Re-shift your priorities, ZeniMax Online Studios.

Aebaradath · November 2018

Seriously. Every time some trivial event strolls by the game becomes borderline unplayable just because a mere 50+ people stand by a World Boss (and only top 12 get loot. smartest decision ever by the way! Especially during an event. Much logic, much awestruck) or because of double loot in a zone and more people are lag-running around desperately fighting for that one node because they aren't client-side. The game is so much fun when you get ridiculous latency and ping spikes and lag, or when you get kicked to the log-in screen with NO error message whatsoever.

Oh, sure, you can blame it being the weekend. Sure... But for a game that has taken a day out of the week for almost 5 years in the name of "megaserver patch maintenance" ought to be able to handle an event by now--especially a tiny one like the Clockwork City. But no, instead we got (in my opinion) a server that has gotten progressively worse over the years and ZOS hasn't shown a single thought or care for that.

Let's neglect the game itself; ignore fixing pre-existing bugs that have been in-game for a long time, let's not take the time to fix and improve server stability (that weekly "maintenance" is a joke). Ignore PvP (content and perfomance-wise) completely. Let's not communicate with the community as much as we should. Let's not increment smaller balance patches more frequently BUT let's use our Class Representatives as a scapegoat tool. Little note here: I personally think Class Reps are being under-utilized and taking the brunt of hate when it comes to ZOS' own balancing decisions.

Instead their priority comes across as dishing out content as fast as possible, no matter what. Just dish it out. Put more re-textured stuff in the Crown Store, introduce new Gamble Crates with an already bloated reward table, and cram as much stuff possible in the Store. Or nerfing everything into Oblivion because it's over-performing, rather than buffing the under-used/under-appreciated/underwhelming sets, skills, passives, whatever. This is how I feel ZOS rewards the people who support them. I don't understand why they have such askew priorities and are incapable to focus on the important things.

Anyway, this is just my two cents on it. And ZOS won't read it, I already know that much. Criticism and ZOS are like water and oil, their past behavior is a testament to that.

P.S. Before Mr. and Mrs. Smartie Pants come in here all "just git a better pc bruh" or "i want ur stuff pl0x" - don't waste my or your time doing that. I'm sure you'll still get your e-peen forum points for writing that elsewhere.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

They just need to get people interested to buy CWC somehow since there are no OP sets so nobody from "people-who-don't-invest-money-in-games" are buying it.

ESO_Nightingale · November 2018

inb4 inb4rers

Elsonso · November 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Seriously. Every time some trivial event strolls by the game becomes borderline unplayable just because a mere 50+ people stand by a World Boss (and only top 12 get loot. smartest decision ever by the way! Especially during an event. Much logic, much awestruck) or because of double loot in a zone and more people are lag-running around desperately fighting for that one node because they aren't client-side. The game is so much fun when you get ridiculous latency and ping spikes and lag, or when you get kicked to the log-in screen with NO error message whatsoever.

We've had a situation for along time where the Live Services folks apparently have no veto over what crazy ideas development has, and does not have the budget to make the infrastructure necessary to support those ideas. If they do have the power, they are not using it.

Witness the first anniversary event where everyone was trying to get to Vulkhel Guard to talk to Chef and no one could move because the entire event was apparently designed to showcase to the world how poorly the game and servers handled many people in one place.

In one form or another, this gets repeated each holiday where players have to congregate in a single location. We will get another one when everyone descends on Eastmarch for New Life Festival.

I am sure that ZOS justifies this by saying that things will even out after a few days. It is much cheaper to say that, so I can't really fault the logic. It looks bad, though.

As for the monster drops, I have to agree that ZOS has a blind spot here. They don't want the boss drops being exploited, but then make it so that people who are not exploiting them can't get them. We get credit for the boss kill, and if that happens, we should get the rewards, too.

