Mag-Sorcs are slow and debilitated in a PvP environment!

Ragnarock41 · August 2018

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

First play and win a dueling tournament with magic sorc. Then come and teach others how to play magic sorc. Even sypher & kodi cannot do it , when at its prime. You are a better player. Just prove it.

1.petsorcs are banned from literally all duel tournaments I cared enough to watch or participate for a damn good reason.
2. No class is balanced around dueling.
3. I'm not interested in the shieldstack-atro-mines-kite behind pets... type of gameplay.

I love how you people use dueling tournaments for your arguments ONLY when it fits your agenda but never even mention it otherwise.

Ragnarock41 · August 2018

Irylia wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

Stam is incredibly easy

Says a guy with 3 sorcs. You're the soul twin of the stamblade that swears its not overpowered.

Aedaryl · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, the 3,5 second delay totally makes curse a bad ability, like sub assault right?Cause delayed burst without a cast time isn't the literal best thing in PvP right?

You litteraly don't understand the point. Having the possibilty to set up a delayed burst is strong yeah, but there is 3 problem with that on sorc :

The ultimate burst is so predictable with meteor than every single competitive player block it, making it useless.
Sorc only have delayed burst, which mean if you block every 3.5s or dodge, or shield, or cc the sorc, you strongly avoid the burst and then the sorc cannot make a kill. The actual problem with sorc is the fact that the 100% easely counterable burst is countered by any competetant player, and sorc doesn't have pressure to actually make the burst deadly.
The way how the sorc work defensly make the sorc spending 2 GCD every 5s to not be insta dead, the 4 other global cooldown are used by curse/clench/frag/fury. the problem is the sorc doesn't have a window for "error", that's mean a stun in the burst set up make the all burst irrevelant, as well as a need to re shield cuz ennemy pressure. That's mean you can counter the sorc burst by defending yourself at the right time but also by just being offensive and breaking the sorc set up.

The sorc burst is hard to set up VS competitive player, and the burst is extremely easy to counter, and EVEN WHEN you make it land and the ennemy don't counter it, it's just useless because you cannot (and should not) one shot the player. Here come the lack of pressure destroying the sorc offense. light attack between skill is just out heal.

The summerset rune cage just prooved how bad the sorc is design. When the sorc is always able to land his burst (+ more damage) it's just OP. When sorc cannot land the burst and have the burst damage reduced, it's just garbage.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

And dark exchange/dark deal, do you realize this is literally battle roar on demand? Complaining for cast time on this ability is simply ridicilous for how rewarding it is. There isn't even a risk involved anymore, just pop an immovable potion/poison, and completely refill your resources while free to move around.

This is completly false. Dark exchange on a magicka sorc is only usable when he try to escape. Guess what, everything stamina can chase the sorc and even outspeed him, and gapcloser those the same in term of ruining sorc escape and recover.

Battle roar is COMBAT sustain, where dark exchange is OUT OF COMBAT sustain. If you want to kill people, you cannot dark run for dark exchange.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

As for C.frags, yes , maybe it does need the stun back, but the cast time on it is fine considering its a ranged spammable with other benefits for slotting it. The wrecking blow for example, is practically garbage in comparission, and if it gets the stun back it would be basically a d.swing with 41 meter range.

Comparing frag and dizzing swing is stupid. You also forgot frag cannot be spammed, and frag have a slow travel time + you can know when the sorc will land the frag because of telegraphed burst, or cast time, or the glowed sorc hand showing u the proc. Also, frag deal less damage than dizzing swing and it's reflectable.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I'm not talking for you in particular but of the sorcs crying in this forum damn well knows they don't have the reaction time required to properly play a stamina character. Most of them don't even know how to properly weave or sustain.I know because I kill some of them on a regular basis.

Go on competitive scene and just look how sorc is there. It's bad EVERYWHERE, sorc defense is the weakest outnumbered while sorc offense is again the weakest for the reasons I spoke before.

