ESO is not designed to be a "forever" MMO.

ImmortalCX · November 2018

Its free ESO+ week, there is a special CWC event, and I can barely log on. I'm doing the daily CWC for tickets.. but after the double XP event my motivation has tanked.

Then it dawned on me that ESO is not like other MMOs. Its not designed to be a "forever" MMO. There is very little vertical progression, there is not much feeling of accomplishment once you have "seen" everything.

They have it designed so that all the old content is still relevant to someone new to the game, unlike WOW where old content/dungeons/trials are irrelevant.

Someone buys a copy of the game, they enjoy it for 50-500 hours, then they quit. Because there is no sub, they can "poke in" every once in a while, do writs or train riding on alts, but endgame is basically PVP or housing.

When I was playing WOW, there was this sense that the guild was really accomplishing something by learning the raids and getting top level gear. Drops were rare and hard-earned. In ESO its just horizontal progression. You don't really need any exclusive gear to do the hardest raids. PVP gear can pretty much be crafted or purchased instantly.

Its designed to make it LOOK like there is activity (no sub anyone can log on and do stuff), but the thin releases and lack of bug fixes makes you realize they are running it with a skeleton crew.

I am "quitting". What that means is that I'm pretty sure I will forget to log on and then realize three months from now I haven't played. I just can't do it anymore.

Alex_Lex · November 2018

[snip]

Actually since Fallout 76 started very bad (3.1 at Metacritic right now) ESO is the ony life-service game for Bethesda.

So ESO would stay alive way longer than you can expect.

[Edit for bait.]

Artim_X · November 2018

To each their own.

valkyrie93 · November 2018

not quitting and eso is the only mmo i’ve ever played (and played INTENSELY at that) but i know what you mean tbh. really starting to feel it now

Runs · November 2018

Everybody needs a little time away, I heard her say....

Rungar · November 2018

the horizontal progression and myriad of build choices is what brings people to the game. Unfortunately they have nefarious systems like the light weaving/burst, undoable dlcs and crap guild/trade systems working to drive those same players away.

this game has a very high turnover but its not because its not a great game, wonderful art or has a lack of content. Just a couple of crap sub systems is all it takes unfortunately.

the same way that if you find the movement controls uncomfortable for any reason you wont play a game no matter how good it is.

Perwulf · November 2018

ESO have console versions. Having exclusive hard-earned content or even hardcore mode will backlash because of casual console players and trust me, they're plenty.

Vuron · November 2018

It was originally designed to be a forever game, but the end game was supposed to be AvAvA. PvE wasn't the original plan and you can tell.

RogueShark · November 2018

I've played WoW and FFXIV and I prefer ESO immensely. While I tend to like WoW raiding more, I get burned out on that super fast due to the 2-4 nights a week spent in 3-4 hour long mythic progression raids. Yeah, you felt accomplishment... until a new raid came out and all your gear became completely OBSOLETE.

Eso suffers from nerf hammers that make new gear and such better or the new 'meta', but other MMOs are far from immune to sweeping changes or nerfs or complete class overhauls (RIP feral druid catbear tanking), but I like that the gear I get... stays relevant. It may not be 'BiS' forever, but I can bank it and have it and still make use of it... or other gear that I've farmed and have banked becomes useful.

I prefer the horizontal progression. It doesn't feel like my work and efforts and pointless or useless come the next raid or expansion.

VaranisArano · November 2018

ESO is currently designed to keep you playing as long as possible through grinding and meta-chasing.

These days I pretty much just do the content that I have fun with.

RebornV3x · November 2018

ESO is petty much a casual game to come back every 3 months or so to look at the new zone do the quest lines and leave for another 3 months if your looking for end game stuff your playing the wrong game

ImmortalCX · November 2018

The other "problem" I realized with the game is the prevalence and importance of the "DPS meter".

The reason the dps meter is so important is because super high dps isn't really needed to complete the content. Using a dps meter is the only way players can gain a sense of accomplishment, that they "deserve" their spot in a raid.

Think about that. If the game had better progression, people would gauge their accomplishment on actual accomplishments; the things they were able to do. Instead people use the DPS meter as a way to gauge how effective they have become.

Every MMO has it's own burnout experience. In WOW there was the initial pain (ripping bandaid off) at the beginning of an expansion, when all the gear was made obsolete. Burnout in WOW was realizing you couldn't stay up til 3am four nights a week to raid and hold a job. WOW burnout is stress related.

