How's Sorc, Nightblade, and warden healing after the patch? (murkmire)

code65536 · October 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

EVERY magblade that had a clue was running refreshing, twisting simply was not worth running, even from a dps perspective.

Then you have no clue how magblades play in PvE.

Okay, I'll admit, last patch I exclusively used Refreshing. Why? Because I was in vCR most of the time, because I'm too casual to worry about the DPS difference between Refreshing and Twisting, and because I'm too miserly to pay for remorphs every time I did something that wasn't vCR.

But there are a lot of people--particularly those who have a more competitive mindset than me--who would make a trip to the respec shrine before vCR to remorph into Refreshing, and then remorph it back into Twisting when they did something else.

Also, prior to Summerset, the DPS difference between Twisting and Refreshing was a bit bigger. Twisting received a nerf in Summerset, and the narrowed gap meant that some lazy people like me stopped caring.

But to say that "every" magblade used Refreshing is just outright wrong. There was a reason for Twisting. A lot of people chose Twisting. Maybe they could've nerfed Refreshing a little to restore the kind of gap that existed prior to Summerset. But of course, ZOS knows not the meaning of a gentle touch--they just went nuclear on Refreshing.

GreenHere · October 2018

Would this be an appropriate thread to suggest that Funnel Health apply Minor Lifesteal on targets?

I've been thinking about submitting this idea for a while, and now I guess it needs it after being adjusted so heavily...

ZOS_Bill · October 2018

A few comments have been removed from this thread for some back and forth baiting. Even when disagreeing with someone, it is important to remain civil and to keep your comments constructive.

ascan7 · October 2018

Honestly my nightblade healer feels irrelevant now.
With the nerf to Strife and without the damage from Refreshing Path, he is so weak.
I have even problems killing PvE mobs. He really doesn't have any damage. Why playing him them? If i wanted a 100% pure group healer with 0 dps, there are surely better choices than nighblade.

FrancisCrawford · October 2018

My views on nightblade healing are in line with the comments above.

Path is now a terrible skill in either morph. It is not a skill I intend to use ever again. On my magblades that haven't respecced yet, I take it off the bar.
Funnel Health is now a bad skill. Rather than spam a skill that is bad for damage plus bad for healing, I'd rather use a good healing skill some of the time and a good damage skill at other times. It is not a morph I intend to ever use again. On my magblades that haven't respecced yet, I take it off the bar.
Swallow Soul, whether or not it's a good skill for other purposes, adds nothing to healing.

There are times one queues with a lame healer, e.g. for the annual Random Dungeon event, or just to gain Undaunted rep. But I can't see any reason to actually feel good about nightblade healing.

Gargath · October 2018

I love the change for wardens, I guess it's now more desired to have a warden healer in pvp group.
Like I was recently in Cyrodiil, standing on top of inner keep and healing a lot of people down around the flags, while also applying 45% major defile with Corrupting Pollen to enemies of the Pact. Managed to save countless lives and we defended the keep. Thx to ZOS magden healer is great again

.

FrancisCrawford · October 2018

Sorcerer healing for me boils down to:

Start with a dual-pet DPS build.
Take at least 3 important DPS skills off the bars -- certaiinly Volatile Familiar x2 and, since it's gone, also Daedric Prey.
Add Mutagen (which procs SPC), Elemental Drain (because that's a healer's job), and one or more other healing-related skills determined by context.
Adjust the ultimate skills to match the context.

DPS sorcerer is less appealing that it used to be, so healing sorcerer is less appealing that it was too. I can no longer think of situations where it's more appealing than warden or of course templar as a healing choice. In the past, some of the toughest healing I did was on a sorcerer. I doubt that will be as true in the future.

Emma_Overload · October 2018

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Worse, because of the nerf to Healing Ward. Healing Ward needs to have a much shorter proc delay, like 3 seconds instead of 6.

Since it's a damage shield, I don't think they will shorten it's duration any more than it is. However, I just think it would be better to return the initial Heal as a HoT for the 6 second duration of the shield at a reduced value.

It would function like this:
- Apply Damage Shield + Healing Tick
- Healing Tick
- Healing Tick
- Healing Tick
- Healing Tick
- Remove Healing Ward and apply the remaining shield strength as burst heal

If they added a decent HOT to Healing Ward, that would be awesome!

weedgenius · October 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Major Expedition on Path just means that people are getting out of the heal quicker, being completely counter intuitive of what you'd want a Healing skill to do that it's just not worth running it at all anymore.