Sorc is only good to be a negate zergling machine or a complete noob potatoes smacher. For everything competitive sorc isn't wanted.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Personally I wish sorc was about streaking and fragging people to death, instead of shieldstacking and mine spamming and blowing up people with no counterplay builds like a total nobrainer ,so that they could realize how much they DON'T know about this game. Buuuut instead zenimax decides to cater to casuals with no skill at all and people with the reaction times of a goldfish.

Sorc burst is actually 100% counterable.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

As for the mobility creep, the actual problem about mobility right now is swift trait(which is basically permanent major expedition for only losing about 2500 stam or magicka, very overpowered actually.) , and this is something any class can also utilize, it doesn't even require sprinting. Yet you're all here talking this is something exclusive to stamina. Look, I know mobility creep is a thing, but stamina is balanced around it. Swift came out of nowhere and took it to a ridicilous place where everyone is speed capped. Complain about that and I will agree %100.

Swift is the cheery on the cake, even without swift, heavy armor character can chase sorc with the meta lingering + speed potion.

Streak is the WORSE mobility tool, making sorc the number 4 of the worst mobility on the 10 classes. Here is the problem if you need to understand why, tell it I will explain that.

About swift, it synergise far better with stamina than with magicka, because of snare immunity and removal, because of sprint being more usable for stamina, but also because stamina already have major expedition passively with lingering where magicka doesn't.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think most of the sorcs here just know that they don't want to play a class that is fair and on line with everything else. I know how bad some of them play, I would expose them however its not allowed by the forum rules.

Sorc is garbage and not in line with other classes.

Offense is the 2 worst (magden still exisit lol).
Defense is the worst (shield are gabage when outnumbered)
Mobility is the 4 worst.

A sorc can't kill competitive player, a sorc can't escape stamina build, a sorc can't defend himself against 2+ people. Sorc is useless.

Mintaka5 · August 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

It is so bad...Like it's not even primetime and I get killed through roll dodges, I get killed because I can't cast my wards, I press the buttons...WHERE IS THE SKILL? Rune cage alone is already delayed..With lag..IT DOESNT GO OFF, LIKE WHAT?! MY bursts do not work in cyrodiil..Nerf lag?

Dude it happens to us all. Lag is unforgiving for sorcs. Need quick reaction times and it's hard with the performance. I have to prematurely dodge roll or break free before I see a NB animation or else my health bar is at nothing by the time the animation goes off.

This ^^^

Galarthor · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

So ... your argument is either "I, a stam player, got a taste of my own medicine and it is OP" (in case you are also using swift) or "I, a stam player, suffer even more from swift than mag players do" (if you are not using swift). Regardless of which statement is true, in both cases you point towards swift being an issue. And even if you suffer more than mag sorcs, that doesn't mean that mag sorcs don't need a mobility buff.

In fact, in the current state of the game stamina builds far outperform any magicka build in terms of mobility. With stamSorcs and stamblades being at the very top and in serious need of a nerf.

The fact that mag sorcs are better off than mag DKs and mag plars does not mean they are in a good position. It's funny how mag builds get pitted against each other while they are all outshone by any abritrary stam build. Sprinting isn't really an option for any magicka build, and streak is clunky af and very expensive. Streak is also easily countered by any gap closer (and there are numerous additional issues with streak). Oh and you stam players can run at the speed of light with objectives in PvP, but that's totally fine ... b/c you are stam players. All of the magicka builds need some love in that regard ... including sorcs.

It seems your main reason for why sorcs don't deserve to have their mobility improved is b/c you are butthurt they killed you with rune cage in the time between Summerset and Wolfhunter. StamBlades have been doing that for ages and are still doing it. Yet it seems to be totally ok for them to have that kind of speed + port through walls + cloak in combination with perma dodge. And Stam Sorcs ... they are completely out of control when it comes to mobility. Yet somehow, mag Sorcs are the issue once again. This is getting so old.