I don't want the resource nodes to be client side. I have never had any trouble getting the "double" nodes in any of these events. This CWC event is no different. The one change I would support is that if something drops a daily quest item when we have the quest, but not when we don't have the quest, it should always drop that daily quest item. The CWC resource node daily, for example. Let us stockpile them, if we want. We are doing the same work, just not at the time we have the quest. I really don't see the difference.

heaven13 · November 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

The one change I would support is that if something drops a daily quest item when we have the quest, but not when we don't have the quest, it should always drop that daily quest item. The CWC resource node daily, for example. Let us stockpile them, if we want. We are doing the same work, just not at the time we have the quest. I really don't see the difference.

It already works this way for getting crafting certifications. If you have the mats, you can proceed without needing to gather more. It also works for the crow dailies; can stockpile in advance and then just turn in. I see no reason this change couldn't be implemented for others.

LordSkyKnight · November 2018

Elsonso · November 2018

heaven13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

The one change I would support is that if something drops a daily quest item when we have the quest, but not when we don't have the quest, it should always drop that daily quest item. The CWC resource node daily, for example. Let us stockpile them, if we want. We are doing the same work, just not at the time we have the quest. I really don't see the difference.

It already works this way for getting crafting certifications. If you have the mats, you can proceed without needing to gather more. It also works for the crow dailies; can stockpile in advance and then just turn in. I see no reason this change couldn't be implemented for others.

Oh yeah, there are places where this works. Even in Clockwork City, if you have what the Crows want, you can turn around and claim the reward immediately. Sometimes, without even leaving the conversation that gave you the quest. They just need to extend that to all of those little daily quests that want some special little thing that is added to another resource, but isn't available if you don't have that quest. It's not like "runic residue" can't be available all the time from nodes in CWC. My thinking is that once you qualify for the daily quest, that stuff should just drop automatically.

Note that I am not talking about the second item from those CWC resource quests, like the inert runelights, counterfeit coal, or the Q-36 space modulator.

GreenhaloX · November 2018

I'm just hating all of Zen, ZOS and Bethesda right now (can't hate on Gina, though. Ha ha. She tries..) All in seriousness, this game is just ffing jacked the hell up! Too many damn loading in, loading screen and travel crashes, I cannot count anymore since Murkmire and this CwC Anniversary event. Shitt so broken with combat mechanics. Can't hit crap with 2H/Dizz. Man, not only is the heavy lightning staff attack all jacked up like the Dizz, even Crystal Blast of the sorc is resetting if the reticle goes off the target or boss. Majority of your effort is trying your damn earnest to keep that reticle on the target/boss as you move and weave. Most of the time, it still misfires and reset while your toon is getting pommeled. What a croc of shitt! I'm not even going to get into the rest of the bullshitt going on. Not much hair left to pull out..

Rain_Greyraven · November 2018

I've been talking about how I believe this is an issue with the RAD Tools suite for a couple days now, more specifically the RAD tools Telemetry tool and the Oodle data compression tool for TCP and UPD.

If I'm correct there really isn't much live services can do until the folks over at RAD get their *** together. Oodle has a brand new leviathan build, but it has issues with the Telemetry suite and the Miles sound tool in RAD. When issues like this arise you are pretty much hostage to the tools you use and if your engine is built with a suite like this you can't just unplug it and use something else.

I know that this is frustrating and I know it's being ongoing, but folks need to understand especially with games the problems are often times the third party tools the developers decide to use, and some of these tool makers are a one maybe two man operations and are usually lead by some eccentric individuals.

There is a reason I lament Zenimax for not using the Unreal engine. I won't be so naive than to tell you to cut ZoS some slack (Because /npc: blah blah Zenimax bad) but there are factual reason on why something is taking forever or why something still isn't fixed, and it rarely is John Q Developer just doesn't care.

Thoragaal · November 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

[...] and it rarely is John Q Developer just doesn't care.

But you're saying there's a chance?
GET THE PITCHFORKS!

Ertosi · November 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Seriously. Every time some trivial event strolls by the game becomes borderline unplayable just because a mere 50+ people stand by a World Boss (and only top 12 get loot. smartest decision ever by the way! Especially during an event. Much logic, much awestruck) or because of double loot in a zone and more people are lag-running around desperately fighting for that one node because they aren't client-side.