ROFL how did no one at ZOS think of this??

aeowulf · October 2018

weedgenius wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Major Expedition on Path just means that people are getting out of the heal quicker, being completely counter intuitive of what you'd want a Healing skill to do that it's just not worth running it at all anymore.

ROFL how did no one at ZOS think of this??

I'm honestly waiting NB fear to also be given a small AE dot, that doesn't tick until any mobs are well clear.

db0ssman · October 2018

I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned this before now, but one difference about ritual of retribution and refreshing path is that RoR also gives its caster minor mending while standing in the aoe (on top of snaring enemies as already mentioned). Refreshing path technically gives its caster major ward/resolve, which is nice because a dead healer can't heal, but probably less important than the free increase in healing. I think the comparison to the two are apt, since you're comparing one ability that does aoe damage/heals, makes enemies slower, and adds a bunch of utility at the cost of less tics and an ability that did aoe damage/heals, makes allies faster, with faster tics, but adds no group utility and an extremely limited area.

I mostly agree with what people have said about funnel health and refreshing path being dead morphs, and the NB healer 'losing its identity' but not getting anything to replace it. Due to IRL obligations stacking up, I'm probably going to be stepping away from the game for a while, so I won't pretend like these changes are causing me to take the break, but I had to completely rework my NB healer to make it viable in dungeons. I'm still trying to get used to the new play style of mostly being a dps with off-heals and figuring out how to make that work, and so I'm going to be far less likely to hop into the game once in a while to run some random dungeons. It will probably affect me playing in that sense.

RogueShark · November 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Sorcerer healing for me boils down to:
Start with a dual-pet DPS build.

Take at least 3 important DPS skills off the bars -- certaiinly Volatile Familiar x2 and, since it's gone, also Daedric Prey.

Add Mutagen (which procs SPC), Elemental Drain (because that's a healer's job), and one or more other healing-related skills determined by context.

Adjust the ultimate skills to match the context.

DPS sorcerer is less appealing that it used to be, so healing sorcerer is less appealing that it was too. I can no longer think of situations where it's more appealing than warden or of course templar as a healing choice. In the past, some of the toughest healing I did was on a sorcerer. I doubt that will be as true in the future.

This hits it exactly on the nose.
There is pretty much no reason to have a sorc healer over a templar or warden, who bring SO much more via buffs for the group with class abilities/passives. Sorc used to at least have overload bar for extra abilities/synergies to offer the group (orbs, liquid lightning, altar, time stop or encase if you wanted).

trashcannot · November 2018

Sorc is pretty much useless as dps in pve now.

SirMewser · November 2018

Tasear wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

Eldritch Mender says;
Twilight Matriarch (ofc).

Bound Aegis (…)

Inner Light (My slots :'( !!!)

Dark Deal (What?)

Bolt Escape (Nice joke.)

Now use all resto staff abilities.

What really erks me;
I guess I cast dark deal (should be dark conversion ) for the moments I hate myself to provide everyone minor prophecy.

I guess I could slot more abilities on my overload bar... Oh right.

Minor intellect? Why would I use empowered ward on a pet in group content now? The skill doesn't even protect them in overland anymore.

Absorption Field? The cost... Just for the heal or a bad minor prophecy uptime. Forget about the stun in PvE, it doesn't even work on most mobs nor all bosses.

This class is a mess and when it was functioning, it was still outright boring regardless if you're a healer or a DPS (simply little flavor and few key presses thanks to toggles and passive "skills").

There are no useful passives for healing besides the passive "skills" occupying slots.

I deleted my Sorc healer.
Need a break from the game.

Have you tried any different builds for Sorc healer? Also I know one Sorc healer who loves bolt escape (not I) but they find it adds more moblity.

Sorry for the late response, but yes Tasear, your Sorc healer build.

st_yan · November 2018

If you don't return Refreshing Path as it was I'm leaving this game. ZOS, are you stupid to have done these changes. You *** nerfed shields and have taken heaing fron NB!!!! Are you *** nuts!!!! Return or I cancel my subscription and leave!

karekiz · November 2018

***Note: My thoughts - Not saying each is good or bad, but for me I see healers as:

Each class should have some identity attached.

