mob levels: can anyone explain?

OrdoHermetica

Valrien wrote: »

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

One Tamriel was also what gave this game a second breath of life. Maybe the way they handled it leaves something to be desired, but pre-One Tamriel ESO wasn't doing so great, so... I'd say it wasn't a mistake conceptually.

doomette

EQBallzz wrote: »

Those are the exact two mobs I was thinking of. I remember both being pretty challenging on my NB because my survivability was kind of low but I got through them with a bit of effort. IIRC Doshia was particularly tough for me as a bow NB because of how the room was set up and how little room there was. I didn't have as much touble with Gutsripper but it was still pretty hard at the intended level.

Ugh, same. My very first character was a bosmer NB and boy that fight inspired some colorful and creative swears from me.

Jhalin

Leveling up makes you weaker in this game

It’s a poor design choice to make a lvl10 char so much stronger baseline than a max level char

EQBallzz

Jhalin wrote: »

Leveling up makes you weaker in this game

It’s a poor design choice to make a lvl10 char so much stronger baseline than a max level char

I don't know how I feel about it tbh but in a certain way it does sort of make sense but it's just the inverse of how it usually works. Normally when starting out it's easier because the mob difficulty is lower and as you level you need more armor/skills to tackle harder and harder content. In this system it's backwards but sort of has the same effect. Starting out is still easier but not because of easy content..rather because you are buffed up artificially and get weened off your buff until you are on par with the content.

It's all a bit odd and unconventional. I haven't played in this long enough to have a good or bad feeling about it honestly but I do worry that the lacking difficulty could make the "leveling" a bit boring and tedious over time. Originally, you had to be on your toes while leveling because groups of mobs could wipe the floor with you. I haven't felt like I was in danger at all so far. The focus of leveling now seems to be the story so I guess I will see how far that takes me..

SpAEkus

Can anyone do a quick check and confirm that the base stats boosting actually ends at L50 and not CP160.

If anyone has a L50/CP10 character, can you remove all gear and un-assign all CP and attributes/skills/passives and check their base stats from character sheet.

I only have CP160+ characters left and the base stats for one of them are:

CP734 - None Applied
Breton - No passives Applied
Mundus - no H-M-S Stats boosted
No gear - No Skills - No Skill passives

MAX Magicka - 9550 MAG recovery - 637
MAX Health - 10493 Health Recovery - 339
MAX Stamina - 9550 Stamina Recovery - 565

I had always thought that the base stats/gear boosting stopped at CP159 right before you were at CP160 parity, even if the final boost was small.

Valrien

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

One Tamriel was also what gave this game a second breath of life. Maybe the way they handled it leaves something to be desired, but pre-One Tamriel ESO wasn't doing so great, so... I'd say it wasn't a mistake conceptually.

It was a mistake conceptually though. It completely killed progression, and that was the goal...to close the gaps between players

max_only

Valrien wrote: »

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

It’s better this way. I run with people who can’t do base game vet dungeons at max cp. And they are the big spenders.

Sorry not sorry.

Zos has crunched the numbers, the people who want a challenge don’t splurge on pretty stuff as much as “casuals” who just want to jump into an amusement park.

The overland is plenty difficult for people who aren’t forum warriors like us.

Valrien

max_only wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

It’s better this way. I run with people who can’t do base game vet dungeons at max cp. And they are the big spenders.

Sorry not sorry.

Zos has crunched the numbers, the people who want a challenge don’t splurge on pretty stuff as much as “casuals” who just want to jump into an amusement park.

The overland is plenty difficult for people who aren’t forum warriors like us.

The sad thing is that the players who want a challenge are actually bigger spender than the casuals most of the time.

But this isn't really what ANYONE wanted...the casuals you speak of just don't care enough to raise too much of a fuss about it.

Even a traditional Elder Scrolls game has progression, which is what ZOS intended for One Tamriel to be...a more traditional Elder Scrolls game. In doing so they ruined progression (1-50 is entirely meaningless. You're as strong as you will ever be at level 1, in terms of the overland content) AND also wrecked a lot of the story continuity within the base game.