Haven't had any troubles farming CWC bosses or running nodes there myself, but if you are then why are you sticking around that area? Makes no sense to do so when its only 1 area out of many in Nirn. If the masses are flocking somewhere, that means less people farming other areas. And for tickets isn't a good reason as those are just once daily; bargain with the crows and you could be done with it. Things are only difficult when you choose to make them so.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=T_mrQ1YZT-c

Side note: After running the Undaunted Pledges yesterday (EH2 and Volenfell) after the final boss there was always at least 1 pug complaining that they didn't get their event tickets... just wow.

Elsonso · November 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

There is a reason I lament Zenimax for not using the Unreal engine. I won't be so naive than to tell you to cut ZoS some slack (Because /npc: blah blah Zenimax bad) but there are factual reason on why something is taking forever or why something still isn't fixed, and it rarely is John Q Developer just doesn't care.

My personal opinion is that the Unreal engine would not support this game for the scale they wanted. The megaserver concept is the right decision for this game. It is so nice not having to think about what server I need to be on. The trick is realizing that concept. Unreal isn't going to be able to do that.

ZeniMax Media studios like to use in-house engine technology, even if it is based on, or inspired by, some third-party engine. It is hardly surprising that ZOS is forging forward with their own engine. The Engine with No Name. We will see if they continue to use it for their next game. (Edit: my hope that it is, and that they spend the money to back port the inevitable fixes and improvements to ESO. Hey, I can dream, can't I?)

peacenote · November 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Seriously. Every time some trivial event strolls by the game becomes borderline unplayable just because a mere 50+ people stand by a World Boss (and only top 12 get loot. smartest decision ever by the way! Especially during an event. Much logic, much awestruck) or because of double loot in a zone and more people are lag-running around desperately fighting for that one node because they aren't client-side.

Oh, well ty at least for sharing this; I had not realized this had been changed and was so confused.

I would agree this is not a great decision.

redspecter23 · November 2018

Fighting world bosses isn't even a requirement for event tickets for the Clockwork event. Yes, only the top 12 get loot and yes there may very well be 50 people there, but why? Double loot containers which have a potential to drop loot that is still less valuable than what you'd get for equal effort in other zones?

As with many other events, the worst time to go to clockwork city is during double node/loot container events if they are overcrowded.

If I really want the motif drops from those containers, they are unbound and flooding the market right now. Seems like a good time to just buy them. If I want event tickets, I'll do the daily delve or crow quest, neither of which can be spoiled by 50 players swarming a world boss.

Rain_Greyraven · November 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

There is a reason I lament Zenimax for not using the Unreal engine. I won't be so naive than to tell you to cut ZoS some slack (Because /npc: blah blah Zenimax bad) but there are factual reason on why something is taking forever or why something still isn't fixed, and it rarely is John Q Developer just doesn't care.

My personal opinion is that the Unreal engine would not support this game for the scale they wanted. The megaserver concept is the right decision for this game. It is so nice not having to think about what server I need to be on. The trick is realizing that concept. Unreal isn't going to be able to do that.

ZeniMax Media studios like to use in-house engine technology, even if it is based on, or inspired by, some third-party engine. It is hardly surprising that ZOS is forging forward with their own engine. The Engine with No Name. We will see if they continue to use it for their next game. (Edit: my hope that it is, and that they spend the money to back port the inevitable fixes and improvements to ESO. Hey, I can dream, can't I?)

I sorta agree, DC universe online does use a type of mega server, and I do know that model is something EPIC mega games wants to pursue more, but you are correct it isn't there yet... still look at all the things the engine loses the texturing abilities, dynamic/procedural abilities, a better cloth engine, the fact that adding something as simple as cloaks makes the engine crash....I think the give overall is much more than the take.

I call the engine the ESOteric engine...though I doubt Zenimax will adopt such a derogatory name.

frostz417 · November 2018

The death of this game will not be of people being bored of it. Rather it will be people just tired of our incompetent brainless developers failiure to fix or even address the constant bugs they add in with each new patch. Like trying to put make up on a piece of **** you can try to make it pretty but it’s still **** and until you actually fix the real issue it’ll always be ***

Elsonso · November 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

I sorta agree, DC universe online does use a type of mega server, and I do know that model is something EPIC mega games wants to pursue more, but you are correct it isn't there yet... still look at all the things the engine loses the texturing abilities, dynamic/procedural abilities, a better cloth engine, the fact that adding something as simple as cloaks makes the engine crash....I think the give overall is much more than the take.

