Skyshards account bound

Edziu · November 2018

Tandor wrote: »

Moreover, like any successful MMO can afford to do, its ongoing development will be centred around those who are playing the game or might be thinking of trying it, not those who have already quit it.

so in your opinion loyal player subscribing nonstop since beta who finally quit mainly because of balanse and bad performance with every next patch should still be ignored even when for these players this game was lovely and they still luring at this if this finally get some fixes and if its worth to go back...in your opinion players like these once their quitted with hope to return they at all should be ignored for future yes?

therift · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Moreover, like any successful MMO can afford to do, its ongoing development will be centred around those who are playing the game or might be thinking of trying it, not those who have already quit it.

so in your opinion loyal player subscribing nonstop since beta who finally quit mainly because of balanse and bad performance with every next patch should still be ignored even when for these players this game was lovely and they still luring at this if this finally get some fixes and if its worth to go back...in your opinion players like these once their quitted with hope to return they at all should be ignored for future yes?

In essence, yes.

Developing new content for current customers has been far more effective in bringing back defected customers than anything else. Morrowind and Summerset Chapter launches are well-documented examples of this effect.

Your post, however, focuses on the segment of customers who defected over balance and performance issues. These customers must be ignored if the reason is balance, because the Publisher would have to return to a state of the game they decided to change in order to lure these customers back. It would be far better to acquire replacement customers.

If the defected customers quit over performance, then these customers must be ignored until those performance issues are repaired. It's pointless to spend money trying to lure defected customers back only to watch them quit again, permanently, because the issues that caused them to quit in the first place persist. They'll never trust you again.

BringerOfOmens · November 2018

Takes away the thrill of discovery?

I discovered them on my first toon. I would support them being account wide or at least optionally account-wide. For those players who dont want them account-wide they should certainly have the ability, at player creation, to make a stand-alone toon for reasons of RP or just personal preference.

Edziu · November 2018

therift wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Moreover, like any successful MMO can afford to do, its ongoing development will be centred around those who are playing the game or might be thinking of trying it, not those who have already quit it.

so in your opinion loyal player subscribing nonstop since beta who finally quit mainly because of balanse and bad performance with every next patch should still be ignored even when for these players this game was lovely and they still luring at this if this finally get some fixes and if its worth to go back...in your opinion players like these once their quitted with hope to return they at all should be ignored for future yes?

In essence, yes.

Developing new content for current customers has been far more effective in bringing back defected customers than anything else. Morrowind and Summerset Chapter launches are well-documented examples of this effect.

Your post, however, focuses on the segment of customers who defected over balance and performance issues. These customers must be ignored if the reason is balance, because the Publisher would have to return to a state of the game they decided to change in order to lure these customers back. It would be far better to acquire replacement customers.

If the defected customers quit over performance, then these customers must be ignored until those performance issues are repaired. It's pointless to spend money trying to lure defected customers back only to watch them quit again, permanently, because the issues that caused them to quit in the first place persist. They'll never trust you again.

defected customers you say? what if I say those customers are not defected (as they was loyal subscribers) and ZOS let them to go because ZOS ignored 99% of players feedback how even in easy way would be to fix main problem and here ZOS put their most effor for casual players who even have no reason to subscribe as most of them will not play that much in game than loyar subscriber for years.

and so you say its more efficient for developer to just ignore old loyal players and put everything fur just casuals who will play just 1 month every new patch because of jsut new dlc release yes? while with it just plunge their own "balance" system which lured many players before (with it those loyal)

this is your opinion? as I understood with this way

ah and at the end

They'll never trust you again.

why? because I quitted because of their fault in menage their own game to which I have hope to return if it could get fixed to be again loyal player

Im defected player to them because I quitted this game because of not my "fetish" I will say to old good balance but because devs fault as bad menaging game this is making players defected, not devs? nice logic

Tandor · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Moreover, like any successful MMO can afford to do, its ongoing development will be centred around those who are playing the game or might be thinking of trying it, not those who have already quit it.

so in your opinion loyal player subscribing nonstop since beta who finally quit mainly because of balanse and bad performance with every next patch should still be ignored even when for these players this game was lovely and they still luring at this if this finally get some fixes and if its worth to go back...in your opinion players like these once their quitted with hope to return they at all should be ignored for future yes?

