ONE TAMRIEL 2.0!

joaaocaampos · November 2018

Below I present 3 Concepts that ZOS can implement in ESO. If only one of these Concepts is implemented, I will be happy, and I know other players as well. The favorite Concept of many players is Concept 2 (you will see below).

Summary:

CP for all Overland Monsters and Bosses
Dungeon Mode Toggle for Delves and Public Dungeons
Public Dungeons as Quest Hubs

Concept 1: CP for all Overland Monsters and Bosses

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Champion Points
We spent a fair amount of time discussing the Champion Point system because it is our belief that the power creep in this system is responsible for many of the issues ZOS is trying to address in the first place (such as players being able to avoid mechanics, not have to make difficult build choices, and the feeling that healers are not needed). The Devs indicated that the CP system is intended to counter-balance itself, that is, I can get X% buff, but that is negated by your -X% buff. The Devs indicated the way multipliers and other mechanics currently work means that counter-balance is not quite right. The class reps agreed and added the problem goes deeper; since Bosses don’t have CP, they aren’t getting the -X% modifiers. The end result is that players quickly out-scale and become too strong for any PvE content that gets released.

We also said it was unfortunate that much of our class identity has been taken away because the Champion System (and gear) has so much power.

It's unanimous that overland content is too easy. I agree that the content should be easy, but not so easy! Why not increase the difficulty a bit? I think the game can be fun and less boring again. When I talk about "overland content", I'm talking about the whole zone: quest hubs, delves, public dungeons, dolmens etc, including all monsters and bosses, even world bosses!

And you ask me... What would change?

With One Tamriel, overland content now scales to CP160, right? That would not change. My suggestion is not to add a new scaling, but to make the monsters a little more powerful. That is, monsters now have Champion Points bonuses!

You may think: "Oh, monsters will now have different Champion Levels and I will see those Levels as soon as I come across them!" Oh, no, no, no! You're wrong! As I said earlier, monsters now have Champion Points bonuses, not Champion Levels. And the bonus will be the maximum for all monsters: 15%, 25%, 35% and 5280. That is, no matter if the player is CP 160 or 600, the monster will always have the same CP bonus against the player.

Increases Physical and Spell Penetration by 5280.
Increases Physical, Poison, Disease, Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage by 15%.
Increases the damage of direct damage attacks and damage over time effects by 25%.
Increases the damage of Light (and Heavy) Attacks by 35%.
Increases Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280.
Reduces damage taken from Poison, Disease, Physical, Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage by 15%.
Reduces damage taken from direct damage attacks and damage over time effects by 25%.
Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by 35%.

Above, I've put the most relevant Stars from constellations. ZOS can add other Stars like Blessed and Quick Recovery (both with 15% bonus). On the other hand, many other Stars will be left out (the entire Thief constellation, for example, or Stars like "Precise Strikes" and "Elfborn". I just don't know what to say about the "Resistant" Star. Monsters and Critical Damage dont match!

So... What about new players who don't have CP yet? Or those who have low CP? Well, I know monsters will be at least 50% more powerful, right? No matter what, tests will be needed. PTS! In my opinion, ESO should be a bit more challenging, even for new players! If monsters become too powerful for new players, ZOS can always fix a few things.

Optional: Craglorn (and Imperial City)

As far as I know, Craglorn monsters don't have this CP Bonus shown above, right? They are simply more powerful, just like the Imperial City monsters. So the CP Bonus for these contents would be optional. It is necessary? It is not necessary? It's something to discuss!

Concept 2: Dungeon Mode Toggle for Delves and Public Dungeons

Delves and

Public Dungeons (are Dungeons and) can also be challenging content. Before you enter the Delve or Public Dungeon, you choose to face Normal or Veteran monsters! Why not? It can be fun and challenging!

Delves and Public Dungeons must be included in Dungeon Mode Toggle.
Veteran Delves and Veteran Public Dungeons would be better than Group Delves and Group Quest Hubs (Skyreach, Spellscar, Shada's Tear, The Seeker's Archive, Rahni'Za etc).
No need to be in a group to find other players in Veteran Delves and Veteran Public Dungeons!
XP and Gold earned in Veteran Delves and Veteran Public Dungeons are the same as the Normal version! That is, XP and Gold are not the real rewards.
New daily quests added to Public Dungeons: blue reward for Normal and purple for Veteran.
Current Delves are Normal Delves.
Current Public Dungeons are Normal Public Dungeons.
Veteran difficulty is based on an even more challenging Craglorn. That is, Veteran Delves is as challenging as Group Delves. Veteran Public Dungeons is as challenging as Skyreach, Spellscar, Shada's Tear, The Seeker's Archive and Rahni'Za.
Based on everything I've presented above, redo Craglorn: Group Delves are now Delves and Group Quest Hubs (Skyreach, Shada's Tear etc) are now Public Dungeons. Dungeon Mode Toggle is active for these contents!

