So last night guild chat blew up..and bit of "nerf "rant in the end

ForsakenSin · November 2018

So last night i jump on the Xbox NA after the 50 gig download and finding out i need to hard reset my xbox as there was no sound and inventory items had no names ect ect i jump in and ohh boy
for couple of hours the guild chat and few zone chat was something ive never seen before.

WHY AM I DYING , WHAT HAPPEN TO MY SHIELD !!?? " dose anyone know what changes were made to magica sorc? what is this BS? " ... " why would they do this?" " i am done with this @##$% " i just got kicked from daily pledge" and so on and so on..

ive never heard so many people in guilds so angry , so so angry and rage leaving it was scary and sad.

I did make a stam sorc that might work and im not giving up yet, but from what ive heard how people are angry and fed up i would not be surprised if i never see these people around anymore.
and i know there is that 1% who say " adapt.. its a buff bla bla bla" and yet those people will not share their builds or are trolling or just way better players then i or the rest will ever will be.

... here is the thing i know that if you are other class in PVP you will call for nerfs when something kills you or you get angry and think you are justified by calling nerfs but the thing is you don't see the repercussions from that last night i did .. the nerf goes ahead you are happy and proud but players who spend years playing their beloved class give up and leave ...

Nerfed person leaves and plays another MMO, tell his friends to join now you lost 2 people and so on and so on its cause and effect and ive seen this happen my self when i went from destiny to eso 12 of my close friends eventually joined me and they got their friends as well ( there is % of people who will adapt but question is how many times do you expect those people to adapt before even they give up?)" .

And contrary to what you may believe, when they said in my case that shields were nerfed due to the PVE its not true, who would ever complain NERF SORC IN PVE !! we manage to finish the dungeon quicker ! or anybody heard a healer say " NERF SHIELDS I AM A HEALER AND FELL USELESS THEY TOOK OUR JOB !! or when do adds in PVE crit? it was due to PVP high amount of nerfs are due to PVP because they can't separated (even now there are threads about nerfing shields they should be 2 sec because they can't quickly kill magsorcs in battlegrounds) ...

I apologize this has gotten from what has happen in guild chats to rant , but i just had to get it off my chest that calling nerfs left right and center has a repercussions.

Remember that other class will call nerfs on your class ... and eventually my friend that nerf will happen to you .. and how will you feel when your favo class you spend years of playing perfecting its ruined? what goes around comes around...

Calling nerfs its a vicious cycle its not A balance its just a lazy lazy way to address if there is a problem , and it only ruins the game in the long run and by no means improves it.

Again i do apologize for the long rant

Has anyone else heard same or similar things on their chats or guilds about nerfmire?

Biro123 · November 2018

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

qbit · November 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

You don’t really believe everything you’re told by people in positions of authority do you? You should analyze the logic. Anything illogical is based in lies/mallace. Truth is always logical. Lies are always illogical.

ForsakenSin · November 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

As i state before its difference between nerf and balance

balance is "ok lets use 80% of health and see how we go"... nerf is "50% without any testing"

and also " Zos internal stats indicating balance issues."??? then why do we have so called ambassadors ?
this was a nerf not a balance , balance was adding 1.2 sec delay which people got angry and instead of going ... " ok how about we remove shield stacking making crit and trying out 80% health then they just went with %50 health and done"

zaria · November 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

My magsorc healer was pretty much perfect for keeping weak groups or fake tanks alive or tank the boss while ressing them then failing. CP 180 tank who did not know mechanic to the degree of activating HM in vCoS as he did not know that it was was my crowning moment of awesomeness.
Could do decent damage, very good burst heal in all directions, very high survival.
Tested on pst, put on VO, crafted hurdling weapons and missing parts and started handing in master writs then the xp buff went up, granted it was an year old plan

Kel · November 2018

qbit wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

You don’t really believe everything you’re told by people in positions of authority do you? You should analyze the logic. Anything illogical is based in lies/mallace. Truth is always logical. Lies are always illogical.

That's a huge fallacy. Lies are most often logical, that's why they are believed. If lies were always illogical, they most definitely wouldn't work.

