FPS Problem

yacoob · November 2018

rluke wrote: »

1080Ti, eh? 8)
I'm unsure how representative those results are, given it's a Hackintosh.

Wodinn · November 2018

JJBoomer wrote: »

tbh i still believe this is all a precursor to them dropping mac support. If they really are putting a lot of resources towards fixing this, but can't, then I have no doubt they'll come back with an announcement about dropping mac support due to resource drain. That's what happened with STO. They were putting resources towards trying to fix and maintain their mac client until they decided it wasn't worth the resources they thought they were wasting.

This has all the same marking of that. like i said before, I won't be surprised if at some point soon, they announce dropping mac support because they "don't have the resources"

If they do that. I will demand a *** refund because that's the biggest load of cowshit ever.

Wodinn · November 2018

moonio wrote: »

zarnon_akoni wrote: »

Hell, I'd even consider getting a new Mac if I was confident you were committed for the long term.

You would be better off getting a gaming PC..

*** pc.

Wodinn · November 2018

chipotle42 wrote: »

I have given up now. Game unplayable and not enjoying the experience anymore. Have cancelled my subscription deleted my characters and the game.

wtf, all you have to do is cancel your + sub.

Wodinn · November 2018

rluke wrote: »

deleted and completely re-downloaded the game. Also documents folder.
Reinstalled all addons as well.
Open world 100 fps (v-sync on, 100 Hz Monitor) and light drops in cities.

In full screen mode I also have graphics errors and when I close the game a crash, but otherwise it goes very well.
Better than before murkmire.

I just did this and my screen is blinking black, and the game auto quits itself again. So now I have to do the Usersettings.txt work around again... yay

Wodinn · November 2018

smacx250 wrote: »

Wodinn wrote: »

I'm not sure what has happened. I just re-downloaded the game to try and get my Usersettings.txt file back. It is still not there and the game is back to immediately quitting itself. What do I need to do to get that file back?

@Wodinn - Had you previously used a workaround for multi-core to prevent the crash? If so, you can try this:

1. Open "Terminal.app"
2. Copy/paste this to the command line and hit return:
echo 'SET MaxCoresToUse.4 "4" ' > ~/Documents/"Elder Scrolls Online"/live/UserSettings.txt
3. Run the game

umm, if I have 8 cores what should I set this too?

Ostacia · November 2018

I'm in a ticket. Today it was recommended that I reset my PRAM. Never done that before. Cool. Not getting the graphics issues anymore, except when attempting Fullscreen. I cannot finish the Murkmire quest in the Dream Cave. Each time I try, I have to start all the way at the beginning "Enter the Dream Nest." I think that's the last one in the main quest line there, so that is annoying. Will keep updated if anything is found that works. Good luck to us all...

kenjitamura · November 2018

moonio wrote: »

zarnon_akoni wrote: »

Hell, I'd even consider getting a new Mac if I was confident you were committed for the long term.

You would be better off getting a gaming PC..

If they were willing to go the route of playing on Windows the least costly solution would just be to wipe their drive and install Windows on their existing Mac hardware. That this thread is still receiving replies means they must have their reasons for not doing so.

Wodinn · November 2018

Wodinn wrote: »

rluke wrote: »

deleted and completely re-downloaded the game. Also documents folder.
Reinstalled all addons as well.
Open world 100 fps (v-sync on, 100 Hz Monitor) and light drops in cities.

In full screen mode I also have graphics errors and when I close the game a crash, but otherwise it goes very well.
Better than before murkmire.

I just did this and my screen is blinking black, and the game auto quits itself again. So now I have to do the Usersettings.txt work around again... yay

nvm, I don't think I did it correctly.

agegarton · November 2018

As per @Wintergreen 's comment above, some basic Mac maintenance is probably a good idea at this stage. I used to run an Apple support forum, so I feel (almost!) qualified to provide a few tips:-

Resetting PRAM or NVRAM (depending on the age of your machine) is a good bet in helping to resolve a number of graphical issues (and numerous other problems). In very basic terms this resets some parameter memory forcing your Mac to load parameters from scratch when you restart as part of the reset process. You won't do any harm to Mac by doing this. Here's a link that gives easy to follow instructions. https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-reset-mac-pram-or-nvram-2260839

Resetting the SMC (System management controller) is also worth a try and it can't hurt. From reading the issues people are having, it's less likely to improve performance with the ESO client, however if you have something else going on with your machine you might cure a cause/effect issue. Hit the link for an easy guide: https://www.lifewire.com/reset-smc-system-management-controller-on-mac-2260840

If you are experiencing graphical stutters or unusual screen flashes on an external monitor, it's also a good idea to check your cables. Sounds stupid I know, but graphical stuttering issues are more often caused by bad cables or connections than anything else.