Is there any conflict in all the content presented above? In my view, no! CP Bonus is for ALL MONSTERS AND BOSSES, no matter if the content is Normal or Veteran. Dungeon Mode Toggle doesn't matter in this case.

Concept 3: Public Dungeons as Quest Hubs

Public Dungeon will be now Quest Hubs (like Skyreach, Shada's Tear etc). Each Public Dungeon would be unique, with its own Daily Quests. Some Public Dungeons can be "Public Trials", with Daily Quests rewarding Trial sets! Why not?

Players will have more Public Dungeons per Chapter and Zone DLC.

6 Public Dungeons per Chapter.
2 Public Dungeons per Zone DLC.

Finally, I end up saying that these are my suggestions! This is my One Tamriel 2.0!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Finn

Daedric_NB_187 · November 2018

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

Gatviper · November 2018

The game is not too easy for me. It's right where it is fun for me, I can solo lots of stuff, because I worked hard to figure out my worn sets and to get the maximum Champion Points. I think I earned the ability to now be a strong dps, so why shouldn't I be able to?

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

It's about nerfing everyone else.

JimmyJuJu · November 2018

Give yourself a challenge and limit yourself to one weapon skill and one class skill. I tried that for a bit on my templar with vanilla gear (regular crafted, no sets). My class skill was sweeps and my weapon skill was pulse (destro line). Trash mobs suddenly became a challenge and WB's were impossible. I didn't dare try a dungeon - not even nBC1. And pvp....well, you can imagine.

Do that for a while and you will appreciate cutting through zombies like a hot knife through butter

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Give yourself a challenge and limit yourself to one weapon skill and one class skill. I tried that for a bit on my templar with vanilla gear (regular crafted, no sets). My class skill was sweeps and my weapon skill was pulse (destro line). Trash mobs suddenly became a challenge and WB's were impossible. I didn't dare try a dungeon - not even nBC1. And pvp....well, you can imagine.

Do that for a while and you will appreciate cutting through zombies like a hot knife through butter

Sounds like a lot of fun /s

JimmyJuJu · November 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Give yourself a challenge and limit yourself to one weapon skill and one class skill. I tried that for a bit on my templar with vanilla gear (regular crafted, no sets). My class skill was sweeps and my weapon skill was pulse (destro line). Trash mobs suddenly became a challenge and WB's were impossible. I didn't dare try a dungeon - not even nBC1. And pvp....well, you can imagine.

Do that for a while and you will appreciate cutting through zombies like a hot knife through butter

Sounds like a lot of fun /s

Lol, yeah. Turns out the main challenge was sustain. It's very difficult to solo a WB or play PvP without sustain.

kathandira · November 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

snip

While I agree that Overland enemies are quite easy, I believe they have to be.

Using an example of 3 levels of gamers take this into consideration.

Beginner Players - Overland will be quite difficult to them as they aren't likely to have looked up builds and optimization

Intermediate Players - Overland might not be difficult, but there is still a challenge to be had with some of the World Bosses and Public Dungeons.

Expert Players - Overland is a joke to them, as well as it should be. These are the End Game players. The only challenge they will see is from Veteran Content.

With those 3 categories in mind, what sort of difficulty do you set Overland to? It is touchy and a struggle that developers in just about any MMO face.

ScardyFox · November 2018

They should just scale dungeons (in some fashion) to reflect the amount of CP you have like other games do with how high a gear score you have. I can't be bothers to prattle on about detail (because they don't listen), but an ironed out version of my aforementioned idea would be the most straight forward route without removing CP.

Meh

kathandira · November 2018

ScardyFox wrote: »

They should just scale dungeons (in some fashion) to reflect the amount of CP you have like other games do with how high a gear score you have. I can't be bothers to prattle on about detail (because they don't listen), but an ironed out version of my aforementioned idea would be the most straight forward route without removing CP.

Meh

Wouldn't that segment players too much?

If the group is a mix of CP ranging from 160 to 780, what CP would the dungeon be set to? It could end up being too easy or too hard for some of the group members.

If the dungeon finder tool prioritized grouping players with similar CP levels, I feel that would make queues take longer.