To OP.
We were told shields were nerfed due to PvE reasons. But regardless, does it really matter? This line of thinking only serves to wedge the community futher apart. Point the finger where it belongs...at the combat team. The reality is the state of the game is what it is until the next changes come to pass.
No one has to like it, but it is what it is...if players decide this game is no longer for them, so be it.

Royaji · November 2018

Alrighty, let's do some thinking here. Shileds in PvP were already at half strength. Your 20k shield was 10k in PvP and was pretty darn close to 50% of your health already. The health cap did not change much for PvP. The change that is noticeable in PvP is ability to crit shields. But PvE mobs do not crit. So this change is completely irrelevant in PvE. So the health cap change is not PvP driven (because it matters very little, only for some specific 50k maigicka, 16k health builds).

ZOS stated it directly that they do not like how magicka characters can stack their offensive stat and receive benefit to their defense at the same time. So they changed it. And being more defensive means sacrificing your offensive stats now.

Lord-Otto · November 2018

Dude, BDO XBox beta is up. Don't waste your time on the travesty that's Nerfmire.

ForsakenSin · November 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

You don’t really believe everything you’re told by people in positions of authority do you? You should analyze the logic. Anything illogical is based in lies/mallace. Truth is always logical. Lies are always illogical.

That's a huge fallacy. Lies are most often logical, that's why they are believed. If lies were always illogical, they most definitely wouldn't work.

To OP.
We were told shields were nerfed due to PvE reasons. But regardless, does it really matter? This line of thinking only serves to wedge the community futher apart. Point the finger where it belongs...at the combat team. The reality is the state of the game is what it is until the next changes come to pass.
No one has to like it, but it is what it is...if players decide this game is no longer for them, so be it.

IF we just accept things when changes are made for us in life , without question it , without protesting it , without raising our concerns , this is when humanity fails.

Kel · November 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

You don’t really believe everything you’re told by people in positions of authority do you? You should analyze the logic. Anything illogical is based in lies/mallace. Truth is always logical. Lies are always illogical.

That's a huge fallacy. Lies are most often logical, that's why they are believed. If lies were always illogical, they most definitely wouldn't work.

To OP.
We were told shields were nerfed due to PvE reasons. But regardless, does it really matter? This line of thinking only serves to wedge the community futher apart. Point the finger where it belongs...at the combat team. The reality is the state of the game is what it is until the next changes come to pass.
No one has to like it, but it is what it is...if players decide this game is no longer for them, so be it.

IF we just accept things when changes are made for us in life , without question it , without protesting it , without raising our concerns , this is when humanity fails.

And yet the only real choice is to stay or go.
Concerns have been heard for the last few months. Changs have already been made as a result. Remember cast times? What we have now is the best you are going to have, until the next update. You not being able to accept it isn't going to change anything.
It is what it is.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

You are a special kind of stupid if you believe any dev that said making shields critable or having resistance effect them was for PVE reasons. PVE enemies don't crit, nor do they have weapon or spell pen!

todokete · November 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dude, BDO XBox beta is up. Don't waste your time on the travesty that's Nerfmire.

I don't play weeb asian MMO's where I grind 24/7

Acrolas · November 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

IF we just accept things when changes are made for us in life , without question it , without protesting it , without raising our concerns , this is when humanity fails.

All good for public discourse and policy.

But a private gathering place where you are an invited guest on the condition of terms that you agreed to is a very different thing. Drama and tantrums won't change who's making the rules here.

Stebarnz · November 2018

Builds glass cannon, cries about balance when it dies easy.
Shields were overperforming, they are now inline FACT.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

Stebarnz wrote: »

Builds glass cannon, cries about balance when it dies easy.
Shields were overperforming, they are now inline FACT.

Stebarnz · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Builds glass cannon, cries about balance when it dies easy.
Shields were overperforming, they are now inline FACT.

as stated, FACT

VaranisArano · November 2018

Okay, now I feel a little bad for the players who didn't pay attention to the PTS cycle, didn't read the Patch Notes, and jumped in game after the Update expecting it to be business as usual.

Elsonso · November 2018

.

ForsakenSin wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

You don’t really believe everything you’re told by people in positions of authority do you? You should analyze the logic. Anything illogical is based in lies/mallace. Truth is always logical. Lies are always illogical.