Finally, if you want to be sure your Mac is running well, you can run the Apple diagnostic tool. It's really only worth running this is you think you might have a hardware issue but, as with the steps above, you won't break anything by giving it a go! Link to Apple's support site with easy steps: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731

At the very least, if you do the above you'll know that wha's left is pretty much a software issue related to the ESO Mac client that only Zenimax can fix.

Hope this helps some of you out!

Age. xx

PS - I am not affiliated with Apple or the lifewire site that I linked to - these just seemed like the best laid out steps for people who might not have tried these things before.

nathan_bri · November 2018

At this point, ZeniMax should issue a warning to any potential Mac users that the strobing of polygons rapidly appearing and disappearing could be a trigger to those with epilepsy. Enduring one Clockwork daily this morning was almost enough to GIVE me epilepsy as my screen fluttered repeatedly while moving across the terrain.

ZOS_AlexTardif · November 2018

Hello everyone, we have some updates on the Mac client issues:

The flickering bug has been fixed internally and is currently in testing. It's mostly a timing issue on our side with the new API, which is why changing your video settings can impact whether or not you experience it.

We have some crash fixes as well, including the crash you can encounter when exiting the game.

We also have additional performance improvements in testing, which should help those of you running at higher graphics settings.

All of the above will be pushed in a future incremental after they've been vetted.

We would also like to clear up some of the concerns in your comments here about future Mac support for ESO. We intend to continue supporting ESO on the Mac, and this is why we made the switch to Metal via MoltenVK. This way we could ensure that, whenever the time comes that OpenGL is phased out on the Mac completely, we're ahead of it and you can continue to play the game. We recognize the missteps in this initial implementation, but we're committed to working on improving the Mac experience until the issues are resolved. To that end, we're also in discussions with support from Apple on how we can better leverage their API to improve the game. In the meantime, thank you everyone for your patience while we've been working through these new issues.

elgirth · November 2018

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hello everyone, we have some updates on the Mac client issues:

The flickering bug has been fixed internally and is currently in testing. It's mostly a timing issue on our side with the new API, which is why changing your video settings can impact whether or not you experience it.

We have some crash fixes as well, including the crash you can encounter when exiting the game.

We also have additional performance improvements in testing, which should help those of you running at higher graphics settings.

All of the above will be pushed in a future incremental after they've been vetted.

We would also like to clear up some of the concerns in your comments here about future Mac support for ESO. We intend to continue supporting ESO on the Mac, and this is why we made the switch to Metal via MoltenVK. This way we could ensure that, whenever the time comes that OpenGL is phased out on the Mac completely, we're ahead of it and you can continue to play the game. We recognize the missteps in this initial implementation, but we're committed to working on improving the Mac experience until the issues are resolved. To that end, we're also in discussions with support from Apple on how we can better leverage their API to improve the game. In the meantime, thank you everyone for your patience while we've been working through these new issues.

Thank you for the update @ZOS_AlexTardif and thank you guys for continuing to work hard to resolve these issues.

yacoob · November 2018

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

We would also like to clear up some of the concerns in your comments here about future Mac support for ESO. We intend to continue supporting ESO on the Mac, and this is why we made the switch to Metal via MoltenVK. This way we could ensure that, whenever the time comes that OpenGL is phased out on the Mac completely, we're ahead of it and you can continue to play the game. We recognize the missteps in this initial implementation, but we're committed to working on improving the Mac experience until the issues are resolved. To that end, we're also in discussions with support from Apple on how we can better leverage their API to improve the game. In the meantime, thank you everyone for your patience while we've been working through these new issues.

This is reassuring to hear. Thanks a lot! Got burned badly with Elite:Dangerous, which was so fun to play, except it stopped abruptly at the point where the company gave up on OSX development.

On the tactical front: What are the chances that we're going to see all of those three fixes out on 26th of Nov? 3rd of Dec? 10th of Dec?

