So last night guild chat blew up..and bit of "nerf "rant in the end

Tan9oSuccka · November 2018

I’m not sure what people are complaining about. I’ve been running my Breton Mag Sorc with the same gear.

I can still spam my shields like an idiot.

I must be missing something.

WrathOfInnos · November 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

I’m not sure what people are complaining about. I’ve been running my Breton Mag Sorc with the same gear.

I can still spam my shields like an idiot.

I must be missing something.

Spamming them is mandatory now, since they’re around half as strong as they were before. It’s the concept of casting a shield then being ok for a few seconds that is history.

Waffennacht · November 2018

PvE = Shields less than most boss attacks

PvP = critical damage kills sorc - or anything that ignores resistance.

It is a Nerf, adding resistance to shields means nothing when resistance is removed/ignored. Critical damage will surpass shield strength unless sorc has all traits and 1 set fully dedicated to crit resistance only (Max health and resistance therefore suffer or take up other set)

Anyone that isn't using good abilities or builds think it's a buff

ezio45 · November 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

shields in PvP are now even stronger then they were before the parch.
this has been the only patch in all of history of MMO's where it was intended to nerf something and in the end actually Buffed it instead.

its only buffed if your trying to buff it by losing all your damage,

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

shields in PvP are now even stronger then they were before the parch.
this has been the only patch in all of history of MMO's where it was intended to nerf something and in the end actually Buffed it instead.

its only buffed if your trying to buff it by losing all your damage,

False, l2p

ok, im wearing shackle for defense, im wearing alteration fot sustain, if i switch out all my dov for impen were am i getting damage

Tan9oSuccka · November 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

I’m not sure what people are complaining about. I’ve been running my Breton Mag Sorc with the same gear.

I can still spam my shields like an idiot.

I must be missing something.

Spamming them is mandatory now, since they’re around half as strong as they were before. It’s the concept of casting a shield then being ok for a few seconds that is history.

Hmm. So far I haven’t noticed a drop in survival.

I think a more significant change is what they did to Templar’s. Jabs seems a bit “off” now.

RogueShark · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Actually it's not. But keep using all caps if it makes you feel better. The necessity of shields in PVE is 90% a result of content design. ZOS can say they changed them to make healers feel useful, but the abundance of one-shot mechanics wildly contradicts that.

Preach.

As a healer, shields were never an issue of making me feel 'not needed'. You know what makes a healer feel not-needed? One-shot mechanics that we can't save people from. You pretty much are dead or perfectly fine.
Most people rejoicing over this change are doing so over PvP, which, ironically, was not the intended target of these alterations (allegedly). Go figure.

kypranb14_ESO · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You are a special kind of stupid if you believe any dev that said making shields critable or having resistance effect them was for PVE reasons. PVE enemies don't crit, nor do they have weapon or spell pen!

The fact that PVE enemies do not have weapon or spell pen, and do not crit, makes the resistance changes to shields a direct PVE buff, for increasing the survivability of your character. However, that would assume you want to build around survivability.

If you build like a glass cannon, you should be treated like one.

Deep_01 · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You are a special kind of stupid if you believe any dev that said making shields critable or having resistance effect them was for PVE reasons. PVE enemies don't crit, nor do they have weapon or spell pen!

Shields were already at a strength of ~50% of player hp in PvP. My hardened is/was ~43% of my max hp. Health cap change was for pve.

Zypheran · November 2018

Sometimes I feel like I must be doing something terribly wrong because I feel like I'm the only PVE MagSorc that NEVER used shield. I just found it clunky in my rotation so developed a play style just relying on Powersurge. I can do any endgame content and solo almost all worldbosses. If I do meet content where I die, I swap in Matriarch for heals. I'm not saying my play style is/was better than using preMurkmire shields just that I personally never used shields. I appreciate this only goes for PVE but I really don't think these changes have been as apocalyptic as people are saying. The only big, game-busting change for me in this last patch has been the lag, bugging and disconnecting!! I'm certainly not wanting to trivialize the concerns of other MagSorcs I'm just saying that there are other viable options for how you play. Or has this MagSorc apocalypse just purely been a PVP affliction??

Konstant_Tel_Necris · November 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

PvE = Shields less than most boss attacks

PvP = critical damage kills sorc - or anything that ignores resistance.

It is a Nerf, adding resistance to shields means nothing when resistance is removed/ignored. Critical damage will surpass shield strength unless sorc has all traits and 1 set fully dedicated to crit resistance only (Max health and resistance therefore suffer or take up other set)

Anyone that isn't using good abilities or builds think it's a buff

Its buff, but not for sorcerer, I found its best work on DK tank since he have large shields, and good resistance and HP pool.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

Sorcs and magblades behave much better in PUGs and PVP now, nerf put them in place

Aeladiir · November 2018

qbit wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

You don’t really believe everything you’re told by people in positions of authority do you? You should analyze the logic. Anything illogical is based in lies/mallace. Truth is always logical. Lies are always illogical.

ArE yoU tWeLvE??

DarcyMardin · November 2018

I hear you, OP. Last night had to explain the shield nerf to some people in one of my guilds who hadn’t been on in a while. They were speechless at first, and then furious.