Unless i'm missing your point. In which case, i'm interested in more details.

joaaocaampos · November 2018

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

Didn't you read the first spoiler I wrote? I don't want to nerf myself. I want all monsters with CP bonuses. If you read the first spoiler, this is a problem that the Devs are discussing. It's a real problem!

kathandira · November 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

Didn't you read the first spoiler I wrote? I don't want to nerf myself. I want all monsters with CP bonuses. If you read the first spoiler, this is a problem that the Devs are discussing. It's a real problem!

lol, to be fair, I sometimes think it is better off in the hands of the players. ZOS's idea of balancing the game rarely results in a satisfactory result.

The latest example I can think of is the change to NHOF. First boss was nerfed to a basic tank and spank fight. Spheres no longer spawn with shields. Spheres no longer have a poison AoE. At this point, there is no reason even have the Spheres there at all.

joaaocaampos · November 2018

ScardyFox wrote: »

They should just scale dungeons (in some fashion) to reflect the amount of CP you have like other games do with how high a gear score you have. I can't be bothers to prattle on about detail (because they don't listen), but an ironed out version of my aforementioned idea would be the most straight forward route without removing CP.

Meh

My suggestion is not to create another scaling.

BTW, if you don't know, all monsters are scaled to the CP 160 status. Nowadays, it doesn't matter if you are Lvl 20, Lvl 40 or CP 130, the monsters will always have the same power!

My suggestion is to increase this power with CP bonuses!

This is a long-term change. For Veteran players, it doesn't matter if you are CP 800 or 1500, the monsters will have the maximum bonus right away.

KatzMainTank · November 2018

No.

Tandor · November 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

It's unanimous that overland content is too easy.

I stopped reading at that point. It's a false premise and no individual player should reckon to speak for anyone but him/herself.

Katahdin · November 2018

So it could get to the point where player need to level and get XP to get CP.

Player has done all easy quests and gotten to CP 100 for example

Player needs to kill more things to get more CP but all other things have CP 800 bonuses so player has no chance whatsoever to kill them, and just dies repeatedly.

Player uninstalls

deLioncourt · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

It's about nerfing everyone else.

do you ever have anything worthwhile to say?

Donny_Vito · November 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

So it could get to the point where player need to level and get XP to get CP.

Player has done all easy quests and gotten to CP 100 for example

Player needs to kill more things to get more CP but all other things have CP 800 bonuses so player has no chance whatsoever to kill them, and just dies repeatedly.

Player uninstalls

That's a very slippery-slope.

joaaocaampos · November 2018

kathandira wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

Didn't you read the first spoiler I wrote? I don't want to nerf myself. I want all monsters with CP bonuses. If you read the first spoiler, this is a problem that the Devs are discussing. It's a real problem!

lol, to be fair, I sometimes think it is better off in the hands of the players. ZOS's idea of balancing the game rarely results in a satisfactory result.

The latest example I can think of is the change to NHOF. First boss was nerfed to a basic tank and spank fight. Spheres no longer spawn with shields. Spheres no longer have a poison AoE. At this point, there is no reason even have the Spheres there at all.

It's because ZOS wants to please everyone.

The first idea that came to my mind before this "CP Bonus to monsters" was what is in Optional 2. That is, Dungeon Mode Toggle for Delves and Public Dungeons. This suggestion puts the choice in the hands of the players!

Rain_Greyraven · November 2018

Yawn...more whines of it's too easy.

Can't anyone troll with originality anymore?

Starlock · November 2018

A few items for consideration:

It is NOT unanimous that overland content is too easy. Especially not world bosses and public dungeons, which are technically part of overland content. I can and do see players struggle with it.
Have you ever done questing on your tank? Think for a few moments about what CP scaling overland content would do to that experience. Also, to a lesser extent, think about playing a healer in that same scenario.
CP scaling of foes may put too much burden on the servers with all the calculations. It would need to be implemented carefully to avoid that, or use some other mechanism entirely.
Norm/Vet versions of indoor instanced areas might be possible and interesting, especially couled with actual content (aka, quests).
Having to struggle though basic content like I did when first learning the game really, really doesn’t appeal to me in the least. Why bother having CP at all when all the gains are completely negated by mobs having it too (or in many cases, negated and then some)?

Malmai · November 2018

LoL

Facefister · November 2018

A third difficulty for non-DLC dungeons which golden jewelry as possible rewards.

joaaocaampos · November 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

So it could get to the point where player need to level and get XP to get CP.

Player has done all easy quests and gotten to CP 100 for example

Player needs to kill more things to get more CP but all other things have CP 800 bonuses so player has no chance whatsoever to kill them, and just dies repeatedly.

Player uninstalls

@Katahdin I have seen many reports from players who uninstalled the game because it was too easy and boring. I even found it very easy when I started playing.