For example, in Messages Across Tamriel, all of the alliance leaders recognize you as this big badass despite you having just gotten off of the boat (since, canonically, the Main Story quests are done in secret with no one else having any knowledge of it)

So they also did create massive amounts of plotholes that do very much affect the casual playerbase

Kiralyn2000

In what modern MMO has overland been 'difficult' for veteran players, let alone 'progression' content? Most MMOs I've played in the last 10 years, all the Pro Players grumble about how they have to speedrun through the boring/pointless questing & leveling, so that they can get to the Endgame (raiding, vet dungeons, ranked pvp) where the actual game starts.

Valrien

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

In what modern MMO has overland been 'difficult' for veteran players, let alone 'progression' content? Most MMOs I've played in the last 10 years, all the Pro Players grumble about how they have to speedrun through the boring/pointless questing & leveling, so that they can get to the Endgame (raiding, vet dungeons, ranked pvp) where the actual game starts.

Most of the veterans remember the launch of the game when the entire game was fun and challenging, not just the endgame

EQBallzz

Valrien wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

It’s better this way. I run with people who can’t do base game vet dungeons at max cp. And they are the big spenders.

Sorry not sorry.

Zos has crunched the numbers, the people who want a challenge don’t splurge on pretty stuff as much as “casuals” who just want to jump into an amusement park.

The overland is plenty difficult for people who aren’t forum warriors like us.

The sad thing is that the players who want a challenge are actually bigger spender than the casuals most of the time.

But this isn't really what ANYONE wanted...the casuals you speak of just don't care enough to raise too much of a fuss about it.

Even a traditional Elder Scrolls game has progression, which is what ZOS intended for One Tamriel to be...a more traditional Elder Scrolls game. In doing so they ruined progression (1-50 is entirely meaningless. You're as strong as you will ever be at level 1, in terms of the overland content) AND also wrecked a lot of the story continuity within the base game.

For example, in Messages Across Tamriel, all of the alliance leaders recognize you as this big badass despite you having just gotten off of the boat (since, canonically, the Main Story quests are done in secret with no one else having any knowledge of it)

So they also did create massive amounts of plotholes that do very much affect the casual playerbase

I never really did get why people hated on the original system. It never seemed that bad to me. Yes, you had to go through each faction in a linear fashion but at least it made some sort of logical sense, had progression and that is how the game was designed. I wouldn't have had an issue if they had designed the game to be "open" from the start (like it is now) but then the quests and progression would have been designed around that to make logical sense. It seems like now it's in a weird limbo.

As for the difficulty I think others have mentioned a difficulty slider and that seems like it makes the most sense. If the difficulty now is really just all the same except low levels get buffed up artificially to the appropriate level it seems like it shouldn't be that difficult to put in a segmented slider that diminishes the power of the buff in stages like 75%, 50% 25% etc..They could even tie some achievements to harder difficulty levels and/or have some unique rewards like mounts for leveling on a harder difficulty.

Anotherone773

SpAEkus wrote: »

Can anyone do a quick check and confirm that the base stats boosting actually ends at L50 and not CP160.

If anyone has a L50/CP10 character, can you remove all gear and un-assign all CP and attributes/skills/passives and check their base stats from character sheet.

I only have CP160+ characters left and the base stats for one of them are:

CP734 - None Applied
Breton - No passives Applied
Mundus - no H-M-S Stats boosted
No gear - No Skills - No Skill passives

MAX Magicka - 9550 MAG recovery - 637
MAX Health - 10493 Health Recovery - 339
MAX Stamina - 9550 Stamina Recovery - 565

I had always thought that the base stats/gear boosting stopped at CP159 right before you were at CP160 parity, even if the final boost was small.

It stops at level 50. Ive leveled 3 accounts and CP10 to CP160 suck.

EQBallzz

OK, so how does this change effect harvesting? Harvesting nodes used to be in the appropriate zones based on level. Are all nodes just mixed up in all zones now or is it still segregated by the old levels?

starkerealm

Jhalin wrote: »

Leveling up makes you weaker in this game

It’s a poor design choice to make a lvl10 char so much stronger baseline than a max level char

Not quite. The stat pool will be slightly larger than a level 50 CP10, but, the overall combat efficiency will be significantly lower. So you're tougher, but you won't do as much damage, even if you know what you're doing (in most cases.)