As for delays:
Stambuilds are so fast nowadays that you often cannot even hit them with range attacks b/c for some reason the game is too stupid to comprehend their speed and simply won't activate any abilities. So we are not much better off than melee guys. Plus the additional travel time gives speedy gonzales plenty of time to dodge the attack.

Mintaka5 · August 2018

OMG I couldn't write this myself. I mena really what is the point of even having magsorcs?

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk

Im speechless, this is a solo parse, as much as you may say this player is very skilled, the dps gap between NB and ANY other class has reached ludicrous levels, not to mention their crazy sustain with what looks like blue food (lol), while most others struggle even with witchmother.

Props to the combat team, I barely see video parses from other classes anymore, since no one even bothers.

Heimpai · August 2018

Soo i should make a stamsorc instead of mag? I have been debating making one or a stamplar for a while now

Mintaka5 · August 2018

Heimpai wrote: »

Soo i should make a stamsorc instead of mag? I have been debating making one or a stamplar for a while now

Based on my experiences in Cyrodiil, stamsorc is a much better route to go IMO. Stam builds have better timing AFAIC, and can pack a lot more damage in less time (basically the prime definition of DPS). Magsorcs are slow. If the cast times aren't long enough, the instant casts are now show a delay on most if not all magicka skills. If you do go magsorc, just slot criticals, pray and hope they kill instantly, and if not be prepared to run away often (if you can even out pace a stam build).

Galarthor · August 2018

Heimpai wrote: »

Soo i should make a stamsorc instead of mag? I have been debating making one or a stamplar for a while now

Definitely stam sorc. They got the best mobility in the game up there with stamblades far better than magsorcs. They deal a lot of damage, both burst and sustained pressure. They are quite tanky. And Dodge, Block, and Sprint work independent of server lag so you will always have an edge over magicka builds. Also none of them require an ability slot and non of them are disabled or diminished when carrying objectives. Also their preformance does not have to adjusted to CP environment as they are based on % rather than amounts.

CompM4s · August 2018

Magsorcs are still very good in pvp. The delayed damage from curse allows huge burst potential. They have a good execute for pvp, large shields, good mobility with streak, and dont forget the rune cage meteor combo.

Sevn · August 2018

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I'm just not seeing a problem with magic sorcs under performing.

I have years of experience with a Stamblade. My K/D ratio with that class in battlegrounds is usually around 9 to 5, with loads of assists. I've played a mag sorc off and on for the same time, but do not have nearly the pvp experience with it. Yesterday I played a few bg with the sorc and my K/D ratios on the most recent three games were 17/4, 19/5, and 20/5. In other words double the amount of kills for about the same number of deaths. That's in a class where I don't have the skills and key positions nearly as well memorized and my knowledge of the kit is not nearly as deep. I'm having similar experience in Cyrodiil.

Anecdotal. I infrequently do BGs and for me it's a complete melt-fest. I'd be lucky to pull off a single kill with my magsorc. And every other player seems to be in hyper-speed play.

So my experience is anecdotal, but yours somehow is not?

Waiting on a response to this as well.

ccmedaddy · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

Okay, for one, I have all 15 character slots filled with a variety of builds. So I've run the gamut of builds in ESO. From my experience stam builds are extremely fast. They can run for longer periods of time, they can execute skills a lot faster than a mag build, and are simply ridiculously fast in all aspects. I sometimes find myself playing on my stam build more now, because my magsorcs are agonizingly slow. I see plenty of stam DKs and NBs executing with 2Her skills that are front loaded with gap closers and very fast stuns and interrupts. Dizzying swing is only one skill that any build has access to, so it's not really relevant in this discussion.

