Give Ice Staff Destro Abilities an AOE taunt.

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

The ice staff is a strange beast. Its heavy attacks taunt opponents if you invest in a passive skill, but beyond that it's a poor tanking tool. If blockade of frost or the frost version of impulse or grabbed agro for every monster caught in its effect and dealt damage that scaled off of max health it would make ice staff tanking more viable and unique. The game desperately needs an AOE taunt and the underused ice staff is the perfect place to put it. Nothing would change for those who don't invest in the taunt grabbing passive. They'd continue to use the ice staff as a normal destro. But think of the possibility of using an ice version of Eye of The Storm, to grab taunt and deal big damage. It'd be a breath of fresh, if not frozen air.

reprosal · October 2018

Then tanking would be even more generic...

ettenmoor · October 2018

The game does not desperately need an AoE taunt...

VaranisArano · October 2018

Right. So my tank can AOE taunt everything and turtle up, while my healer heals just me, and the DDs burn everything.

This would make tanking much simpler...and IMO, boring.

Didgerion · October 2018

Id like to see these implemented first:
1. Remove movement penalty while blocking with frost staff
2. Increase spell and physical resistance while wearing a frost staff
3. Boost up your damage while wearing a frost staff same as sword and board passive.
4. increase the effectiveness of blocking by slotting an destro-staff ability same as defensive posture on sword and board.
5. give frost staff access to a healing debuff.

As of now frost staff is a joke if you compare it to sword and board.

An AOE taunt would be a nice feature too, but you will need the sword and board slotted on the other bar.

Acrolas · October 2018

I use S&B for my initial ice tank taunt as that doesn't tap into my magicka pool. Then by the time my magicka pool is being depleted, I'm using heavy attacks to both taunt and restore magicka at interval.

AOE taunts would be sloppy and unpredictable alternatives to targeted ones, so I wouldn't use the AOE even if it were available. There are already ways to get substantial, multi-target damage on a tank build if that's the direction want to take. I don't feel that situational luxury should shift to a default configuration.

Psyonico · October 2018

I like the idea of scaling off max health, provided that is tied to the passive, that way ice mages can still exist

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

If you don't like or feel the need for an AOE taunt don't use it. But there are those who would appreciate the change.

AlnilamE · October 2018

This game is not designed for AoE taunts. Tanking depends on identifying your priorities and keeping their attention on you.

Feric51 · October 2018

One way to implement this would be to edit the Tri Focus destro staff passive to make the taunt behave like the lightning staff's heavy attack in that it taunts "nearby" enemies like the lightning staff's heavy attack damages "nearby" enemies.

Example:

Rank I - Fully-charged Frost Heavy Attack taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds and grant a damage shield that absorbs 402 damage. Also taunts up to 1 additional nearby enemy.
Rank II - Fully-charged Frost Heavy Attack taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds and grant a damage shield that absorbs 805 damage. Also taunts up to 2 additional nearby enemies.

I've never seen a definitive radius for the lightning heavy attack splash damage, but I think it's relatively small.

Do I think we need a 28m radius AoE taunt? No. But a 5m radius from a heavy attacked enemy would be a nice touch.

Edit for expanded example.

max_only · October 2018

Eh, not a fan.

Ice tanking... not what I imagine when I roll a tank. And I have a tank for each class.

Ice mage being the king of crowd control I can get behind. “Freezerburn” damage, the ice tornado npcs do, an actual ice barrier the group can hide behind. This is what I think of when ppl say “ice” in this game. Ice tanking is... a weird thing Eso is trying to make happen and it’s not cool lol

But ice tanking, no sir, I don’t like it. Should be removed imho, not improved upon.

AOE ice taunt? Eh.

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

I'd say it will be cool if they decreased time of full-charged ice HA in 30%, while nerfing shield gain and resource gain from each HA by 30%. That will make it usable as main taunt not like supportive taunt. Now pierce armor so fast you can taunt/debuff 3-5 enemies in same time which you otherwise will spend charging ice HA.

Roboplus · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Right. So my tank can AOE taunt everything and turtle up, while my healer heals just me, and the DDs burn everything.

This would make tanking much simpler...and IMO, boring.

Worse than that, it would make Dragonknights even more meta for tanks, since they can survive the most damage.

ettenmoor · October 2018

Not sure what you're planning on saving through an aoe taunt...a few extra button presses? Or do you think Engulfing Flames uptime would be higher if you had an aoe taunt...or maybe your group members won't survive if you can't aoe taunt straightaway.

idk · October 2018

This game does not need an AoE taunt to begin with. Tanks have been tanking everything in this game for years without issue and never with an AoE taunt.

