making use of offensive abilities, while having reduced self healing capability, that'd also be fine. But as it stands right now, virtually all of the WW I'm seeing are eschewing Roar all together in favor wrecking people with light attacks, defile, and bleed/enchant procs, along with giant self healing that's very sustainable.