Why does zenimax hate ice?

Unit117 · November 2018

Honestly why? When we compare ice. To the other elements of fire and lightning it’s constantly be the neglected element.

Class wise it wasn’t a thing till they released wardens. Fire already existed in Dks with sorcerers lightning.

The ice staff is a complete mess since it was changed. Blocking is terrible. The shield is terrible. Moves are oh for crowd control but nothing for helping a ice tanks survivability out of the abilities. Slow taunts stuck on heavy attack that offten cancels randomly or will connect to a wrong target.

Sets.. there’s only 3 5pc sets in the game. None are great. And all are old. winterborn is a pain to get trapped in single player rng Behind one of the worst set grinds in the game with bind on pickup. And icefurnace rewards your ice damage with what? Flame damage. None of the sets promote tanking that ice is built around now.

Monster sets and dungeon. We only have one frost related dungeon. Direfrost. That doesn’t even have a part 2 for me to enjoy!

ice heart is the only ice set. Ice mechanics at all are rare to see on the game. (What’s the point of the Nord passive?)

No year around ice homes. The home that should have been is completely indoors.

My conclusion: not only ice being neglected as a element and theme. When it is being implemented it’s likely being put behind barriers to keep players from really enjoying it. It’s also been given no clear purpose as tank or damage where it doesn’t excel in either route and is frowned upon in both.

Fix:
we need a dlc possibly sea of ghosts? that is completely ice themed. The sets are in some way ice related. To new ice monster sets with ice dungeons. It only seems fair to have one dlc so heavy element themed to make up for the years of neglect.

Other thing is to make combat changes to ice staff and and winterers embrace. To be real dps and/or tank competition to the other classes and weapons in the game in thier roles.

Then of course staying on top of occasionally adding more ice stuff.

While there’s very little of it in this game. It’s my favorite part. And I think most of us what to see it around and bringing diversity into the game.

rabidmyers · November 2018

hell yeah they need to up the ice element in this game, ice is my 2nd fav element next to wind so i'd love it

Aluneth · November 2018

I agree 110%. Before this happens, I want them to revert the change to Arctic Blast.

Unit117 · November 2018

Aluneth wrote: »

I agree 110%. Before this happens, I want them to revert the change to Arctic Blast.

I want them to revert and buff its max heal lol

SilverIce58 · November 2018

Unit117 wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

I agree 110%. Before this happens, I want them to revert the change to Arctic Blast.

I want them to revert and buff its max heal lol

I want them to change it so it does what it did before, but scales off of max magicka instead of max health.

Unit117 · November 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Unit117 wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

I agree 110%. Before this happens, I want them to revert the change to Arctic Blast.

I want them to revert and buff its max heal lol

I want them to change it so it does what it did before, but scales off of max magicka instead of max health.

Oh no. I can’t agree with that. I’m ice staff tank that builds off max health. I sit at 55k xD honestly it should be a base effect and let’s us choose which route to take with it

ck37090 · November 2018

Ice actually has allot of utility and pretty good dps on a Warden... Blockade, revenge, perma locks people down... Add winterborn and Dps from bugs (best dot), shalks... Depending on what type of pvp you are doing they are pretty sweet

Omnia · November 2018

I used to have a warden tank I liked to call the Arctic Plague.
It was so fun to use Gripping Shards and Arctic Blast...*sigh*

ezio45 · November 2018

dont ask for buffs, zos will just nerf you into the ground.

RinaldoGandolphi · November 2018

The Ice Staff is in a great place right now and is integral to many builds.

Not putting points into tri focus allows block to still cost stam, no heavy attack taunt, but gives you a access to beneficial destro passives.

Many MagDK in pvp rely on Sword and shield with ice staff because being able block cast certain skills are required for survival.

You can dps perfectly fine with an ice staff by simply not putting any points int trifocus passive.

Apherius · November 2018

Unit117 wrote: »

Monster sets and dungeon. We only have one frost related dungeon. Direfrost. That doesn’t even have a part 2 for me to enjoy! ice heart is the only ice set. Ice mechanics at all are rare to see on the game. (What’s the point of the Nord passive?)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/443882/everything-about-direfrost-keep-ii-and-arx-corinium-ii/p1

The decor is ready for Direfrost II, give your set/story/monsterset/boss mechanics idea there, it's the opportunity for magwarden to get some nice gears.

Unit117 · November 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The Ice Staff is in a great place right now and is integral to many builds.

Not putting points into tri focus allows block to still cost stam, no heavy attack taunt, but gives you a access to beneficial destro passives.

Many MagDK in pvp rely on Sword and shield with ice staff because being able block cast certain skills are required for survival.

You can dps perfectly fine with an ice staff by simply not putting any points int trifocus passive.

Im going to completely disagree with you. It’s in a bad place. It’s supposed to be a magic tanking option and it’s fun to use but it’s not good or are par with other tanks or dps where it should be.

