mob levels: can anyone explain?

EQBallzz

So after returning to the game I'm a bit confused how the overland mob levels work in relation to player level. I have been leveling a Warden and every mob I put my cursor on doesn't show a level but rather shows as 160 CP. I assume that when they opened up all 3 regions for cross region play they had to standardize levels somehow to make that work and now they are based on CP instead of the old levels. Is that correct?

That being said I still don't really understand how this works. Does that 160 CP I'm seeing on the health bar represent difficulty or something else? I have been in Vvardenfel on a level 15 and Craglorn on my level 50 but all mobs everywhere seem to show the same 160 CP so it doesn't seem like it is difficulty. I currently have 270 CP so would that 160 be different for a new player with no CP? How does mob difficulty scale between a new player with no CP and someone with 500 CP? Also, how does this apply to dungeon difficulty?

Sorry if this is obvious but it's not clear to me!

Royaji

It does not. All mobs are the same - level 50, CP 160. Players whp are under 50 are scaled up to their level.

Turelus

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

EQBallzz

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

DMuehlhausen

It's stupid. There really is no point in leveling anymore. You should just be given max level and skyshards. RPGS you are suppose to feel like you are getting stronger as you go through the game. Going back to zones and farm old materials, or walk near mobs that use to scare and not be touched by them now.

Turelus

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

You're never scaled down, which is where a lot of the complaints about how easy the overland content becomes for veterans is coming from.

Each level you gain you lose a bit of the power buff, so if you don't keep updated gear it's still possible to play and level, but you will notice slowly getting weaker damage outputs etc.

EQBallzz

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

You're never scaled down, which is where a lot of the complaints about how easy the overland content becomes for veterans is coming from.

Each level you gain you lose a bit of the power buff, so if you don't keep updated gear it's still possible to play and level, but you will notice slowly getting weaker damage outputs etc.

This is a really weird system. So there are no more "high level" zones? What PVE are you supposed to do once you get higher CP? Just trials and vet dungeons? That's all? Everything else is just trivial?

Turelus

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

You're never scaled down, which is where a lot of the complaints about how easy the overland content becomes for veterans is coming from.

Each level you gain you lose a bit of the power buff, so if you don't keep updated gear it's still possible to play and level, but you will notice slowly getting weaker damage outputs etc.

This is a really weird system. So there are no more "high level" zones? What PVE are you supposed to do once you get higher CP? Just trials and vet dungeons? That's all? Everything else is just trivial?

Basically yes. Overland content is more focused on casual play and stories, the challenging gameplay is PvP, Trials, Dungeons (DLC) and Arenas.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

Here is how the gear you have works now: Let's say you are level 10 Magicka Warden and have all Attribute points in Magicka. With crappy dropped gear of various levels your health, magicka and stamina will be very high (higher than it will be when you hit CP 160) as part of the auto leveling system in the game now. BUT....here is where it gets interesting. If you never change the gear as you level your character stats will drop and when you finally hit level 50 your character turns into a wet noodle. You will be shocked at how weak it is.

If you have crafted gear and let's say craft level 10 Julianos and level 10 Kagrenac's Hope, both 5 piece to complete the set and put that on your character (two other pieces I usually get to complete the setup are two rings dropped in the same set that help that characters Attributes. In this case some set that has Magicka added and perhaps mag regen or spell damage).

So you put these crafted sets on (these are just two sets picked for simple discussion here) and now have two full 5 piece sets plus two random rings to help. Now write down your stats such as Magicka, Stamina, Health, Mag regen, Spell Damage and Spell Crit. Heck write them all down if you wish. As you level all these stats will DROP. Your character at level 10 with these two crafted sets for example will be extremely powerful due to the way ZOS has setup the game for new players leveling.

So let's say at level 20 you craft those two sets again and slot them till level 30. And so on. Some do this or something similar some just say heck with it and use whatever is dropped in zone and change out pieces as they level to 50/CP level.