Wodinn · November 2018

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hello everyone, we have some updates on the Mac client issues:

The flickering bug has been fixed internally and is currently in testing. It's mostly a timing issue on our side with the new API, which is why changing your video settings can impact whether or not you experience it.

We have some crash fixes as well, including the crash you can encounter when exiting the game.

We also have additional performance improvements in testing, which should help those of you running at higher graphics settings.

All of the above will be pushed in a future incremental after they've been vetted.

We would also like to clear up some of the concerns in your comments here about future Mac support for ESO. We intend to continue supporting ESO on the Mac, and this is why we made the switch to Metal via MoltenVK. This way we could ensure that, whenever the time comes that OpenGL is phased out on the Mac completely, we're ahead of it and you can continue to play the game. We recognize the missteps in this initial implementation, but we're committed to working on improving the Mac experience until the issues are resolved. To that end, we're also in discussions with support from Apple on how we can better leverage their API to improve the game. In the meantime, thank you everyone for your patience while we've been working through these new issues.

Speaking for myself, before reading any other users comments. I would like to say thank you. This is all I needed to hear. The communication itself is incredibly reassuring. ALL of the points made in the comment are encouraging in themselves. Thank you so much for taking the time to let us know what's going on, and what you plan on trying to improve in the near future.

I am incredibly incourage to know that you are committed to keeping the Mac client going. Switching to MoltenVK wouldn't make sense otherwise. I can now say that. When I can afford it, I do plan on getting a full 6 months + membership. As long as everything you mentioned, does get done asap.

Wodinn · November 2018

yacoob wrote: »

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

We would also like to clear up some of the concerns in your comments here about future Mac support for ESO. We intend to continue supporting ESO on the Mac, and this is why we made the switch to Metal via MoltenVK. This way we could ensure that, whenever the time comes that OpenGL is phased out on the Mac completely, we're ahead of it and you can continue to play the game. We recognize the missteps in this initial implementation, but we're committed to working on improving the Mac experience until the issues are resolved. To that end, we're also in discussions with support from Apple on how we can better leverage their API to improve the game. In the meantime, thank you everyone for your patience while we've been working through these new issues.

On the tactical front: What are the chances that we're going to see all of those three fixes out on 26th of Nov? 3rd of Dec? 10th of Dec?

Seconded, this would also be very reassuring.

krismissee82 · November 2018

Thank you for the update, @ZOS_AlexTardif

Montie · November 2018

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hello everyone, we have some updates on the Mac client issues:

The flickering bug has been fixed internally and is currently in testing. It's mostly a timing issue on our side with the new API, which is why changing your video settings can impact whether or not you experience it.

We have some crash fixes as well, including the crash you can encounter when exiting the game.

We also have additional performance improvements in testing, which should help those of you running at higher graphics settings.

All of the above will be pushed in a future incremental after they've been vetted.

We would also like to clear up some of the concerns in your comments here about future Mac support for ESO. We intend to continue supporting ESO on the Mac, and this is why we made the switch to Metal via MoltenVK. This way we could ensure that, whenever the time comes that OpenGL is phased out on the Mac completely, we're ahead of it and you can continue to play the game. We recognize the missteps in this initial implementation, but we're committed to working on improving the Mac experience until the issues are resolved. To that end, we're also in discussions with support from Apple on how we can better leverage their API to improve the game. In the meantime, thank you everyone for your patience while we've been working through these new issues.

Thank you for the response. While it will be a long time before I trust you with more than a month sub at a time, I do appreciate the response.

Please, work on your communication with the community though. It goes a long ways to making us not jump to conclusions and shows that you actually care about your product. Quite frankly the lack of communication paints a picture of a company that does not care about their products or their customers.

Last night, Apple's systems went down, within seconds they were communicating with their customers. While I don't expect anything like that from you, Apple is a much bigger company, I do expect more than silence for weeks.

agegarton · November 2018

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hello everyone, we have some updates on the Mac client issues:

The flickering bug has been fixed internally and is currently in testing. It's mostly a timing issue on our side with the new API, which is why changing your video settings can impact whether or not you experience it.

We have some crash fixes as well, including the crash you can encounter when exiting the game.

We also have additional performance improvements in testing, which should help those of you running at higher graphics settings.

All of the above will be pushed in a future incremental after they've been vetted.