I call the engine the ESOteric engine...though I doubt Zenimax will adopt such a derogatory name.

on your name for the engine. As far as I know, they don't have their own name, which is highly unusual. It probably means that they can't formally name it due to IP issues.

I have no doubt that the current engine resembles a Rube Goldberg invention... no, a Frankenstein's monster... more than a designed thing. I know they were inspired by Hero Engine, and it would not surprise me to find Creation Engine and id Tech mixed in.

As for capes, that was pretty well explained back in 2016 at GDC, and why Sage was adamant about "no capes". We would be lightyears ahead today if they had not shipped with DX9 support, which I think contributed to a lot of the limitations that we have today.

It would be a massive undertaking to update this game to eliminate the DX9 influences and revisit all those decisions they made. I'd love to see them realize their goal to display 200 characters on the screen in PVP. I doubt this wiill ever happen. Still, I can dream that they want to do something like that.

munster1404 · November 2018

I wish that ZoS could quicken the respawn time of resource nodes.

Rain_Greyraven · November 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

I sorta agree, DC universe online does use a type of mega server, and I do know that model is something EPIC mega games wants to pursue more, but you are correct it isn't there yet... still look at all the things the engine loses the texturing abilities, dynamic/procedural abilities, a better cloth engine, the fact that adding something as simple as cloaks makes the engine crash....I think the give overall is much more than the take.

I call the engine the ESOteric engine...though I doubt Zenimax will adopt such a derogatory name.

on your name for the engine. As far as I know, they don't have their own name, which is highly unusual. It probably means that they can't formally name it due to IP issues.

I have no doubt that the current engine resembles a Rube Goldberg invention... no, a Frankenstein's monster... more than a designed thing. I know they were inspired by Hero Engine, and it would not surprise me to find Creation Engine and id Tech mixed in.

As for capes, that was pretty well explained back in 2016 at GDC, and why Sage was adamant about "no capes". We would be lightyears ahead today if they had not shipped with DX9 support, which I think contributed to a lot of the limitations that we have today.

It would be a massive undertaking to update this game to eliminate the DX9 influences and revisit all those decisions they made. I'd love to see them realize their goal to display 200 characters on the screen in PVP. I doubt this wiill ever happen. Still, I can dream that they want to do something like that.

Oh no doubt I liken it more to Rube Goldberg....as I don't think the Brain to the ESO engine is Abbie normal just a lot of other bits....

**Meanwhile Square Enix just announced they are cutting support for DX9 and win 32, because they are overhauling the FFXIV engine.

Makes me sad that Zenimax isn't so forward thinking

Mr_Walker · November 2018

Not only that, but this weekend it's been constant disconnects when travelling between zones.

Sort it out.

kargen27 · November 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Seriously. Every time some trivial event strolls by the game becomes borderline unplayable just because a mere 50+ people stand by a World Boss (and only top 12 get loot. smartest decision ever by the way! Especially during an event. Much logic, much awestruck) or because of double loot in a zone and more people are lag-running around desperately fighting for that one node because they aren't client-side. The game is so much fun when you get ridiculous latency and ping spikes and lag, or when you get kicked to the log-in screen with NO error message whatsoever.

Oh, sure, you can blame it being the weekend. Sure... But for a game that has taken a day out of the week for almost 5 years in the name of "megaserver patch maintenance" ought to be able to handle an event by now--especially a tiny one like the Clockwork City. But no, instead we got (in my opinion) a server that has gotten progressively worse over the years and ZOS hasn't shown a single thought or care for that.

Let's neglect the game itself; ignore fixing pre-existing bugs that have been in-game for a long time, let's not take the time to fix and improve server stability (that weekly "maintenance" is a joke). Ignore PvP (content and perfomance-wise) completely. Let's not communicate with the community as much as we should. Let's not increment smaller balance patches more frequently BUT let's use our Class Representatives as a scapegoat tool. Little note here: I personally think Class Reps are being under-utilized and taking the brunt of hate when it comes to ZOS' own balancing decisions.