But yeah, the game is super easy now due to the way mobs and your character are auto leveled to CP 160. No real challenge to level anymore.

AlnilamE

Well, the world bosses have been buffed a lot in the old zones, and the new zones have some pretty tough world bosses (with daily quests for people to go fight them).

As you level to 50, the differential between your character level and your gear level affects the scaling, so if you use gear that is too low, you are weaker. Getting to 50 is less important than getting and leveling the skills that you need.

EQBallzz

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

You're never scaled down, which is where a lot of the complaints about how easy the overland content becomes for veterans is coming from.

Each level you gain you lose a bit of the power buff, so if you don't keep updated gear it's still possible to play and level, but you will notice slowly getting weaker damage outputs etc.

This is a really weird system. So there are no more "high level" zones? What PVE are you supposed to do once you get higher CP? Just trials and vet dungeons? That's all? Everything else is just trivial?

Basically yes. Overland content is more focused on casual play and stories, the challenging gameplay is PvP, Trials, Dungeons (DLC) and Arenas.

Wow. I had no idea such major changes had happened while I was gone. So how does this factor into CP gain? Once you are 50 and working on CP you are just doing a faceroll on overland content to get more CP which makes it even more faceroll or are people gaining CP by dungeons or what?

Vuron

I came back recently, too. I was VR14 when I left so was at CP140 when i restarted. I created a new character and whited out Summerset and Auridon, and had just started Grahtwood when I got the final main story quest. I hadn't even been paying attention to my armor and weapons and noticed after i beat Molag Bal that I was wearing random green dropped armor between level 28-32 and my only deaths the entire way through had been from falling.

Everything is sort of a joke, now.

zaria

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

You're never scaled down, which is where a lot of the complaints about how easy the overland content becomes for veterans is coming from.

Each level you gain you lose a bit of the power buff, so if you don't keep updated gear it's still possible to play and level, but you will notice slowly getting weaker damage outputs etc.

This is a really weird system. So there are no more "high level" zones? What PVE are you supposed to do once you get higher CP? Just trials and vet dungeons? That's all? Everything else is just trivial?

Its an far better system, with the old you outleveled the zones before you was done you could then continue to do quests but getting little to none xp or skip ahead.
You can continue to do quests and explore after cp160, you now get cp160 stuff who can be kept or sold rater than stuff you outlevel fast. Back before then you was vet 15-16 you was stuck to craglorn and an few other zones, rest gave no xp or drops.

Yes then you get above cp160 and got decent gear and rotation overland is trivial but that is another issue,

Red_Feather

I wish there was more hard zones like craglorn instead of adding dungeons and trials. Anyone who disagrees isn't thinking ahead!

Turelus

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

You're never scaled down, which is where a lot of the complaints about how easy the overland content becomes for veterans is coming from.

Each level you gain you lose a bit of the power buff, so if you don't keep updated gear it's still possible to play and level, but you will notice slowly getting weaker damage outputs etc.

This is a really weird system. So there are no more "high level" zones? What PVE are you supposed to do once you get higher CP? Just trials and vet dungeons? That's all? Everything else is just trivial?

Basically yes. Overland content is more focused on casual play and stories, the challenging gameplay is PvP, Trials, Dungeons (DLC) and Arenas.

Wow. I had no idea such major changes had happened while I was gone. So how does this factor into CP gain? Once you are 50 and working on CP you are just doing a faceroll on overland content to get more CP which makes it even more faceroll or are people gaining CP by dungeons or what?

In general I think people just make CP doing whatever they like doing. Those who want it high level fast normally grind for it.
Most of mine has come from just doing random dungeon finder with friends or playing the stories in the zones.

Once you're at cap you generally don't think about CP and just play what's fun gaining CP as you play.

EQBallzz

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

Here is how the gear you have works now: Let's say you are level 10 Magicka Warden and have all Attribute points in Magicka. With crappy dropped gear of various levels your health, magicka and stamina will be very high (higher than it will be when you hit CP 160) as part of the auto leveling system in the game now. BUT....here is where it gets interesting. If you never change the gear as you level your character stats will drop and when you finally hit level 50 your character turns into a wet noodle. You will be shocked at how weak it is.

