Sometimes, people want a challenge just to see if they can do it and when they can do it. Even though yes, this is an MMO (as some argue), having a challenge that tests one's abilities solo is very satisfying. I remember when i was able to first solo a dolmen, the first time i solo'd a dungeon. I hear it from friends and other players who are still leveling their characters.

MMO is massively multiplayer. It does not mean that every challenging thing to do must be done with a group. Only that you CAN group with others to complete difficult content or for companionship? (for lack of a better word).

Why not have more than one event like maelstrom arena for when people want to test themselves. why not have an arena or dungeon with varying levels of difficulties just to see if "i can solo" this or not? normal solo, advanced solo and God mode for those who can pull that massive dps who can normally nuke through other game content.

I think it's a great idea if it can be done. If not, then more solo arenas would be beneficial for those who can't always be on for raids due to time constraints etc.

This is an MMORPG. Can we please start acting like it? Should trials also be re-worked to be 4-man content? No, no they shouldn't. There are plenty of quests, delves, etc. that can appeal to solo-play, and I wouldn't be against the introduction of solo-dungeons in the FUTURE. But we should not take existing group content and revise it for solo play. I just don't like that idea, it urks me. There are already plenty of things that you can do on your own.

The content needs to be seperated. All this sounds like it would do, is further kill the group finder. Why would DD's ever wait in a queue when they can just jump in solo?

Abigail wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

This is an MMORPG. Can we please start acting like it? Should trials also be re-worked to be 4-man content? No, no they shouldn't. There are plenty of quests, delves, etc. that can appeal to solo-play, and I wouldn't be against the introduction of solo-dungeons in the FUTURE. But we should not take existing group content and revise it for solo play. I just don't like that idea, it urks me. There are already plenty of things that you can do on your own.

The content needs to be seperated. All this sounds like it would do, is further kill the group finder. Why would DD's ever wait in a queue when they can just jump in solo?

Please show me someplace, anyplace, that defines MMORPG as forced group play. And please don't resort to saying that's how they've always been done.

As to your second argument: why should DDs have to wait in a queue when they can solo a dungeon -- because waiting in queues is fun, like getting stuck with a bunch of obnoxious elitists in some random is fun.

My question to you, CyberSkooma, is what frightens you so much? What is it about people wanting to do their own that has you so bothered?

Multiplayer is in the title of the genre. Obviously, this game DOESN'T force group play. There is absolutely nothing requiring you, to go and play group dungeons, if you don't want to. There is plenty in this game to do all by yourself, in fact probably more than 95% of MMO's ever put on the market. I am absolutely not against solo content. What I am against, is revising existing group content for solo play. If you want something from a dungeon, you should have to get it just like everybody else has had to. Major changes to existing content is almost always a bad idea. Not to mention I don't want all of their dev time going back on old dungeons. Give us new content, don't revise the old. There are people out there that want to run trials, but complain that you need 12 people to do it. Yes. You do. That's the entire point. If you want to run them, please go find a group or join a guild, that's how it works.

Like I said before, there is already tons to do in this game as a solo player. If you want to do vet dungeons, group up. It's not that bad, I promise. If you have an issue with queuing with other randoms and having bad experiences, please join and/or form a guild that suits your needs. There is something out there for everybody, and people willing to help with whatever you need. Changing existing content with major revisions like this is not the way to go. You should be asking for NEW solo content, not adapting the old stuff.

Abigail wrote: »

@CyberSkooma

You may want to revise your second sentence as I'm sure it's an unintended error.

Correct lol

CyberSkooma wrote: »

Like I said before, there is already tons to do in this game as a solo player.

But that is exactly the point. As far as high end solo content is concerned, there hasn't been any since Maelstrom. Difficult solo content is the least offered type of gameplay in ESO, with the result that high end solo players often do four-player content solo just to have a challenge.

Also, the amount of content in the game which can be soloed is irrelevant. The fact that the overland zones are 'solo' doesn't matter to the argument here. Because that content is ridiculously easy, and the point was that there is so little difficult content for solo play.