Where their reasons for leaving were related to the format of the game, or its evolution, then yes, their lobbying for changes contrary to the developers' own vision for the game as accepted by the overwhelming majority of players should be ignored. It's only a small minority of players who quit over balance issues - or who say they will quit although many of them do so every time there's a major update which raises the question of whether they actually follow through on their forum protestations (you claim to have quit twice already and yet are still interested enough in this game to have posted more than 50 times on this thread alone).

There is plenty of evidence (SWG:NGE anyone?) to suggest that where developers change fundamental parts of a game in order either to bring back old players or bring in new ones, all they actually end up doing is driving away their loyal players. Developers only ever consider doing that where the game is already failing, which ESO very clearly is not doing.

Where their reasons were related to performance issues then naturally it should be the aim of any developers to overcome such issues and thereby win back those former players.

Edziu · November 2018

Tandor wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Moreover, like any successful MMO can afford to do, its ongoing development will be centred around those who are playing the game or might be thinking of trying it, not those who have already quit it.

so in your opinion loyal player subscribing nonstop since beta who finally quit mainly because of balanse and bad performance with every next patch should still be ignored even when for these players this game was lovely and they still luring at this if this finally get some fixes and if its worth to go back...in your opinion players like these once their quitted with hope to return they at all should be ignored for future yes?

Where their reasons for leaving were related to the format of the game, or its evolution, then yes, their lobbying for changes contrary to the developers' own vision for the game as accepted by the overwhelming majority of players should be ignored. It's only a small minority of players who quit over balance issues - or who say they will quit although many of them do so every time there's a major update which raises the question of whether they actually follow through on their forum protestations (you claim to have quit twice already and yet are still interested enough in this game to have posted more than 50 times on this thread alone).

There is plenty of evidence (SWG:NGE anyone?) to suggest that where developers change fundamental parts of a game in order either to bring back old players or bring in new ones, all they actually end up doing is driving away their loyal players. Developers only ever consider doing that where the game is already failing, which ESO very clearly is not doing.

Where their reasons were related to performance issues then naturally it should be the aim of any developers to overcome such issues and thereby win back those former players.

ok so I will add something else from me
I could go to play ESO again for more than jsut 2-3 days in week but as I see how ZOS is doing mainly their balance whiel ignoring 99% of players feedback where it ending nonstop qq while pts and after patch release I will not pay any sub for sure

as I jsut like this as TES series game + its online so I dont need to play alone I really like this game and hope this will be again better but devs are doing horrible and this is reason why I will not pay any more to them even if I will go to play this game again daily, I will ofc struggle without craft bag but there are always options to get rid of this problem

EDIT: at all to you maybe remeber how long we was witing to fix templar class gap closer? if you have played that early btw
atlest good 1 if nto 2 years this skill was unusable and in pvp was death sentence if you used it because of stuck in animation, after this time they "fixed" it as you can cacnel animation of this in which you was stuck but still eating resourcer and here we neede to wait next patches until fully it was fixed - that is gow ZOS i doing their game n combat, in balance

therift · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Moreover, like any successful MMO can afford to do, its ongoing development will be centred around those who are playing the game or might be thinking of trying it, not those who have already quit it.

so in your opinion loyal player subscribing nonstop since beta who finally quit mainly because of balanse and bad performance with every next patch should still be ignored even when for these players this game was lovely and they still luring at this if this finally get some fixes and if its worth to go back...in your opinion players like these once their quitted with hope to return they at all should be ignored for future yes?

In essence, yes.

Developing new content for current customers has been far more effective in bringing back defected customers than anything else. Morrowind and Summerset Chapter launches are well-documented examples of this effect.