If you have crafted gear and let's say craft level 10 Julianos and level 10 Kagrenac's Hope, both 5 piece to complete the set and put that on your character (two other pieces I usually get to complete the setup are two rings dropped in the same set that help that characters Attributes. In this case some set that has Magicka added and perhaps mag regen or spell damage).

So you put these crafted sets on (these are just two sets picked for simple discussion here) and now have two full 5 piece sets plus two random rings to help. Now write down your stats such as Magicka, Stamina, Health, Mag regen, Spell Damage and Spell Crit. Heck write them all down if you wish. As you level all these stats will DROP. Your character at level 10 with these two crafted sets for example will be extremely powerful due to the way ZOS has setup the game for new players leveling.

So let's say at level 20 you craft those two sets again and slot them till level 30. And so on. Some do this or something similar some just say heck with it and use whatever is dropped in zone and change out pieces as they level to 50/CP level.

But yeah, the game is super easy now due to the way mobs and your character are auto leveled to CP 160. No real challenge to level anymore.

This is all so odd. It's like the exact opposite of how the game started out. I remember when the game released the overland content was HARD. Even in low level areas there were certain mobs that were part of the main quest that were super tough to get through depending on your class/build and people were getting stuck on the main quest progression. Then there were the veteran areas. Seems completely opposite now.

Swomp23

Vuron wrote: »

I came back recently, too. I was VR14 when I left so was at CP140 when i restarted. I created a new character and whited out Summerset and Auridon, and had just started Grahtwood when I got the final main story quest. I hadn't even been paying attention to my armor and weapons and noticed after i beat Molag Bal that I was wearing random green dropped armor between level 28-32 and my only deaths the entire way through had been from falling.

Everything is sort of a joke, now.

Sadly true. However, every time we try to make a thread about how we would like something like a difficulty slider for questing, or some kind of debuff to make overland content somewhat meaningful, those threads are flooded by a truckload people calling us elitist scum and telling us to run the content naked with no cp if we want some challenge. Or to go back to dungeons and trials, that we have plenty of challenging content.

It's like if they don't understand that we'd like questing to be available to all sorts of people wanting all sorts of different experiences. RPGs are built around character progression, where is the progression if we have to remove our gear and cp to feel a slight sense of immersion while questing? Because frankly, killing the last boss of a zone questline with 3 attacks is the opposite of an immersing experience.

---

I mean, I get why ZOS did this. By the way, this change came in the One Tamriel update. ZOS explained that they wanted all players to be able to group and play together, wathever level they were. One dev told a very touching story about how he couldn't play with his son because they were different levels. IMO, this is a very good reason. It also solved the problems of half your quests becoming pointless because you outleveled them. All in all, they made the game more like it was in Oblivion and Skyrim, where the mobs scaled to you, with the exception of some bosses in Skyrim (that damned frost troll on your way to High Wrothgar, or some dragon priests that were of a fixed level).

The main difference is that in those single player RPGs, you had acces to a difficulty slider to keep content interesting. You were a casual player that enjoyed those quest for the story? Slide this cursor all the way to the left and enjoy the game. Were you someoe that enjoy games because of the challenge and progression feeling RPGs provide? Slide that mf all the way to the right, or start at the middle and slowly push it to harder mode as your character progress. Everybody could find something for their enjoyment.

Pesonnally, I think this is the main thing that is lacking in this game. An interesting quest mode for all character levels AND FOR EVERY TYPE OF PLAYER, wether you play for the story or the challenge. Of course, people will always say that other MMO don't do that. But imo, it would be the occasion for ZOS to stand out from the competition.

starkerealm

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

Technically, there is progression. The stat buff is way less aggressive than it was when first implemented. So, your low level characters are significantly buffed, and you can really see this if you make crafted sets for them.