We would also like to clear up some of the concerns in your comments here about future Mac support for ESO. We intend to continue supporting ESO on the Mac, and this is why we made the switch to Metal via MoltenVK. This way we could ensure that, whenever the time comes that OpenGL is phased out on the Mac completely, we're ahead of it and you can continue to play the game. We recognize the missteps in this initial implementation, but we're committed to working on improving the Mac experience until the issues are resolved. To that end, we're also in discussions with support from Apple on how we can better leverage their API to improve the game. In the meantime, thank you everyone for your patience while we've been working through these new issues.

Thank you - all good to hear.

More of this please - communication is so important when there are issues like those we have been experiencing, especially when you're working on the problems!

Ostacia · November 2018

Thank you @ZOS_AlexTardif !

Thrawn75 · November 2018

Oh man, FPS have improved a bit but it's still unplayable - it's simply no fun anymore. I'm really not sure what's going on - perhaps it's a combination of random stutter/unreliable FPS with some subtle change in visuals due to the new API, but the game is absolutely different (worse).

For example, in some areas, game runs more or less at 30-40 fps which is well, ok, (before it was +60 fps), but as soon as there're some characters in the screen or a combat, then randomness occur, FPS fluctuates, some enemies suddenly die, game loses continuity .. it's simply no fun anymore.

Currently ESO looks and feels like back in alpha stage, not even beta.

Wodinn · November 2018

I was able to do a full re download of the game. It was able to run without any Usersettings.txt edit of any sort. So THAT is a big deal to me. And I have noticed a slight increase in fps. But it's no where NEAR steady, it's choppy at best. All of the previous issues still stay also. And still unable to use v-sync

Wodinn · November 2018

Thrawn75 wrote: »

Oh man, FPS have improved a bit but it's still unplayable - it's simply no fun anymore. I'm really not sure what's going on - perhaps it's a combination of random stutter/unreliable FPS with some subtle change in visuals due to the new API, but the game is absolutely different (worse).

For example, in some areas, game runs more or less at 30-40 fps which is well, ok, (before it was +60 fps), but as soon as there're some characters in the screen or a combat, then randomness occur, FPS fluctuates, some enemies suddenly die, game loses continuity .. it's simply no fun anymore.

Currently ESO looks and feels like back in alpha stage, not even beta.

exactly, it seemed whenever there was so much as one other player on my screen, if I even look in the direction of where players gather and I'm near there. I'll get choppy fps, and increased graphical glitching.

Finthimel · November 2018

Wodinn wrote: »

chipotle42 wrote: »

I have given up now. Game unplayable and not enjoying the experience anymore. Have cancelled my subscription deleted my characters and the game.

wtf, all you have to do is cancel your + sub.

I know, but I got so angry and frustrated with the whole situation that I no longer want anything to do with it. I am glad it may be slowly getting sorted but for me it’s finished.

ethernut60 · November 2018

yacoob wrote: »

rluke wrote: »

1080Ti, eh? 8)
I'm unsure how representative those results are, given it's a Hackintosh.

Read it again.... it's a Mac Pro, not a Hackintosh. Mac Pro's have replaceable video cards.

yacoob · November 2018

ethernut60 wrote: »

Read it again.... it's a Mac Pro, not a Hackintosh. Mac Pro's have replaceable video cards.

Oh, right. Thought it's still limited by the availability of drivers. Interesting.

moonio · November 2018

Why wasn't the switch to Molten made via the PTS rather than live?

smacx250 · November 2018

moonio wrote: »

Why wasn't the switch to Molten made via the PTS rather than live?

It was introduced on the PTS. For example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435980/pts-apple-mac-bugs

moonio · November 2018

And it still went live..

vgabor · November 2018

Just a sidenote to the FPS issues for MAC based on my experiences and what I read here.

I'm using a 13'' MacBookPro, touchbar version. It does not have dedicated graphic card just the inboard intel chip. My fps with the old opengl version of ESO was at 18-23 fps, with the new molten version stayed at 18-23 fps, so for my 13'' macbookpro nothing has changed in terms of fps, neither better or worse, it's pretty much the same as before.

Reading here that macs with graphics cards lost fps and now around the fps I'm experiencing without the graphics card suggests that the problem lays somewhere at the utilisation of the graphics card in the new molten code, and you're basically back to the base level quality you would've get without one.

Edit: note I'm talking purely of fps here, as of bugs stutters glitches, I'm too getting plenty of those with the new molten version which wasn't there in the old.