Your post, however, focuses on the segment of customers who defected over balance and performance issues. These customers must be ignored if the reason is balance, because the Publisher would have to return to a state of the game they decided to change in order to lure these customers back. It would be far better to acquire replacement customers.

If the defected customers quit over performance, then these customers must be ignored until those performance issues are repaired. It's pointless to spend money trying to lure defected customers back only to watch them quit again, permanently, because the issues that caused them to quit in the first place persist. They'll never trust you again.

defected customers you say? what if I say those customers are not defected (as they was loyal subscribers) and ZOS let them to go because ZOS ignored 99% of players feedback how even in easy way would be to fix main problem and here ZOS put their most effor for casual players who even have no reason to subscribe as most of them will not play that much in game than loyar subscriber for years.

and so you say its more efficient for developer to just ignore old loyal players and put everything fur just casuals who will play just 1 month every new patch because of jsut new dlc release yes? while with it just plunge their own "balance" system which lured many players before (with it those loyal)

this is your opinion? as I understood with this way

ah and at the end

They'll never trust you again.

why? because I quitted because of their fault in menage their own game to which I have hope to return if it could get fixed to be again loyal player

Im defected player to them because I quitted this game because of not my "fetish" I will say to old good balance but because devs fault as bad menaging game this is making players defected, not devs? nice logic

I read an earlier post in which you said English is not your native language. I applaud you for participating in this discussion despite the extra challenge.

I think you misunderstood my use of 'defected' customers. 'Defected customer' is a technical term describing customers who have stopped buying from one seller in favor of buying from a competing company. In other words, they quit ESO and are playing another game instead.

'Defected' is very similar to 'Defective' in spelling and pronunciation, but they are very different in meaning. I think you may have understood 'defected' to mean 'defective'.

'Defected' customers are assumed to be rational buyers and not 'defective' by any measure.

To address your other points, there is a large difference between creating new content for existing customers and to attract new or defected customers versus fixing performance issues or reverting balance changes to a previous Update of the game.

1) Existing customers are kept by providing new content for them to enjoy

2) Customers who defected for reasons other than performance can be lured back at very little cost if the new content is attractive to them e.g. returning to the setting of TES3 or introducing a brand new setting such as Summerset

3) Customers who defected over performance issues cannot be lured back until the performance issues are corrected

4) Customers who defected over balance issues probably cannot be lured back.

Customer categories (1) and (2) make money. Customer category (3) must be ignored until fixed. Customer category (4) can be ignored permanently.

How has this thread departed so significantly from the idea of making skyshards account-bound?

Edziu · November 2018

@therift ah ye, now I translated this and you are right about this word which missunderstood this, sorry from my side to not check it before in translator for sure

and about point customers defected because of balance - well in eso it is easy example atlest in older patches but ofc atleast in some even in this patch.

as when ZOS want to make sayed combat more balanced into newer player to have chance in fight with older veterans...well there is no point to doing it what ZOS wanted nonstop after year or 2 years this game

veteran player will be always vveteran and ZOS started introducing "proc" sets to make newer players easier fights and make lesser gap between someone new and old in game and here was an problem

ZOS even didnt think what if this veteran player will use tools crated for newer player? thish just done bigger gap between them because of thic newer player even wasnt able to see what killed him that gast while half of damage was from jsut items isntead of character skills

over time ZOS nerfed these sets and that was great times again but for this patch I think you have seen threads about enchant proc meta, new cancer exploited by these veterans more efficient and more deadly than even everage player - thats why many people even if going for jsut vigor and caltrops are getting sick of this pvp forever

and another thing - they touching many things about which players even didnt asked to be nerfed nor buffed because it was fine and this wasnt creating unbalance - so this maked unbalance even bigger isntead of fixed in a bit

and now to this topic with skyshards...well will now shortly tell for someone like me and ofc not only me just additional pleasure in this game, this could help to have more enjoyable time playing it this game in conted which we not only like better than collecting shard but content which we love to play and to which w want to create different alts to try different gampley in this but on way to this we are stuck in something like these for us boring shards instead to have more happy time while playing this

ahh and forgot to add something to this defected...while we are defecting this is just showing to devs they are not doing really fine job, if we will stay still in it and pay them for it they will not see anything bad, they will still go like they are going without see any even minimal signs as they are not doing fine nonstop

and unfortunately to let this work just players threatening they will quit they are also another problem as they only threathenng they will quit while still playing, a bit ironic becasue players are making themselves masochists like they like to struggle with bad menaging game

