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Snipe
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Hochstapler✭✭✭Snipe spamming zergling defected. Learn to play something other than an ez no skill playstyle where you just sit 40 meters away spamming snipe.
Slot radiant or play a class with reflect (StamDK is super fun), or stay hidden yourself and hunt those tiny elves that seems to hide behind every bush in Cyrodill.
There are many solutions for your gaming "problems"
You opted for moaning and berating players on forum.
I care about your gaming "problems" and teenage anxieties, just not today.6 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hochstapler wrote: »Snipe spamming zergling defected. Learn to play something other than an ez no skill playstyle where you just sit 40 meters away spamming snipe.
Slot radiant or play a class with reflect (StamDK is super fun), or stay hidden yourself and hunt those tiny elves that seems to hide behind every bush in Cyrodill.
There are many solutions for your gaming "problems"
You opted for moaning and berating players on forum.
Yes because everyone plays a wing slamming DK, and everyone just hides around looking for snipe spammers.
Everyone has enough space to slot radiant magelight on their bars.
You give atrocious solutions for an actual issue.
You opted to look like a snipe spamming zergling for defending such a garbage playstyle.3 -
Hochstapler✭✭✭I'm not defending anything.
If you don't have room for Magelight on your bar you are doing it wrong.
As everyone that read this thread knew all along, it's a clear L2P issue, in your case.
Don't be the laughing stock of your own thread dude. lolI care about your gaming "problems" and teenage anxieties, just not today.5 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭same thing here as all the other skills.
you simply dont like bow so you target every detail about it and spam threads about that ONE thing untill its nerfed to death and no longer used.
made out of revenge because you die to it, is no need to fix anything about it.
it's not broken.
you dont like nightblades, and stealth and bow.
we get it.
i hope the devs and the rest of the community start to see the patterns here with these type threads.
Edited by Gilvoth on November 22, 2018 3:43AM5 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »If I’m not mistaken. Zos has made it crystal clear they no longer want hard hitting abilities stunning. So how come stealth/snipe stuns? And it’s never been addressed.
How come this one ability that’s 40+ meters has the same damage output as dizzy swing and also has major defile or minor fracture. Let’s not forget how people can literally just sit in the back of groups and spam away at one button.
Now before some triggered garbage snipe spamming zerglings try to counter argue. Allow me to shut your arguments down before hand.
“It’s easily able to be heard and it has a cast time, and it’s easy to dodge l2p”
Yes it does. Maybe if I’m alone riding alone and I hear the snipes and it’s a 1v1 situation. If I don’t get health desync which rarely happens. But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots. So no the “it’s easy to hear” excuses doesn’t work. Unless of course it’s just a 1v1 and please. Tell me how many times you get into a 1v1 with a sniper because the second you see said sniper he’s just going to perma cloak away and pooof gone. So no. It’s not as simple as “jUsT d0DgE iT”
Don’t even get me started on health desync. I love when I’m riding alone in cyro or fighting people when my health just suddenly drops from 100% to 0% health as 5 snipes all register at once.
A few times I get lucky and only 2-3 register but I get perma stunned from them since of course stealth snipe stuns and God knows who zos hasn’t fixed that since they once again clearly stated they don’t want hard hittin abilities to stun.
Not to mention this particular bug has never been fixed.
Zos has never even touched snipe each patch unlike literally every other skill they nerf without any hesistation. I’m beginnign to think these incompetent developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spamming trash.
It’s absolutely stupid how a hard hitting ability can just be spammed from 40+ meters away, adds and the guy spamming them can just cloak away and hide only to spam away again. Literally takes no skill. If they removed this trash PvP would be a lot better. Along with the bugs that come with this stupid skill. If there’s anything I missed? Please do tell.
Slot purge dude.
That's standard forum blade advice for standard forum blade skills
On the side note snipe does nowhere near the damage as dizzy swing. Snipe usually crits and offers no counterplay.
Unreal. Just shut this thread down if we’re going to get this garbage. Block and dodge aren’t real answers to snipe?
X% crit means you have the same exact change to crit on anything.. snipe doesn’t have some *** magical crit increase on it
Literally everything you’ve said is coming out your ass
Blocking is not a counter to snipe because 1. the major defile goes through block
2. The cost of blocking it over time will be more expensive than the cost of casting snipe (unless in a 0 lag environment that doesn’t exist).
3. Snipe can be cast at a range that does not allow counterplay blockcasting from the target other than an expensive defensive skill such as wings.
4. Blocking slows the target down significantly, making it harder to get to LOS, and blocking the snipe does not grant stun immunity.
Roll dodge is a viable counter but only if the dodger is close to LOS. Roll dodge’s increasing cost means it is only a short term counter.
Hence why I’d like increasing cost on snipes. This would eliminate the “spam” and reward the targets who counter snipe effectively. Players like you who don’t spam it (you’re more of a shoot twice and kite kind of guy) wouldn’t be significantly affected.
Another option would be to increase the cost based on the distance to target. Sniping at 10m or less costs the same, but a 20m snipe costs 2x as much, a 40m snipe costs 4x as much stam, etc.
This would hinder the snipe spammers ability to escape / break free after spamming from a long distance. It adds an element of risk to their range that is currently lacking.
Again, you would not be affected by this since AFAIK you’re doing the asylum bow thing.
No the counter to snipe is you don't let the sniper stay at 40m with clear los. This is a l2play 101 issue in EVERY. SINGLE. competitive multiplayer game there is. This is the equivalent of charging a sniper across an open field in an fps with only a shotgun.
The bow skill line exists for a reason. It exists just fine in many other games. Could use some adjustments for sure. But first fix the net code so dysnc doesn't happen as often and create pvp modes that actually offer a clear picture of balance. Cyro definitely isn't that and the 3 teams in BGs muddies the waters bad too.