Templars have access to early and easy cleasnes.

Wardens have low cost ult heals and focus on AoE placement.

Sorcs have a class heal burst through pet that deals passive damage.

Nightblade <?> - I can't really think of much. Pre-change it was passive damage correct? Now the sorc has more "passsive" damage than the nightblade? I could be wrong however as I *do not* player a NB healer.

DK <?> - I guess shields/group buff?

ccfeeling · November 2018

karekiz wrote: »

***Note: My thoughts - Not saying each is good or bad, but for me I see healers as:

Each class should have some identity attached.

Templars have access to early and easy cleasnes.

Wardens have low cost ult heals and focus on AoE placement.

Sorcs have a class heal burst through pet that deals passive damage.

Nightblade <?> - I can't really think of much. Pre-change it was passive damage correct? Now the sorc has more "passsive" damage than the nightblade? I could be wrong however as I *do not* player a NB healer.

DK <?> - I guess shields/group buff?

The price of being TOP DOG DPS

From Liko 6M result recently ,

Stamden : 63k
Stamplar : 63k
Stamdk : 61k
Stamsorc : 61k
Stamnb : no update but 58k 2 months ago , I believe he could hits 63k without problem .

In PVE , each class DPS result is getting close , but NB cannot fulfill other roles ideally with this patch .

Ermiq · November 2018

Warden healer here. Everything is pretty much the same as prior to Murkmire. It's even better in some aspects (constant Toughness and such).
Cost decrease of Deep Fissure now allows me to use it more frequently and still getting magicka regen. Prior to Murkmire I had to use heavy attacks to get some magicka back when I used the bugs.
So, I'm satisfied with Warden.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2018

Eremith wrote: »

Warden healer here. Everything is pretty much the same as prior to Murkmire. It's even better in some aspects (constant Toughness and such).
Cost decrease of Deep Fissure now allows me to use it more frequently and still getting magicka regen. Prior to Murkmire I had to use heavy attacks to get some magicka back when I used the bugs.
So, I'm satisfied with Warden.

You use deep fissure on a healer?

Ermiq · November 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Warden healer here. Everything is pretty much the same as prior to Murkmire. It's even better in some aspects (constant Toughness and such).
Cost decrease of Deep Fissure now allows me to use it more frequently and still getting magicka regen. Prior to Murkmire I had to use heavy attacks to get some magicka back when I used the bugs.
So, I'm satisfied with Warden.

You use deep fissure on a healer?

Yep. It's very usefull on trash packs because it applies AoE Major Breach to all mobs in the pack at once and has very good damage numbers. When my groupmates are at full HP I'm helping them doing 7-9K DPS on boss fights, it's not that much, but still it worths something.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2018

Eremith wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Warden healer here. Everything is pretty much the same as prior to Murkmire. It's even better in some aspects (constant Toughness and such).
Cost decrease of Deep Fissure now allows me to use it more frequently and still getting magicka regen. Prior to Murkmire I had to use heavy attacks to get some magicka back when I used the bugs.
So, I'm satisfied with Warden.

You use deep fissure on a healer?

Yep. It's very usefull on trash packs because it applies AoE Major Breach to all mobs in the pack at once and has very good damage numbers. When my groupmates are at full HP I'm helping them doing 7-9K DPS on boss fights, it's not that much, but still it worths something.

What do your bars look like?

Ermiq · November 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Warden healer here. Everything is pretty much the same as prior to Murkmire. It's even better in some aspects (constant Toughness and such).
Cost decrease of Deep Fissure now allows me to use it more frequently and still getting magicka regen. Prior to Murkmire I had to use heavy attacks to get some magicka back when I used the bugs.
So, I'm satisfied with Warden.

You use deep fissure on a healer?

Yep. It's very usefull on trash packs because it applies AoE Major Breach to all mobs in the pack at once and has very good damage numbers. When my groupmates are at full HP I'm helping them doing 7-9K DPS on boss fights, it's not that much, but still it worths something.

What do your bars look like?

Frontbar with fire or lightning staff (supporting and DPS):
1. Annulement (for dangerous situations when something gone wrong)
2. Mushrooms (buff teammates and burst heal when they suddenly get hit)
3. Lotus Blossom (selfbuff and passive heal while LA weaving)
4. Deep Fissure
5. EleDrain.
Ult. Forest.