Using your brain in a fight is one thing, but not being able to line up the rotation against speed killers in enough time, is just broke AF game design. Magsorcs do not cast any skills fast enough to provide a kill faster than a stam build, that's why they have to lean on stupid stuff like haunting curse, and crystal frags (basically clench your butthole, wait, and pray damage dealing). I've experienced many times stamblades that can out pace my streak with a gap closer, spammed, and still have enough stam to beat the *** out of me with 5 or 6 skills. I literally have no time to respond with anything. Either that or my PC is taking a *** at every stam attack.

To add to this, is the debilitating mechanics built into sorc class skills that seem to have a lot of intrinsic time restraints. Look at the skill lines most utilized by mages versus stam builds! Sorc skills for instance are >= 1s, if not instant. 2Her, bow, and dual all are <= 1s or instant. In fact looking through the skill trees, I don't see any skills for a viable stambuild that are above 1s. NONE!

Now to address the delay on certain skills in the Sorc skill line:

Daedric curse - no delay from cast to placement, but FFS 3.5 seconds to execute???? How many attacks do you think you could land with a 2Her in 3.5 seconds? Dizzying swing has 1s cast time. Back-loaded time steal.

Crystal Frags - 1s cast time, but really only effective if procced, so unless it does proc the skill is pretty much useless in PvP

Dark Exchange - 1.2s cast time. This is so annoying, because it is a 0.2s wait time to heal, while stams get off a 1s stam skill. It makes it practically useless. Siphoning abilities that provide heals for NBs are instant. Every stam build uses vigor and we know the efficiency of that skill.

Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury - Instant but "If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds". 4 SECONDS!!!?!?!?! RIP. This skill has just started showing about 0.2s delay between cast and strike. You can call me out on it, but I've been running that skill long enough to notice that the delay is present after Wolfhunter patch.

Looking through DK and NB class skills there are a few 1s cast times, but honestly most of the class skills are INSTANT!!! All of DK's and NB's stam morphs are instant casts.

Like I said I was not looking to debate power, but the handicap of time that magsorcs have to put up with in this game. Very few skills that magsorcs utilize are compensated with extra damage to make up for all the time hijacking that goes on in this build. So I am arguing that time is the main factor that is debilitating, and makes for a sub-par build.

Oh yeah, the 3,5 second delay totally makes curse a bad ability, like sub assault right?Cause delayed burst without a cast time isn't the literal best thing in PvP right?

And dark exchange/dark deal, do you realize this is literally battle roar on demand? Complaining for cast time on this ability is simply ridicilous for how rewarding it is. There isn't even a risk involved anymore, just pop an immovable potion/poison, and completely refill your resources while free to move around.

As for C.frags, yes , maybe it does need the stun back, but the cast time on it is fine considering its a ranged spammable with other benefits for slotting it. The wrecking blow for example, is practically garbage in comparission, and if it gets the stun back it would be basically a d.swing with 41 meter range.

I'm not talking for you in particular but of the sorcs crying in this forum damn well knows they don't have the reaction time required to properly play a stamina character. Most of them don't even know how to properly weave or sustain.I know because I kill some of them on a regular basis.

Personally I wish sorc was about streaking and fragging people to death, instead of shieldstacking and mine spamming and blowing up people with no counterplay builds like a total nobrainer ,so that they could realize how much they DON'T know about this game. Buuuut instead zenimax decides to cater to casuals with no skill at all and people with the reaction times of a goldfish.

As for the mobility creep, the actual problem about mobility right now is swift trait(which is basically permanent major expedition for only losing about 2500 stam or magicka, very overpowered actually.) , and this is something any class can also utilize, it doesn't even require sprinting. Yet you're all here talking this is something exclusive to stamina. Look, I know mobility creep is a thing, but stamina is balanced around it. Swift came out of nowhere and took it to a ridicilous place where everyone is speed capped. Complain about that and I will agree %100.

I think most of the sorcs here just know that they don't want to play a class that is fair and on line with everything else. I know how bad some of them play, I would expose them however its not allowed by the forum rules.

Couldn't have said it better. Can I copy and paste this every time a sorc QQ thread pops up?