However, there's no overland content difficulty changes. It will feel like it's getting harder, particularly after you hit 50, before you get to gear cap, as the buff will be almost gone and your gear will burn by very quickly. But, on the whole, the overland content isn't getting harder, it just feels like it. If you find that too easy, then, yes, the goal is for vet content.

EDIT: also, some zones are more mechanically complex. The DLC ones are far less forgiving than the base game zones.

max_only

EQBallzz wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

Here is how the gear you have works now: Let's say you are level 10 Magicka Warden and have all Attribute points in Magicka. With crappy dropped gear of various levels your health, magicka and stamina will be very high (higher than it will be when you hit CP 160) as part of the auto leveling system in the game now. BUT....here is where it gets interesting. If you never change the gear as you level your character stats will drop and when you finally hit level 50 your character turns into a wet noodle. You will be shocked at how weak it is.

If you have crafted gear and let's say craft level 10 Julianos and level 10 Kagrenac's Hope, both 5 piece to complete the set and put that on your character (two other pieces I usually get to complete the setup are two rings dropped in the same set that help that characters Attributes. In this case some set that has Magicka added and perhaps mag regen or spell damage).

So you put these crafted sets on (these are just two sets picked for simple discussion here) and now have two full 5 piece sets plus two random rings to help. Now write down your stats such as Magicka, Stamina, Health, Mag regen, Spell Damage and Spell Crit. Heck write them all down if you wish. As you level all these stats will DROP. Your character at level 10 with these two crafted sets for example will be extremely powerful due to the way ZOS has setup the game for new players leveling.

So let's say at level 20 you craft those two sets again and slot them till level 30. And so on. Some do this or something similar some just say heck with it and use whatever is dropped in zone and change out pieces as they level to 50/CP level.

But yeah, the game is super easy now due to the way mobs and your character are auto leveled to CP 160. No real challenge to level anymore.

This is all so odd. It's like the exact opposite of how the game started out. I remember when the game released the overland content was HARD. Even in low level areas there were certain mobs that were part of the main quest that were super tough to get through depending on your class/build and people were getting stuck on the main quest progression. Then there were the veteran areas. Seems completely opposite now.

It may be hard to believe but there are still people who can’t kill the bosses in the story quests. I had a guildie ask for help for one of the nightmare sequences in Stormhaven.

The progression in this game is tied to gear. As long as you are wearing gear that is your level you should be at the right power to kill what’s in front of you.

Then, when you hit 50 the training wheels come off. So between lvl 49.9 and cp160 you feel the struggle (on the first go round).

Luckily cp 160 comes quickly and then the character can roll with the big boys and start trading armor/completing sets.

Vuron

EQBallzz wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

Here is how the gear you have works now: Let's say you are level 10 Magicka Warden and have all Attribute points in Magicka. With crappy dropped gear of various levels your health, magicka and stamina will be very high (higher than it will be when you hit CP 160) as part of the auto leveling system in the game now. BUT....here is where it gets interesting. If you never change the gear as you level your character stats will drop and when you finally hit level 50 your character turns into a wet noodle. You will be shocked at how weak it is.

If you have crafted gear and let's say craft level 10 Julianos and level 10 Kagrenac's Hope, both 5 piece to complete the set and put that on your character (two other pieces I usually get to complete the setup are two rings dropped in the same set that help that characters Attributes. In this case some set that has Magicka added and perhaps mag regen or spell damage).

So you put these crafted sets on (these are just two sets picked for simple discussion here) and now have two full 5 piece sets plus two random rings to help. Now write down your stats such as Magicka, Stamina, Health, Mag regen, Spell Damage and Spell Crit. Heck write them all down if you wish. As you level all these stats will DROP. Your character at level 10 with these two crafted sets for example will be extremely powerful due to the way ZOS has setup the game for new players leveling.

So let's say at level 20 you craft those two sets again and slot them till level 30. And so on. Some do this or something similar some just say heck with it and use whatever is dropped in zone and change out pieces as they level to 50/CP level.