A dps is taking a major hit in damage using a ice staff and a tank is just all around left of tank with it. You are suggesting that it’s being run with sword and board which alone shows a problem for. Ice staff needs looking into 100%

Davor · November 2018

Yes Zenimax hates ice so they put it in the game. That makes sense.

Unit117 · November 2018

Davor wrote: »

Yes Zenimax hates ice so they put it in the game. That makes sense.

I don’t mean they actually hate ice. It’s like a facetious way of saying hey you ignored ice. Please focus on it.

Buuuttt... do they regret ice 🤔 I’ll leave that to you my literal friend

VaranisArano · November 2018

I can only assume that the dev responsible for Ice slipped in the parking lot on a winter day.

idk · November 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I can only assume that the dev responsible for Ice slipped in the parking lot on a winter day.

And some of the other devs joined in so the first one to slip did not feel bad. Clearly some hit their head.

To OP, Zos messed up going the lazy route for creating a magicka based tanking weapon from the frost staff, but it is what it is. So without a proper ice based weapon for DPS there is no possible decent build that can be made. It is that simple.

Zos would have to revert the changes to staves concerning the frost staff and then build a proper magicka tanking weapon but that would require actual creative thought weapon wise. Even then frost would still be lower than fire and lightning as it always has. Sets would not change that.

Unit117 · November 2018

idk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I can only assume that the dev responsible for Ice slipped in the parking lot on a winter day.

And some of the other devs joined in so the first one to slip did not feel bad. Clearly some hit their head.

To OP, Zos messed up going the lazy route for creating a magicka based tanking weapon from the frost staff, but it is what it is. So without a proper ice based weapon for DPS there is no possible decent build that can be made. It is that simple.

Zos would have to revert the changes to staves concerning the frost staff and then build a proper magicka tanking weapon but that would require actual creative thought weapon wise. Even then frost would still be lower than fire and lightning as it always has. Sets would not change that.

The frost staff works for a magic tank weapon it just needs the right buffs. And sets that focused to make up some of its failings could help. Attention to both could make it a really good thing. But I’d be happy with anything that provides me a top tier ice build

exeeter702 · November 2018

The issue with ice isnt an easily repairable one in contrast to how elemental damage works in eso.

Finding an applicable use for frost that isnt already covered by both fire and lightning has proven difficult. In the current environment, it cant be as damaging single target as fire nor as damaging aoe as lightning to avoid creating redundant choice. The only natural route then is to make frost weaker in damage and more efficient in utility which is what they attempted. The problem therein lies in the foundation of eso mechanics.

On paper in general, the design philosophy is sound.

Fire more raw and single target damage
Lightning more aoe damage
Frost more utility via CC and durability

The problem is for both fire and lightning, there is clear beneficial use that is not obtained elsewhere when you consider what is expected of a damage dealer - as much damage as possible. For frost, there are countless alternatives that cover everything frost could offer. Make frost taunt instant? Okay, but we have a magicka ranged taunt already via inner fire. Improve the passive mitigation from frost staff passives? Okay but SnB still has to be a good tanking option, and until you force tanks to truly commit to either stam mag or health, there is virtually no reason to go frost over snb outside of rp reasons as even gameplay wise its no different whether you are a "magicka" or "stamina" tank. Improve its CC capabilities? Sure but again, you have countless equally parallel alternatives, i wont list the countless aoe slows and the various roots or even minor maim, and this feeds into the issue with snares and cc in general for eso and how they are applied and rendered unreliable. Improve frost damage? As long as it is weaker than fire and lightning, which it fundamentally has to be, it will never be an option for damage dealers.

For pvp frost has some unique use, but you have to really go out of your way to make it barely work, and there are far more efficient ways to go tank for pvp than pure frost magicka tank builds, and your lethal is almost nonexistent (excpet for perhaps a frost warden niche build). Buffs to various ice sets that would "enable" frost so to speak as a competitive dps or tank route would be DOA since you are committing an entire set just to make frost able to compete with fire or lightning, or if said buffed set brought frost objectively above fire / lighting, you have effectively invalidated fire or lightning for all but snowflake rp reasons.

Major revisions to how elemental properties work in eso would have to happen before frost can be more effective outside of medicore niche setups. Frost needs to be the utility element for magicka builds, its just that tanking and cc utility in eso is completely skewed.

SilverIce58 · November 2018

Fire does single target, shock does AoE, and frost currently does CC, but what if they changed frost to do higher crit damage? Then would it be on par with the other two?

Personally im one of those people who'd be fine with them adding in an alteration staff for tanking purposes. It does magic damage, and everything you can do with ice staff tanking, youd be able to do with alteration tanking...and more of course.

Radiance · November 2018

I agree they should Revert Arctic Blast but I think Ice as an element, is somewhat built for tanking because the Freeze/Slowing aspect works as a crowd control... That being said, Ice Staff still needs some serious work done, The taunt takes entirely way too long...

TheShadowScout · November 2018

Unit117 wrote: »

Why does zenimax hate ice?