Linaleah

you still need to gather skill points. you still need to level skill lines and morphs. unless you decide to just copy someone else's build, part of progression is figuring out how you want to play, what build you want to go with.

the main difference is progression is now lateral, rather then vertical and to be honest, lateral progression fells a heck of a lot more elder scrolls like than what this game was before. I'm in a camp of "I love one tamriel" to be honest, its what got me to come back to the game for good. ability to go anywhere, explore anything - is amazing. I don't like being restricted to specific zones only. and given that Blizzard now implemented something very similar, if not as all encompassing in scope (its expansion restricted, but within any given expansion or two expansions at the time - you can just go to any zone you want, and while level display is showing you as "leveling" and mobs level up with you, its quite literally mechanically almost the same as going from zone to zone in one tamriel.) I'd say that its something majority of gamers tend to prefer to linear restrictive upward progression.

edited to add, I'm not entirely sure exactly how scaling works, but I've noticed that under lvl 50 - my hitpoints might be significantly high, but my damage is significantly lower. the moment I hit 50, even if I didn't upgrade any gear.. my health drops way WAY down, while my damage goes up.

Linaleah

EQBallzz wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

It’s better this way. I run with people who can’t do base game vet dungeons at max cp. And they are the big spenders.

Sorry not sorry.

Zos has crunched the numbers, the people who want a challenge don’t splurge on pretty stuff as much as “casuals” who just want to jump into an amusement park.

The overland is plenty difficult for people who aren’t forum warriors like us.

The sad thing is that the players who want a challenge are actually bigger spender than the casuals most of the time.

But this isn't really what ANYONE wanted...the casuals you speak of just don't care enough to raise too much of a fuss about it.

Even a traditional Elder Scrolls game has progression, which is what ZOS intended for One Tamriel to be...a more traditional Elder Scrolls game. In doing so they ruined progression (1-50 is entirely meaningless. You're as strong as you will ever be at level 1, in terms of the overland content) AND also wrecked a lot of the story continuity within the base game.

For example, in Messages Across Tamriel, all of the alliance leaders recognize you as this big badass despite you having just gotten off of the boat (since, canonically, the Main Story quests are done in secret with no one else having any knowledge of it)

So they also did create massive amounts of plotholes that do very much affect the casual playerbase

I never really did get why people hated on the original system. It never seemed that bad to me. Yes, you had to go through each faction in a linear fashion but at least it made some sort of logical sense, had progression and that is how the game was designed. I wouldn't have had an issue if they had designed the game to be "open" from the start (like it is now) but then the quests and progression would have been designed around that to make logical sense. It seems like now it's in a weird limbo.

As for the difficulty I think others have mentioned a difficulty slider and that seems like it makes the most sense. If the difficulty now is really just all the same except low levels get buffed up artificially to the appropriate level it seems like it shouldn't be that difficult to put in a segmented slider that diminishes the power of the buff in stages like 75%, 50% 25% etc..They could even tie some achievements to harder difficulty levels and/or have some unique rewards like mounts for leveling on a harder difficulty.

becasue it didn't feel like elder scrolls. it felt like generic MMO clone.

now it feels more like Elder scrolls. it still has progression. its just lateral.

we also have discussed ad nausiem of why just a slider in shared zones will not work. becasue as long as you are playing in the same zone as people who are not using the slider - either people will cheese the difficulty for better rewards, by tagging mobs and then having their more powerful friends kill them.. or people who genuinely want difficulty - will get frustrated, when someone without a debuff on comes along and one shots the mobs they are working on.

much like how people every once in a while get upset when they are trying to deliberately solo some world boss for some personal challenge, and someone comes along randomly, joins in and removes much of it. the ONLY way higher difficulty gameplay will work if they go back to veteran zones. and correctly if I'm wrong, but didn't they remove those becasue player base was too spread out and people couldn't play together even when they wanted to?