But yeah, the game is super easy now due to the way mobs and your character are auto leveled to CP 160. No real challenge to level anymore.

This is all so odd. It's like the exact opposite of how the game started out. I remember when the game released the overland content was HARD. Even in low level areas there were certain mobs that were part of the main quest that were super tough to get through depending on your class/build and people were getting stuck on the main quest progression. Then there were the veteran areas. Seems completely opposite now.

Doshia and Gutsripper.

They used to be brutal to certain classes and many people had to wait until they grayed out to do them. They were nerfed so many times before launch that I lost count. I truly think that some people actually quit the game over Doshia.

This really is a perfect example of the way the game has gone over the years. These mobs were never truly difficult, but had mechanics that nobody had seen in the game up until that point and many people couldn't understand why just clicking the same old skills didn't kill them like every other mob and didn't want to spent the time to learn.

I remember a very heated argument back in beta with a guy that claimed this game shouldn't have ANY challenge. His goal was to run around, explore, and not be bothered with difficult fights. I guess he won.

Danikat

The way I think of it is that levelling up, improving your gear and gaining CP does make your character more powerful, it just doesn't 'unlock' content any more. You're not restricted to the few zones which are at the appropriate level for you, instead you can play any content in any order you like and likewise you won't enter a new map and find you're not able to kill anything because you're too weak - it can happen anywhere because you let your gear fall too far behind and/or don't assign skill points and CP.

It is a bit of a weird system at first, especially if you're used to games with strict progression where you must do things in the order you're told. But IMO once you get used to it this way is better because it gives each person much more freedom to focus on what interests them most. If you're a completionist and want to do everything then you can do that without constantly finding you're above the level of the content and not getting XP or useful drops, and if you feel like you've done the base game and don't want to do it all over again just because you want to try a new class then you can skip straight to something new, or Craglorn or whatever else interests you. (Except vet trials and dungeons, because you still need to level up first to unlock the skills you need).

There is an issue where they capped the game at CP160 but allowed players to keep earning and assigning CP way beyond that point, so it does get to the point where all the overland content is far too easy. IMO the solution to that is not to use CP, or only use some of them so it doesn't get too easy, but some people hate that and want other options. I seem to remember ZOS are aware of the issue but when they'll do something about it and what they'll do is anyone's guess.

Swomp23

Vuron wrote: »

I remember a very heated argument back in beta with a guy that claimed this game shouldn't have ANY challenge. His goal was to run around, explore, and not be bothered with difficult fights. I guess he won.

This makes me so sad.

Swomp23

Danikat wrote: »

y. IMO the solution to that is not to use CP, or only use some of them so it doesn't get too easy, but some people hate that and want other options. I seem to remember ZOS are aware of the issue but when they'll do something about it and what they'll do is anyone's guess.

The thing is, I like (and I guess many other people) to alternate between solo questing and vet group play. I need my CPs for vet group play, if I don't want to drag my group. And I'm not rich enough to reallocate them everyday.

You're the first person I see that says ZOS has given feedback about that issue. Thank you, this gives me some hope.

Danikat

Swomp23 wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

I remember a very heated argument back in beta with a guy that claimed this game shouldn't have ANY challenge. His goal was to run around, explore, and not be bothered with difficult fights. I guess he won.

This makes me so sad.

I didn't understand that perspective at all until I met my husband. He's very much one of those people (and we have had heated arguments about it) - to him a game is like an interactive movie and the combat is the action sequences - they should add some variety and excitement and 'punctuate' the important events, but should absolutely never get in the way of the story. If he keeps having to repeat a fight because he can't beat it then he gets annoyed with the game.

Whereas I like RPGS for both the combat and the story. I enjoy the story and do want to read/listen to the dialogue and explore, but I also like figuring out the fights and if it's too easy I get bored and feel like what I'm doing is meaningless. My favourite games are actually the more tactical ones where you need to pause and plan what you're doing every few 'turns'.