Last if snipe gets the streak treatment then all spammables should then too. But definitely not really. Snipe is the bow line spamable. What is a bow user supposed to do then for 3-4 sec? Some may say magnum could be but it's not quite either. The bow line is a mess. A clearly defined spammable on par with other lines needs to happen. I personally hate that snipe is that now as it isn't a fun skill but until then bow has maybe crushing weapon as an alternative which isn't fun either.
You aren’t thinking this through.
You don’t know that the snipe is coming until after it’s already in the air.
If you LOS while it’s travelling, the snipe will still hit you.
Furthermore we’re discussinf fights with multiple opponents and a melee aspect to it. Often times you will be engaged with one player and then the sniper starts shooting.
FPS analogies are really not relevant. LOs is great until that LoS is blocked by the other enemy players or a third team in BGs
One snipe shouldn't be killing you. Second multiple opponents should have an advantage. Multiple dawn breakers will kill you too.
And you missed my point yet again, cyro and BGs will never be balanced cause they are trash modes to balance around. No other game balances around them. It would be like wow making all their balance changes based on AV instead of Arenas.
Second, quit letting ZoS off for *** net code and trash pvp content. Quit asking for skills to be nerfed cause the game isn't optimized properly for competitive play. Not everyone wants to play melee spin2win. Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment. Personally it would be better if it flew faster and maybe did a little less damage that way 3 can't be in the air at the same time but you keep asking for nerfs and ZoS will increase flight time and you will have 6 in the air before the first hits cause that's what ZoS thinks balances ranged skills.4 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »If I’m not mistaken. Zos has made it crystal clear they no longer want hard hitting abilities stunning. So how come stealth/snipe stuns? And it’s never been addressed.
How come this one ability that’s 40+ meters has the same damage output as dizzy swing and also has major defile or minor fracture. Let’s not forget how people can literally just sit in the back of groups and spam away at one button.
Now before some triggered garbage snipe spamming zerglings try to counter argue. Allow me to shut your arguments down before hand.
“It’s easily able to be heard and it has a cast time, and it’s easy to dodge l2p”
Yes it does. Maybe if I’m alone riding alone and I hear the snipes and it’s a 1v1 situation. If I don’t get health desync which rarely happens. But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots. So no the “it’s easy to hear” excuses doesn’t work. Unless of course it’s just a 1v1 and please. Tell me how many times you get into a 1v1 with a sniper because the second you see said sniper he’s just going to perma cloak away and pooof gone. So no. It’s not as simple as “jUsT d0DgE iT”
Don’t even get me started on health desync. I love when I’m riding alone in cyro or fighting people when my health just suddenly drops from 100% to 0% health as 5 snipes all register at once.
A few times I get lucky and only 2-3 register but I get perma stunned from them since of course stealth snipe stuns and God knows who zos hasn’t fixed that since they once again clearly stated they don’t want hard hittin abilities to stun.
Not to mention this particular bug has never been fixed.
Zos has never even touched snipe each patch unlike literally every other skill they nerf without any hesistation. I’m beginnign to think these incompetent developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spamming trash.
It’s absolutely stupid how a hard hitting ability can just be spammed from 40+ meters away, adds and the guy spamming them can just cloak away and hide only to spam away again. Literally takes no skill. If they removed this trash PvP would be a lot better. Along with the bugs that come with this stupid skill. If there’s anything I missed? Please do tell.
Slot purge dude.
That's standard forum blade advice for standard forum blade skills
On the side note snipe does nowhere near the damage as dizzy swing. Snipe usually crits and offers no counterplay.
Unreal. Just shut this thread down if we’re going to get this garbage. Block and dodge aren’t real answers to snipe?
X% crit means you have the same exact change to crit on anything.. snipe doesn’t have some *** magical crit increase on it
Literally everything you’ve said is coming out your ass
Blocking is not a counter to snipe because 1. the major defile goes through block
2. The cost of blocking it over time will be more expensive than the cost of casting snipe (unless in a 0 lag environment that doesn’t exist).
3. Snipe can be cast at a range that does not allow counterplay blockcasting from the target other than an expensive defensive skill such as wings.
4. Blocking slows the target down significantly, making it harder to get to LOS, and blocking the snipe does not grant stun immunity.
Roll dodge is a viable counter but only if the dodger is close to LOS. Roll dodge’s increasing cost means it is only a short term counter.
Hence why I’d like increasing cost on snipes. This would eliminate the “spam” and reward the targets who counter snipe effectively. Players like you who don’t spam it (you’re more of a shoot twice and kite kind of guy) wouldn’t be significantly affected.
Another option would be to increase the cost based on the distance to target. Sniping at 10m or less costs the same, but a 20m snipe costs 2x as much, a 40m snipe costs 4x as much stam, etc.
This would hinder the snipe spammers ability to escape / break free after spamming from a long distance. It adds an element of risk to their range that is currently lacking.
Again, you would not be affected by this since AFAIK you’re doing the asylum bow thing.
No the counter to snipe is you don't let the sniper stay at 40m with clear los. This is a l2play 101 issue in EVERY. SINGLE. competitive multiplayer game there is. This is the equivalent of charging a sniper across an open field in an fps with only a shotgun.
The bow skill line exists for a reason. It exists just fine in many other games. Could use some adjustments for sure. But first fix the net code so dysnc doesn't happen as often and create pvp modes that actually offer a clear picture of balance. Cyro definitely isn't that and the 3 teams in BGs muddies the waters bad too.
Last if snipe gets the streak treatment then all spammables should then too. But definitely not really. Snipe is the bow line spamable. What is a bow user supposed to do then for 3-4 sec? Some may say magnum could be but it's not quite either. The bow line is a mess. A clearly defined spammable on par with other lines needs to happen. I personally hate that snipe is that now as it isn't a fun skill but until then bow has maybe crushing weapon as an alternative which isn't fun either.
You aren’t thinking this through.