Meanwhile one of my old MMOs recently announced a new “classic” server. Nostalgia might be luring me back there for a while. There was one particularly awesome level 50 raid that I would love running again at the level 50 level cap.

Moonsorrow · November 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

THEY TOOK OUR JOB !!

Laughed at that part way too hard because did hear it in teh South Park voices..

But yes, i agree with you (and the voice of reason people in general) that the nerf demands have to stop when something kills them at pvp.

If only people would play all classes instead of having "main".. such people too often try to make the game balanced so that their main is strong against everyone so they dont mind everyone else getting nerfed, so they daily ask for nerfs to this and that as long as its not on them.

Rock, paper & scissors.. your build cannot be all of them, there always are setups that are your cryptonite as it should, or ALL would be that one setup, where is the fun in that?

This game needs all the flavor and strong class skills (that are still left), those work as counter play and stop some to become the absolute meta, the game needs all the things like Cloak, Reflects, Shields, Purges & big heals, Defiles, Bleeds.. People asking those things nerfed have no idea what happens if they are taken out. They would be hoping to be able travel back in time soon after if all their wishes comes true.

Biro123 · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You are a special kind of stupid if you believe any dev that said making shields critable or having resistance effect them was for PVE reasons. PVE enemies don't crit, nor do they have weapon or spell pen!

Well, I'm gonna reply to this in the same way..

You're a special kind of stupid if you think the devs making the shields cap at half health while applying it AFTER battle-spirit was for PVP reasons. PVP shields were already around half health on most builds...

Now that's out of the way, lets be objective...

Dev's stated that they wanted shielders to have to invest in defence. Their implementation shows that they have done this for both PVE and PVP.

So to that note, they made them be affected by resists in both arenas. Smallish change - in isolation a buff to both PVE and PVP shields. For PVP - as impen is a key part of building for defence - they made them crittable too - and impacted by impen. This is a substantial nerf to PVP shields.

They also effectively said that for PVE, they didn't want mag classes to have health bars that didn't move (to give healers more of a role) - so they capped the shields based on health.. (also fitting in with their main objective of wanting shielders to invest in defence - health in this case). But they realised this would destroy shields in PVP - so made this a (previously unheard of) post-battle-spirit limit. The result being that PVP shields on a balance build aren't really much smaller at all - but PVE shields get hammered.

The point is - the only change the PVE guys are complaining about is the shield-cap. As that's the only change that really affects PVE - then it stands to reason that the either the devs are completely incompetent - or the change was only really intended to affect PVE... But since they stated that was their intention (we want healers to have more of a role) - I can only infer that their intention was to impact PVE in this way.

TL;DR, 2 different changes - one aimed at PVP, one at PVE. Blaming PVP for the PVE change is just dumb.

D0PAMINE · November 2018

I had to put a ton into resistance on my Magsorc. I don't bother slotting a shield now that im at 20k spell and phys. I don't use the character much anymore but did take him into a trial to try it out.

Jayman1000 · November 2018

If a lot of players are indeed leaving because of this that would be bad and ZOS need to fix it. However, sometimes angery people just have a tendency to shout really loud making it seem there are a lot more of them than there really are. Is it really that bad? I still think sorcs are a super strong class to play, it stills owns like a boss.

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

And contrary to what you may believe, when they said in my case that shields were nerfed due to the PVE its not true, who would ever complain NERF SORC IN PVE !! we manage to finish the dungeon quicker ! or anybody heard a healer say " NERF SHIELDS I AM A HEALER AND FELL USELESS THEY TOOK OUR JOB !! or when do adds in PVE crit? it was due to PVP high amount of nerfs are due to PVP because they can't separated (even now there are threads about nerfing shields they should be 2 sec because they can't quickly kill magsorcs in battlegrounds) ...

You are fooling yourself if you believe that:

no one complained about those "OP mag sorcs that can stand in red while my stam toon has to avoid oneshots by moving"
no one complained about "easy mode dps and survivability" of pet sorcs in pve
no one complained that soley stacking max mag increased damage output and shield strength (survivability)
no one complained about "why should I bring anything but mag into a trial"
no one ever complained about group composition (too much NB DDs)
no one complaines about differences and gaps in DPS output (magdens, pet sorcs a while ago)

Note that I don't agree with most of that stuff. But pretending that the forums aren't littered with these kinds of complains is hypocritical.

Mr_Walker · November 2018

Zos are still to work out you should balance with a scalpel, not a sledge hammer, especially in a "mature" game.

I look forward to the next round of nerfing.

RebornV3x · November 2018

Xbox One NA feels dead and A lot of people seem angry at the nerfs this is definitely Morrowind 2.0 for many people and a lot of long timer players are checking out the open beta of Black Desert Online which unlike Tera and Skyforge is one of the top 5MMOs out there on PC

ezio45 · November 2018

RebornV3x wrote: »

Xbox One NA feels dead and A lot of people seem angry at the nerfs this is definitely Morrowind 2.0 for many people and a lot of long timer players are checking out the open beta of Black Desert Online which unlike Tera and Skyforge is one of the top 5MMOs out there on PC

yup, all of my gc's are completely dead

grim_tactics · November 2018

So it took 4 years for my entire clan to finally leave ESO.