Illuvatarr · August 2018

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

Okay, for one, I have all 15 character slots filled with a variety of builds. So I've run the gamut of builds in ESO. From my experience stam builds are extremely fast. They can run for longer periods of time, they can execute skills a lot faster than a mag build, and are simply ridiculously fast in all aspects. I sometimes find myself playing on my stam build more now, because my magsorcs are agonizingly slow. I see plenty of stam DKs and NBs executing with 2Her skills that are front loaded with gap closers and very fast stuns and interrupts. Dizzying swing is only one skill that any build has access to, so it's not really relevant in this discussion.

Using your brain in a fight is one thing, but not being able to line up the rotation against speed killers in enough time, is just broke AF game design. Magsorcs do not cast any skills fast enough to provide a kill faster than a stam build, that's why they have to lean on stupid stuff like haunting curse, and crystal frags (basically clench your butthole, wait, and pray damage dealing). I've experienced many times stamblades that can out pace my streak with a gap closer, spammed, and still have enough stam to beat the *** out of me with 5 or 6 skills. I literally have no time to respond with anything. Either that or my PC is taking a *** at every stam attack.

To add to this, is the debilitating mechanics built into sorc class skills that seem to have a lot of intrinsic time restraints. Look at the skill lines most utilized by mages versus stam builds! Sorc skills for instance are >= 1s, if not instant. 2Her, bow, and dual all are <= 1s or instant. In fact looking through the skill trees, I don't see any skills for a viable stambuild that are above 1s. NONE!

Now to address the delay on certain skills in the Sorc skill line:

Daedric curse - no delay from cast to placement, but FFS 3.5 seconds to execute???? How many attacks do you think you could land with a 2Her in 3.5 seconds? Dizzying swing has 1s cast time. Back-loaded time steal.

Crystal Frags - 1s cast time, but really only effective if procced, so unless it does proc the skill is pretty much useless in PvP

Dark Exchange - 1.2s cast time. This is so annoying, because it is a 0.2s wait time to heal, while stams get off a 1s stam skill. It makes it practically useless. Siphoning abilities that provide heals for NBs are instant. Every stam build uses vigor and we know the efficiency of that skill.

Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury - Instant but "If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds". 4 SECONDS!!!?!?!?! RIP. This skill has just started showing about 0.2s delay between cast and strike. You can call me out on it, but I've been running that skill long enough to notice that the delay is present after Wolfhunter patch.

Looking through DK and NB class skills there are a few 1s cast times, but honestly most of the class skills are INSTANT!!! All of DK's and NB's stam morphs are instant casts.

Like I said I was not looking to debate power, but the handicap of time that magsorcs have to put up with in this game. Very few skills that magsorcs utilize are compensated with extra damage to make up for all the time hijacking that goes on in this build. So I am arguing that time is the main factor that is debilitating, and makes for a sub-par build.

Oh yeah, the 3,5 second delay totally makes curse a bad ability, like sub assault right?Cause delayed burst without a cast time isn't the literal best thing in PvP right?

And dark exchange/dark deal, do you realize this is literally battle roar on demand? Complaining for cast time on this ability is simply ridicilous for how rewarding it is. There isn't even a risk involved anymore, just pop an immovable potion/poison, and completely refill your resources while free to move around.

As for C.frags, yes , maybe it does need the stun back, but the cast time on it is fine considering its a ranged spammable with other benefits for slotting it. The wrecking blow for example, is practically garbage in comparission, and if it gets the stun back it would be basically a d.swing with 41 meter range.

I'm not talking for you in particular but of the sorcs crying in this forum damn well knows they don't have the reaction time required to properly play a stamina character. Most of them don't even know how to properly weave or sustain.I know because I kill some of them on a regular basis.

