mob levels: can anyone explain?

randomkeyhits · October 2018

For all those "progression" advocates, something to chew on.

Under the continual progression system when a DLC is dropped and the new higher level gear is available you are instantly "out of date" and all your gear is now second best or as some see it, useless. You are weak vs the content at first but as you get the new gear you get stronger until once fully geared up you are now stronger than the DLC content.

Numbers are not correct but in principle when a DLC drops you are at 95% of the DLC level and you can gear up to 105%

Thats it, the numbers may get bigger but you are never actually any more powerful against your relevant content, at your level the progression is an illusion, sure you can look back at old content from a year or so ago and can now destroy it but it gives you nothing, you'll probably be able to skip all mechanisms and get a new speed run record, whoopee-do.........

starkerealm · October 2018

randomkeyhits wrote: »

For all those "progression" advocates, something to chew on.

Under the continual progression system when a DLC is dropped and the new higher level gear is available you are instantly "out of date" and all your gear is now second best or as some see it, useless. You are weak vs the content at first but as you get the new gear you get stronger until once fully geared up you are now stronger than the DLC content.

Numbers are not correct but in principle when a DLC drops you are at 95% of the DLC level and you can gear up to 105%

Thats it, the numbers may get bigger but you are never actually any more powerful against your relevant content, at your level the progression is an illusion, sure you can look back at old content from a year or so ago and can now destroy it but it gives you nothing, you'll probably be able to skip all mechanisms and get a new speed run record, whoopee-do.........

Also part of why World/Server Firsts are such a big issue in other MMOs. It's not that you cleared the content, you cleared the content at the hardest possible threshold. With the next content drop, it'll be easier.

This isn't a factor with ESO, nearly as much. There's some power creep from CP, but right now, but, with where we're at star-wise, there isn't that much we can do right now to push our damage further if we're already at 810. Stuff like Maw of Lorkhaj is easier today than it was when it first launched, but more recent content like Halls of Fabrication or Cloudrest are only easier due to familiarity.

MakeMeUhSamich · October 2018

I’m so glad I experienced the story pre-1 Tam. It’s just a hot mess now.

#BuffSorcs

Valrien · October 2018

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

I’m so glad I experienced the story pre-1 Tam. It’s just a hot mess now.

#BuffSorcs

#PleaseRevertBackToBeforePatch1.2

EQBallzz · November 2018

randomkeyhits wrote: »

For all those "progression" advocates, something to chew on.

Under the continual progression system when a DLC is dropped and the new higher level gear is available you are instantly "out of date" and all your gear is now second best or as some see it, useless. You are weak vs the content at first but as you get the new gear you get stronger until once fully geared up you are now stronger than the DLC content.

Numbers are not correct but in principle when a DLC drops you are at 95% of the DLC level and you can gear up to 105%

Thats it, the numbers may get bigger but you are never actually any more powerful against your relevant content, at your level the progression is an illusion, sure you can look back at old content from a year or so ago and can now destroy it but it gives you nothing, you'll probably be able to skip all mechanisms and get a new speed run record, whoopee-do.........

I do think that is somewhat true. It is a matter of perspective. That being said..when you out-level content and it becomes trivial is exactly the sort of thing that gives the feeling of progression even if it's meaningless. Conversely, if you are always leveling and "progressing" but the content is always basically the same difficulty because of scaling you can get the feeling of not going anywhere.

Not really advocating for one or the other because both have pros and cons. I think the content scaling as a whole is probably better because it's more flexible but I dunno.

lagrue · November 2018

EQBallzz wrote: »

randomkeyhits wrote: »

For all those "progression" advocates, something to chew on.

Under the continual progression system when a DLC is dropped and the new higher level gear is available you are instantly "out of date" and all your gear is now second best or as some see it, useless. You are weak vs the content at first but as you get the new gear you get stronger until once fully geared up you are now stronger than the DLC content.

Numbers are not correct but in principle when a DLC drops you are at 95% of the DLC level and you can gear up to 105%

Thats it, the numbers may get bigger but you are never actually any more powerful against your relevant content, at your level the progression is an illusion, sure you can look back at old content from a year or so ago and can now destroy it but it gives you nothing, you'll probably be able to skip all mechanisms and get a new speed run record, whoopee-do.........