Shantu · November 2018

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

heaven13 · November 2018

Considering that the argument has been "if you don't agree with me, then you're [pick any of the following: dumb, ignorant, salty, want others to suffer because you did, etc] and must be ignored", it seems fairly reasonable to conclude that it was a similar argument for leaving the game. Rather than coming to the conclusion that the things you dislike outweigh the things you like and finding something better suited, you've decided ZoS should change their game to appease you and by not doing so, they're ignoring "99% of the playerbase" and mismanaging their game.

ZoS sometimes gets things wrong and are absolutely tone deaf when it comes to the crown store but they cannot make sweeping game changes that will affect their entire player base to entice back players that want to zoom 14 more characters through a dolmen grind or get carried through Skyreach, ignore the majority of quests, and then sit in PvP.

Edziu · November 2018

heaven13 wrote: »

ZoS sometimes gets things wrong and are absolutely tone deaf when it comes to the crown store but they cannot make sweeping game changes that will affect their entire player base to entice back players that want to zoom 14 more characters through a dolmen grind or get carried through Skyreach, ignore the majority of quests, and then sit in PvP.

sometimes you say? wrong things what they are doing they are in ever every patch, just go and look for not only comba/pvp cections but even pts sections
sorry for offtopic but I couldnt leave this comment alone and I can agree about bad things via crownstore because it have equal impact for pvp and pve which is getting ignored just to improve their crown store

therift · November 2018

@Edziu

I agree with you on the introduction of proc sets, perhaps intended to help new players compete with veteran players, but actually giving veteran players too much power. I gave you an 'Insightful', because I understand what you mean.

I agree with your other points also... except on the issue of making Skyshards account-bound. I disagree. There was another thread on that subject in which I made lengthy posts supporting my opinion, including references to basic game theory and game design. I'm not going to repeat those arguments here. The original poster in that thread became so enraged by my relentless counter-arguments that he resorted to name-calling and threats. The thread was locked as a result. It may have been deleted. I do not wish to repeat the experience.

It is enough that we disagree and that we have reasons for our opinions.

Edziu · November 2018

therift wrote: »

@Edziu

I agree with you on the introduction of proc sets, perhaps intended to help new players compete with veteran players, but actually giving veteran players too much power. I gave you an 'Insightful', because I understand what you mean.

I agree with your other points also... except on the issue of making Skyshards account-bound. I disagree. There was another thread on that subject in which I made lengthy posts supporting my opinion, including references to basic game theory and game design. I'm not going to repeat those arguments here. The original poster in that thread became so enraged by my relentless counter-arguments that he resorted to name-calling and threats. The thread was locked as a result. It may have been deleted. I do not wish to repeat the experience.

It is enough that we disagree and that we have reasons for our opinions.

yeah like we have different and opposite opinions here always could be other option for compromise if not with this then

maybe if rethinking about everything possible it could be fount something more on neutral side in compare to these shards as we see as for some people its getting for to much aggressive point
about what here some people was suggesting to make it as an option to toggle even while creating character to closer into compromise with wich both sides wouldnt be atleast fully angry eachother

alanmatillab16_ESO · November 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

The point that many have tried to make but others have ignored is that you do not have to collect all skill points on every character. They seem to think that if you need to collect one shard you need to collect all of them.

Tandor · November 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

In the context of this thread, I'm sure that's a fair comment in respect of those who consider collecting skyshards in the course of playing the game to fall into that category. There is no evidence, however, that most players consider them to do so.