Burnout in ESO is kinda like Alzheimers; you forget why you even enjoyed the game and all of a sudden it looks like a shallow and meaningless experience. ESO burnout is ennui.

GreenhaloX · November 2018

No game is.. but it doesn't mean a game, such as ESO, has to be all jacked up over and over again, year after year, following each and every DLC, Chapter and reoccurring anniversary events for weeks and months on end. Goodness gracious, Lord Almighty..

rexagamemnon · November 2018

Ive thought about this alot to, and it scares me because i love eso and i dont want it to be irrelevant in a few years

redspecter23 · November 2018

A lack of vertical progression and obsoletion of old content is described as a negative by the OP. I'd argue that for many, it's a positive and a reason to stay with the game. That view will of course vary from person to person.

Reverb · November 2018

There's still plenty of vertical progression for most players. The percentage of people who've completed vet HM in all trials is very, very low.

Abigail · November 2018

Every few weeks I get a little burned out, will let a few days pass where I only log in for enlightenment and the daily carrot, then I get the bug again. I'm slowly, but surely working 11 alts through all the PvE content, and moving ever closer to the current CP cap. It keeps me interested enough to keep going.

Rontabs77 · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Its free ESO+ week, there is a special CWC event, and I can barely log on. I'm doing the daily CWC for tickets.. but after the double XP event my motivation has tanked.

Then it dawned on me that ESO is not like other MMOs. Its not designed to be a "forever" MMO. There is very little vertical progression, there is not much feeling of accomplishment once you have "seen" everything.

They have it designed so that all the old content is still relevant to someone new to the game, unlike WOW where old content/dungeons/trials are irrelevant.

Someone buys a copy of the game, they enjoy it for 50-500 hours, then they quit. Because there is no sub, they can "poke in" every once in a while, do writs or train riding on alts, but endgame is basically PVP or housing.

When I was playing WOW, there was this sense that the guild was really accomplishing something by learning the raids and getting top level gear. Drops were rare and hard-earned. In ESO its just horizontal progression. You don't really need any exclusive gear to do the hardest raids. PVP gear can pretty much be crafted or purchased instantly.

Its designed to make it LOOK like there is activity (no sub anyone can log on and do stuff), but the thin releases and lack of bug fixes makes you realize they are running it with a skeleton crew.

I am "quitting". What that means is that I'm pretty sure I will forget to log on and then realize three months from now I haven't played. I just can't do it anymore.

Why quit? There is always rest. I do agree with the lack of bug fixes though, as I am getting constantly logged out when in the middle of a BG match..

SupremeRissole · November 2018

even If they brought out no content for the next year and instead made the game smoother, less lag etc I could quite happily continue my 3 raids a week, BGs other nights with the odd dungeon here or there for the next year. But sady that doesnt increase crown sales so it'll never happen.

Elsonso · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Then it dawned on me that ESO is not like other MMOs. Its not designed to be a "forever" MMO. There is very little vertical progression, there is not much feeling of accomplishment once you have "seen" everything.

They have it designed so that all the old content is still relevant to someone new to the game, unlike WOW where old content/dungeons/trials are irrelevant.

Someone buys a copy of the game, they enjoy it for 50-500 hours, then they quit. Because there is no sub, they can "poke in" every once in a while, do writs or train riding on alts, but endgame is basically PVP or housing.

When I was playing WOW, there was this sense that the guild was really accomplishing something by learning the raids and getting top level gear. Drops were rare and hard-earned. In ESO its just horizontal progression. You don't really need any exclusive gear to do the hardest raids. PVP gear can pretty much be crafted or purchased instantly.

Its designed to make it LOOK like there is activity (no sub anyone can log on and do stuff), but the thin releases and lack of bug fixes makes you realize they are running it with a skeleton crew.

I think you are wrong in that ESO is more of a "forever" game than an MMO where the player experience is vertical.

In a vertical progression game, when the studio stops developing the game, the game is dead. People depend upon that next expansion in order to move forward. The studio has to continually feed the meter. If Blizz said "no more expansions for WoW" today, the game would be a ghost town inside of a month. There would be no point in established players sticking around since the game isn't going anywhere.