You don’t know that the snipe is coming until after it’s already in the air.
If you LOS while it’s travelling, the snipe will still hit you.
Furthermore we’re discussinf fights with multiple opponents and a melee aspect to it. Often times you will be engaged with one player and then the sniper starts shooting.
FPS analogies are really not relevant. LOs is great until that LoS is blocked by the other enemy players or a third team in BGs
One snipe shouldn't be killing you. Second multiple opponents should have an advantage. Multiple dawn breakers will kill you too.
And you missed my point yet again, cyro and BGs will never be balanced cause they are trash modes to balance around. No other game balances around them. It would be like wow making all their balance changes based on AV instead of Arenas.
Second, quit letting ZoS off for *** net code and trash pvp content. Quit asking for skills to be nerfed cause the game isn't optimized properly for competitive play. Not everyone wants to play melee spin2win. Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment. Personally it would be better if it flew faster and maybe did a little less damage that way 3 can't be in the air at the same time but you keep asking for nerfs and ZoS will increase flight time and you will have 6 in the air before the first hits cause that's what ZoS thinks balances ranged skills.
well said, you hit the nail right on the head with that explanation.Edited by Gilvoth on November 22, 2018 4:31AM1 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »If I’m not mistaken. Zos has made it crystal clear they no longer want hard hitting abilities stunning. So how come stealth/snipe stuns? And it’s never been addressed.
How come this one ability that’s 40+ meters has the same damage output as dizzy swing and also has major defile or minor fracture. Let’s not forget how people can literally just sit in the back of groups and spam away at one button.
Now before some triggered garbage snipe spamming zerglings try to counter argue. Allow me to shut your arguments down before hand.
“It’s easily able to be heard and it has a cast time, and it’s easy to dodge l2p”
Yes it does. Maybe if I’m alone riding alone and I hear the snipes and it’s a 1v1 situation. If I don’t get health desync which rarely happens. But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots. So no the “it’s easy to hear” excuses doesn’t work. Unless of course it’s just a 1v1 and please. Tell me how many times you get into a 1v1 with a sniper because the second you see said sniper he’s just going to perma cloak away and pooof gone. So no. It’s not as simple as “jUsT d0DgE iT”
Don’t even get me started on health desync. I love when I’m riding alone in cyro or fighting people when my health just suddenly drops from 100% to 0% health as 5 snipes all register at once.
A few times I get lucky and only 2-3 register but I get perma stunned from them since of course stealth snipe stuns and God knows who zos hasn’t fixed that since they once again clearly stated they don’t want hard hittin abilities to stun.
Not to mention this particular bug has never been fixed.
Zos has never even touched snipe each patch unlike literally every other skill they nerf without any hesistation. I’m beginnign to think these incompetent developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spamming trash.
It’s absolutely stupid how a hard hitting ability can just be spammed from 40+ meters away, adds and the guy spamming them can just cloak away and hide only to spam away again. Literally takes no skill. If they removed this trash PvP would be a lot better. Along with the bugs that come with this stupid skill. If there’s anything I missed? Please do tell.
Slot purge dude.
That's standard forum blade advice for standard forum blade skills
On the side note snipe does nowhere near the damage as dizzy swing. Snipe usually crits and offers no counterplay.
Unreal. Just shut this thread down if we’re going to get this garbage. Block and dodge aren’t real answers to snipe?
X% crit means you have the same exact change to crit on anything.. snipe doesn’t have some *** magical crit increase on it
Literally everything you’ve said is coming out your ass
Blocking is not a counter to snipe because 1. the major defile goes through block
2. The cost of blocking it over time will be more expensive than the cost of casting snipe (unless in a 0 lag environment that doesn’t exist).
3. Snipe can be cast at a range that does not allow counterplay blockcasting from the target other than an expensive defensive skill such as wings.
4. Blocking slows the target down significantly, making it harder to get to LOS, and blocking the snipe does not grant stun immunity.
Roll dodge is a viable counter but only if the dodger is close to LOS. Roll dodge’s increasing cost means it is only a short term counter.
Hence why I’d like increasing cost on snipes. This would eliminate the “spam” and reward the targets who counter snipe effectively. Players like you who don’t spam it (you’re more of a shoot twice and kite kind of guy) wouldn’t be significantly affected.
Another option would be to increase the cost based on the distance to target. Sniping at 10m or less costs the same, but a 20m snipe costs 2x as much, a 40m snipe costs 4x as much stam, etc.
This would hinder the snipe spammers ability to escape / break free after spamming from a long distance. It adds an element of risk to their range that is currently lacking.
Again, you would not be affected by this since AFAIK you’re doing the asylum bow thing.
No the counter to snipe is you don't let the sniper stay at 40m with clear los. This is a l2play 101 issue in EVERY. SINGLE. competitive multiplayer game there is. This is the equivalent of charging a sniper across an open field in an fps with only a shotgun.
The bow skill line exists for a reason. It exists just fine in many other games. Could use some adjustments for sure. But first fix the net code so dysnc doesn't happen as often and create pvp modes that actually offer a clear picture of balance. Cyro definitely isn't that and the 3 teams in BGs muddies the waters bad too.
Last if snipe gets the streak treatment then all spammables should then too. But definitely not really. Snipe is the bow line spamable. What is a bow user supposed to do then for 3-4 sec? Some may say magnum could be but it's not quite either. The bow line is a mess. A clearly defined spammable on par with other lines needs to happen. I personally hate that snipe is that now as it isn't a fun skill but until then bow has maybe crushing weapon as an alternative which isn't fun either.
Snipe spamming zergling defected. Learn to play something other than an ez no skill playstyle where you just sit 40 meters away spamming snipe.
This seems to be your only comeback in this thread. In debate this is called an ad hominem, an informal logical fallacy and an indicator that you can't actually make a relevant counter point to what someone has said.9 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Snipe needs the streak treatment.