Ratzkifal

In the old system pvp and pve below level 50 didn't go well together. Leveling in pvp meant less pve content to enjoy due to leveled zones. Now with the scaled zones everything isn't challenging either but at least it's not as trivial as it was with the old system when outleveled. And the way resource nodes got changed made gathering easier for everyone.

Linaleah

EQBallzz wrote: »

OK, so how does this change effect harvesting? Harvesting nodes used to be in the appropriate zones based on level. Are all nodes just mixed up in all zones now or is it still segregated by the old levels?

to answer this question, harvesting scales based on both your personal level and your crafting level. so for example, if you are lvl 35, but your crafting is still on jute/iron/maple - half the materials you'll see are going to be rank 1 and half the materials you'll see will be whatever rank you get around 35. in every zone. to assist with certain intermediary mats being harder to find, whenever you complete a daily crafting writ - you will get a box of 25 of a corresponding mat to profession - at rank 1, its always rank 1 mats (which makes doing rank one writs self supporting, as you get back more then you spend), at higher rank - its usually random type 1 rank or more bellow your actual crafting rank. hope this makes sense.

basically, getting enough materials to craft gear for your own level is much less of a pain now /shudders in memory of running around the same zone back and forth, trying to find enough dwarven ore.

SpAEkus

Linaleah wrote: »

you still need to gather skill points. you still need to level skill lines and morphs. unless you decide to just copy someone else's build, part of progression is figuring out how you want to play, what build you want to go with.

the main difference is progression is now lateral, rather then vertical and to be honest, lateral progression fells a heck of a lot more elder scrolls like than what this game was before. I'm in a camp of "I love one tamriel" to be honest, its what got me to come back to the game for good. ability to go anywhere, explore anything - is amazing. I don't like being restricted to specific zones only. and given that Blizzard now implemented something very similar, if not as all encompassing in scope (its expansion restricted, but within any given expansion or two expansions at the time - you can just go to any zone you want, and while level display is showing you as "leveling" and mobs level up with you, its quite literally mechanically almost the same as going from zone to zone in one tamriel.) I'd say that its something majority of gamers tend to prefer to linear restrictive upward progression.

edited to add, I'm not entirely sure exactly how scaling works, but I've noticed that under lvl 50 - my hitpoints might be significantly high, but my damage is significantly lower. the moment I hit 50, even if I didn't upgrade any gear.. my health drops way WAY down, while my damage goes up.

Hit points yes, but Mag/Sta as well? Which is why I asked earlier if anyone had some actual base numbers on a low CP L50 character. To remove any other factors that could account for boost or no boost.

Skills and spells work off mag/sta pools , but even if they drop, your skills are still much higher at that point to compensate?

Meaning damage either should have also dropped with a lower sta/mag pool or those didn't drop as well or as far?

That also assumes that you didn't already apply earned CP on that character before L50 to see actual base vs boosted numbers?

Linaleah

SpAEkus wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

you still need to gather skill points. you still need to level skill lines and morphs. unless you decide to just copy someone else's build, part of progression is figuring out how you want to play, what build you want to go with.

the main difference is progression is now lateral, rather then vertical and to be honest, lateral progression fells a heck of a lot more elder scrolls like than what this game was before. I'm in a camp of "I love one tamriel" to be honest, its what got me to come back to the game for good. ability to go anywhere, explore anything - is amazing. I don't like being restricted to specific zones only. and given that Blizzard now implemented something very similar, if not as all encompassing in scope (its expansion restricted, but within any given expansion or two expansions at the time - you can just go to any zone you want, and while level display is showing you as "leveling" and mobs level up with you, its quite literally mechanically almost the same as going from zone to zone in one tamriel.) I'd say that its something majority of gamers tend to prefer to linear restrictive upward progression.

edited to add, I'm not entirely sure exactly how scaling works, but I've noticed that under lvl 50 - my hitpoints might be significantly high, but my damage is significantly lower. the moment I hit 50, even if I didn't upgrade any gear.. my health drops way WAY down, while my damage goes up.