At the point at which players are soloing content which was designed for groups because there is nothing else which is a challenge, you have a simple supply / demand problem. There is a demand for high end solo content, but you're not supplying it. And the fact that you do supply a huge amount of solo content that is really easy doesn't matter, because that is not what is in demand in this case.

Also, I want to point out, as many have done, that it's utterly irrelevant that ESO is an MMO. I don't play it because it's an MMO. I play it because I enjoy it. And my suggestion was not to take away group content, or make it easier, or design the whole game around the needs of the few (even though, arguably, ever more difficult dungeons DLC does exactly that). My suggestion was to leave group content unchanged, but offer a way for solo players to play that content (as they already do) without running into unnecessary roadblocks caused by arbitrary group mechanics.

And they are arbitrary. Take the harvester boss in Vaults of Madness, and the one in Wayrest II. The first has a stun that can be endured, the second has a stun that can't. VoM can be soloed, WII can't (AFAIK). Now, I'm not asking for the WII harvester stun lock to be removed for group play. I'm asking for a solo instance which removes it. That one tweak could open up that whole dungeon to a whole group of people. And, if you really want, having added a specific solo instance, you could also make the VoM harvester have an unbreakable stun as well. Whatever.

The fact that dungeons were ostensibly designed for group play also doesn't matter, partly because of those arbitrarily applied mechanics, and because people do solo them anyway because there's a demand for such content which is not being met by supply. And we might just as well prevent grouping in the overland, or prevent players with more than 160 CP from doing overland content, because that content wasn't designed for groups or high-end players. But that would be absurd.

To repeat (at the end of a too-long reply fuelled by too little coffee ), my suggestion was not to change group content at all, but to offer an alternative instance for solo play. That's all. There may be arguments against this (such as the impact on group finder, or bias against tanks and healers). But in principle, it's about player choice, and supply vs demand.

mjharper wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mjharper wrote: »

The last time there was any new content for high end solo play was Orsinium, with the Maelstrom Arena. In fact, that’s the ONLY content for high end solo play in the entirety of ESO. Everything else is (intentionally) easy overland content, PVP, or (increasingly) difficult group content.

For a challenge, solo players can attempt to do 4-player dungeons solo. But there’s several problems with this.

• Firstly, many of those dungeons have mechanics which require more than one player, either to click switches, or to free a trapped player who cannot free themselves.
• Secondly, the DLC dungeons have been pitched at increasing levels of difficulty, rendering them largely inaccessible even for players who are able to solo base-game dungeons on veteran difficulty

.
My suggested solution to this dearth of content for high end solo play is to add a ‘Solo mode’ to all dungeons.

Note: I am not recommending adjusting the difficulty of dungeons to suit solo players. Four-player dungeons could and should remain designed for 4 players. It is not my intention here to question the wisdom of setting DLC dungeons at ever-increasing levels of difficulty, excluding the majority of the player base.

Such a ‘Solo mode’ should be an alternate instance which can only be accessed by a single player. All mechanics which require multiple players should be revised, so that only one lever need be pulled, or permanent stuns receive limited durations or can be broken free from, and so on.

For difficulty, ‘Solo mode’ DLC dungeons could be pitched at about the same level as 4-player base-game dungeons. Base-game dungeons could remain at the same difficulty level, although with any group mechanics removed. There should, as a consequence, also be ‘Normal’ and ‘Veteran’ difficulties for ‘Solo mode’.

Alternatively, ‘Solo mode’ for base-game dungeons could also be set to a ‘bridging’ difficulty, perhaps with ‘Normal’ difficulty being at the level of public dungeons, but again, with only one player able to access them. ‘Veteran Solo mode’ for base-game dungeons could then be set to the level of Normal 4-player mode. This would preserve difficulty difference between base-game and DLC dungeons, while making the process of soloing more accessible for mid-tier players.