The defense to snipe - roll dodge - has exponential cost increase if you spam it.
No reason why snipe shouldn’t have the same thing to prevent people from spamming it while still allowing tactical usage of a still absurdly powerful skill.
Reason: One snipe can not hit 10 players. But one roll dodge can avoid snipes from 10 players. Therefore, dodge has a stacking cost, while snipe does not.
I can’t tell if you’re intentionally being ironic or not...
But there’s nothing that can hit 10 players that can also be dodge rolled. You can’t dodge roll AOE abilities.
You literally are providing a supporting argument that backs up my own.
I was simply explaining why dodge roll has a stacking cost while snipe does not. Something that can save you from 10 attacks at once is inherently more powerful than something that can attack one enemy.
Continually dodge rolling would allow you to avoid more damage than one could do by continually sniping, by an order of magnitude.
@Sharee An honest question. Why are you always so set on defending obviously broken stuff?Snipe needs the streak treatment.
The defense to snipe - roll dodge - has exponential cost increase if you spam it.
No reason why snipe shouldn’t have the same thing to prevent people from spamming it while still allowing tactical usage of a still absurdly powerful skill.
Reason: One snipe can not hit 10 players. But one roll dodge can avoid snipes from 10 players. Therefore, dodge has a stacking cost, while snipe does not.
Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
5 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.
3 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Snipes broken. Pure and simple. We all know it.
The 100-0% health deaths are ridiculous. Same as Fear breakfree - broken, and we all know it.
Cage had the same bug and got 5 nerfs into uselessness. Hilarious when folks say Sorcs don't get nerfed.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.
Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.
"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.
Edited by Sharee on November 22, 2018 8:32AM7 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Sharee
So what's more realistically going to happen? A fix of the netcode or a change to the ability?Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Sharee
So what's more realistically going to happen? A fix of the netcode or a change to the ability?
Realistically? Realistically a health desync once in a blue moon is of no consequence, and certainly not the reason to start nerfing abilities left and right. Annoying when it happens, yes. But there's a lot of stuff that annoys me much more than that.Edited by Sharee on November 22, 2018 8:41AM4 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open. Snipers paradise. You are placing the problem on the healer, when actually it is just dumb how much influence one single player can have by just spammig 1 ability.
My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.
Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.
"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.
If you cannot see how risk/reward is out of whack here, I am done talking. If you ask any non zergling/non snipe spammer what they find the most ridiculous thing in pvp, I can guarantee you snipe spammers are in all of thier top 5's. You know why? Because it allows absolute trash tier players to get kills, where they would get absolutely rekt if they ran any other build.Edited by Koensol on November 22, 2018 9:22AM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.
My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.
Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.
"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.
If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.
Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.
Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?
7 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »If I’m not mistaken. Zos has made it crystal clear they no longer want hard hitting abilities stunning. So how come stealth/snipe stuns? And it’s never been addressed.
How come this one ability that’s 40+ meters has the same damage output as dizzy swing and also has major defile or minor fracture. Let’s not forget how people can literally just sit in the back of groups and spam away at one button.
Now before some triggered garbage snipe spamming zerglings try to counter argue. Allow me to shut your arguments down before hand.
“It’s easily able to be heard and it has a cast time, and it’s easy to dodge l2p”
Yes it does. Maybe if I’m alone riding alone and I hear the snipes and it’s a 1v1 situation. If I don’t get health desync which rarely happens. But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots. So no the “it’s easy to hear” excuses doesn’t work. Unless of course it’s just a 1v1 and please. Tell me how many times you get into a 1v1 with a sniper because the second you see said sniper he’s just going to perma cloak away and pooof gone. So no. It’s not as simple as “jUsT d0DgE iT”
Don’t even get me started on health desync. I love when I’m riding alone in cyro or fighting people when my health just suddenly drops from 100% to 0% health as 5 snipes all register at once.
A few times I get lucky and only 2-3 register but I get perma stunned from them since of course stealth snipe stuns and God knows who zos hasn’t fixed that since they once again clearly stated they don’t want hard hittin abilities to stun.
Not to mention this particular bug has never been fixed.
Zos has never even touched snipe each patch unlike literally every other skill they nerf without any hesistation. I’m beginnign to think these incompetent developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spamming trash.
It’s absolutely stupid how a hard hitting ability can just be spammed from 40+ meters away, adds and the guy spamming them can just cloak away and hide only to spam away again. Literally takes no skill. If they removed this trash PvP would be a lot better. Along with the bugs that come with this stupid skill. If there’s anything I missed? Please do tell.
Slot purge dude.
That's standard forum blade advice for standard forum blade skills
On the side note snipe does nowhere near the damage as dizzy swing. Snipe usually crits and offers no counterplay.
Oh yea purge definently will help against constant 5-8k snipe spams from a kid who’s 40 meters away and just spams cloak when I even think about seeing him. Totally works. 100% solid advice couldn’t have done it without slotting purge. Didn’t know purge also heals me all the way to max health, immediately detects all stealthed opponents and makes me unkillable
It is also rumored that slotting purge prevents all forms of oblivion damage
Can't pull up that thread coz you know forumblades rulez..
My noob ass is still searching for this special purge skill. Maybe it's a NB only skill like snipe ( for all intents and purposes )
Edited by PhoenixGrey on November 22, 2018 10:00AM0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Snipes broken. Pure and simple. We all know it.
The 100-0% health deaths are ridiculous. Same as Fear breakfree - broken, and we all know it.
Cage had the same bug and got 5 nerfs into uselessness. Hilarious when folks say Sorcs don't get nerfed.
Health desync's are an intended effect in a nightblade's version of snipe.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.
Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.
My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.
Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.
"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.
If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.
Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.
Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?
Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.
Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.
My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.
Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.
"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.
If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.
Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.
Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?
Its only a 100% uptime on defile if you don't do anything about it.Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.