Backbar with restoration staff:
1. Healing Ward (I use the same buttons for all shields)
2. Springs. (burst heal, again the same button as mushrooms)
3. Rapid Regen.
4. circle with growing flowers
5. Netch.
Ult. from Winter's Embrace skill line (+8% magicka on the heal bar is very good, also it helps a lot on big packs of mobs).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2018

@Eremith no warhorn or combat prayer?

Ermiq · November 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Eremith no warhorn or combat prayer?

I'm not a PvP player so I don't have Warhorn yet. I don't even got Vigor unlocked yet.
Prayer... Well, it's pretty useless in PUGs, 'cause you know those guys are like burning chickens, they're running around here and there, and very often they won't even let me to get back to buff them. When I go back off them, they're going back off me.

So, since I ususally play with PUGs, I decided I don't need Prayer.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2018

Eremith wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Eremith no warhorn or combat prayer?

I'm not a PvP player so I don't have Warhorn yet. I don't even got Vigor unlocked yet.
Prayer... Well, it's pretty useless in PUGs, 'cause you know those guys are like burning chickens, they're running around here and there, and very often they won't even let me to get back to buff them. When I go back off them, they're going back off me.
So, since I ususally play with PUGs, I decided I don't need Prayer.

you say you do not use combat prayer because "'cause you know those guys are like burning chickens", yet you still use Enchanted Growth, could you square that up for me?

Ermiq · November 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Eremith no warhorn or combat prayer?

I'm not a PvP player so I don't have Warhorn yet. I don't even got Vigor unlocked yet.
Prayer... Well, it's pretty useless in PUGs, 'cause you know those guys are like burning chickens, they're running around here and there, and very often they won't even let me to get back to buff them. When I go back off them, they're going back off me.
So, since I ususally play with PUGs, I decided I don't need Prayer.

you say you do not use combat prayer because "'cause you know those guys are like burning chickens", yet you still use Enchanted Growth, could you square that up for me?

Enchanted Growth is mostly for a tank, I use it as an additional insurance, just in case.
Also I throw the Growth with Springs together when I know a lot of HPS will be needed on some area and when people are standing in a heap. For instance, I see the boss is going to use some AoE and I see people are likely won't get out off the red zone, so I throw Growth and Springs to that area. So, in addition to Springs, people in the red are getting Growth's synergie and additional burst heal when Growth is expired.
Another scenario. Tank keeps daedroths in Banished Cells 2 final boss or ghosts in Crypt of Hearts 2 final boss. Damage dealers are fighting the boss somewhere in another place. I give the Growth to the tank, so I know he will be safe for 6 seconds and I can keep my eyes on DDs and the boss.
I like this skill, it's cheap, great heal power, and also I like the visuals.

iCaliban · November 2018

trashcannot wrote: »

Sorc is pretty much useless as dps in pve now.

This is far from true. In difficult dungeons/arenas or trials, sorc dps is just fine. Pet sorcs are actually in a good spot there. Though they could use a slight dps buff to compete with 50k mageblades.

PrinceShroob · November 2018

My main character is a sorcerer healer -- functionally, I feel like very little has changed, except that I wonder if I should change Healing Ward to Ward Ally. I primarily used Healing Ward to catch group members who were close to death (or perhaps shield stamina-using characters who can't use their own shields), but without the initial heal, it's much less useful for that purpose.

Iskiab · November 2018

I'm a nightblade healer and dps. My thoughts on the patch is they aren't good changes. I've stopped using any NB abilities as a healer - 0. We're basicly an empty class with a restoration staff.

I like healing and have gotten to the point where I contribute to the group most by increasing my dps so I'm continuing to heal dungeons, but for new nightblade healers I imagine most will reroll. Here are some suggestions and comments:

What appeals to me most about nightblades:
- invisibility
- being an aggressive healer and contributing a lot to damage

Here are some suggestions for changes assuming the changes were to reduce magblade group healing:
- change power drain completely, I don't see anyone running it and 20% weapon damage sort of blows. Maybe some other sort of group utility
- change refreshing path so it also does damage again. If magblade dps were using it for raid healing then the issue was it did too much damage, not that it did damage and healed.

Iskiab · November 2018

* correction. I was wrong, I do use one nightblade skill. I use have the soul harvest ultimate on my resto bar so I get faster aggressive warhorns on my backbar, so I have soul harvest but don't use it.