Obviously, dungeons which are completed on ‘Veteran Solo mode’ should also offer monster helms. And ‘Solo mode’ should also be an option for completing Undaunted pledges.

The aim here is to offer more content for solo players, while leaving the group content intact. It would also have the benefit of effectively adding value to the ESO+ subscription.

Thoughts?

It's tempting to support your idea. Especially seeing how brain dead easy the landscape on this game has become. So soloing dungeons is one of the few places you can actually get a decent challenge. But ultimately I'm going to have to decline.

I believe dungeons should remain a group activity, especially as it relates to doing the undaunted pledges etc. So I would actually go in the opposite direction, and would support adding more "group mechanics" and increasing the difficulty of dungeons so as to make them less friendly to soloers.

Um, you agree that there isn't enough hard content for solo play, and your solution is to remove the only content that there is? Okay...

What could happen is that 'Solo mode' is added for explicit solo play, and then all dungeons have extra mechanics added to make the 4-player mode require 4 players. That could work I suppose.

But my original point was not to interfere with current dungeons at all, while offering a way to make them all soloable for those who want that. Increase player choice, rather than limiting it even further.

Yes, I agree landscape content and questing/exploration generally has become too easy, especially for higher level players.

But I don't think making dungeons more solo-friendly is a solution to that. Most of them are too easy already, and I believe players should have to group up to do dungeons and complete pledges. This is an MMO after all.

So I would prefer pledges and dungeons stay as group content and the difficulty of the landscape content increased to where it provides a more interesting solo experience. I believe that's the ideal solution here.

But I said your idea was tempting, so I wasn't trying to crap on it. I just think ultimately it would be bad for the game.

CyberSkooma wrote: »

mjharper wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

Like I said before, there is already tons to do in this game as a solo player.

my suggestion was not to change group content at all, but to offer an alternative instance for solo play. That's all. There may be arguments against this (such as the impact on group finder, or bias against tanks and healers). But in principle, it's about player choice, and supply vs demand.

Making a solo instance IS a revision to existing group content. Because it means you don't need to group to do it..

Look, like I said, I am absolutely not against ZOS coming out with more high-end solo content. I just don't think it should be done the way that is being suggested.

I support the idea for one reason:

Ydrisselle wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

I have a question for you solo dungeon suporters:
If ZON decided to implement solo version of existing dungeons, why would you play them, what would your motivation be?
a. to get the drops (monster sets etc.)?
b. to get the achievement (soloed 20 dungeons)?
c. to experience a new challenge?

d. To finish the quests there. It's way more easier than pray for a group which is not impatient if I want to hear what the NPCs say and watch what they do.

I'm not a fast quester. I want to hear the lines of the NPCs and think about my answers. I know that most of the players saw these dungeons for umptillion times; however I avoided them all... and one of the main reasons was the quests.

Agree - solo versions of dungeons at vMA level difficulty would be great. Hopefully, it can happen.

Jeremy wrote: »

mjharper wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mjharper wrote: »

The last time there was any new content for high end solo play was Orsinium, with the Maelstrom Arena. In fact, that’s the ONLY content for high end solo play in the entirety of ESO. Everything else is (intentionally) easy overland content, PVP, or (increasingly) difficult group content.

For a challenge, solo players can attempt to do 4-player dungeons solo. But there’s several problems with this.

• Firstly, many of those dungeons have mechanics which require more than one player, either to click switches, or to free a trapped player who cannot free themselves.
• Secondly, the DLC dungeons have been pitched at increasing levels of difficulty, rendering them largely inaccessible even for players who are able to solo base-game dungeons on veteran difficulty

.
My suggested solution to this dearth of content for high end solo play is to add a ‘Solo mode’ to all dungeons.

Note: I am not recommending adjusting the difficulty of dungeons to suit solo players. Four-player dungeons could and should remain designed for 4 players. It is not my intention here to question the wisdom of setting DLC dungeons at ever-increasing levels of difficulty, excluding the majority of the player base.