Bow is a legitimate weapon in this game. Suggesting that it is not "real weapon" or that it just "carries bads" really undermines your argument.7 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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You can evaluate the damage without fixing anything else in the game, and see that it does indeed need an adjustment (especially with Major Defile included).Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment.
I feel like a broken record at this point but...I'm running ~24.5k Physical Resistance with Minor Protection in Battlegrounds, and still get hit for ~10k by snipe crits. If that's what it's doing to me with that level of defense, I can just imagine what it's doing to a more "typical" light armor Magicka build without Minor Protection active.
That's not to say that Snipe is the only thing in the game that needs adjustment, but it seems completely indefensible in its current form. And I'm not saying that it should be nerfed into the ground with no compensation given, either. Perhaps some changes should be made to durability and/or mobility, which would allow for non-Nightblades to be able to run bow builds better than they currently can. Or maybe some other form of utility, or sustainable damage that doesn't have a cast time - I'm open to suggestions.
But you shouldn't be hitting someone with 24.5k Physical Resistance and Minor Protection for 10k damage with a single shot, from stealth. Period. If someone disagrees, I'd like to see them say it outright, rather than skirt around the issue. Declare up front that you should be taking out roughly half of an opposing player's health with one hit from one spammable ability, while in stealth, even if they've spec'd into resists fairly heavily. I think stating it like that would make most reasonable people feel silly.1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
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You can evaluate the damage without fixing anything else in the game, and see that it does indeed need an adjustment (especially with Major Defile included).Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment.
I feel like a broken record at this point but...I'm running ~24.5k Physical Resistance with Minor Protection in Battlegrounds, and still get hit for ~10k by snipe crits. If that's what it's doing to me with that level of defense, I can just imagine what it's doing to a more "typical" light armor Magicka build without Minor Protection active.
That's not to say that Snipe is the only thing in the game that needs adjustment, but it seems completely indefensible in its current form. And I'm not saying that it should be nerfed into the ground with no compensation given, either. Perhaps some changes should be made to durability and/or mobility, which would allow for non-Nightblades to be able to run bow builds better than they currently can. Or maybe some other form of utility, or sustainable damage that doesn't have a cast time - I'm open to suggestions.
But you shouldn't be hitting someone with 24.5k Physical Resistance and Minor Protection for 10k damage with a single shot, from stealth. Period. If someone disagrees, I'd like to see them say it outright, rather than skirt around the issue. Declare up front that you should be taking out roughly half of an opposing player's health with one hit from one spammable ability, while in stealth, even if they've spec'd into resists fairly heavily. I think stating it like that would make most reasonable people feel silly.
I'm going to say that they should be able to do it.
And here is why: Snipe gank builds have no defensive stats. To hit those 10k snipes on you they ignore all of their resistances. Direct opposite of that is a healbot/trollplar with no offensive stats and everything in defense and healing. A sniper has no chances to even dent such opponent.
24,5 k resistances is not even close to cap and minor protection is just one buff. In addition to that you probably have some viable offensive potential. Why should you be unlikable for someone who specced purely in offense? You are not a pure defense spec.
This is not even mentioning the fact that in a good system offense is always stronger than defense since fights have to end.
Bow can't be a DoT spec like some people offer. Unlike tank and spank builds that rely on DoTs bow has no survivability to let their DoTs kill an opponent. And no, kiting doesn't exist in a game with spammable gapclosers and breakable roots. Without burst from snipe bow builds will be walking AP pinatas.
Fix the bugs, fix the desync. Snipe by itself is fine.
5 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Your first comment is up there with the "just slot purge" argument for sloads. Placing the problem with the receiving party in stead of fixing what is broken.
I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.
Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.
My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.
How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.
Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.
"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.
If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.
Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.
Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?
Its only a 100% uptime on defile if you don't do anything about it.Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.
Bow is a legitimate weapon in this game. Suggesting that it is not "real weapon" or that it just "carries bads" really undermines your argument.
And no, it doesn't undermine my argument. The fact that snipe is able to carry a bad player so he can get kills, tells you all you need to know about snipe. Not without coincedence, snipe tends to be at its best in xv1, where the victim cannot realistically see it coming all the time. No other ability shines as much in this scenario than snipe. It is useless and bad in a fair fight, yet overly effective in situations where the other player is already at a disadvantage. Hence why I don't see snipe spamming as a real build, but rather a trash playstyle made for players who are unable to get kills when they have to actually make a combo or use a cc. Remember I never said anything about bow. Just snipe.3 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »If I’m not mistaken. Zos has made it crystal clear they no longer want hard hitting abilities stunning. So how come stealth/snipe stuns? And it’s never been addressed.
How come this one ability that’s 40+ meters has the same damage output as dizzy swing and also has major defile or minor fracture. Let’s not forget how people can literally just sit in the back of groups and spam away at one button.
Now before some triggered garbage snipe spamming zerglings try to counter argue. Allow me to shut your arguments down before hand.
“It’s easily able to be heard and it has a cast time, and it’s easy to dodge l2p”
Yes it does. Maybe if I’m alone riding alone and I hear the snipes and it’s a 1v1 situation. If I don’t get health desync which rarely happens. But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots. So no the “it’s easy to hear” excuses doesn’t work. Unless of course it’s just a 1v1 and please. Tell me how many times you get into a 1v1 with a sniper because the second you see said sniper he’s just going to perma cloak away and pooof gone. So no. It’s not as simple as “jUsT d0DgE iT”
Don’t even get me started on health desync. I love when I’m riding alone in cyro or fighting people when my health just suddenly drops from 100% to 0% health as 5 snipes all register at once.
A few times I get lucky and only 2-3 register but I get perma stunned from them since of course stealth snipe stuns and God knows who zos hasn’t fixed that since they once again clearly stated they don’t want hard hittin abilities to stun.
Not to mention this particular bug has never been fixed.