Personally I wish sorc was about streaking and fragging people to death, instead of shieldstacking and mine spamming and blowing up people with no counterplay builds like a total nobrainer ,so that they could realize how much they DON'T know about this game. Buuuut instead zenimax decides to cater to casuals with no skill at all and people with the reaction times of a goldfish.

As for the mobility creep, the actual problem about mobility right now is swift trait(which is basically permanent major expedition for only losing about 2500 stam or magicka, very overpowered actually.) , and this is something any class can also utilize, it doesn't even require sprinting. Yet you're all here talking this is something exclusive to stamina. Look, I know mobility creep is a thing, but stamina is balanced around it. Swift came out of nowhere and took it to a ridicilous place where everyone is speed capped. Complain about that and I will agree %100.

I think most of the sorcs here just know that they don't want to play a class that is fair and on line with everything else. I know how bad some of them play, I would expose them however its not allowed by the forum rules.

Couldn't have said it better. Can I copy and paste this every time a sorc QQ thread pops up?

Ya this comment is garbage. Stamina classes literally destroy mag sorcs in pvp. Quit acting like it isnt the case. Otherwise, *** man up and play one and see for yourself. We know that isnt going to happen dude.

ccmedaddy · August 2018

I do have a magsorc and I still like it for PvP lol. Magsorcs do need get buffed in PvE, I'll give u that much.

Illuvatarr · August 2018

ccmedaddy wrote: »

I do have a magsorc and I still like it for PvP lol. Magsorcs do need get buffed in PvE, I'll give u that much.

Everything about mag sorcs goes against the grain they have taken the game towards. You are either a troll or incredibly obtuse. The class is slow, (even with swift jewelry), cannot remove snares, is forced to wear light armor and equip two staves, must slot 5 or more survivability abilities to deal with ONE person and their dps, their cc is negligible and ineffective, their burst requires precise timing (unlike any stam character who can just gap close and hit a macro), their burst potential is less than other classes because their sustain sucks, streak is penalized yep gap closers and stealth are not with magicka/stamina cost increase, the increased dodge and lowered cost of it means most of their abilities will not hit about 50 percent or more of the time as they are ranged projectiles and they cannot slot two dps sets, drain potions impact this class more than anyone else because every other spell must be a damage shield just to survive (consequently, moreso than any other class, they are utterly reliant on damage shields for pvp, the damage shields only last 6 seconds (which means literally casting it every other spell) and ZOS and whoever they have leading their balancing team are attempting to nerf damage shields further)..... I could go on.

but if you play a mag sorc, you already knew this.

Mintaka5 · August 2018

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Can I copy and paste this every time a sorc QQ thread pops up?

Sure you can but the mere fact that so many magsorcs are QQ (according to your opinion) says to me they are debilitated as far as speed of play is concerned. The only non stam build I see that can run circles around magsorcs are magdks, and they would be able to accomplish that with either their ult leap, or spamming the 2Her gap closer, which is a stamina skill anyhow. Stamina builds are destroying magsorcs, and the responses in this thread have spoken volumes towards that.

P.S. The guy who made an argument saying that Swift trait is available to any class/build, did you mean that it's exclusive to mag builds? If not your point is insubstantial. If already speedy stams can equip it, then that speed would stack, and be relatively faster than magicka builds with the same traits on.

Feanor · August 2018

As for C.frags, yes , maybe it does need the stun back, but the cast time on it is fine considering its a ranged spammable with other benefits for slotting it.

Frags may be a lot of things, but certainly not a ranged spammable.

Priyasekarssk · August 2018

CompM4s wrote: »

Magsorcs are still very good in pvp. The delayed damage from curse allows huge burst potential. They have a good execute for pvp, large shields, good mobility with streak, and dont forget the rune cage meteor combo.

Just go away. Magic sorc is complete garbage. Same *** even class is complete garbage now. Noobs l2p first.