AlnilamE · November 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

sulima · November 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.

AlnilamE · November 2018

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.

Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?

sulima · November 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.

Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?

Nope, my previous grind is my currency.

AlnilamE · November 2018

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.

Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?

Nope, my previous grind is my currency.

And should that apply to skyshards only or to every thing else that is also a "previous grind"? And why?

sulima · November 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.

Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?

Nope, my previous grind is my currency.

And should that apply to skyshards only or to every thing else that is also a "previous grind"? And why?

this is thread is about account bound skyshards nothing more, unless I read the OP incorrectly, did I?

therift · November 2018

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.

Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?

Nope, my previous grind is my currency.

And should that apply to skyshards only or to every thing else that is also a "previous grind"? And why?

this is thread is about account bound skyshards nothing more, unless I read the OP incorrectly, did I?

You are correct.

However, making Skyshards account-bound is a slippery slope.

The argument supporting this notion is based on
(1) Acquiring Skyshards again on subsequently created characters is tedious and time-consuming

(2) There is no real harm to balance whether the skill points are given to subsequently created characters or not, since players are already re-acquiring them again normally.

If Zenimax concedes to this argument, then it is a short step to demand that making other benefits account-wide to avoid 'tedious grind' should also be granted. The arguments for those demands would run like this:

"Maelstrom Inferno staves should be account-wide. If I got the staff once, why do I have grind Maelstrom for a second one? There's no harm because I switch my staff between my characters. I just want to have extra copies for every toon so I don't have to waste game time swapping!"

or

"Grinding for extra copies of Dungeon/Trials gear is tedious and a waste of my game time. I think BoE sets should be researchable so my crafter can make all the extra copies I need!"

The two requests above are preposterous. Nevertheless, there are numerous threads and posts in which players request exactly that to avoid grind, improve quality of life, save limited game time, blah, blah, blah. In other words, to create new characters ready for end-game with BiS gear...with as little gameplay as possible to get there.

Now, before you prep your counter argument that you just want the free skill points and draw the line on all the other requests to bypass gameplay...

Everyone in this thread who said 'No' to free skill points has drawn the line there. If you want to create new characters, you have to earn the benefits. Even if earning those benefits is as simple as walking around the map.

Lumenn · November 2018

Well, after 13 pages between the yes and no it just hit me that Zos may decide it would be a GREAT idea to please everyone(bored same old grind people vs each character discovering the skyshards) wipe all skyshard related skills (cant have anyone having a advantage over newbies now) and code skyshards in random places instead of the same locations in each zone. Wouldn't that be....fun?

therift · November 2018

Lumenn wrote: »

Well, after 13 pages between the yes and no it just hit me that Zos may decide it would be a GREAT idea to please everyone(bored same old grind people vs each character discovering the skyshards) wipe all skyshard related skills (cant have anyone having a advantage over newbies now) and code skyshards in random places instead of the same locations in each zone. Wouldn't that be....fun?

I suggested early in the thread that skyshards should just be deleted altogether and that the associated skill points be moved to gameplay rewards like all the other skill points.

It's not something I would want to see, but it would put an end to all the angst over having to walk around to pick up skill points.

OneForSorrow · November 2018

What if, once you've unlocked all shards once, you could start getting scrolls that would "activate" shards somewhere in the world that you can give your alts? Then you do still have to be out in the world but maybe that particular grind would be reduced a bit.

Also account-wide mount training... That would help.

gimpdrb14_ESO · November 2018

I said this along time ago that skyshards and skills points only needed to be earned once.

idk · November 2018

I do find this thread entertaining.

For the reasons I stated earlier, Zos will not be doing this anytime soon. No one has offered Zos a compelling reason to really consider what OP suggests.

However, Zos could very well offer such things in the crown store eventually. It would be a sign of desperation, that the game revenue has really gone south.