BTW... I had suggested a counterpoint as I wrote this discussion. But I deleted and wrote only:

joaaocaampos wrote: »

If monsters become too powerful for new players, ZOS can always fix a few things.

ZOS can limit this monsters CP bonus to accounts that have reached Lvl 50 CP 10. How?

If you are below Lvl 50, you receive a buff that overrides this monsters CP bonus.

Beardimus · November 2018

TLDR as in a rush, but overland IS top easy why not just scale up to your CP level

Katahdin · November 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

TLDR as in a rush, but overland IS top easy why not just scale up to your CP level

Because they can't scale an open world map where a level 3 0CP character can be in the same map and a CP 780 character

@joaaocaampos
I've seen plenty of lowbie characters struggling and dying to trash mobs in open world zones. Yea it's easy for SOME players. It's not easy for every player.

The ONLY way to make it harder for you is to nerf your character to the content either voluntary by removing CP, wearing white gear or with a slider

Otherwise every character would have to have their own instanced copy of the map which would require recoding of the game. Not gona happen

Dragonnord · November 2018

It's not easy for everyone, as I constantly see players of all levels struggling in world bosses and so.

And same question; if a CP160, CP405 and CP810 engage the same boss, what level does that boss scale too?

Things are fine as they are.

Apherius · November 2018

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

Wow nice idea, maybe I could spam equilibrium too and spam light attack.

I'm one of those who want the game to challenge me without having to play naked or without cp, why ? Because i want the try hard to feel like a push through the limit using everysingle toll I have to do it ( stuff, cp ect... ).
I don't want to play naked while knowing that i could easily nuke the content if I had all these toll ... even if i complete it naked I would just be sad to see that the game is easier than I thought.

The base game difficulty should be increased by 15%, then add more difficulty tier ( normal/medium/veteran/undaunted) for overland, dungeon, public dungeon, everything.

DMuehlhausen · November 2018

Max CP at 160. Since all items and enemies are CP160. Then your choices matter. At this point (yes I know not all points count after a certain point) you can almost fill out all 3 trees what is the point of the system.

Or even just max it to 160 CP in each of the CP trees.

joaaocaampos · November 2018

Starlock wrote: »

A few items for consideration:
It is NOT unanimous that overland content is too easy. Especially not world bosses and public dungeons, which are technically part of overland content. I can and do see players struggle with it.

Have you ever done questing on your tank? Think for a few moments about what CP scaling overland content would do to that experience. Also, to a lesser extent, think about playing a healer in that same scenario.

CP scaling of foes may put too much burden on the servers with all the calculations. It would need to be implemented carefully to avoid that, or use some other mechanism entirely.

Norm/Vet versions of indoor instanced areas might be possible and interesting, especially couled with actual content (aka, quests).

Having to struggle though basic content like I did when first learning the game really, really doesn’t appeal to me in the least. Why bother having CP at all when all the gains are completely negated by mobs having it too (or in many cases, negated and then some)?

Considerations of your considerations

Some content is group content. You can even do it yourself, but you need CP and be well equipped. There's nothing bad about it.
Yes! If you are a Magicka Templar using at least 5 light pieces and damage shield (even before that nerf), it is more challenging than you to use 5 heavy pieces! That is, I learned that if you are a solo player, use heavy armor!
I AM NOT PROPOSING CP SCALING! I think I made that clear already! It's just a buff for all monsters.
Adding Dungeon Mode Toggle for Delves and Public Dungeons was the first idea I had.
Well ... That's something to discuss.

kathandira · November 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

You know you can always nerf yourself by taking off your gear and clearing out your CP to zero if the game is too easy for you right?

Didn't you read the first spoiler I wrote? I don't want to nerf myself. I want all monsters with CP bonuses. If you read the first spoiler, this is a problem that the Devs are discussing. It's a real problem!

lol, to be fair, I sometimes think it is better off in the hands of the players. ZOS's idea of balancing the game rarely results in a satisfactory result.

The latest example I can think of is the change to NHOF. First boss was nerfed to a basic tank and spank fight. Spheres no longer spawn with shields. Spheres no longer have a poison AoE. At this point, there is no reason even have the Spheres there at all.

It's because ZOS wants to please everyone.

The first idea that came to my mind before this "CP Bonus to monsters" was what is in Optional 2. That is, Dungeon Mode Toggle for Delves and Public Dungeons. This suggestion puts the choice in the hands of the players!

Option 2 couldn't hurt anyone. Just having the option to set your group to Vet, meaning any delve of PD you walk into will be in the Veteran Instance. Not keen on the idea of it being in a group finder since there are simply too many choices. But for just the way it is now, adding a second instance which is harder sounds like a fine idea to me.