Hit points yes, but Mag/Sta as well? Which is why I asked earlier if anyone had some actual base numbers on a low CP L50 character. To remove any other factors that could account for boost or no boost.

Skills and spells work off mag/sta pools , but even if they drop, your skills are still much higher at that point to compensate?

Meaning damage either should have also dropped with a lower sta/mag pool or those didn't drop as well or as far?

That also assumes that you didn't already apply earned CP on that character before L50 to see actual base vs boosted numbers?

I'm not sure about low CP character. my experience is with CP distributed, but since it was distributed both before AND after hitting lvl 50, I think it still applies. and I'm also not sure if the actual numbers for stam/magika change. I just can see immediate difference to how much damage/healing my skills AND light/heavy attacks do before and after - as in, things immediately start dying faster, and my combat metrics show dps increase without doing anything different. its minor, but its there - even when comparing a character that stays in upgraded armor (usually my healers) - with scaling, output is just lowever, vs character at cp 160, in cp 160 gear (not minmaxed and mostly blues, so comparable to gear I usualy wear while leveling). if I had any more character slots left and desire to level another alt, I would test it, but I've gotten to the point where all my characters on a server i consistently play on are lvl 50. and I really don't care to test this on EU or whatnot. sorry.

Gatviper

I've noticed that players below CP 160 seem to get scaled up to that, but the gear which drops for them from mobs, is actually usually at their level, otherwise I have no other explanation to sometimes getting drops below CP 160 for me when doing group dungeons, with sometimes lower-level players.
Having said that, doing group dungeons on Vet difficulty with players below 300+CP can always be fun. Not so much because it's going smooth, but because of those very low players dying all the time, cause something like 122 CP and 810 CP is a world of difference in survivability + dps, but many are not aware of that.

SpAEkus

@Linaleah

Yeah sure, I really wish we could be discussing with actual real data but like you I have no way to get another L50/Cp10 character w/o another account.

I'll see if I can get anyone on Live to do a test and I'll offer to pay for their respec and CP resets plus a tip.

datgladiatah

The biggest thing that keeps me from playing this game anymore is because overland content contains a MASSIVE amount of content to do/keeps getting released, but it's all standardized into one difficulty. And the funny thing is it wouldn't matter for early level characters anyways because their buffs from low level can be so high they have way more survivability than most end game dedicated pvp builds.

ZoS is so afraid to give solo or duo players something to that takes more than an afterthought. They want their game to feel like a grind. Even their group content is incredibly unimpressive outside of the dlc dungeons which are all just full of hard to read 1 hit mechanics that never reward players for using abilities cleverly but instead know how to animation cancel 12 DoT's and LA.

You're never going to get back the experience of a TES game with an MMO anyways, sure, but just playing the game for its mechanics (dodge rolling, blocking, weaving, active abilities, dashes/gap closers, bashes) you can see the game has far more fluidity than any TES game and if they wanted to, they could make their single player experience way more memorable. I cancelled my sub the minute Summerset turned out to be just another crafting grind. I want to experience the game with a friend, I want to co-op like I would if I could in a TES game.

starkerealm

SpAEkus wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

you still need to gather skill points. you still need to level skill lines and morphs. unless you decide to just copy someone else's build, part of progression is figuring out how you want to play, what build you want to go with.

the main difference is progression is now lateral, rather then vertical and to be honest, lateral progression fells a heck of a lot more elder scrolls like than what this game was before. I'm in a camp of "I love one tamriel" to be honest, its what got me to come back to the game for good. ability to go anywhere, explore anything - is amazing. I don't like being restricted to specific zones only. and given that Blizzard now implemented something very similar, if not as all encompassing in scope (its expansion restricted, but within any given expansion or two expansions at the time - you can just go to any zone you want, and while level display is showing you as "leveling" and mobs level up with you, its quite literally mechanically almost the same as going from zone to zone in one tamriel.) I'd say that its something majority of gamers tend to prefer to linear restrictive upward progression.

edited to add, I'm not entirely sure exactly how scaling works, but I've noticed that under lvl 50 - my hitpoints might be significantly high, but my damage is significantly lower. the moment I hit 50, even if I didn't upgrade any gear.. my health drops way WAY down, while my damage goes up.

