Why are Fallout players so much more vocal and effective than ESO players?
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Stratloc✭✭✭✭arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »ESO players are vocal in voting with their dollars. If they are vocal in this sub, the thread gets locked.
This forum is littered with complaint threads...0 -
arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »ESO players are vocal in voting with their dollars. If they are vocal in this sub, the thread gets locked.
This forum is littered with complaint threads...
There are four locked threads on the first two pages of the forum. Obviously, locked threads fall off fairly quickly. In other words, there are a lot of locked threads.0 -
BossXV✭✭✭✭This is just unfair, that Fallout players can wreak havoc while ESO players look like happy Nancies.
Uhm, when did you start playing ESO or come to the ESO forums? We are nothing happy Nancies and complain, a lot. If we didn't complain, how come we have One Tamriel? If we didn't complain how come we don't have to pay a monthly fee? If we don't complain how come we are getting monthly rewards?
If we didn't complain, how come we have controller support on PC? It's actually quite amazing what Zenimax Online Studios have given us. Lot of it wouldn't have been if the higher ups didn't tell the to do give us that stuff. The way I see it, what they can't fix, or the higher ups will not let them fix because it's not "cost effective", they do other stuff. We wouldn't have loot bags in ESO+ if we didn't complain. We wouldn't be getting more crowns per month if we didn't complain. We wouldn't be getting exclusives for ESO+ if we didn't complain.
So while nobody is asking for this stuff, why is Zenimax doing it? To deflect and not talk about what is the real problem. So we are either happy with what Zenimax did, or complain about what they just did and not complain about the problems we complained about before.
If we didn't complain we wouldn't be getting free pixels.
*edit*
Yeah if we never complained we would have never got Orsinium.
(Slow applause) I asked for 2 hand weapons to be 2 traits! I use to rant in forms yearly, THEY ANSWERED MY PRAYERS2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Treads are locked because they get off topic or personal against players, not because they claim the devs are more incompetent than the worst pug group you can imagine.arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »ESO players are vocal in voting with their dollars. If they are vocal in this sub, the thread gets locked.
This forum is littered with complaint threads...
There are four locked threads on the first two pages of the forum. Obviously, locked threads fall off fairly quickly. In other words, there are a lot of locked threads.
My description is wiping repeatably on first trash in wayrest 1.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »Because it's a new game that Bethesda needs to save right now.
Pretty much. ZOS can handle ignoring or moving slowly on complaints about ESO because they are in the profit-making phase.
Fallout 76 just came out. If the game flops with no improvements slated, that's money down the drain. If they promise lots of fixes, maybe people will stick around long enough for the game to do okay.
Its the squeaky wheels get the grease, but the wheel on the brand new car gets the mechanic's immediate attention.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »ESO players are vocal in voting with their dollars. If they are vocal in this sub, the thread gets locked.
This forum is littered with complaint threads...
There are four locked threads on the first two pages of the forum. Obviously, locked threads fall off fairly quickly. In other words, there are a lot of locked threads.
If you look back over several pages you'll find that there are very few actually, and those were generally locked because they broke forum rules. The only reason constructive complaints get locked is because of the need to concentrate such complaints in a single thread rather than having everyone think that their's merits a separate thread resulting in everything else getting moved off the front page unnecessarily.3 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »ESO players are vocal in voting with their dollars. If they are vocal in this sub, the thread gets locked.
This forum is littered with complaint threads...
There are four locked threads on the first two pages of the forum. Obviously, locked threads fall off fairly quickly.
One of which is yours, and the other three have nothing to do with the actual game.In other words, there are a lot of locked threads.
I have 30 threads per page on my browser. I just went back through seven pages. Out of 210 threads, 7 were locked. That's not remotely "a lot of locked threads."1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why can MY company (I am CEO of) customers demand that MY company products are good but I cannot demand ZOS products fullfill basic technical quality?
Because manufacturing physical products has its own type of quality control, insurance, and warranty through several levels of distribution (factory, freight, warehouse, retail, customer). In many instances, customer service never makes it back to the manufacturer.
Services don't work the same way. Online services are not staffed to troubleshoot the unique problems of every individual, and because there are malicious people out there, ZOS has to sacrifice some quality for security.
Also, your company probably doesn't use a clickwrap to limit your liabilities. If you want room to rant, don't agree to a clickwrap.