Zos has never even touched snipe each patch unlike literally every other skill they nerf without any hesistation. I’m beginnign to think these incompetent developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spamming trash.
It’s absolutely stupid how a hard hitting ability can just be spammed from 40+ meters away, adds and the guy spamming them can just cloak away and hide only to spam away again. Literally takes no skill. If they removed this trash PvP would be a lot better. Along with the bugs that come with this stupid skill. If there’s anything I missed? Please do tell.
Slot purge dude.
That's standard forum blade advice for standard forum blade skills
On the side note snipe does nowhere near the damage as dizzy swing. Snipe usually crits and offers no counterplay.
Unreal. Just shut this thread down if we’re going to get this garbage. Block and dodge aren’t real answers to snipe?
X% crit means you have the same exact change to crit on anything.. snipe doesn’t have some *** magical crit increase on it
Literally everything you’ve said is coming out your ass
Blocking is not a counter to snipe because 1. the major defile goes through block
2. The cost of blocking it over time will be more expensive than the cost of casting snipe (unless in a 0 lag environment that doesn’t exist).
3. Snipe can be cast at a range that does not allow counterplay blockcasting from the target other than an expensive defensive skill such as wings.
4. Blocking slows the target down significantly, making it harder to get to LOS, and blocking the snipe does not grant stun immunity.
Roll dodge is a viable counter but only if the dodger is close to LOS. Roll dodge’s increasing cost means it is only a short term counter.
Hence why I’d like increasing cost on snipes. This would eliminate the “spam” and reward the targets who counter snipe effectively. Players like you who don’t spam it (you’re more of a shoot twice and kite kind of guy) wouldn’t be significantly affected.
Another option would be to increase the cost based on the distance to target. Sniping at 10m or less costs the same, but a 20m snipe costs 2x as much, a 40m snipe costs 4x as much stam, etc.
This would hinder the snipe spammers ability to escape / break free after spamming from a long distance. It adds an element of risk to their range that is currently lacking.
Again, you would not be affected by this since AFAIK you’re doing the asylum bow thing.
No the counter to snipe is you don't let the sniper stay at 40m with clear los. This is a l2play 101 issue in EVERY. SINGLE. competitive multiplayer game there is. This is the equivalent of charging a sniper across an open field in an fps with only a shotgun.
The bow skill line exists for a reason. It exists just fine in many other games. Could use some adjustments for sure. But first fix the net code so dysnc doesn't happen as often and create pvp modes that actually offer a clear picture of balance. Cyro definitely isn't that and the 3 teams in BGs muddies the waters bad too.
Last if snipe gets the streak treatment then all spammables should then too. But definitely not really. Snipe is the bow line spamable. What is a bow user supposed to do then for 3-4 sec? Some may say magnum could be but it's not quite either. The bow line is a mess. A clearly defined spammable on par with other lines needs to happen. I personally hate that snipe is that now as it isn't a fun skill but until then bow has maybe crushing weapon as an alternative which isn't fun either.
You aren’t thinking this through.
You don’t know that the snipe is coming until after it’s already in the air.
If you LOS while it’s travelling, the snipe will still hit you.
Furthermore we’re discussinf fights with multiple opponents and a melee aspect to it. Often times you will be engaged with one player and then the sniper starts shooting.
FPS analogies are really not relevant. LOs is great until that LoS is blocked by the other enemy players or a third team in BGs
One snipe shouldn't be killing you. Second multiple opponents should have an advantage. Multiple dawn breakers will kill you too.
And you missed my point yet again, cyro and BGs will never be balanced cause they are trash modes to balance around. No other game balances around them. It would be like wow making all their balance changes based on AV instead of Arenas.
Second, quit letting ZoS off for *** net code and trash pvp content. Quit asking for skills to be nerfed cause the game isn't optimized properly for competitive play. Not everyone wants to play melee spin2win. Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment. Personally it would be better if it flew faster and maybe did a little less damage that way 3 can't be in the air at the same time but you keep asking for nerfs and ZoS will increase flight time and you will have 6 in the air before the first hits cause that's what ZoS thinks balances ranged skills.
well said, you hit the nail right on the head with that explanation.
I don't know who you are... but man, I see you everywhere waffling on when it comes to these broken skills and noob-friendly mechanics. - Always in defence of them as well.
They didn't hit the nail on the head at all - One snipe kills nobody, period. One snipe that is now a collection of 3 snipes all landing at the same time kills people. They often hit harder than peoples soggy dawnbreakers because if you're sitting in stealth 24/7 pressing 1 ability, there's absolutely no need to build for anything other than pure damage - And as mentioned, sometimes they hit 3 at a time, with a defile, a desync and by the time you've turned to look, they're back playing hide and seek.
It's a 1 button build and it's embarrassing that it's been as strong as it has for as long as it has.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)6 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »If I’m not mistaken. Zos has made it crystal clear they no longer want hard hitting abilities stunning. So how come stealth/snipe stuns? And it’s never been addressed.
How come this one ability that’s 40+ meters has the same damage output as dizzy swing and also has major defile or minor fracture. Let’s not forget how people can literally just sit in the back of groups and spam away at one button.
Now before some triggered garbage snipe spamming zerglings try to counter argue. Allow me to shut your arguments down before hand.
“It’s easily able to be heard and it has a cast time, and it’s easy to dodge l2p”
Yes it does. Maybe if I’m alone riding alone and I hear the snipes and it’s a 1v1 situation. If I don’t get health desync which rarely happens. But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots. So no the “it’s easy to hear” excuses doesn’t work. Unless of course it’s just a 1v1 and please. Tell me how many times you get into a 1v1 with a sniper because the second you see said sniper he’s just going to perma cloak away and pooof gone. So no. It’s not as simple as “jUsT d0DgE iT”
Don’t even get me started on health desync. I love when I’m riding alone in cyro or fighting people when my health just suddenly drops from 100% to 0% health as 5 snipes all register at once.