Instead their priority comes across as dishing out content as fast as possible, no matter what. Just dish it out. Put more re-textured stuff in the Crown Store, introduce new Gamble Crates with an already bloated reward table, and cram as much stuff possible in the Store. Or nerfing everything into Oblivion because it's over-performing, rather than buffing the under-used/under-appreciated/underwhelming sets, skills, passives, whatever. This is how I feel ZOS rewards the people who support them. I don't understand why they have such askew priorities and are incapable to focus on the important things.

Anyway, this is just my two cents on it. And ZOS won't read it, I already know that much. Criticism and ZOS are like water and oil, their past behavior is a testament to that.

P.S. Before Mr. and Mrs. Smartie Pants come in here all "just git a better pc bruh" or "i want ur stuff pl0x" - don't waste my or your time doing that. I'm sure you'll still get your e-peen forum points for writing that elsewhere.

Why do you assume they are ignoring bugs? Are you somehow under the impression that the same people that troubleshoot the game are the ones that maintain the game, create new content and/or plan events?

JackDaniell · November 2018

Zenimax again just beeding players because of poor game performance.

The impact that this has on the image of this game is devastating. Content creators dont stick around for ESO, media does not get made. This is essentialy free advertisement out the window because the server just isnt "important".

How many millions of players do they need to loose to lag before it's a priority? How many millions of potential players/revenue do they loose because all game media is filled with laggy gameplay?

Imtired of getting comments on my videos that say

" Dam this PvP looks so fun but i just could never buy this game because all the gameplay looks so darn laggy...."

It's not like as a content creator i havent tried to advocate for better performance over constant lag inducing updates. Honestly this is what has pushed media away from this game. Lag has had a devastating impact on the public opinion of ESO that it may not be able to recover from.

D0PAMINE · November 2018

Its kind of sad actually. I can spam an execute on any of my builds, even support builds with like 5k dps, and I've gotten loot every single time. Litterally every time, so I post in Zone chat to players who are frustrated that they are not getting loot. It would not be difficult imo to keep certain drops rare while givi g something to everyone, even if it's trash. The way it is now is too focused on combatting bots, yet it affects players more. I agree with you.

As for the unplayability, once again, I agree 100%.

oxygen_thief · November 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

Zenimax again just beeding players because of poor game performance.

The impact that this has on the image of this game is devastating.

i think they are ignoring this problems because they dont lose too much. the major part of players doesnt do trials or pvp thus they are indifferent to lags or balance issues. the major part of whiners here are still paying them for the bag so why should they care?

JackDaniell · November 2018

oxygen_thief wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Zenimax again just beeding players because of poor game performance.

The impact that this has on the image of this game is devastating.

i think they are ignoring this problems because they dont lose too much. the major part of players doesnt do trials or pvp thus they are indifferent to lags or balance issues. the major part of whiners here are still paying them for the bag so why should they care?

I know that a majority of players do not engade in regular high end content. But go to youtube and type in ESO.
Gaurenteed 50% of what you find will be PvP gameplay, even though pvp players only make up 10% of the player pop. So even if a majority of players do not PvP, the content produced by pvp is just as popular as pve content.

So if pvp is always laggy, 50% of potential game buyers will see pvp footage and use this as a valid reason not to purchase the game. The game successfully losses out on potential sales because of lag.

This is what i mean when i say lag is destroying this games current and future image.

oxygen_thief · November 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

So if pvp is always laggy, 50% of potential game buyers will see pvp footage and use this as a valid reason not to purchase the game. The game successfully losses out on potential sales because of lag.

i think potential game buyers are fans of the elder scrolls single players games. they buy it to play as a single player game and they dont care about pvp state

Tandor · November 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Zenimax again just beeding players because of poor game performance.

The impact that this has on the image of this game is devastating.

i think they are ignoring this problems because they dont lose too much. the major part of players doesnt do trials or pvp thus they are indifferent to lags or balance issues. the major part of whiners here are still paying them for the bag so why should they care?