So there is a chance, but you will pay for it and 5k crowns will look cheap in comparison. So enjoy it when you do eventually get it.

sno_flah_ke · November 2018

kyle.wilson wrote: »

There are 429 skyshards for 143 skill points. So its actually 6,435 skyshards to fully level all 15 chars. That's a tedious and boring grind.

it's tedious and boring to do it on one toon, much less 15.

Seriously, though.. why do you need all of them for EVERY character?

if you get them all for one toon. say your main toon and your main toon does all the crafting chores then really, the only chore your remaining toons need to do for themselves is the provisioning.

so now you dont need to spend all the skill points on alchemy, woodworking, metal working, clothing, jewelry, or enchanting

Also it's not like there are enough skill points in the game to learn every skill and have them all available, so you still have to chose what skill lines you really need.

A most you need two weapon skills and all the class passives plus whatever class skill you intend to use on your two bars along with the couple of guild skills and your armor passives

How many skill points do all the alt toons really need?

If you are trying to get every skill point for every toon for what? It doesnt make sense and you clearly do not have a clear sense of what you are doing if this is the case. If you cant make up your mind, go to alcasthq and see how some are built. you got 10 active skills on those two bars at most.

calm down. you dont need everything all the time at every moment for every toon to play successfully.

sulima · November 2018

therift wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

sulima wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.

You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?

Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.

So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)

So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.

As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.

All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.

So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.

Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.

Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?

Nope, my previous grind is my currency.

And should that apply to skyshards only or to every thing else that is also a "previous grind"? And why?

this is thread is about account bound skyshards nothing more, unless I read the OP incorrectly, did I?

You are correct.

However, making Skyshards account-bound is a slippery slope.

The argument supporting this notion is based on
(1) Acquiring Skyshards again on subsequently created characters is tedious and time-consuming

(2) There is no real harm to balance whether the skill points are given to subsequently created characters or not, since players are already re-acquiring them again normally.

If Zenimax concedes to this argument, then it is a short step to demand that making other benefits account-wide to avoid 'tedious grind' should also be granted. The arguments for those demands would run like this:

"Maelstrom Inferno staves should be account-wide. If I got the staff once, why do I have grind Maelstrom for a second one? There's no harm because I switch my staff between my characters. I just want to have extra copies for every toon so I don't have to waste game time swapping!"

or

"Grinding for extra copies of Dungeon/Trials gear is tedious and a waste of my game time. I think BoE sets should be researchable so my crafter can make all the extra copies I need!"

The two requests above are preposterous. Nevertheless, there are numerous threads and posts in which players request exactly that to avoid grind, improve quality of life, save limited game time, blah, blah, blah. In other words, to create new characters ready for end-game with BiS gear...with as little gameplay as possible to get there.

Now, before you prep your counter argument that you just want the free skill points and draw the line on all the other requests to bypass gameplay...

Everyone in this thread who said 'No' to free skill points has drawn the line there. If you want to create new characters, you have to earn the benefits. Even if earning those benefits is as simple as walking around the map.

Time is a slippery slope, and we all travel on it, hopefully we can all agree on that. A game QOL improvement that saves time for an existing player apparently not...

We all have obligations in real life, and I truly cringe when I read someones comment with 20 + characters telling the yes side of this discussion to "suck it up" in this game if they want to become anything.

Look, having these skill points to invest in new character abilities allows me to explore new skill tree. Like a Dragon Knight that would queue for a random with a freshly earned tanking skill tree. I hear crazy talk of instantaneous pop up queue for tanks, and eh?, maybe I reduce the waiting time for a couple DD in the process, that's a WIN/WIN for everyone.

This game has to stand on it's own, not on it's past, skyshards are a wonderful way to explore content and gain skill points, repeating that process is not good game design.

Hopefully we find ourselves climbing on top of relevant content together one day. Happy trails folks.

TheTombstone · November 2018

Not everyone wants to spend money, and do the same content again and again. That's why games often have expansions. Especially when they have a subscription on their game. I bought the game, and have a subscription. I don't have enough time to just sit here and find all the shards again and again whenever I try a new character. It's fun the first 2 times maybe, but after that it gets tedious and boring.