A few times I get lucky and only 2-3 register but I get perma stunned from them since of course stealth snipe stuns and God knows who zos hasn’t fixed that since they once again clearly stated they don’t want hard hittin abilities to stun.
Not to mention this particular bug has never been fixed.
Zos has never even touched snipe each patch unlike literally every other skill they nerf without any hesistation. I’m beginnign to think these incompetent developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spamming trash.
It’s absolutely stupid how a hard hitting ability can just be spammed from 40+ meters away, adds and the guy spamming them can just cloak away and hide only to spam away again. Literally takes no skill. If they removed this trash PvP would be a lot better. Along with the bugs that come with this stupid skill. If there’s anything I missed? Please do tell.
Slot purge dude.
That's standard forum blade advice for standard forum blade skills
On the side note snipe does nowhere near the damage as dizzy swing. Snipe usually crits and offers no counterplay.
Unreal. Just shut this thread down if we’re going to get this garbage. Block and dodge aren’t real answers to snipe?
X% crit means you have the same exact change to crit on anything.. snipe doesn’t have some *** magical crit increase on it
Literally everything you’ve said is coming out your ass
Blocking is not a counter to snipe because 1. the major defile goes through block
2. The cost of blocking it over time will be more expensive than the cost of casting snipe (unless in a 0 lag environment that doesn’t exist).
3. Snipe can be cast at a range that does not allow counterplay blockcasting from the target other than an expensive defensive skill such as wings.
4. Blocking slows the target down significantly, making it harder to get to LOS, and blocking the snipe does not grant stun immunity.
Roll dodge is a viable counter but only if the dodger is close to LOS. Roll dodge’s increasing cost means it is only a short term counter.
Hence why I’d like increasing cost on snipes. This would eliminate the “spam” and reward the targets who counter snipe effectively. Players like you who don’t spam it (you’re more of a shoot twice and kite kind of guy) wouldn’t be significantly affected.
Another option would be to increase the cost based on the distance to target. Sniping at 10m or less costs the same, but a 20m snipe costs 2x as much, a 40m snipe costs 4x as much stam, etc.
This would hinder the snipe spammers ability to escape / break free after spamming from a long distance. It adds an element of risk to their range that is currently lacking.
Again, you would not be affected by this since AFAIK you’re doing the asylum bow thing.
No the counter to snipe is you don't let the sniper stay at 40m with clear los. This is a l2play 101 issue in EVERY. SINGLE. competitive multiplayer game there is. This is the equivalent of charging a sniper across an open field in an fps with only a shotgun.
The bow skill line exists for a reason. It exists just fine in many other games. Could use some adjustments for sure. But first fix the net code so dysnc doesn't happen as often and create pvp modes that actually offer a clear picture of balance. Cyro definitely isn't that and the 3 teams in BGs muddies the waters bad too.
Last if snipe gets the streak treatment then all spammables should then too. But definitely not really. Snipe is the bow line spamable. What is a bow user supposed to do then for 3-4 sec? Some may say magnum could be but it's not quite either. The bow line is a mess. A clearly defined spammable on par with other lines needs to happen. I personally hate that snipe is that now as it isn't a fun skill but until then bow has maybe crushing weapon as an alternative which isn't fun either.
Snipe spamming zergling defected. Learn to play something other than an ez no skill playstyle where you just sit 40 meters away spamming snipe.
This seems to be your only comeback in this thread. In debate this is called an ad hominem, an informal logical fallacy and an indicator that you can't actually make a relevant counter point to what someone has said.
It’s my only comeback because I’ve listed every point and counter to all your snipe spamming defenders. Yet you all keep saying exactly what my main argument countered. So I’m not going to repeat myself to people who defend garbage playstyle. I’ll just tell them how it is0 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I never said that my resistances were at the cap, but I bet they're a fair bit higher than most other magicka builds (barring some healers and DKs). Just how much damage and/or sustain do you expect Magicka builds to sacrifice in order to not lose half our HP to a single ability activation? Stamina builds are already generally superior for offensive roles, how much bigger would you like the gap to become?
You can evaluate the damage without fixing anything else in the game, and see that it does indeed need an adjustment (especially with Major Defile included).Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment.
I feel like a broken record at this point but...I'm running ~24.5k Physical Resistance with Minor Protection in Battlegrounds, and still get hit for ~10k by snipe crits. If that's what it's doing to me with that level of defense, I can just imagine what it's doing to a more "typical" light armor Magicka build without Minor Protection active.
That's not to say that Snipe is the only thing in the game that needs adjustment, but it seems completely indefensible in its current form. And I'm not saying that it should be nerfed into the ground with no compensation given, either. Perhaps some changes should be made to durability and/or mobility, which would allow for non-Nightblades to be able to run bow builds better than they currently can. Or maybe some other form of utility, or sustainable damage that doesn't have a cast time - I'm open to suggestions.
But you shouldn't be hitting someone with 24.5k Physical Resistance and Minor Protection for 10k damage with a single shot, from stealth. Period. If someone disagrees, I'd like to see them say it outright, rather than skirt around the issue. Declare up front that you should be taking out roughly half of an opposing player's health with one hit from one spammable ability, while in stealth, even if they've spec'd into resists fairly heavily. I think stating it like that would make most reasonable people feel silly.
I'm going to say that they should be able to do it.
And here is why: Snipe gank builds have no defensive stats. To hit those 10k snipes on you they ignore all of their resistances. Direct opposite of that is a healbot/trollplar with no offensive stats and everything in defense and healing. A sniper has no chances to even dent such opponent.
24,5 k resistances is not even close to cap and minor protection is just one buff. In addition to that you probably have some viable offensive potential. Why should you be unlikable for someone who specced purely in offense? You are not a pure defense spec.
This is not even mentioning the fact that in a good system offense is always stronger than defense since fights have to end.