ESO might get boring for established players, but when ZOS decides to stop rolling out DLC and Chapters, there will still be hundreds of hours of stuff to do in the game. Players do not depend on ZOS to add new stuff in order to progress. They depend on ZOS adding new stuff only to keep it from getting boring. New and existing players are still able to do all the content at the same level they were, and they don't out level it. All ZOS has to do is keep the servers running for as long as people are willing to send them money. This game is practically designed to be all but abandoned, and still bring in revenue.

Danikat · November 2018

Everything I hear about WoW convinces me I made the right decision by never getting into it, which I guess is a good thing even if I originally thought a Warcraft RPG would be the best thing ever.

I don't want a game which takes 'forever' especially if that's forever spent grinding the same dungeon or raid so you're ready for when the next one comes out and makes everything you've done so far obsolete. I much prefer a game where gear can be a secondary consideration and I can focus on the stories, achievements and areas of the map I want to play.

And that's why it's good that there's several MMOs to choose from - I've got one I like, you've got one you like. We don't need to aim for an impossible situation where everyone likes every MMO.

BNOC · November 2018

It should come as no surprise that end game is dead and there's no progression, considering they continually cater to casuals.

Such a shame that they cater to the entitled crowds who believe just because something exists, they should be able to do it.

Oliviander · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Its free ESO+ week, there is a special CWC event, and I can barely log on. I'm doing the daily CWC for tickets.. but after the double XP event my motivation has tanked.

Then it dawned on me that ESO is not like other MMOs. Its not designed to be a "forever" MMO. There is very little vertical progression, there is not much feeling of accomplishment once you have "seen" everything.

They have it designed so that all the old content is still relevant to someone new to the game, unlike WOW where old content/dungeons/trials are irrelevant.

I played WoW in the beginning and maybe I would have played it until today.
But the first time they raised the level cap every accomplishment I made by then was pretty useless
so I lost Interest and quit the game.

TESO I might play forever as long as there is no vertical development and the best Idea in my opinion would be to abolish Item binding completely or at least "Bind on pickup".

Everybody should be able to buy any gear - for more distinguished players there are leaderboards.

FrancisCrawford · November 2018

I've played ESO since beta.

oxygen_thief · November 2018

everlasting games are for forever young. adult people have other things to do.

Urvoth · November 2018

I feel pretty much the opposite. There is so much to do in ESO and since you're not forced to get new gear every patch, you can pretty much do whatever you want most of the time. Every day you could be doing something completely different and unrelated without feeling the pressure of getting behind progression wise. If you're mainly a PvE player, try and get into PvP and vise versa. ESO's main problems are performance, balancing, and somewhat CP, not that it's a horizontal progression.

BleedMe_AnOcean · November 2018

As opposed to WoW? Bro, do you even WoW at all?

Yes, it has vertical progression... but then what? You've finished the latest raid, you've done the few relevant dungeons on the highest key, and then... you're done. There are a couple of dailies, but why? Why would you even bother if you've maxed yourself out?

ESO is different. No matter where you go and what you do, there's a challenge somewhere. Content doesn't become irrelevant. Sick of Alinor dailies? Go to Murkmire. Sick of Murkmire? Go to Orsinium. You have that option with ESO. In WoW, there's Zero point in returning to any of the previous zones. All the gear you busted your ass for and literally fought with guildies over because it's THAT rare? Irrelevant. I prefer the system where you can grind out the mats or gold to make your own gear rather than praying to the unforgiving RNGeezus to FINALLY get your drop.... a week before the next ex-pac comes out, of course.

And if your WoW guilds didn't have people measuring epeens with DPS parses, you must have been playing in an alternate Azeroth. It is FAR more elitist in the WoW universe than it will ever be here.

dpencil1 · November 2018

WoW and other similar games are like Public School. ESO is like Montessori school.

Players who are able to choose for themselves from a variety of options of activity will thrive in ESO, while those who feel they need to be forced down a particular content path will feel lost and aimless.

AcadianPaladin · November 2018

I don't know anything about this progression OP speaks of. I learned long ago not to feel obliged to do content I'm not interested in. I'm not interested in PvP, Trials, DLC dungeons, DB, Thieves Guild. Sounds like a long list but, after two years as the only game I currently play, I see no end in sight as my character simply lives her life in Tamriel. I find the mass and scale completely captivating. I confess to being more motivated in gaming by the journey than the destination.