Not going to whine and moan about it but, yes, I had ESO+ since it came out and now I no longer do.

For me, it was their refusal to update the servers on console to make PvP even remotely playable.

I gave up earlier this summer and stopped supporting Zenimax as it has become apparent for some time that this game is a cash cow that they refuse to properly optimize.

This latest patch weirdly ended it for the 2 most die-hard players in my guild.

For them it was the combination of having people test these changes then openly ignoring all the feedback and also the multiple times theyve invited streamers to their place and asked for input and ignored all of that as well.

Zenimax does not care about any of you or the quality of their game. They want to know what little work they can do to make you spend the most money.

If there is one thing that has remained constant since launch - they dont even know how to fix/balance their own game.

I hope this finally kills ESO - because this game has bastardized everything Elder Scrolls did well in the stand alone games. Ill rejoice the day they turn these servers off.

DanteYoda · November 2018

You are lucky.. You still have chat in your guild, when i login to get my daily, there is nothing.. Seems everyone quit after nerfmire in the guilds i'm in.

kylewwefan · November 2018

Well, Tuesday night after everyone got the 40gig patch downloaded, everything was back to normal. Even better than normal.

About 50 people on my friends list were on and playing. Got to check out the new trial and zone. No one was really complaining or anything. I normally have around 35 or so friends playing.

Wednesday I had 12 friends playing at one time.

Thursday I had 8 friends playing.

It’s hard to say what the weekend will have in store. Between RDR2 and this Gawdawful DLC....I dont know. Have to wait and see.

A lot of people Love their magic toons. The Devs just whooped the snot out of magic toons in one fowl swoop. We heard it was coming. I think most figured wait and see for ourselves.

It’s bad. You guys messed up. My 15k shields are now 7k. Don’t last. The resistances don’t seem to matter. Maybe a full on re spec and different gear could fix things?

I think people just don’t care. You had an alright thing going, and you just smashed it with a big hammer. For no reason.

Like they totally forgot that they’re in competition with other games out there.

I’m probably gonna stay here a little while longer. But the Devs got to know they messed up. This should be a time when people are flocking to the game to check it out. You just drove them away. GJ

ezio45 · November 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

You are lucky.. You still have chat in your guild, when i login to get my daily, there is nothing.. Seems everyone quit after nerfmire in the guilds i'm in.

Its seriously creepy at times, like usually at least zos chat has something going on....

I pop in to see who's on, noone is on. I say something in gc, nothing.

RebornV3x · November 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Xbox One NA feels dead and A lot of people seem angry at the nerfs this is definitely Morrowind 2.0 for many people and a lot of long timer players are checking out the open beta of Black Desert Online which unlike Tera and Skyforge is one of the top 5MMOs out there on PC

yup, all of my gc's are completely dead

I had to leave 1 or 2 guilds the guild masters left and now I can't find anyone good enough to beat vet trials, DLC dungeons, or the new Blackrose Prison. PvP is boring and my main mag sorc is garbage and id rather just play other game than reroll I always see the same people in PvP and PvP is at its lowest point population wise.

They killed this game and now that real MMO competition is finally coming to Xbox One in early 2019 (PS4 already has FF14) and the fact that RDR2 is out ESO is going to be dead soon this game has been on life support since 2.2 the only people that will be playing ESO in 2019 are the die hard Elder Scrolls fans and most of them are waiting on Elder Scrolls 6 anyhow.

Rake · November 2018

Im in mature guilds, so no.

Jameliel · November 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

The devs clearly aren't gamers themselves haha. Bunch of random and wild changes. No one EVER posts here in the forums or presents the data they allegedly use to make decisions. I've been playing mmos over twenty years now. ESO stands out as as having some of the most inept and arrogant staff in any gaming company. Anyone can spout any number of excuses, but it's clear time and again that most of those people usually haven't played any other mmos, or only 1, 2 at most.

Girl_Number8 · November 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dude, BDO XBox beta is up. Don't waste your time on the travesty that's Nerfmire.

Noice, thnx~ Is it still p2w?

Biro123 · November 2018

Jameliel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

The devs clearly aren't gamers themselves haha. Bunch of random and wild changes. No one EVER posts here in the forums or presents the data they allegedly use to make decisions. I've been playing mmos over twenty years now. ESO stands out as as having some of the most inept and arrogant staff in any gaming company. Anyone can spout any number of excuses, but it's clear time and again that most of those people usually haven't played any other mmos, or only 1, 2 at most.

Actually, I tend to find that many of their balance changes aren't anywhere near as bad as people make out - and in the long run, they are often an improvement.. I'm not going to comment from a PVE perspective - but for PVP, I think the combination of the shield changes, expedition changes and overload changes work (although they are build-limiting).. The Morrowind sustain changes worked - just took a while for people to get used to them..
ofc. they often mess them up by introducing new, unrelated changes (like the enchants fiasco) - but on the whole, barring a few small exceptions, I think the game is probably more balanced than it has been for a good while.