Bow can't be a DoT spec like some people offer. Unlike tank and spank builds that rely on DoTs bow has no survivability to let their DoTs kill an opponent. And no, kiting doesn't exist in a game with spammable gapclosers and breakable roots. Without burst from snipe bow builds will be walking AP pinatas.
Fix the bugs, fix the desync. Snipe by itself is fine.
Minor Protection is "just one buff" that provides 8% damage reduction, which most classes don't have readily accessible. And why on earth would I be "unkillable" for a sniper that couldn't knock out half my HP in one shot? I'm killable by lots of other classes that do far less per-hit damage. Maybe snipe damage should be toned down while their defenses/utility/mobility are improved, to be brought more in line with other builds.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
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I never said that my resistances were at the cap, but I bet they're a fair bit higher than most other magicka builds (barring some healers and DKs). Just how much damage and/or sustain do you expect Magicka builds to sacrifice in order to not lose half our HP to a single ability activation? Stamina builds are already generally superior for offensive roles, how much bigger would you like the gap to become?
You can evaluate the damage without fixing anything else in the game, and see that it does indeed need an adjustment (especially with Major Defile included).Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment.
I feel like a broken record at this point but...I'm running ~24.5k Physical Resistance with Minor Protection in Battlegrounds, and still get hit for ~10k by snipe crits. If that's what it's doing to me with that level of defense, I can just imagine what it's doing to a more "typical" light armor Magicka build without Minor Protection active.
That's not to say that Snipe is the only thing in the game that needs adjustment, but it seems completely indefensible in its current form. And I'm not saying that it should be nerfed into the ground with no compensation given, either. Perhaps some changes should be made to durability and/or mobility, which would allow for non-Nightblades to be able to run bow builds better than they currently can. Or maybe some other form of utility, or sustainable damage that doesn't have a cast time - I'm open to suggestions.
But you shouldn't be hitting someone with 24.5k Physical Resistance and Minor Protection for 10k damage with a single shot, from stealth. Period. If someone disagrees, I'd like to see them say it outright, rather than skirt around the issue. Declare up front that you should be taking out roughly half of an opposing player's health with one hit from one spammable ability, while in stealth, even if they've spec'd into resists fairly heavily. I think stating it like that would make most reasonable people feel silly.
I'm going to say that they should be able to do it.
And here is why: Snipe gank builds have no defensive stats. To hit those 10k snipes on you they ignore all of their resistances. Direct opposite of that is a healbot/trollplar with no offensive stats and everything in defense and healing. A sniper has no chances to even dent such opponent.
24,5 k resistances is not even close to cap and minor protection is just one buff. In addition to that you probably have some viable offensive potential. Why should you be unlikable for someone who specced purely in offense? You are not a pure defense spec.
This is not even mentioning the fact that in a good system offense is always stronger than defense since fights have to end.
Bow can't be a DoT spec like some people offer. Unlike tank and spank builds that rely on DoTs bow has no survivability to let their DoTs kill an opponent. And no, kiting doesn't exist in a game with spammable gapclosers and breakable roots. Without burst from snipe bow builds will be walking AP pinatas.
Fix the bugs, fix the desync. Snipe by itself is fine.
Minor Protection is "just one buff" that provides 8% damage reduction, which most classes don't have readily accessible. And why on earth would I be "unkillable" for a sniper that couldn't knock out half my HP in one shot? I'm killable by lots of other classes that do far less per-hit damage. Maybe snipe damage should be toned down while their defenses/utility/mobility are improved, to be brought more in line with other builds.
You haven't adressed my point. A build built solely to deal high burst damage should be able to deal high burst damage. He paid for it by sacrificing all other stats. It's not about magicka vs stamina. This is rock/paper/scissors gameplay. Snipers with high burst are good at killing light armor mages and are completely stomped over by a heavy brawler.
And your minor protection is completely negated by minor berserk that sniper probably has. Your argument sounds like "I have minor protection so I shouldn't be hit by high burst" and is ridiculous.
typos
Edited by Royaji on November 22, 2018 1:05PM4 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭I love how people have the audacity to defend carry noob builds lol.
I've never seen one 1vx video that wasn't the current crutch meta either. Get used to it, skills and gear always carry. All these so called "skilled" 1vxers are all running the same ***. Crutching on poisons, pots, bleeds, troll king, earthgore or whatever the current broken op meta is.
Now this isn't to say the bow line couldn't use some work. But it if it truly were fixed it would make it worse not better for you potatoes that don't think you should have to be capable of having the situational awareness to deal with ranged combatants as there really is no such thing as ranged combat in eso anymore outside of some stuff from the top of keeps. The whiners got sorc nerfed into the ground, mNB still has to close to use their ult in their burst combo and dps Magden or ranged magplar haven't been a thing in a long time although ranged magplar could make a comeback. Most the time all these so called "elite" players or people who play "real builds" don't even slot a gap closer cause melee dominates pvp so badly everyone comes to them. It's trash and boring gameplay now that everyone is running HA bleed builds with ult dump combos to finish.
Also sorry but due to the time to kill (really the prevalence of self heals) a ranged defile is needed. Now a trade off of some burst damage on snipe could be doable if it came with some other adjustments to the bow line. Snipe spammers don't spam snipe necessarily cause they are bad but cause it is the only thing they have. Poison inject, then snipe till poison inject needs re-upped. So if you are going to call for adjustments at least understand the skill line. Generic whining is what got us here in the first place. Everyone cried about ranged skills so what did eso do? Increased travel time on all ranged skills. This lead to 3-4 snipes being in the air and hitting you at what appears to be the same time cause they used that dumb bandaid fix instead optimizing the net code or addmiting cyro was a failed experiment and current gen systems were never going to be able to run it properly or that large scale pvp always turns into a zerg spam fest like in every other game to date.6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPZpSw68Yz8