Kadoin · August 2018

As long as absorb magic exists, all magicka classes are kinda garbage compared to stam in this patch and they have been for a while. People think I'm joking when I say you can shut down any magic user once you build enough defense and have absorb magic on, but I'm not. Even the most brain-dead player can find success stacking defense + using absorb magic + offensive set (and now Balorgh is making this worse, thanks ZOS for being short-sighted yet again) on stam. It's stupid. If you don't think its true, go ahead and try that skill. You will be so surprised at how it works, you will never want it off your bar unless you are the type that doesn't like using obviously overpowered garbage.

Most of my bar becomes worthless for the duration of absorb magic and so does light attacking if I have any elemental or magic damage enchants, unless I like healing my opponent. Considering stam costs are lower and sustain on mag chars that aren't NB is garbage, then I'm essentially being double-punished for being a mag char in PvP. Throw negate into the mix, the fact that most magicka abilities are either dodgeable and/or have garbage hitboxes, and you have to wonder if ZOS really has thought about PvP combat balance at all. You know something is wrong when I have to wear STAM enchants or damage shield/weapon damage/weapon damage reduction/ etc. over absorb glyphs because otherwise it would be impossible for me to ever go on the offensive successfully.

So against a stam user, most of my offense is either going to be absorbed, reflected, or dodged. That which isn't (ground AoE, jabs, etc.) has a terrible hitbox and cant really be landed on anyone wearing swift without you predicting their location because the servers don't actually update it correctly. Generating ult means healing my enemy essentially or I have to have enough healing and sacrifice damage to withstand their offense, even though I already had to do twice before: once for sustain and once for enough stam to break free/roll when I have a cost poison on you. Wow, what a great idea of balance! Someone at ZOS must have gotten destroyed by magic users too much, otherwise I can't see why every mag build has to suffer in PvP this patch.

Here's a common offense story:

"Oh, finally gonna kill this guy wearing absorb magic! Yes! ...!" -> accidental light attack -> "Woops, I hit him once with a light attack during the 30 second duration of this skill, he gets back 22% of his HP. Damn....my mag gone now. Oh no, no,no, no, no...!" -> Gets leaped/DBoS -> executioner -> executioner -> executioner ...and if you recover, they simply just have to go on the offense because they know your mag is low and you can't do anything besides prolong death.

I'm not gonna lie, that only happens if I don't block in time. But that doesn't change the fact that having one skill counter nearly ever skill on your bar (including all magic ults besides AoE ones, but it does absorb atronoch lightning attack

) and light attack + heavies + ever magic proc set in the game besides Nerineth and Valkyn, and every magic enchant is obviously a PROBLEM.

What do mag chars gain for this disadvantage? Shields that can easily be destroyed? Heals? I have a DK that can heal 14K after 1 sec of Rally quite reliably, and it can do that in negate!

What's the advantage for mag users? If you are mag char this patch, take pride that you are better than those stam builds

Most of them couldn't use a mag char for 3 seconds.

Kel · August 2018

https://imgur.com/a/XzAhq5o

Because having a ability instant cast and instant hit goes against it being dodgeable.

Galarthor · August 2018

ccmedaddy wrote: »

I do have a magsorc and I still like it for PvP lol. Magsorcs do need get buffed in PvE, I'll give u that much.

Yeah, b/c a PvE-only buff does not reduce your stamina builds OPness in PvP.

Generosity comes easy when there is no price attached to it.

Nicko_Lps · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

As for C.frags, yes , maybe it does need the stun back, but the cast time on it is fine considering its a ranged spammable with other benefits for slotting it.

Frags may be a lot of things, but certainly not a ranged spammable.

Why not?
All classes have a ranged spammable except magsorc
Birds?
Stonefist?
Funnel of health?
Vampires bane+darkflare <---Magica snipe

Nerf that sorc eh?

nryerson1025 · November 2018

Mintaka5 wrote: »

the magsorc is forced to stay out of the fight and can neither effectively fight unless they come out with an insta-execute from range.

this is where you lost me

Illuvatarr · November 2018

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

the magsorc is forced to stay out of the fight and can neither effectively fight unless they come out with an insta-execute from range.

this is where you lost me

My mag Sorc is stronger than ever. Do you have at least 2500 inpen? Are you smart and running empowered ward as opposed to hardened ward? Are you using bound aegis and an ice staff on back bar and the matriarch for heals? Do you have 25k resists for both physical and spell resist?

Mintaka5 · November 2018

nryerson1025 wrote: »

this is where you lost me

Often times I perform better at range on my magsorc, because it takes a little time for heavy hitting melees to realize where I am. Once they do it's game over. Most of the heavy hit ranged attacks in the sorc class skills like frags, and fury are better executed from range, both of which I mentioned were slow to cast, and hit, especially frags. They are useless in a melee situation. To top this off shielding and health casts much slower on a mag build, so if I am trying to cover my ass in melee skirmish it's useless against the excessive speeds of stamina-centric builds, who just murder me in under 2 seconds.

Mintaka5 · November 2018

Illuvatarr wrote: »

My mag Sorc is stronger than ever. Do you have at least 2500 inpen? Are you smart and running empowered ward as opposed to hardened ward? Are you using bound aegis and an ice staff on back bar and the matriarch for heals? Do you have 25k resists for both physical and spell resist?

Yes to everything. I have run variations of this set up, and it was still clumsy and slow feeling.

Vapirko · November 2018

When are people gonna learn that being good isn’t just a big red button when it comes to this or that class. It’s not easier or harder to play either spec, it just depends on your style. People say stamblades are super OP. They’re strong sure, but good luck doing anything more than slinking into the shadows if you don’t know what you’re doing. I’ve tried every class except mag warden/dk and I feel like I can definitevely say that both specs have their strengths. Stamina is in some senses more forgiving but to the people saying just roll around till your ult builds again, well good luck with that. I urge you to try it. I’ve also seen a certain well known mag sorc on PC/NA running sword and board with a pet now and that build is no joke. Just yesterday watched them 1v5 multiple groups. The mag vs Stam bitching is so *** old. Just get over it and stop blaming the opposite spec for your shortcomings. If anything you could talk about specific rock paper scissor matchups like ranged magbalde and magicka dk.

russelmmendoza · November 2018

Your joking right?

Seriously, please tell me your joking.

My magsorc have lots of fun killing in bg.

My stamnb bowganker is not near as good as my magsorc.

Here do this if you can.

2 light mighty chuda. Divines magicka
5 light war maiden. Divines magicka.
3 jewels mothers sorrow. Infused spldmg.
Front mothers sorrow flame infused berserk.
Back mothers sorrow lightning infused berserk.

Frontbar skills.
Haunting curse. Mages wrath. Crystal frag. Critical surge. Boundless storm.
Backbar skills.
Mages wrath. Liquid lightning. Restraining prison. Critical surge. Boundless storm.

For your perusal.

Bergzorn · November 2018

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Frontbar skills.
Haunting curse. Mages wrath. Crystal frag. Critical surge. Boundless storm.
Backbar skills.
Mages wrath. Liquid lightning. Restraining prison. Critical surge. Boundless storm.

Wait, what? Oh, nvm...

Biro123 · November 2018

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Your joking right?

Seriously, please tell me your joking.

My magsorc have lots of fun killing in bg.

My stamnb bowganker is not near as good as my magsorc.

Here do this if you can.

2 light mighty chuda. Divines magicka
5 light war maiden. Divines magicka.
3 jewels mothers sorrow. Infused spldmg.
Front mothers sorrow flame infused berserk.
Back mothers sorrow lightning infused berserk.

Frontbar skills.
Haunting curse. Mages wrath. Crystal frag. Critical surge. Boundless storm.
Backbar skills.
Mages wrath. Liquid lightning. Restraining prison. Critical surge. Boundless storm.

For your perusal.

Terrible advice.