It was really interesting when we were playing Dragon Age: Inquisition - it was like two different games. He'd do all the fights in real time with the camera zoomed in behind his mage so he could watch her attacks, leaving the rest of the party to do their thing and enjoy watching the effects until it was over. I'd go into the overhead 'tactical' view, pause immediately to issue orders to everyone and then switch between all the party members coordinating their attacks and pausing frequently to reassess the battlefield and change tactics. It often took me 2 or 3 attempts to get through difficult fights, because I was playing on a harder difficulty and sometimes even if I won I'd decide it could have gone better so I'd do it again.

I still prefer my way of doing things and I'm not going to change it, but I feel like having watched how he plays games and discussed it with him I have a better understanding of why some people would do it differently. I also appreciated it when games started to label the lowest difficulty setting as 'story mode' rather than 'easy' or 'beginner' because I feel like it's more of an acknowledgement that different ways of playing are equally valid.

Danikat

Swomp23 wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

y. IMO the solution to that is not to use CP, or only use some of them so it doesn't get too easy, but some people hate that and want other options. I seem to remember ZOS are aware of the issue but when they'll do something about it and what they'll do is anyone's guess.

The thing is, I like (and I guess many other people) to alternate between solo questing and vet group play. I need my CPs for vet group play, if I don't want to drag my group. And I'm not rich enough to reallocate them everyday.

You're the first person I see that says ZOS has given feedback about that issue. Thank you, this gives me some hope.

Yeah that is the big problem with this method. For now I'm ok with it, because I'd very rarely do vet dungeons (I have more than enough other stuff to do and can't commit to being online at a fixed time or even know how long I'll have when I am online so I mainly play solo) so I just don't use CP and don't do vet group content. But I think if that wasn't the case I'd have to have 2 characters so I can assign CP on one and not on the other.

What I'd really like is a way to disable the effect of CP (like playing in the no-CP PvP campaign) so I could assign the points, disable it and only turn it on if I'm doing vet content or maybe if I just want to kill the boss in a delve or whatever and move on and there's no one around.

EQBallzz

Vuron wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

Here is how the gear you have works now: Let's say you are level 10 Magicka Warden and have all Attribute points in Magicka. With crappy dropped gear of various levels your health, magicka and stamina will be very high (higher than it will be when you hit CP 160) as part of the auto leveling system in the game now. BUT....here is where it gets interesting. If you never change the gear as you level your character stats will drop and when you finally hit level 50 your character turns into a wet noodle. You will be shocked at how weak it is.

If you have crafted gear and let's say craft level 10 Julianos and level 10 Kagrenac's Hope, both 5 piece to complete the set and put that on your character (two other pieces I usually get to complete the setup are two rings dropped in the same set that help that characters Attributes. In this case some set that has Magicka added and perhaps mag regen or spell damage).

So you put these crafted sets on (these are just two sets picked for simple discussion here) and now have two full 5 piece sets plus two random rings to help. Now write down your stats such as Magicka, Stamina, Health, Mag regen, Spell Damage and Spell Crit. Heck write them all down if you wish. As you level all these stats will DROP. Your character at level 10 with these two crafted sets for example will be extremely powerful due to the way ZOS has setup the game for new players leveling.

So let's say at level 20 you craft those two sets again and slot them till level 30. And so on. Some do this or something similar some just say heck with it and use whatever is dropped in zone and change out pieces as they level to 50/CP level.

But yeah, the game is super easy now due to the way mobs and your character are auto leveled to CP 160. No real challenge to level anymore.

This is all so odd. It's like the exact opposite of how the game started out. I remember when the game released the overland content was HARD. Even in low level areas there were certain mobs that were part of the main quest that were super tough to get through depending on your class/build and people were getting stuck on the main quest progression. Then there were the veteran areas. Seems completely opposite now.

Doshia and Gutsripper.

They used to be brutal to certain classes and many people had to wait until they grayed out to do them. They were nerfed so many times before launch that I lost count. I truly think that some people actually quit the game over Doshia.