Such a ‘Solo mode’ should be an alternate instance which can only be accessed by a single player. All mechanics which require multiple players should be revised, so that only one lever need be pulled, or permanent stuns receive limited durations or can be broken free from, and so on.

For difficulty, ‘Solo mode’ DLC dungeons could be pitched at about the same level as 4-player base-game dungeons. Base-game dungeons could remain at the same difficulty level, although with any group mechanics removed. There should, as a consequence, also be ‘Normal’ and ‘Veteran’ difficulties for ‘Solo mode’.

Alternatively, ‘Solo mode’ for base-game dungeons could also be set to a ‘bridging’ difficulty, perhaps with ‘Normal’ difficulty being at the level of public dungeons, but again, with only one player able to access them. ‘Veteran Solo mode’ for base-game dungeons could then be set to the level of Normal 4-player mode. This would preserve difficulty difference between base-game and DLC dungeons, while making the process of soloing more accessible for mid-tier players.

Obviously, dungeons which are completed on ‘Veteran Solo mode’ should also offer monster helms. And ‘Solo mode’ should also be an option for completing Undaunted pledges.

The aim here is to offer more content for solo players, while leaving the group content intact. It would also have the benefit of effectively adding value to the ESO+ subscription.

Thoughts?

It's tempting to support your idea. Especially seeing how brain dead easy the landscape on this game has become. So soloing dungeons is one of the few places you can actually get a decent challenge. But ultimately I'm going to have to decline.

I believe dungeons should remain a group activity, especially as it relates to doing the undaunted pledges etc. So I would actually go in the opposite direction, and would support adding more "group mechanics" and increasing the difficulty of dungeons so as to make them less friendly to soloers.

Um, you agree that there isn't enough hard content for solo play, and your solution is to remove the only content that there is? Okay...

What could happen is that 'Solo mode' is added for explicit solo play, and then all dungeons have extra mechanics added to make the 4-player mode require 4 players. That could work I suppose.

But my original point was not to interfere with current dungeons at all, while offering a way to make them all soloable for those who want that. Increase player choice, rather than limiting it even further.

Yes, I agree landscape content and questing/exploration generally has become too easy, especially for higher level players.

But I don't think making dungeons more solo-friendly is a solution to that. Most of them are too easy already, and I believe players should have to group up to do dungeons and complete pledges. This is an MMO after all.

So I would prefer pledges and dungeons stay as group content and the difficulty of the landscape content increased to where it provides a more interesting solo experience. I believe that's the ideal solution here.

But I said your idea was tempting, so I wasn't trying to crap on it. I just think ultimately it would be bad for the game.

No, it's not. There is zero reason to mess with the overworld, it is there for casuals and since they make up the majority it should remain the same. This is an MMO. So? I want to be around other players, doesn't mean I want to play with them. This is NOT a traditional MMO, stated clearly by the devs themselves long ago. Many are not here because it's an MMO.

This is really quite simple, if the majority of players would use this option, well obviously it's a desired feature that is missing. I don't see why I should be held back waiting on someone else to complete a dungeon I can solo, if not needing two players to stand on a switch?

That was my issue when I was farming Direfrost. No one wanted to run it. Especially when there is an event going on. Doesn't matter if you're in a guild or two, most players already have a list of things to do themselves. In the end if not for youtube I'd still be waiting on folks to run a dungeon that I can and have soloed many many times.

No one is asking for an easy mode, just lose the dumb mechanics in dungeons that requires two players. They have already done it with craglorn. Again, no need to mess with the overworld, while easy for us I still see tons of players struggling with the lowbie enemies.

Your idea might seem "nice" at first hand, but I cannot help but feel that you are missing the big picture.

You think it's hard to find a group NOW?
Imagine how hard it would be to find a group if you enable everyone to solo it.

And this is for content that was specifically designed to be played in a group.

Honestly, I don't see how making less people play in groups will fix the "PUG grouping problem".