I do think that is somewhat true. It is a matter of perspective. That being said..when you out-level content and it becomes trivial is exactly the sort of thing that gives the feeling of progression even if it's meaningless. Conversely, if you are always leveling and "progressing" but the content is always basically the same difficulty because of scaling you can get the feeling of not going anywhere.

Not really advocating for one or the other because both have pros and cons. I think the content scaling as a whole is probably better because it's more flexible but I dunno.

Agreed. I think the best thing they could do is implement difficulty modifiers the same way Bethesda does it in the main series - nerfing outgoing damage and buffing incoming damage - optionally, of course. This could take the form of status effects and wouldn't really need a full game overhaul or anything. Then we'd have the best of both worlds for everybody.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · November 2018

Swomp23 wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

I came back recently, too. I was VR14 when I left so was at CP140 when i restarted. I created a new character and whited out Summerset and Auridon, and had just started Grahtwood when I got the final main story quest. I hadn't even been paying attention to my armor and weapons and noticed after i beat Molag Bal that I was wearing random green dropped armor between level 28-32 and my only deaths the entire way through had been from falling.

Everything is sort of a joke, now.

Sadly true. However, every time we try to make a thread about how we would like something like a difficulty slider for questing, or some kind of debuff to make overland content somewhat meaningful, those threads are flooded by a truckload people calling us elitist scum and telling us to run the content naked with no cp if we want some challenge. Or to go back to dungeons and trials, that we have plenty of challenging content.

It's like if they don't understand that we'd like questing to be available to all sorts of people wanting all sorts of different experiences. RPGs are built around character progression, where is the progression if we have to remove our gear and cp to feel a slight sense of immersion while questing? Because frankly, killing the last boss of a zone questline with 3 attacks is the opposite of an immersing experience.

I mean, I get why ZOS did this. By the way, this change came in the One Tamriel update. ZOS explained that they wanted all players to be able to group and play together, wathever level they were. One dev told a very touching story about how he couldn't play with his son because they were different levels. IMO, this is a very good reason. It also solved the problems of half your quests becoming pointless because you outleveled them. All in all, they made the game more like it was in Oblivion and Skyrim, where the mobs scaled to you, with the exception of some bosses in Skyrim (that damned frost troll on your way to High Wrothgar, or some dragon priests that were of a fixed level).

The main difference is that in those single player RPGs, you had acces to a difficulty slider to keep content interesting. You were a casual player that enjoyed those quest for the story? Slide this cursor all the way to the left and enjoy the game. Were you someoe that enjoy games because of the challenge and progression feeling RPGs provide? Slide that mf all the way to the right, or start at the middle and slowly push it to harder mode as your character progress. Everybody could find something for their enjoyment.

Pesonnally, I think this is the main thing that is lacking in this game. An interesting quest mode for all character levels AND FOR EVERY TYPE OF PLAYER, wether you play for the story or the challenge. Of course, people will always say that other MMO don't do that. But imo, it would be the occasion for ZOS to stand out from the competition.

Then people would want the dificulty slider added to instanced content such as vet dlc dungeon and vet trial so they can apreciate the content too and not just a part of the community

zaria · November 2018

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

I’m so glad I experienced the story pre-1 Tam. It’s just a hot mess now.

#BuffSorcs

Regarding the quests, yes starting in chapter zones is an mess. Also that the prophet pops at once you exit the harborage.
It should been an cooldown, that is even if its nice to farm this quests for skilpoints.

RavenSworn · November 2018

I don't get it, traditional mmos with strict vertical progression are not in any way the way to go.

Sure you see progression but it nullifies a lot of the older content when a new one comes up. While the world might seem bigger, the actual active zones will just be one or two zones out of a possible tens. Not only that, you segregate the new players with the veterans and would, at times, be the only one questing in that particular zone. Getting a sense of pregression is all well and good but for the longevity of the game, it doesn't really cut it.

Before 1T came about we had veteran zones. You would start with your faction zones, start vet lvls 1-6 for the next faction, then 7-12 for the last faction. There were further vet lvls with lower and upper crag lorn. I lvled 4 chars up till vet 16, and you know what? During the times I was levelling, in the whole of Eastmarch, I was the only one active in the zone. I had no one else talking in zone chat and to ask for a group to start a dungeon. Bear in mind, because this is a vet zone, you don't have low levels running all over or doing quests. It was just fellow vet 10s.