This really is a perfect example of the way the game has gone over the years. These mobs were never truly difficult, but had mechanics that nobody had seen in the game up until that point and many people couldn't understand why just clicking the same old skills didn't kill them like every other mob and didn't want to spent the time to learn.

I remember a very heated argument back in beta with a guy that claimed this game shouldn't have ANY challenge. His goal was to run around, explore, and not be bothered with difficult fights. I guess he won.

Those are the exact two mobs I was thinking of. I remember both being pretty challenging on my NB because my survivability was kind of low but I got through them with a bit of effort. IIRC Doshia was particularly tough for me as a bow NB because of how the room was set up and how little room there was. I didn't have as much touble with Gutsripper but it was still pretty hard at the intended level.

Swomp23

Danikat wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

I remember a very heated argument back in beta with a guy that claimed this game shouldn't have ANY challenge. His goal was to run around, explore, and not be bothered with difficult fights. I guess he won.

This makes me so sad.

I didn't understand that perspective at all until I met my husband. He's very much one of those people (and we have had heated arguments about it) - to him a game is like an interactive movie and the combat is the action sequences - they should add some variety and excitement and 'punctuate' the important events, but should absolutely never get in the way of the story. If he keeps having to repeat a fight because he can't beat it then he gets annoyed with the game.

Whereas I like RPGS for both the combat and the story. I enjoy the story and do want to read/listen to the dialogue and explore, but I also like figuring out the fights and if it's too easy I get bored and feel like what I'm doing is meaningless. My favourite games are actually the more tactical ones where you need to pause and plan what you're doing every few 'turns'.

It was really interesting when we were playing Dragon Age: Inquisition - it was like two different games. He'd do all the fights in real time with the camera zoomed in behind his mage so he could watch her attacks, leaving the rest of the party to do their thing and enjoy watching the effects until it was over. I'd go into the overhead 'tactical' view, pause immediately to issue orders to everyone and then switch between all the party members coordinating their attacks and pausing frequently to reassess the battlefield and change tactics. It often took me 2 or 3 attempts to get through difficult fights, because I was playing on a harder difficulty and sometimes even if I won I'd decide it could have gone better so I'd do it again.

I still prefer my way of doing things and I'm not going to change it, but I feel like having watched how he plays games and discussed it with him I have a better understanding of why some people would do it differently. I also appreciated it when games started to label the lowest difficulty setting as 'story mode' rather than 'easy' or 'beginner' because I feel like it's more of an acknowledgement that different ways of playing are equally valid.

Lol, get a better husband

No, all jokes aside, I completly understand that different people play games for different reasons. There was a very well thought and interesting post by @Sadetius about this reality last week in a similar thread. I'll copy it here.

Normally I just lurk here but exactly to keep an eye on these threads in the hope that they add some form of vet option for over world.

It is safe to say "different folks different strokes". Players have different reasons for playing games, as demonstrated in a research by Nicole Lazzaro named : " Why We Play Games" , source

There is 'Hard Fun' and 'Easy Fun', needless to say some player enjoy one or the other. And there is nothing wrong with being on one or the other side, we all have different preferences.

The problem is, as others mentioned is that questing and the over world are a huge bulk of the content. And while there are dungeons and trials this is only a small fraction of the content. And running that small percentage of content ad nauseam isn't really fun.
The Problem is while frustration is definitely a factor for players to abandon a game, but so is boredom.
Don't forget the flow theory .

The other fun thing is that frustration can actually lead to heightened immersion and a better emotional engagement : Source. Now it is important though that the research paper does make a distinction between negative and positive frustration. Nonetheless it is a important factor that might significantly increase player enjoyment in a game.

with questing and overworld content being a large portion of the game and being faceroll easy, it completely ruins the appeal for the hard fun players. I want to feel like I am on and adventure when questing in the overworld, not a guided tour experience where every enemy dies the moment I look at them. And questing with friends makes the content even more trivial.