Hit points yes, but Mag/Sta as well? Which is why I asked earlier if anyone had some actual base numbers on a low CP L50 character. To remove any other factors that could account for boost or no boost.

Skills and spells work off mag/sta pools , but even if they drop, your skills are still much higher at that point to compensate?

Meaning damage either should have also dropped with a lower sta/mag pool or those didn't drop as well or as far?

That also assumes that you didn't already apply earned CP on that character before L50 to see actual base vs boosted numbers?

You can always clear spent CP on a level 50 to check the after numbers.

The thing about your pools is, your weapon/spell damage and weapon/spell crit values have a huge effect on your outgoing damage. Those will be far higher on an endgame character.

A level one should have: Max Mag/Stam of 15229, and Max Health of 16407

So, max pool of 46,865.

A naked level 50 (no spent CP) will have 7958 max stam/mag, and 8744 max health.

So, a max pool of 24,660.

So, basically a 90% buff to a level one.

Except, you'll never see this, because you'll also have attribute points spent, and your CP.

Spent 300 CP (that's where attribute scaling is supposed to stop, and got 9550 for Mag/Stam, and 10493 for health. 29,593 total.

Thing is, most endgame characters will have roughly 60k points scattered between their stats.

So, yeah, there is a significant buff, but at the same time, gear and spent points make up a huge difference.

SpAEkus

starkerealm wrote: »

You can always clear spent CP on a level 50 to check the after numbers.

The thing about your pools is, your weapon/spell damage and weapon/spell crit values have a huge effect on your outgoing damage. Those will be far higher on an endgame character.

A level one should have: Max Mag/Stam of 15229, and Max Health of 16407

So, max pool of 46,865.

A naked level 50 (no spent CP) will have 7958 max stam/mag, and 8744 max health.

So, a max pool of 24,660.

So, basically a 90% buff to a level one.

Except, you'll never see this, because you'll also have attribute points spent, and your CP.

Spent 300 CP (that's where attribute scaling is supposed to stop, and got 9550 for Mag/Stam, and 10493 for health. 29,593 total.

Thing is, most endgame characters will have roughly 60k points scattered between their stats.

So, yeah, there is a significant buff, but at the same time, gear and spent points make up a huge difference.

My original question was whether ZOS battle-leveling boost stopped at L50/CP10 or L50/CP159.

The original patch note was specific, emphasis mine:

High-level players will be able to group with friends who are new to ESO; anyone below Champion 160 will scale so everyone can adventure together.

Patch 2.6.4 One Tamriel and Update 12

Some responses were it def stopped at L50/CP10. Others were based on how hard it was from CP10-CP160. And then health drop but damage increased.

That is the only question that I am trying to get an actual in-game data based answer for because it needs to be confirmed just to be accurate when discussing character scaling, even before the merits/demerits of the system get judged.

Yes , I did exactly that in my OP, I removed every possible item that could boost base stats from my CP734 Character. And that char still has higher stats than your example. What actual Character CP level did you use to remove all items from?

MAX Magicka - 9550 MAG recovery - 637
MAX Health - 10493 Health Recovery - 339
MAX Stamina - 9550 Stamina Recovery - 565

Is there something else that adds to base stats with additional base CP gain? I seem to remember that there was an original addition with each VR level since we do not earn past 64 attribute points. Is it still in effect for CP?

I created a brand new character and did the same, L1, No Attributes/gear/stats or anything else:

MAX Magicka - 14978 MAG recovery - 811
MAX Health - 16144 Health Recovery - 530
MAX Stamina - 14978 Stamina Recovery - 811

Until we can get the actual in-game base stats from a L50/CP10 character, or any <CP160 character, per the patch notes, I'm not able to confirm that actual battle-leveling boost stops at L50 or L50/CP10. Versus CP160 per the patch notes.

zaria

Gatviper wrote: »

I've noticed that players below CP 160 seem to get scaled up to that, but the gear which drops for them from mobs, is actually usually at their level, otherwise I have no other explanation to sometimes getting drops below CP 160 for me when doing group dungeons, with sometimes lower-level players.
Having said that, doing group dungeons on Vet difficulty with players below 300+CP can always be fun. Not so much because it's going smooth, but because of those very low players dying all the time, cause something like 122 CP and 810 CP is a world of difference in survivability + dps, but many are not aware of that.