They called it a 'dead' game. 1T revived it. Like literally. Suddenly you have hundreds of players in areas that you wouldn't usually see. Suddenly when you chat in zone, you'd see questions by new players, you'd have group invs, you have sales being done... You had 'life'. Imagine in every zone, in every main city, you had the same convo that you would have had in previous 'quest and level hubs'.

In terms of levelling, take it this way. It's like real life. You go through the levels with no prior knowledge, you gain lessons by going through questing, by going through dungeons. Those lessons you gain you put in play by skill points, by gear that you find. When initially you ride with 3 wheels, now you ride with two. Does that mean you got weaker? No, you got better. But the assistance you had previously are now being taken away. Will you fall initially? Of course! With further training though you can even ride with no hands. Perhaps without the need to see. (I'm exaggerating here but you get my point)

The journey to cp 160 is not even long, you would be able to gain enough skill points for a main and off wep while having spares for those 'just in case' moments. You have nothing to stop you from making the game easier or harder for you, which is why I don't agree with people wanting difficulty sliders or what not because that will mean, in more ways, segregation again.

I have guildies who still have problems with crag lorn. They can't for the life of them, solo dungeons. They can't and won't do vma because it's just a waste of personal time and undue frustrations. Yet I still have guildies who yearns to be the best in leader boards, who wants HM in every single dungeon they run, who wants to deal the best damage possible. Having both perspective in the same guild and game just makes it even more awesome because new players now have options to work with the players they want to emulate.

And that to me is what 1T is all about.

EQBallzz · November 2018

RavenSworn wrote: »

I don't get it, traditional mmos with strict vertical progression are not in any way the way to go.

Sure you see progression but it nullifies a lot of the older content when a new one comes up. While the world might seem bigger, the actual active zones will just be one or two zones out of a possible tens. Not only that, you segregate the new players with the veterans and would, at times, be the only one questing in that particular zone. Getting a sense of pregression is all well and good but for the longevity of the game, it doesn't really cut it.

Before 1T came about we had veteran zones. You would start with your faction zones, start vet lvls 1-6 for the next faction, then 7-12 for the last faction. There were further vet lvls with lower and upper crag lorn. I lvled 4 chars up till vet 16, and you know what? During the times I was levelling, in the whole of Eastmarch, I was the only one active in the zone. I had no one else talking in zone chat and to ask for a group to start a dungeon. Bear in mind, because this is a vet zone, you don't have low levels running all over or doing quests. It was just fellow vet 10s.

They called it a 'dead' game. 1T revived it. Like literally. Suddenly you have hundreds of players in areas that you wouldn't usually see. Suddenly when you chat in zone, you'd see questions by new players, you'd have group invs, you have sales being done... You had 'life'. Imagine in every zone, in every main city, you had the same convo that you would have had in previous 'quest and level hubs'.

In terms of levelling, take it this way. It's like real life. You go through the levels with no prior knowledge, you gain lessons by going through questing, by going through dungeons. Those lessons you gain you put in play by skill points, by gear that you find. When initially you ride with 3 wheels, now you ride with two. Does that mean you got weaker? No, you got better. But the assistance you had previously are now being taken away. Will you fall initially? Of course! With further training though you can even ride with no hands. Perhaps without the need to see. (I'm exaggerating here but you get my point)

The journey to cp 160 is not even long, you would be able to gain enough skill points for a main and off wep while having spares for those 'just in case' moments. You have nothing to stop you from making the game easier or harder for you, which is why I don't agree with people wanting difficulty sliders or what not because that will mean, in more ways, segregation again.

I have guildies who still have problems with crag lorn. They can't for the life of them, solo dungeons. They can't and won't do vma because it's just a waste of personal time and undue frustrations. Yet I still have guildies who yearns to be the best in leader boards, who wants HM in every single dungeon they run, who wants to deal the best damage possible. Having both perspective in the same guild and game just makes it even more awesome because new players now have options to work with the players they want to emulate.

And that to me is what 1T is all about.

I think the point about scaling allowing for players of varied levels to group is the biggest benefit but I don't really buy the often used point that the previous progression system somehow nullified older content. I mean in a game like this that is heavily driven by quest content why would you even want to go back to a zone after you completed it? It's not like with the scaling I'm heading back to Bleakrock Isle again for anything..ever.

IMO the classic progression system was merely focusing you on relevant content which I didn't really have a problem with. There were also other systems that allowed for different level characters to play together in the old progression type systems like in EQ2 where you could mentor a lower level player and get scaled down to their level.