Abd taking off gear is not an option while it will probably increase the diffiuclty, you will be throwing away a core pillar of an RPG : Character development/progression. Since most of the power mainly comes through CP and gear you will be throwing that all away in the garbage. I am just going to leave this quote here :

" Continuously providing opportunities for the player’s characters to grow
and develop throughout the role-playing experience is absolutely critical. If a
game cannot offer meaningful character advancement perceptible either
through the story or through the character’s statistics, a title cannot rightfully
be considered a role-playing game."

Source : Hallford, N., Hallford, J., & LaMothe, A. (2001). Swords and circuitry: A designer's guide to computer role-playing games. Premier Press, Incorporated.

I don't really care about extra rewards, if some players feel like the extra rewards are unfair for some reason; fine no extra rewards I don't care. Hell if given the option I would choose to make epic and legendary gear more rare, but hey I am that weirdo that players Skyrim with a 4 times less loot mod. Anyway like I said many times just give me a vet option and I am coming back with friends. It might even make ESO an unique beast in the MMO market. An mmo that provides questing for both hardcore and casuals alike? where have you ever seen that?

in closing I want to refer to a quote from Gamasutra by John Harris, while it does not hold for all player types, I think the 'Hard Fun' players have definitely encountered this issue frequently :
" However, it's reached the point where "adventuring" in an RPG rarely feels risky. Gaining experience is supposed to carry the risk of harm and failure. Without that risk, gaining power becomes a foregone conclusion.

It has reached the point where the mere act of spending time playing the game appears to give players the right to have their characters become more powerful. The obstacles that provide experience become simply an arbitrary wall to scale before more power is granted; this, in a nutshell, is the type of play that has brought us grind, where the journey is simple and boring and the destination is something to be raced to."

I'm repeating myself like a rambling elderly fool, but a difficulty slider, that would work like battle spirit, or a debuff option that would remove cp, set bonuses, or wathever would solve so many problem for so many people.

Valrien

Tbh the reactions in this thread are exactly why One Tamriel was a mistake.

Progression has no meaning anymore

Alliance has no meaning anymore

There is no difficulty in the overland anymore

Anotherone773

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every zone is now scaled to CP160.

Any characters which are not level 50 (and thus CP levels) will be scaled up to CP160 power equivalent.

Wow. That is weird. So there really is no more progression from 1-50? If you are being scaled up like that does it even matter if you craft new armor at level 15 or 20 or whatever or is it so insignificant as to not matter until you hit CP levels? I assume the set bonuses of crafted sets would still be useful but should you just craft one set at level 10 and use that until 50+ now?

Also, if you have more than 160 CP do you get scaled down or is the stuff just trivialized with more CP?

You're never scaled down, which is where a lot of the complaints about how easy the overland content becomes for veterans is coming from.

Each level you gain you lose a bit of the power buff, so if you don't keep updated gear it's still possible to play and level, but you will notice slowly getting weaker damage outputs etc.

This is a really weird system. So there are no more "high level" zones? What PVE are you supposed to do once you get higher CP? Just trials and vet dungeons? That's all? Everything else is just trivial?

Basically yes. Overland content is more focused on casual play and stories, the challenging gameplay is PvP, Trials, Dungeons (DLC) and Arenas.

Wow. I had no idea such major changes had happened while I was gone. So how does this factor into CP gain? Once you are 50 and working on CP you are just doing a faceroll on overland content to get more CP which makes it even more faceroll or are people gaining CP by dungeons or what?

Dungeons( if healer or tank for fast queues), dolmens, and random battlegrounds are good ways to gain XP fast. overland is faster XP gain for CP players than for non CP but only because they can kill faster and are more experienced.

I do dungeons on a healer when i want to grind CP out or run a bunch of BGs.

Donny_Vito

I always wear level 1 gear when I make a new character, and don't craft any new gear until I'm level 50. It's basically pointless for how fast you can level and the fact that you're being buffed until you get to level 50.

siddique

One shouldn't worry too much about gear until CP160.

I only use whatever I find in loot. At 160, I start farming. The game only starts after that.