We develop software. Mostly backends and micro-services. Just to point out how much people keep assuming about me in this thread.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Stratloc✭✭✭✭arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »ESO players are vocal in voting with their dollars. If they are vocal in this sub, the thread gets locked.
This forum is littered with complaint threads...
There are four locked threads on the first two pages of the forum. Obviously, locked threads fall off fairly quickly. In other words, there are a lot of locked threads.
Other people above already addressed this so I won't. My point still stands.Edited by Stratloc on November 24, 2018 10:35PM0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Caligamy_ESO wrote: »Its a new game, so the playerbase still has hope
Critics score does matter, IGN gave 5/10. Its a complete mess and not worth money.
Also currently on sale for ps4.Edited by Lord_Eomer on November 24, 2018 10:40PM1 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We develop software. Mostly backends and micro-services. Just to point out how much people keep assuming about me in this thread.
There would be fewer assumptions if you'd just post a copy of your company's licensing terms as relevant personal testimony.
But as I'm already working off the assumption that anyone on the Internet will say whatever they want, I'm just using the best comparative examples I can think of regardless of the exact situational reality.signing off0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When i saw that Fallout 76 teaser and all those sheep cheering i thought to myself, are they serious... That game will be a total garbage fire..
Turns out i was right..
Just look at ESO then add that to Fallout.. uhh its not rocket science.0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We develop software. Mostly backends and micro-services. Just to point out how much people keep assuming about me in this thread.
There would be fewer assumptions if you'd just post a copy of your company's licensing terms as relevant personal testimony.
But as I'm already working off the assumption that anyone on the Internet will say whatever they want, I'm just using the best comparative examples I can think of regardless of the exact situational reality.
Sure, do you also want my DNA while we are at it? I don't think it's even under the forum rules to post stuff that could be seen as advertisment. But if you really insist, feel free to PM for a REST API development request quote or a server maintenance plan and I'll tell you how much we charge for that
Edited by Vahrokh on November 25, 2018 8:43AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The reason why we keep quiet is because complaint posts get removed / moderated. Trying to start a riot will get you banned. And most importantly... 4 years down the line we still facepalm on every major update. ESO community pretty much gave up and just try their best to have fun with what they have.PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade2 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Compared to F76 ESO is a masterpiece...
In fact I will even dare to say that even ESO (that is an mmorpg) can give better single player experience than F76... weird huh ?Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on November 25, 2018 9:57AM0 -
ozm8ey✭✭✭The problem is fallout 76 core game design is bad, and its not something that can just be fixed. Whereas eso could so that's why eso is doing so well now. Btw the graphics look nothing alike fallout 76. eso might not have the best graphics but it still has a nice look. btw I haven't actually played fallout 76 its just what I have seen so far.3
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Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The problem is fallout 76 core game design is bad, and its not something that can just be fixed. Whereas eso could so that's why eso is doing so well now. Btw the graphics look nothing alike fallout 76. eso might not have the best graphics but it still has a nice look. btw I haven't actually played fallout 76 its just what I have seen so far.
I haven't played it yet either. Was planning to wait for a sale, which would have the added benefit of giving them time to iron out some of the more serious kinks before I get into it. But based on everything I've seen so far, I'm not so sure I'd be willing to spend $20 on it. Let alone the current asking price.
That's not to say it's necessarily bad. It could be an alright generic survival and exploration game with some extra work and a healthy round of bug squashing. The problem is I'm not really seeing "Fallout" in Fallout 76. I mean, the aesthetics are there. There's nukes and protectrons and power armor and such. But the soul is missing. It's not Fallout, it's a spin-off to make some micro payment cash."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
Att1Tude✭✭✭I cant even imagine how many million players this game would have if this game was honestly bugless and balanced better. Two things(the most important ones as how you see what every single thread of this forum contains in title is either bug or balance post) you had to focus, and it seems you did same mistake again with FO76. ZOS could make a [Snip] of money out from FO76 but nah, keep it old school. Plain stupid if you ask from me.
[Edit to remove profanity]Edited by [Deleted User] on November 25, 2018 8:47PMPC-EU
How-Much-Is-The-Fish Stamsorc
A Friend Of Nature Magwarden1 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭People, both players and the developers, are conditioned to the mediocrity of ESO, we just tolerate it for the also-ran MMO that it is. Until TES6 it's the only way to get a fix, so yeah, it's a bit of a lame game but ZOS have shown they simply don't care, so why should we? Also, ESO is a very casual friendly game and, outside of these forums, I doubt many players are clued up enough to even realise how good a game ESO could be in the right hands, so they just tolerate this half-assed job.