That's a huge fallacy. Lies are most often logical, that's why they are believed. If lies were always illogical, they most definitely wouldn't work.

To OP.
We were told shields were nerfed due to PvE reasons. But regardless, does it really matter? This line of thinking only serves to wedge the community futher apart. Point the finger where it belongs...at the combat team. The reality is the state of the game is what it is until the next changes come to pass.
No one has to like it, but it is what it is...if players decide this game is no longer for them, so be it.

IF we just accept things when changes are made for us in life , without question it , without protesting it , without raising our concerns , this is when humanity fails.

Nothing lasts forever, and the quicker people accept that change is inevitable, the happier they will be. Besides, life is too short to spend protesting everything. Fight only the most important battles. Let the rest of them go.

Kingslayer513 · November 2018

I seriously cannot comprehend how people refuse to do the basic math to figure out how this can be a buff to shields in PVP. I've written about it in many other threads, and Royaji touched on it here ITT as well. People actually think it's secret builds, lmao.

Last patch I ran ~23k hp with a 14k Hardened Ward on my magsorc. Let's see where we stand now in cp Cyrodiil. Recall that battle spirit is applied first, then the 50% shield cap. Now I run 25k hp with a 12.5k Hardened Ward, BUT the shield strength is effectively over 16k due to 20k resistances (30% mitigation). And if you can't figure out how to build 25k hp with 20k resistance on a light armor build, well then let's just say pvp is a little above your skill level.

This was undoubtedly a huge nerf to PVE, but crying about it in pvp is 100% l2p issue.

Gilvoth · November 2018

shields in PvP are now even stronger then they were before the parch.
this has been the only patch in all of history of MMO's where it was intended to nerf something and in the end actually Buffed it instead.

Sylvermynx · November 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Okay, now I feel a little bad for the players who didn't pay attention to the PTS cycle, didn't read the Patch Notes, and jumped in game after the Update expecting it to be business as usual.

Yeah. Me too.

Though I do have to say up front that from the very minute I started playing computer games where there were forums devoted to them (WAY earlier than my first MMO experience btw - actually, before BG 1 released, so late '97 probably) I was already reading everything online that I could find, and participating in forums regarding games I played or expected to play in the future. [And I might just say as an aside, the WORST - absolutely the worst - online experience I have ever had was Bioware's BG 1 forum.... That includes a literal death threat with local police involved, and some bodyguards for a while.... yeah....]

So, I guess I think people should be savvy enough by this time - two decades on for me - to look at the forums for any game they want to play or think about playing. Every game company has forums. You don't have to participate - but you all should be reading.

Because surprises in a game you love.... well.... it sucks.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

Stebarnz wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Builds glass cannon, cries about balance when it dies easy.
Shields were overperforming, they are now inline FACT.

as stated, FACT

Actually it's not. But keep using all caps if it makes you feel better. The necessity of shields in PVE is 90% a result of content design. ZOS can say they changed them to make healers feel useful, but the abundance of one-shot mechanics wildly contradicts that.

As to PVP, well, shields are one of the weaker forms of damage mitigation in PVE. They have the advantage of being simple and straightforward to use, but they are expensive and do not scale with multiple opponents. They are also an active defense which forces a very binary playstyle, as you are either on offense or you are on deffense. Again, simple, but by no means the most powerful or effective way to defend in PVP.

I fundamentally disagree with your OPINION (oh that is fun) that shields were over performing.

THE_BIG_BOSS · November 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

shields in PvP are now even stronger then they were before the parch.
this has been the only patch in all of history of MMO's where it was intended to nerf something and in the end actually Buffed it instead.

i wonder how many times a day you are getting killed by a magsorc while sniping from 50 meters away in stealth

ezio45 · November 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

PVE nerfs often happen as a result of Zos internal stats indicating balance issues.
These were specifically to give PVE healers more of a role.

Do you think the Devs themselves don't want their game to be balanced?

nah this is a result of "oh mag can do vet hm trials but i cant"

ezio45 · November 2018

Stebarnz wrote: »

Builds glass cannon, cries about balance when it dies easy.
Shields were overperforming, they are now inline FACT.

PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME HOW I WAS A GLASS CANNON BUILD???

I wear 511 light shackle with infernal and alteration all divines, ya i have divs but thats no different then any stam wearing 2 damage sets with impen and reinforced, hell the stam is probably better off

a full damage glass cannon build is wearing some like skoria calurrion and spell strat all div

I HAVE 2 NON OFFENSIVE SETS.... these idiots at zos want me to give up all divs and lower my mag pool for health, where the hell am i suppose to get my damage from???

I might as well be a tank, oh wait IM TRYING TO PLAY A LIGHT ARMOR DPS

THIS *** IS WRONG AND ITS THE STUPIDEST *** DECISION ZOS HAS EVER MADE

im not a glass cannon, ive build for some defense but now they have removed so much from light armor you have to build like a tank to get actual survivablility

i have spec into defense and im dying so fast i get 3 ft from the last time i was down... this is *** stupid

THE_BIG_BOSS · November 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Builds glass cannon, cries about balance when it dies easy.
Shields were overperforming, they are now inline FACT.

PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME HOW I WAS A GLASS CANNON BUILD???

I wear 511 light shackle with infernal and alteration all divines, ya i have divs but thats no different then any stam wearing 2 damage sets with impen and reinforced, hell the stam is probably better off

a full damage glass cannon build is wearing some like skoria calurrion and spell strat all div

I HAVE 2 NON OFFENSIVE SETS.... these idiots at zos want me to give up all divs and lower my mag pool for health, where the hell am i suppose to get my damage from???

I might as well be a tank, oh wait IM TRYING TO PLAY A LIGHT ARMOR DPS

THIS *** IS WRONG AND ITS THE STUPIDEST *** DECISION ZOS HAS EVER MADE

im not a glass cannon, ive build for some defense but now they have removed so much from light armor you have to build like a tank to get actual survivablility

i have spec into defense and im dying so fast i get 3 ft from the last time i was down... this is *** stupid

just reroll heavy armor stamblade and feel like a GOD again

ezio45 · November 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

shields in PvP are now even stronger then they were before the parch.
this has been the only patch in all of history of MMO's where it was intended to nerf something and in the end actually Buffed it instead.

its only buffed if your trying to buff it by losing all your damage,

THE_BIG_BOSS · November 2018

actually reroll anything stamina or magplar/magdk and enjoy OPness and shitting on magsorcs/magblades

ezio45 · November 2018

todokete wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dude, BDO XBox beta is up. Don't waste your time on the travesty that's Nerfmire.

I don't play weeb asian MMO's where I grind 24/7

you grind for *** in eso 24/7 anyway, can recall a day of not grinding for some stupid pc of gear that shpould have dropped the last 40 tries

Stebarnz · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Builds glass cannon, cries about balance when it dies easy.
Shields were overperforming, they are now inline FACT.

as stated, FACT

Actually it's not. But keep using all caps if it makes you feel better. The necessity of shields in PVE is 90% a result of content design. ZOS can say they changed them to make healers feel useful, but the abundance of one-shot mechanics wildly contradicts that.

As to PVP, well, shields are one of the weaker forms of damage mitigation in PVE. They have the advantage of being simple and straightforward to use, but they are expensive and do not scale with multiple opponents. They are also an active defense which forces a very binary playstyle, as you are either on offense or you are on deffense. Again, simple, but by no means the most powerful or effective way to defend in PVP.

I fundamentally disagree with your OPINION (oh that is fun) that shields were over performing.

OK... The 90% content design, do you mean vet trials? because that's the only time I can see where the shield spam would be kinda needed, all other content with the exception of vet hm new dlc does not require an invulnerability button.
Its only sorcerers that are complaining because people say its a class defining skill or refuse to find a different way around their personal problem.

The shields were over performing you have to admit that. in PVP they still are.

If the content is no longer super easy that's a good thing right? more challenge? more interesting?

Kingslayer513 · November 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

shields in PvP are now even stronger then they were before the parch.
this has been the only patch in all of history of MMO's where it was intended to nerf something and in the end actually Buffed it instead.

its only buffed if your trying to buff it by losing all your damage,

False, l2p