Maybe because they watches too much Game of Thrones...

Unit117 wrote: »

The ice staff is a complete mess since it was changed.

...and that's kinda the thing.
Ice used to be a viable DPS choice, but then they redid it to make a tanking choice to match the wardens ice = tankyness selection.

It works for that, just no longer as good for DPS purposes...

I suppose I wish they would add more options instead of pigeonholing things. Add specializations for wardens that allow them to use ice as damage bringer as well, add more choices to staves damage type to get out of the "fire-single, shock-group, ice-tanky" predetermined setup...

max_only · November 2018

They could start by giving us the ice skills npcs have.

1. A literal ice wall
2. an ice tornado that slides along the ground.
3. the ice slow ground effect npcs always pair with Silence.

Rain_Greyraven · November 2018

I'll just leave this right here.......

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Jayman1000 · November 2018

Ice is friggin cold, it's not nice like fire. What you rather be, northpole and freeze to death? Or lie on wonderful beach with hot sun, palms, pina coladas and nice girls?

AbysmalGhul · November 2018

I'm anti ice. I don't even put ice cubes in my drinks >:( No U and no to ice dlc

CaiWenji · November 2018

Ice snow wet you're saying.

DanteYoda · November 2018

Zos hates anything that isn't Nightblade...

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Ice is friggin cold, it's not nice like fire. What you rather be, northpole and freeze to death? Or lie on wondhttps://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/post/quote/445196/comment_5600889erful beach with hot sun, palms, pina coladas and nice girls?

As an Australian i'd rather the north pole... Heat is horrible...

idk · November 2018

Unit117 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I can only assume that the dev responsible for Ice slipped in the parking lot on a winter day.

And some of the other devs joined in so the first one to slip did not feel bad. Clearly some hit their head.

To OP, Zos messed up going the lazy route for creating a magicka based tanking weapon from the frost staff, but it is what it is. So without a proper ice based weapon for DPS there is no possible decent build that can be made. It is that simple.

Zos would have to revert the changes to staves concerning the frost staff and then build a proper magicka tanking weapon but that would require actual creative thought weapon wise. Even then frost would still be lower than fire and lightning as it always has. Sets would not change that.

The frost staff works for a magic tank weapon it just needs the right buffs. And sets that focused to make up some of its failings could help. Attention to both could make it a really good thing. But I’d be happy with anything that provides me a top tier ice build

First, you basically agree with me that the retrofit is poor.

Second, having sets to make up for the frost staffs failings for a tank just means the tank is weaker as they are not wearing the sets that work best for the group merely compounding the short comings of the frost staff.

Finviuswe · November 2018

I called up Zeni myself, they told me they no like ice. It's too cold they said, they says it tries to hurt their hands when theys tries and carry it.

SilverIce58 · November 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

Zos hates anything that isn't Nightblade...

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Ice is friggin cold, it's not nice like fire. What you rather be, northpole and freeze to death? Or lie on wondhttps://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/post/quote/445196/comment_5600889erful beach with hot sun, palms, pina coladas and nice girls?

As an Australian i'd rather the north pole... Heat is horrible...

Honestly same. As a Floridian, with year round sun, its not all its cracked up to be. Especially when you walk outside and you start sweating 5 min later from the slightest physical activity.

Ice is much better.

DocFrost72 · November 2018

Unit117 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The Ice Staff is in a great place right now and is integral to many builds.

Not putting points into tri focus allows block to still cost stam, no heavy attack taunt, but gives you a access to beneficial destro passives.

Many MagDK in pvp rely on Sword and shield with ice staff because being able block cast certain skills are required for survival.

You can dps perfectly fine with an ice staff by simply not putting any points int trifocus passive.

Im going to completely disagree with you. It’s in a bad place. It’s supposed to be a magic tanking option and it’s fun to use but it’s not good or are par with other tanks or dps where it should be.

Not by itself no. It was designed as a complimentaryitem to sword and shield, and to excel at cc and debuffing an enemy. In PvP, ice is certainly a viable option; with or without the tri focus passive.

A dps is taking a major hit in damage using a ice staff-

Yes they are, I one hundred percent agree. They are gaining their magicka pool as their blocking pool and minor maim from the chilled effect (team utility too in the root, if the tank is not able to smack every single add with talons/icy grip) in exchange. 2h is not the #1 choice in pve dps because it gives up damage abilities, utility and passives for survivability as does the ice staff.

-and a tank is just all around left of tank with it. You are suggesting that it’s being run with sword and board which alone shows a problem for.

Ice staff alone is inferior to sword and shield run in tandem with an ice staff, correct. So is two sword and shield, however, inferior to one of each. They work better together than apart, it is no different for dual s&b.

Ice staff needs looking into 100%

Certainly could be QoL upgrades, on that I wholeheartedly agree. I genuinely wonder how people would feel about all staves treating heavy attacks like lightning or restoration staves...