ImmortalCX · November 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Then it dawned on me that ESO is not like other MMOs. Its not designed to be a "forever" MMO. There is very little vertical progression, there is not much feeling of accomplishment once you have "seen" everything.

They have it designed so that all the old content is still relevant to someone new to the game, unlike WOW where old content/dungeons/trials are irrelevant.

Someone buys a copy of the game, they enjoy it for 50-500 hours, then they quit. Because there is no sub, they can "poke in" every once in a while, do writs or train riding on alts, but endgame is basically PVP or housing.

When I was playing WOW, there was this sense that the guild was really accomplishing something by learning the raids and getting top level gear. Drops were rare and hard-earned. In ESO its just horizontal progression. You don't really need any exclusive gear to do the hardest raids. PVP gear can pretty much be crafted or purchased instantly.

Its designed to make it LOOK like there is activity (no sub anyone can log on and do stuff), but the thin releases and lack of bug fixes makes you realize they are running it with a skeleton crew.

I think you are wrong in that ESO is more of a "forever" game than an MMO where the player experience is vertical.

In a vertical progression game, when the studio stops developing the game, the game is dead. People depend upon that next expansion in order to move forward. The studio has to continually feed the meter. If Blizz said "no more expansions for WoW" today, the game would be a ghost town inside of a month. There would be no point in established players sticking around since the game isn't going anywhere.

ESO might get boring for established players, but when ZOS decides to stop rolling out DLC and Chapters, there will still be hundreds of hours of stuff to do in the game. Players do not depend on ZOS to add new stuff in order to progress. They depend on ZOS adding new stuff only to keep it from getting boring. New and existing players are still able to do all the content at the same level they were, and they don't out level it. All ZOS has to do is keep the servers running for as long as people are willing to send them money. This game is practically designed to be all but abandoned, and still bring in revenue.

You are saying the same thing that occured to me, but in a different way.

Exactly, the game is designed to be abandoned and taken up by new players. But for any given player, its not as long-term an experience. Because old content is still "relevant", new players coming to the game can still enjoy it. There aren't seven layers of vertical (ghost town) progression to work through before they catch the endgame players. But when you get to the end, the experience isn't as deep or demanding. You put in less, but you don't get back as much.

zaria · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Its free ESO+ week, there is a special CWC event, and I can barely log on. I'm doing the daily CWC for tickets.. but after the double XP event my motivation has tanked.

Then it dawned on me that ESO is not like other MMOs. Its not designed to be a "forever" MMO. There is very little vertical progression, there is not much feeling of accomplishment once you have "seen" everything.

They have it designed so that all the old content is still relevant to someone new to the game, unlike WOW where old content/dungeons/trials are irrelevant.

Someone buys a copy of the game, they enjoy it for 50-500 hours, then they quit. Because there is no sub, they can "poke in" every once in a while, do writs or train riding on alts, but endgame is basically PVP or housing.

When I was playing WOW, there was this sense that the guild was really accomplishing something by learning the raids and getting top level gear. Drops were rare and hard-earned. In ESO its just horizontal progression. You don't really need any exclusive gear to do the hardest raids. PVP gear can pretty much be crafted or purchased instantly.

Its designed to make it LOOK like there is activity (no sub anyone can log on and do stuff), but the thin releases and lack of bug fixes makes you realize they are running it with a skeleton crew.

I am "quitting". What that means is that I'm pretty sure I will forget to log on and then realize three months from now I haven't played. I just can't do it anymore.

I don't get your point. No you will not get new zones and new level caps regularly.
You will get new and harder stuff have you HM all the DLC dungeons?
And all the old stuff is still relevant, I leveled up an tank and need more skill points so farm them but get distracted by quests

Note that since last expansion WOW has moved in ESO direction. Instancing and scaled zones.
Remember then I last played wow after catalyzm, level 85 solo conenent was in an smaller than CWC zoen with some daily quests, this was borng and also sucked if you was the low pop faction on an pvp server.
Yes you could team up but this was stuff you did while queued for dungeons.

ESO content is also more expensive to make than WOW content because of higher quality and voice actors.

Also dungeons are not equal, vCoA1, vBC1 and vFG1 is easier than most normal dlc, pugging the vet dlc is interesting

In short ESO is doing the right stuff and WOW the clanmother of current MMO becomes more like ESO: