Mag-Sorcs are slow and debilitated in a PvP environment!

Mintaka5

I've been wanting to address this for sometime now, in that mag-sorcs are simply not optimal class-builds at all compared to most others in this game. This is not an argument about either how OP or not they are, but really about how there is a struggle of time with mag-sorcs and casting abilities.

I started to notice this in last patch (Wolfhunter), where my Endless Fury, seems to have lost its instant cast. I tried it in PvE to see if maybe it was a lag issue, but honestly, there is a gap of time between cast and strike, that didn't exist before. Even with crystal frag procced, it seems to have a slight delay as well. Why are the devs creating pseudo-instant casts? If something is instant it should be immediate.

It is bad enough that more than 50% of sorc skills are long in cast time, but to create so many gaps in time, and to fail to compensate for things like extremely fast stam builds, with long-reaching gap closers and melee weapons that seem to reach beyond 8 meters, the magsorc is forced to stay out of the fight and can neither effectively fight unless they come out with an insta-execute from range. Everything seems faster than a mag-sorc in my experience. There seems to be a huge gap between mag-sorc and most other builds that seem to be able to execute multiple skills and attacks in the same window of time that it takes a mag-sorc to deliver even one attack or skill. Add shielding to the mix and you add even more time between attacks, for defense, and less time for offense (really the only way to survive PvP as mag-sorc is excessive shield stacking or health regen with little to no sustained damage).

I really enjoy longer fights, but it seems in PvP if you're not an elite player, you're forced to play something that has speed (stamina) and/or heavy damage (NBs/[mag]DKs), to even be a viable competitor. Mag-sorcs are basically designed to be on the damage side of support, like a healer without the heals. In a PvP fight they are slow AF.

Ragnarock41

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

ak_pvp

Magsorcs are still and will always be viable. Don't lie,. In mid-large groups they are quite valuable, and decent pugmashers. Like every other class they are now at the mercy of nightblades though. And yeah that sucks, blame the devs. Complaining about shields is eh, they melt under pressure just like everything else bar cloak but work so much better than being tanky/rolly in smaller encounters defenses with the way the meta is.

The delayed burst is exactly what magsorc is about, not sure the complains on that but as for the "clunk" yes. Its clunky, reach has some throwing delay and its super telegraphed, rune is/was mildly delayed, fury has the hand raise and fire before it actually hits the target. Frags is rather slow and because of the way it procs only on front bar it means switching from heavy def-off is a pain

As for actual speed, imo it needs a heavy buff, its better than the nothing classes, but worse than all stam and magblade. Its super clunky too with problems on uneven surfaces and the root fall down hills.

Emma_Overload

OP, I feel your pain! Please read the thread I started to discuss the great difficulty Sorcs have landing our spells against melee players: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391301/exploit-can-we-talk-about-that-shady-thing-that-stamina-melee-builds-do/p1

Stibbons

Try playing magplar or magden and then come back to tell us is sorc so bad.

Feanor

Stibbons wrote: »

Try playing magplar or magden and then come back to tell us is sorc so bad.

Do you have one of these as main char or is this just the usual derailing response?

Ender1310

Endless fury having no reaction time from 41 ft away is ridiculous. Yes it's an execute but it used to be an instant kill. Why is this okay? I don't understand. Most executes require that you be in the face of the person and that they are targeted. For instance killer blade. I have to in you to land it. If you are moving or dodge rolling and I cant reticle you it won't even fire. Much easier to target someone from 41 ft away and press a button for your instant kills. There should be some kind of delay and you should be able to roll out of it. Counter play. Why don't you like this?

Mureel

Stop doing that thing please, where you're all 'ya think that's hard, do this/play this!'

It's sorcs airing sorc concerns - and if your class is so hard or whatever that you need to fling it at people as some kind of bait, then take your own advice and roll sorc.

There are reasons why you don't and we all know it, so please stop doing that.

It doesn't help and it's just baiting.

Irylia

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

Stam is incredibly easy

usmguy1234

Ender1310 wrote: »

Endless fury having no reaction time from 41 ft away is ridiculous. Yes it's an execute but it used to be an instant kill. Why is this okay? I don't understand. Most executes require that you be in the face of the person and that they are targeted. For instance killer blade. I have to in you to land it. If you are moving or dodge rolling and I cant reticle you it won't even fire. Much easier to target someone from 41 ft away and press a button for your instant kills. There should be some kind of delay and you should be able to roll out of it. Counter play. Why don't you like this?

Sorc is a ranged class... thus needs a ranged execute. How is this hard to understand?

Mintaka5

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

Okay, for one, I have all 15 character slots filled with a variety of builds. So I've run the gamut of builds in ESO. From my experience stam builds are extremely fast. They can run for longer periods of time, they can execute skills a lot faster than a mag build, and are simply ridiculously fast in all aspects. I sometimes find myself playing on my stam build more now, because my magsorcs are agonizingly slow. I see plenty of stam DKs and NBs executing with 2Her skills that are front loaded with gap closers and very fast stuns and interrupts. Dizzying swing is only one skill that any build has access to, so it's not really relevant in this discussion.

Using your brain in a fight is one thing, but not being able to line up the rotation against speed killers in enough time, is just broke AF game design. Magsorcs do not cast any skills fast enough to provide a kill faster than a stam build, that's why they have to lean on stupid stuff like haunting curse, and crystal frags (basically clench your butthole, wait, and pray damage dealing). I've experienced many times stamblades that can out pace my streak with a gap closer, spammed, and still have enough stam to beat the *** out of me with 5 or 6 skills. I literally have no time to respond with anything. Either that or my PC is taking a *** at every stam attack.

To add to this, is the debilitating mechanics built into sorc class skills that seem to have a lot of intrinsic time restraints. Look at the skill lines most utilized by mages versus stam builds! Sorc skills for instance are >= 1s, if not instant. 2Her, bow, and dual all are <= 1s or instant. In fact looking through the skill trees, I don't see any skills for a viable stambuild that are above 1s. NONE!

Now to address the delay on certain skills in the Sorc skill line:

Daedric curse - no delay from cast to placement, but FFS 3.5 seconds to execute???? How many attacks do you think you could land with a 2Her in 3.5 seconds? Dizzying swing has 1s cast time. Back-loaded time steal.

Crystal Frags - 1s cast time, but really only effective if procced, so unless it does proc the skill is pretty much useless in PvP

Dark Exchange - 1.2s cast time. This is so annoying, because it is a 0.2s wait time to heal, while stams get off a 1s stam skill. It makes it practically useless. Siphoning abilities that provide heals for NBs are instant. Every stam build uses vigor and we know the efficiency of that skill.

Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury - Instant but "If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds". 4 SECONDS!!!?!?!?! RIP. This skill has just started showing about 0.2s delay between cast and strike. You can call me out on it, but I've been running that skill long enough to notice that the delay is present after Wolfhunter patch.

Looking through DK and NB class skills there are a few 1s cast times, but honestly most of the class skills are INSTANT!!! All of DK's and NB's stam morphs are instant casts.

Like I said I was not looking to debate power, but the handicap of time that magsorcs have to put up with in this game. Very few skills that magsorcs utilize are compensated with extra damage to make up for all the time hijacking that goes on in this build. So I am arguing that time is the main factor that is debilitating, and makes for a sub-par build.

Mintaka5

Ender1310 wrote: »

Endless fury having no reaction time from 41 ft away is ridiculous. Yes it's an execute but it used to be an instant kill. Why is this okay? I don't understand. Most executes require that you be in the face of the person and that they are targeted. For instance killer blade. I have to in you to land it. If you are moving or dodge rolling and I cant reticle you it won't even fire. Much easier to target someone from 41 ft away and press a button for your instant kills. There should be some kind of delay and you should be able to roll out of it. Counter play. Why don't you like this?

Yeah? But what about all the time it takes to burn a stam build down to execute stage? Let's consider time up-front not on the backend. I am not debating power here.

Didgerion

Mag sorcs are still very good (not best by any-means ) in No-CP environment.
You can still 2 shot new players,
Defensive rune still puts reliable pressure on the enemy's stamina and saves you from gank attempts (not so reliable anymore due to shuffle dodge).
You mobility is on par with other classes (providing streak is on your bar)

The class is garbage in CP environment:
The mobility of stamina builds is crazy there, your streak is just a resource draining tool.
The mitigation the builds pull out there is crazy - you cannot dent anything there even if you go full glass-canon.
Rune-Cage, and Defensive-Rune is a joke there as they don't do damage and it basically gives enemies a 80% cheaper stamina skills.

I think the game is quite nicely balanced now ... in No-CP Campaign

Maybe it is time to get rid of CPs....It is stupid to balance things by the same formula in two worlds where physics is totally different.

Kikke

#NerfNB #NerfDKs or rather #GiveFragStunBack!

Dalsinthus

I'm just not seeing a problem with magic sorcs under performing.

I have years of experience with a Stamblade. My K/D ratio with that class in battlegrounds is usually around 9 to 5, with loads of assists. I've played a mag sorc off and on for the same time, but do not have nearly the pvp experience with it. Yesterday I played a few bg with the sorc and my K/D ratios on the most recent three games were 17/4, 19/5, and 20/5. In other words double the amount of kills for about the same number of deaths. That's in a class where I don't have the skills and key positions nearly as well memorized and my knowledge of the kit is not nearly as deep. I'm having similar experience in Cyrodiil.

pieratsos

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

Dunno what u are talking about. Playing stamina in open world is vastly superior than any magicka build. If your only source of dmg is still dizzying then the issue isnt really with stamina but with ur build.

Mintaka5

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I'm just not seeing a problem with magic sorcs under performing.

I have years of experience with a Stamblade. My K/D ratio with that class in battlegrounds is usually around 9 to 5, with loads of assists. I've played a mag sorc off and on for the same time, but do not have nearly the pvp experience with it. Yesterday I played a few bg with the sorc and my K/D ratios on the most recent three games were 17/4, 19/5, and 20/5. In other words double the amount of kills for about the same number of deaths. That's in a class where I don't have the skills and key positions nearly as well memorized and my knowledge of the kit is not nearly as deep. I'm having similar experience in Cyrodiil.

Anecdotal. I infrequently do BGs and for me it's a complete melt-fest. I'd be lucky to pull off a single kill with my magsorc. And every other player seems to be in hyper-speed play.

Strider__Roshin

What a dumb thread. Everyone knows magblades run Cripple over Debilitate

Dalsinthus

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I'm just not seeing a problem with magic sorcs under performing.

I have years of experience with a Stamblade. My K/D ratio with that class in battlegrounds is usually around 9 to 5, with loads of assists. I've played a mag sorc off and on for the same time, but do not have nearly the pvp experience with it. Yesterday I played a few bg with the sorc and my K/D ratios on the most recent three games were 17/4, 19/5, and 20/5. In other words double the amount of kills for about the same number of deaths. That's in a class where I don't have the skills and key positions nearly as well memorized and my knowledge of the kit is not nearly as deep. I'm having similar experience in Cyrodiil.

Anecdotal. I infrequently do BGs and for me it's a complete melt-fest. I'd be lucky to pull off a single kill with my magsorc. And every other player seems to be in hyper-speed play.

So my experience is anecdotal, but yours somehow is not?

Lieblingsjunge

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I'm just not seeing a problem with magic sorcs under performing.

I have years of experience with a Stamblade. My K/D ratio with that class in battlegrounds is usually around 9 to 5, with loads of assists. I've played a mag sorc off and on for the same time, but do not have nearly the pvp experience with it. Yesterday I played a few bg with the sorc and my K/D ratios on the most recent three games were 17/4, 19/5, and 20/5. In other words double the amount of kills for about the same number of deaths. That's in a class where I don't have the skills and key positions nearly as well memorized and my knowledge of the kit is not nearly as deep. I'm having similar experience in Cyrodiil.

Anecdotal. I infrequently do BGs and for me it's a complete melt-fest. I'd be lucky to pull off a single kill with my magsorc. And every other player seems to be in hyper-speed play.

Then you do it wrong. Very, very wrong. In almost every BG, where there is a Sorc.. You'll see the Sorc spam executes on everyone and steal killing blows. Then you have other teammates doing 1mill + damage, and have like 5 kills and 25 assists, whereas the sorc has 500k damage done tops, and 30 kills and 5 assists.

Sorc execute is the strongest in the game, by far, especially in a closed-space where you usually can see every enemy. And you already know which classes you are dealing with prior to match-start.

I can agree that Sorc took a heavy hit. But it was justified,when you compare it to other classes. And the delayed burst from Sorc, if done properly, really can kill people. You just, finally, need brains to play a sorc and plan your burst. Randomly flinging skills at someone isn't gna kill'm anymore.

Edit: Although, I agree that stamina classes in open-world is superior to any magicka class(except magblade) at the moment. Especially stamsorcs and stamblades are really getting dominant. Also StamDKs and Stamdens seem more frequent recently. Stamplar too, but they're still rare.

Raammzzaa

...waiting for this to inevitably evolve into a nerf sorc thread!

Priyasekarssk

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

First play and win a dueling tournament with magic sorc. Then come and teach others how to play magic sorc. Even sypher & kodi cannot do it , when at its prime. You are a better player. Just prove it.

Feanor

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I'm just not seeing a problem with magic sorcs under performing.

I have years of experience with a Stamblade. My K/D ratio with that class in battlegrounds is usually around 9 to 5, with loads of assists. I've played a mag sorc off and on for the same time, but do not have nearly the pvp experience with it. Yesterday I played a few bg with the sorc and my K/D ratios on the most recent three games were 17/4, 19/5, and 20/5. In other words double the amount of kills for about the same number of deaths. That's in a class where I don't have the skills and key positions nearly as well memorized and my knowledge of the kit is not nearly as deep. I'm having similar experience in Cyrodiil.

Anecdotal. I infrequently do BGs and for me it's a complete melt-fest. I'd be lucky to pull off a single kill with my magsorc. And every other player seems to be in hyper-speed play.

Then you do it wrong. Very, very wrong. In almost every BG, where there is a Sorc.. You'll see the Sorc spam executes on everyone and steal killing blows. Then you have other teammates doing 1mill + damage, and have like 5 kills and 25 assists, whereas the sorc has 500k damage done tops, and 30 kills and 5 assists.

Sorc execute is the strongest in the game, by far, especially in a closed-space where you usually can see every enemy. And you already know which classes you are dealing with prior to match-start.

I can agree that Sorc took a heavy hit. But it was justified,when you compare it to other classes. And the delayed burst from Sorc, if done properly, really can kill people. You just, finally, need brains to play a sorc and plan your burst. Randomly flinging skills at someone isn't gna kill'm anymore.

Edit: Although, I agree that stamina classes in open-world is superior to any magicka class(except magblade) at the moment. Especially stamsorcs and stamblades are really getting dominant. Also StamDKs and Stamdens seem more frequent recently. Stamplar too, but they're still rare.

@Lieblingsjunge

Well Lieb, you and I both now that it has nothing to do with Wrath/Fury and everything to do with how badly designed the scoring system is. Tying scoring to killing blows is the easiest way to do it, and that’s why ZOS did it instead of basing scoring on damage done.

The picture would shift away heavily from Sorcs being top dogs in BGs if damage done was the dominant factor for scoring. Also it’s a Deathmatch exclusive thing - I don’t think there are Sorcs who own the other modes, especially Chaos Ball and CTR. That’s the arena for the uber tanky builds, and Sorc burst just doesn’t cut it there while being absolutely useless as objective carrier (Streak is disabled).

I mean, do you really die to Sorc burst now after the RC nerf? I don’t believe you do.

Biro123

People always talk about the pro's but never the cons.. Yes it's a good execute - I'm not dismissing that - but you also have to take into account its downsides.

How often do you use, say, executioner when your target isn't in execute range? Unless a noob, you don't.

But how often do you use wrath with your opponent NOT dropping to execute range ? Way too often.

The thing with wrath is that you use it in the hope that you get your opponent below 20% health in the next 4 seconds. All too often that doesn't happen - and that time wasted casting wrath could instead have been a crushing shock, which maybe would have put them in execute range..

This all ties in with the sorc's toolkit. You cast wrath then basically have 3 seconds to try to get them to execute range. Last patch that included a reliable cc which also did damage, making it happen much more often.

Now, it is instead an unreliable cc that doesn't do damage. This means either losing one damaging cd out of those 3 seconds (so you now only have 2 abilities to get them to execute range), or losing the cc in favour of another damaging ability. Either makes it MUCH less likely that they get to 20%.

And if you don't execute, then you need to spend another 2 seconds to re-shield or shield n heal before you then cast your next wrath to be ready for your next 3 seconds damage window.. That's 3 seconds for your opponent to recover, putting you almost back to square 1.

This is the problem with sorcs as a class - why their burst either kills or is useless. How can that be balanced? The burst is either at a point where it doesn't kill and can be recovered from - or where it instantly kills. And its a VERY fine line - which changes from patch to patch and also as the fotm changes..

Imo, it should be that it doesn't kill (high health targets) but can't be recovered from before the next one - but that would either have to involve a complete change to the game with everyone having more health/weaker heals. OR sorc having a way to reduce their ability to recover from a burst... defile or dots.. One of the reasons many decent sorcs were asking the cage damage to be changed to a dot.

TL;DR Wrath is a good execute but overall, reduces your sustained damage

Nicko_Lps

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

What exactly makes stamina harder than magsorc? Class-ability/bash/dawnbreaker while you charge your ulti rolling around a keep tower healing is hard you mean? Or the perma 15% dmg reduction you always have on magsorcs and they have to use a monster set to apply minor maim..
The only spec that is actually harder on ESO while stamina mode is stamblade and in PVE, not in PVP.

PS
Dont reply with: Im melee sorcs kite me i have to chase, streak has a cost increase and alot less distance while stamina gapclosers dont.

Jabbs_Giggity

Mintaka5 wrote: »

I started to notice this in last patch (Wolfhunter), where my Endless Fury, seems to have lost its instant cast. I tried it in PvE to see if maybe it was a lag issue, but honestly, there is a gap of time between cast and strike, that didn't exist before. Even with crystal frag procced, it seems to have a slight delay as well. Why are the devs creating pseudo-instant casts? If something is instant it should be immediate.

In a PvP fight they are slow AF.

I'm sorry, but this is just ignorant...I main a Magplar and you want to talk about long cast times?!
1. 90% of skill line is channels which leave you open to taking DIRECT damage from: Not being able to block, not being able to LA weave, not being able to D/R, open to CC's, etc.
2. Magsorc's skills ALL STACK for a BIG burst of damage.
3. If you're in PVP with a Magsorc and not running Rune Cage, well you are behind the curve. 5 Second stun + Damage + long range...enough said.
4. The only other class that can compete with a Sorc's mobility is NB's, maybe Warden with wings active. DK's and Templars are about 1/5th of the mobility to a Magsorc.
5. You have ALL Ranged attacks with multiple CC's, high burst and SHIELDS, not to mention a lingering (lazy) execute that usually times up with your passive execute.
6. Bolt Escape and Boundless Storm literally give you a get out of dodge free card...

Sorry for the rant, but people who complain about Magsorc's are either lazy or incompetent. I do feel the frustration of poor game play performance in general, though.

Zodiac_

Sorry but just the title of this topic indicates you have L2P issues...

Biro123

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

I started to notice this in last patch (Wolfhunter), where my Endless Fury, seems to have lost its instant cast. I tried it in PvE to see if maybe it was a lag issue, but honestly, there is a gap of time between cast and strike, that didn't exist before. Even with crystal frag procced, it seems to have a slight delay as well. Why are the devs creating pseudo-instant casts? If something is instant it should be immediate.

In a PvP fight they are slow AF.

I'm sorry, but this is just ignorant...I main a Magplar and you want to talk about long cast times?!
1. 90% of skill line is channels which leave you open to taking DIRECT damage from: Not being able to block, not being able to LA weave, not being able to D/R, open to CC's, etc.
2. Magsorc's skills ALL STACK for a BIG burst of damage.
3. If you're in PVP with a Magsorc and not running Rune Cage, well you are behind the curve. 5 Second stun + Damage + long range...enough said.
4. The only other class that can compete with a Sorc's mobility is NB's, maybe Warden with wings active. DK's and Templars are about 1/5th of the mobility to a Magsorc.
5. You have ALL Ranged attacks with multiple CC's, high burst and SHIELDS, not to mention a lingering (lazy) execute that usually times up with your passive execute.
6. Bolt Escape and Boundless Storm literally give you a get out of dodge free card...

Sorry for the rant, but people who complain about Magsorc's are either lazy or incompetent. I do feel the frustration of poor game play performance in general, though.

I kind of think you are behind the curve on cage..

OP does have a point though - in terms of activation times. Let me try to explain what I mean..

Every animation has a start and an end. And at some point during that animation, it actually fires the skill. On anything with a cast time, that point is right near the end of the animation.

For most instant stam abilities, it's right at the start. For many instant mag abilities, it's right at the start. This 'activation point' governs when you can ani-cancel. Cancel before and the skill doesn't fire. Cancel after and you're good.

But many sorc abilities don't seem to have their activation point right at the beginning - especially shields, I've noticed. Its one of the reasons when I see incoming and am unshielded, I'll often dodge rather than shield - because the shield is just too slow.. (in contrast on my NB, there are cases where cloak would be quick enough to avoid the damage, where KNOW a shield would not)..

He's not talking about mobility or channelled abilities as you seem to base your reply on.

MinarasLaure

Stibbons wrote: »

Try playing magplar or magden and then come back to tell us is sorc so bad.

To be honest, there is no way a sorc can beat a magden in a 1v1 fight.
Actually no wait, there are two cases where a sorc could win:
- magden is not using shimmering shield
- sorc has both pets out

I main a magden in pvp leeching + sloads and all I slot are defensive skills + dots + shimmering + poisons.
The only sorcs able to beat me are the ones using pets.

Ninja edit: I'm talking about magsorcs, stamsorcs are another story obviously

Prabooo

Is it just me... or most post titles seem like its a joke?

Ragnarock41

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

If you think its so much easier to be a stamina player, give it a shot. You'll be back in your sorc in less than a week.

The fact is :magsorcs now have to actually use their brains like the rest of us when they want a kill. No more guaranteed one shots on squishies. You think swift mobility is ridicilous? Welcome to the reality. It has been like that since summerset. Think your life as a magsorc is hard? Try using dizzying swing. Land at least 2 of your 10 swings on a swift stamblade and I will apologize for doubting you.

Don't know about the delays you are talking about though.

Okay, for one, I have all 15 character slots filled with a variety of builds. So I've run the gamut of builds in ESO. From my experience stam builds are extremely fast. They can run for longer periods of time, they can execute skills a lot faster than a mag build, and are simply ridiculously fast in all aspects. I sometimes find myself playing on my stam build more now, because my magsorcs are agonizingly slow. I see plenty of stam DKs and NBs executing with 2Her skills that are front loaded with gap closers and very fast stuns and interrupts. Dizzying swing is only one skill that any build has access to, so it's not really relevant in this discussion.

Using your brain in a fight is one thing, but not being able to line up the rotation against speed killers in enough time, is just broke AF game design. Magsorcs do not cast any skills fast enough to provide a kill faster than a stam build, that's why they have to lean on stupid stuff like haunting curse, and crystal frags (basically clench your butthole, wait, and pray damage dealing). I've experienced many times stamblades that can out pace my streak with a gap closer, spammed, and still have enough stam to beat the *** out of me with 5 or 6 skills. I literally have no time to respond with anything. Either that or my PC is taking a *** at every stam attack.

To add to this, is the debilitating mechanics built into sorc class skills that seem to have a lot of intrinsic time restraints. Look at the skill lines most utilized by mages versus stam builds! Sorc skills for instance are >= 1s, if not instant. 2Her, bow, and dual all are <= 1s or instant. In fact looking through the skill trees, I don't see any skills for a viable stambuild that are above 1s. NONE!

Now to address the delay on certain skills in the Sorc skill line:

Daedric curse - no delay from cast to placement, but FFS 3.5 seconds to execute???? How many attacks do you think you could land with a 2Her in 3.5 seconds? Dizzying swing has 1s cast time. Back-loaded time steal.

Crystal Frags - 1s cast time, but really only effective if procced, so unless it does proc the skill is pretty much useless in PvP

Dark Exchange - 1.2s cast time. This is so annoying, because it is a 0.2s wait time to heal, while stams get off a 1s stam skill. It makes it practically useless. Siphoning abilities that provide heals for NBs are instant. Every stam build uses vigor and we know the efficiency of that skill.

Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury - Instant but "If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds". 4 SECONDS!!!?!?!?! RIP. This skill has just started showing about 0.2s delay between cast and strike. You can call me out on it, but I've been running that skill long enough to notice that the delay is present after Wolfhunter patch.

Looking through DK and NB class skills there are a few 1s cast times, but honestly most of the class skills are INSTANT!!! All of DK's and NB's stam morphs are instant casts.

Like I said I was not looking to debate power, but the handicap of time that magsorcs have to put up with in this game. Very few skills that magsorcs utilize are compensated with extra damage to make up for all the time hijacking that goes on in this build. So I am arguing that time is the main factor that is debilitating, and makes for a sub-par build.

Oh yeah, the 3,5 second delay totally makes curse a bad ability, like sub assault right?Cause delayed burst without a cast time isn't the literal best thing in PvP right?

And dark exchange/dark deal, do you realize this is literally battle roar on demand? Complaining for cast time on this ability is simply ridicilous for how rewarding it is. There isn't even a risk involved anymore, just pop an immovable potion/poison, and completely refill your resources while free to move around.

As for C.frags, yes , maybe it does need the stun back, but the cast time on it is fine considering its a ranged spammable with other benefits for slotting it. The wrecking blow for example, is practically garbage in comparission, and if it gets the stun back it would be basically a d.swing with 41 meter range.

I'm not talking for you in particular but of the sorcs crying in this forum damn well knows they don't have the reaction time required to properly play a stamina character. Most of them don't even know how to properly weave or sustain.I know because I kill some of them on a regular basis.

Personally I wish sorc was about streaking and fragging people to death, instead of shieldstacking and mine spamming and blowing up people with no counterplay builds like a total nobrainer ,so that they could realize how much they DON'T know about this game. Buuuut instead zenimax decides to cater to casuals with no skill at all and people with the reaction times of a goldfish.

As for the mobility creep, the actual problem about mobility right now is swift trait(which is basically permanent major expedition for only losing about 2500 stam or magicka, very overpowered actually.) , and this is something any class can also utilize, it doesn't even require sprinting. Yet you're all here talking this is something exclusive to stamina. Look, I know mobility creep is a thing, but stamina is balanced around it. Swift came out of nowhere and took it to a ridicilous place where everyone is speed capped. Complain about that and I will agree %100.

I think most of the sorcs here just know that they don't want to play a class that is fair and on line with everything else. I know how bad some of them play, I would expose them however its not allowed by the forum rules.