Another important thing is that an CP150 player has purple cp100 crafted gear as maximum, might be lower level might be an lots of random stuff an so on, cp200 and this changes as he starts to gear up.
You can see the stats drop then you level an new alt who has level 36 gear and hit 50.

Kiralyn2000

datgladiatah wrote: »

The biggest thing that keeps me from playing this game anymore is because overland content contains a MASSIVE amount of content to do/keeps getting released, but it's all standardized into one difficulty. And the funny thing is it wouldn't matter for early level characters anyways because their buffs from low level can be so high they have way more survivability than most end game dedicated pvp builds.

And yet, when I started my new Warden this past spring when I got Summerset & Morrowind, I saw new players in chat talking about how hard it was and how they kept dying all the time. And other people agreeing with them.

(just goes to show, it's not the stats & scaling that are the main issue - it's knowledge & understanding of game mechanics & systems. Which is why "just don't assign CP" isn't a great solution for giving uber-players 'challenge' - their knowledge of how to play is so good that the lack of stats doesn't make a big impact. Of course, making overland enemies "stronger" won't give them challenge, either - overland mobs don't have the mechanics that HM dungeon & trial encounters do. And mechanics are the only real challenge for trial-level players - "moar HP" is just grind, and "moar damage" isn't a big deal with simple mechanics.)

Davor

Valrien wrote: »

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

While it is a mistake, I feel so stupid with my CP 180 character and play my under 50 level characters because the game is so much easier for me, the question is, what is the alternative? What could have been done? I HATED being stuck in my zone first and not being able to go anywhere I wanted.

Is this the least worst thing to do? What would be better where people could still interact with others and fun with their friends/family?

lagrue

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

It does matter because you still need to level your appropriate skill lines and the time it takes to max most skill lines falls cozy into the 1-50 level range. By level 50 your preferred weapon and armor line should be hitting the same.

As for the set parts, I would say no, you have to continually upgrade your sets every 10 levels or so or you will notice a falloff as the scaling works it's way up. (every level up the scaling has less of an effect, this is because the game expects you to be developing yourself still) You become progressively weaker, in fact, until 160. So those sets make up those losses. You can crutch on just the scaling, in theory, but it would be more difficult in the bullet spongey sense (I.e. not difficult, just tedious).

datgladiatah

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

datgladiatah wrote: »

The biggest thing that keeps me from playing this game anymore is because overland content contains a MASSIVE amount of content to do/keeps getting released, but it's all standardized into one difficulty. And the funny thing is it wouldn't matter for early level characters anyways because their buffs from low level can be so high they have way more survivability than most end game dedicated pvp builds.

And yet, when I started my new Warden this past spring when I got Summerset & Morrowind, I saw new players in chat talking about how hard it was and how they kept dying all the time. And other people agreeing with them.

(just goes to show, it's not the stats & scaling that are the main issue - it's knowledge & understanding of game mechanics & systems. Which is why "just don't assign CP" isn't a great solution for giving uber-players 'challenge' - their knowledge of how to play is so good that the lack of stats doesn't make a big impact. Of course, making overland enemies "stronger" won't give them challenge, either - overland mobs don't have the mechanics that HM dungeon & trial encounters do. And mechanics are the only real challenge for trial-level players - "moar HP" is just grind, and "moar damage" isn't a big deal with simple mechanics.)

Yeah, nothing about the game's tutorials, or any existing quests, or existing overworld enemy designs, teaches players to weave, dodge, block, jump, etc. So if they're used to more stand-still MMO's because most games don't play like ESO, they're not going to figure out how much they're really in control. That's ZOS's fault. They have no intention to teach their players how to play their game because if they did, they wouldn't bother coming back to the sheer amount of boring overworld content anymore.