I know that a majority of players do not engade in regular high end content. But go to youtube and type in ESO.
Gaurenteed 50% of what you find will be PvP gameplay, even though pvp players only make up 10% of the player pop. So even if a majority of players do not PvP, the content produced by pvp is just as popular as pve content.

So if pvp is always laggy, 50% of potential game buyers will see pvp footage and use this as a valid reason not to purchase the game. The game successfully losses out on potential sales because of lag.

This is what i mean when i say lag is destroying this games current and future image.

Prospective PvE players don't base their purchasing decision on watching PvP players on Youtube. In any event, most experienced MMO players know not to look at how a game performs when zerging in PvP and expect it to be the same in solo PvE which is what most new players will be interested in.

The_Brosteen · November 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Zenimax again just beeding players because of poor game performance.

The impact that this has on the image of this game is devastating.

i think they are ignoring this problems because they dont lose too much. the major part of players doesnt do trials or pvp thus they are indifferent to lags or balance issues. the major part of whiners here are still paying them for the bag so why should they care?

I know that a majority of players do not engade in regular high end content. But go to youtube and type in ESO.
Gaurenteed 50% of what you find will be PvP gameplay, even though pvp players only make up 10% of the player pop. So even if a majority of players do not PvP, the content produced by pvp is just as popular as pve content.

So if pvp is always laggy, 50% of potential game buyers will see pvp footage and use this as a valid reason not to purchase the game. The game successfully losses out on potential sales because of lag.

This is what i mean when i say lag is destroying this games current and future image.

Zos is a company. Everything they do is to try and benefit their bottom line at the end up the day. Things like fixing performance are expensive, and apparently don't generate the revenue they think it should.

Things like designing new costumes are possibley less expensive, and an exact dollar amount of revenue earned can be linked to that expense.

Loosing potential sales of the actual game doesnt mean much at this point. Most of their revenue comes from the crown store. Perhaps during free to play weekends they notice crown store sales increase. Sometimes I wish zos was a public company so I could see if my assumptions are correct at all.

That being said, having a customer stick around long enough to buy from the crown store is an important factor that seems to be overlooked. Or maybe it isn't, and the data actually shows that people who complain about the games problems the most dont actually account for a large percentage of revenue earned.

The point is the only real way to initiate change is to provide a clear link from performance and balance issues to lost revenue. That will have investors asking questions and force the devs to do things differently. So the answer is simple boycott the crown store.

Otherwise in coming updates we will get worse performance, but really neat hats.

ImmortalCX · November 2018

What other MMOs have PVP of the same size/scale and graphic detail as ESO?

Maybe the solution is to limit populations.

twev · November 2018

Tandor wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

snip stuff in OP.

So if pvp is always laggy, 50% of potential game buyers will see pvp footage and use this as a valid reason not to purchase the game. The game successfully losses out on potential sales because of lag.

This is what i mean when i say lag is destroying this games current and future image.

Prospective PvE players don't base their purchasing decision on watching PvP players on Youtube. In any event, most experienced MMO players know not to look at how a game performs when zerging in PvP and expect it to be the same in solo PvE which is what most new players will be interested in.

Wouldn't it be a better decision to also keep many players as they move beyond PvE, and give them stable PvP to move into, rather than let them move on to other games because there's no good reason to stay here?

idk · November 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Seriously. Every time some trivial event strolls by the game becomes borderline unplayable just because a mere 50+ people stand by a World Boss (and only top 12 get loot. smartest decision ever by the way! Especially during an event. Much logic, much awestruck) or because of double loot in a zone and more people are lag-running around desperately fighting for that one node because they aren't client-side.

I stopped here because of confusion. Is it the double drop worthless gear we are interested in or double soul gems we want to add to our hundreds, if not thousands, we already have.

The real value in the double drops is motif from the quest turn in and to a lesser degree the style material for our personal inventory.

I could see if you were complaining about having to find 6 of a harvest node when many are going after the same nodes for gathering, but boss loot complain seems as small as the value of that boss loot.