FO76 was a new thing and there was an opportunity to do the job well. Generally when dealing with a valuable IP like FO, one expects the dev to handle it with care and when they do not, people are rightly outraged. Then those more vocal people move on and you're just left with a largely tame and casual community such as ESO mainly now has, and those people don't know any better so put up and shut up.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I cant even imagine how many million players this game would have if this game was honestly bugless and balanced better. Two things(the most important ones as how you see what every single thread of this forum contains in title is either bug or balance post) you had to focus, and it seems you did same mistake again with FO76. ZOS could make a [Snip] of money out from FO76 but nah, keep it old school. Plain stupid if you ask from me.
ZOS has done a business balance assessment that weighs the cost of fixes with acquisition of profit. It is obvious that they have put some constraints on support, bug fixes, and performance as part of that. This is going to chase some customers away, and I am sure it has.
It is natural in business to deliberately exclude part of the potential customer base that is interpreted as being too expensive to attract and maintain. What does it cost to woo a certain customer? Is that going to return in profit what was spent to attract them? Meanwhile, there are other customers that are cheaper to maintain, and those they want to retain.
This is why they trickle out bug fixes, and why I think they are done with performance. Maybe a few tweaks to performance that are low hanging fruit left to be picked, but by and large, done with it. They are not in the business to make the perfect game. They are here to make money selling a game that is just good enough to do that reasonably well. I think they have achieved that. If it will cost more than they will recover in revenue to solve some problem and retain a segment of players, why do it? The lost revenue from these players leaving is probably less than they would lose trying to retain them, with no guarantee that they would even stick around.
They might surprise me, and have other plans, but this game is nearing 5 years old. If they were going to make a move, they would have done it already. Instead, they slowly stopped talking about it.Edited by [Deleted User] on November 25, 2018 8:47PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I mean their 2 completely separate problems.
eso has problems, lag, performance, balance. That continue to get worse with every patch. But at least we have a "working" game with stuff to do.
fallout 76 is a fundamentally broken at its concept mess with absolutely nothing to do in it that was sold for 60$
like as much as I hate saying anything positive about zos these days at least we have something that feels like a fully developed game with at least thought that went into its concept. were just pissed cuz zos is making it worse every patch. fallout 76 feels like a prototype concept that they slapped together to see if it worked as a type of gameplay then slapped it out the door in like pre alpha without making sure any of the *** they had worked like even at a base system lvl2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »I cant even imagine how many million players this game would have if this game was honestly bugless and balanced better. Two things(the most important ones as how you see what every single thread of this forum contains in title is either bug or balance post) you had to focus, and it seems you did same mistake again with FO76. ZOS could make a [snip] of money out from FO76 but nah, keep it old school. Plain stupid if you ask from me.
ZOS has done a business balance assessment that weighs the cost of fixes with acquisition of profit. It is obvious that they have put some constraints on support, bug fixes, and performance as part of that. This is going to chase some customers away, and I am sure it has.
It is natural in business to deliberately exclude part of the potential customer base that is interpreted as being too expensive to attract and maintain. What does it cost to woo a certain customer? Is that going to return in profit what was spent to attract them? Meanwhile, there are other customers that are cheaper to maintain, and those they want to retain.
This is why they trickle out bug fixes, and why I think they are done with performance. Maybe a few tweaks to performance that are low hanging fruit left to be picked, but by and large, done with it. They are not in the business to make the perfect game. They are here to make money selling a game that is just good enough to do that reasonably well. I think they have achieved that. If it will cost more than they will recover in revenue to solve some problem and retain a segment of players, why do it? The lost revenue from these players leaving is probably less than they would lose trying to retain them, with no guarantee that they would even stick around.
They might surprise me, and have other plans, but this game is nearing 5 years old. If they were going to make a move, they would have done it already. Instead, they slowly stopped talking about it.
I think that's more or less right.
Bearing in mind, of course, that it's only a comparatively small subset of players who have the sort of performance and balancing issues that clog up the forums anyway, such that it's by no means certain that all the performance issues are at ZOS's end anyway. Most of the players are quietly going about their gaming without constant disconnects, long loading screens, lag and all the other stuff some report - and they're doing it with the character builds that some consider "literally unplayable".Edited by [Deleted User] on November 25, 2018 8:47PM0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »I cant even imagine how many million players this game would have if this game was honestly bugless and balanced better. Two things(the most important ones as how you see what every single thread of this forum contains in title is either bug or balance post) you had to focus, and it seems you did same mistake again with FO76. ZOS could make a [snip] of money out from FO76 but nah, keep it old school. Plain stupid if you ask from me.
ZOS has done a business balance assessment that weighs the cost of fixes with acquisition of profit. It is obvious that they have put some constraints on support, bug fixes, and performance as part of that. This is going to chase some customers away, and I am sure it has.
It is natural in business to deliberately exclude part of the potential customer base that is interpreted as being too expensive to attract and maintain. What does it cost to woo a certain customer? Is that going to return in profit what was spent to attract them? Meanwhile, there are other customers that are cheaper to maintain, and those they want to retain.
This is why they trickle out bug fixes, and why I think they are done with performance. Maybe a few tweaks to performance that are low hanging fruit left to be picked, but by and large, done with it. They are not in the business to make the perfect game. They are here to make money selling a game that is just good enough to do that reasonably well. I think they have achieved that. If it will cost more than they will recover in revenue to solve some problem and retain a segment of players, why do it? The lost revenue from these players leaving is probably less than they would lose trying to retain them, with no guarantee that they would even stick around.
They might surprise me, and have other plans, but this game is nearing 5 years old. If they were going to make a move, they would have done it already. Instead, they slowly stopped talking about it.
I think that's more or less right.
Bearing in mind, of course, that it's only a comparatively small subset of players who have the sort of performance and balancing issues that clog up the forums anyway, such that it's by no means certain that all the performance issues are at ZOS's end anyway. Most of the players are quietly going about their gaming without constant disconnects, long loading screens, lag and all the other stuff some report - and they're doing it with the character builds that some consider "literally unplayable".
That is part of the whole equation, true.
I get disconnections. I get "cannot connect to server". I get the occasional FPS drops, latency spikes, sync issues, sudden loading screens, and unresponsiveness. These things should not really happen to people frequently, and yet they do. I don't get them enough to be of great concern to me, and that is where the equation lies. If people like me are willing to tolerate it, then does it really need to be fixed?
Personally, I am of two minds on this. Yes, needs to be fixed, if for no other reason than it makes the game, and the studio, look bad to have people complaining for years about things that are confirmed to be a problem. On the other hand, I know that there are things people want that are more important to them than the fix.
It is because of the first reason that ESO is likely last game from ZOS that I will purchase. They have a reputation for running an expensive game with an indifference to quality. I do not see the studio going up hill from that because it is making them money. Tolerating it in ESO is one thing, but voluntarily doing it again with another game, quite another. We'll see,Edited by [Deleted User] on November 25, 2018 8:48PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Vrienda✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can’t really compare ESO to the dumpster fire that Fallout 76 is.
ESO actually has NPC’s and a story, unlike Fallout 76 which is all lore via notes and holotapes. Not to mention that there’s a lot more to do in ESO besides running around collecting useless trash and killing Ghouls.
ESO is a good game with a few bugs, balancing issues and server problems (Though I’ve not experienced the latter).
Fallout 76 is a bad game with tons of bugs and server problems with nothing really requiring much balance since there’s no competitive content.Edited by Vrienda on November 25, 2018 7:08PMDesperate for Roleplaying servers to bring open world non-organised RP to Elder Scrolls Online. Please ZOS.1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cause we have less issues then them. ( Immoratal players, xp expoults, item exploits... yeah I will stay here.)
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cause we have less issues then them. ( Immoratal players, xp expoults, item exploits... yeah I will stay here.)
wait until The Cheat Program That Shall Not Be Named becomes part of the normal daily play experience with Fallout 76. I wonder if BGS will do anything about it, or ignore the problem?XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
TheRealSniker✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because everybody who had a voice and a community quit the game and moved on
Look at syphers channel for example, he tried voicing his opinion on PvP for the longest time, problem is that Zenimax never answers and leaves us with even more 9minute content and new crown crates that nobody asked for
This game is in a state where the only people who are left playing it, are also the ones who dont care anymore1