As has been stated, adding one would make tanking utterly boring and a virtual one button easy mode.

yurimodin · October 2018

ice staff is useful for tanking since if I am out of mag/stam I can at least HA for a taunt..........all that said caltrops+grothdar is a good substitute for aoe taunt

starkerealm · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

_Ahala_ · October 2018

Zos should just stop with the whole ice destruction staff is for tanking agenda and give us a real magika tanking weapon (alteration staff?) with a tanking ult, five tanking abilities, and five tanking passives... in its current state ice is subpar for both dps and tanking and frankly does not make sense as a tanking weapon as it’s literally classified as a destruction staff in a world where ice destruction magic as opposed to ice tanking magic is well established in lore... alteration magic is far better suited to fill the magicka tanking role than ice magic

paulsimonps · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen. And that's you. Many if not most tanks won't use such a set up.

starkerealm · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen.

Okay, so, here's the line between a tank who knows what they're doing, and one who's just learning.

Get to a certain point, and you have a stupid amount of build freedom. You need to be tough enough to avoid dying, while working the boss's nerves. You need to be able to use CC effectively. And, that's kinda it. Everything after that is gravy. Including group buffs. You don't have to buff the group if you're helping in other ways.

So, your sets need to be things that help you do your job. Lich, or Warlock do that. Even Trappings of Invigoration can be useful (though, I haven't tested that one.)

You can be an extremely selfish tank, go survival on both sets, and let the DPS scramble for buffs. That's entirely up to you. And I won't judge you for leaving your DPS out to dry, I've got a selfish Sorc Tank that slots ebon, and everything after that is up to the DPS and the Healer to avoid dying.

But, you can run Lich. You can run IA if you want, for 4 man content. It's kinda fun. You can run Alkosh, which is a DPS set, in case that was unclear. But, it's nice to see it on the tank. Hell, I do have a Sanctuary + Ebon Christmas Tree build.

You can do a lot with second 5pc bonus on your tank. You're not confined to two survival sets.

Right now, on live, as the game exists, a DK running Plague or Eben + Lich Weapons and Jewlery is a very strong setup.

Hell, you could probably get away with Hatchling's Shell + Lich on a DK now, that'd be disgusting.

idk · October 2018

paulsimonps wrote: »

Probably the best response.

Fortunately we have nothing to fear. Zos designers have clearly stated an AoE taunt is not needed in the game, that it is not even intended for tanks to tank everything in trash mobs. They designed the game so everyone will get a little taste of agro and can deal with it just fine.

They are aware that if an inexperienced group is given training wheels that they will never advance and be able to handle the content as intended, and as so many of us have for over 4 years.

I have yet to hear an experienced, or even slightly experienced tank say they needed an AoE taunt.

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen.

Okay, so, here's the line between a tank who knows what they're doing, and one who's just learning.

Get to a certain point, and you have a stupid amount of build freedom. You need to be tough enough to avoid dying, while working the boss's nerves. You need to be able to use CC effectively. And, that's kinda it. Everything after that is gravy. Including group buffs. You don't have to buff the group if you're helping in other ways.

So, your sets need to be things that help you do your job. Lich, or Warlock do that. Even Trappings of Invigoration can be useful (though, I haven't tested that one.)

You can be an extremely selfish tank, go survival on both sets, and let the DPS scramble for buffs. That's entirely up to you. And I won't judge you for leaving your DPS out to dry, I've got a selfish Sorc Tank that slots ebon, and everything after that is up to the DPS and the Healer to avoid dying.

But, you can run Lich. You can run IA if you want, for 4 man content. It's kinda fun. You can run Alkosh, which is a DPS set, in case that was unclear. But, it's nice to see it on the tank. Hell, I do have a Sanctuary + Ebon Christmas Tree build.

You can do a lot with second 5pc bonus on your tank. You're not confined to two survival sets.

Right now, on live, as the game exists, a DK running Plague or Eben + Lich Weapons and Jewlery is a very strong setup.

Hell, you could probably get away with Hatchling's Shell + Lich on a DK now, that'd be disgusting.

I have no doubt that you personally can get away with that but for the average player they'd get recked. So what you're describing could realistically happen among skilled players and because most of us on here tend to be of above average ability it'll seem like a broken setup. But it isn't. The avarage random tank will never ever touch lich.

idk · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen.

Okay, so, here's the line between a tank who knows what they're doing, and one who's just learning.

Get to a certain point, and you have a stupid amount of build freedom. You need to be tough enough to avoid dying, while working the boss's nerves. You need to be able to use CC effectively. And, that's kinda it. Everything after that is gravy. Including group buffs. You don't have to buff the group if you're helping in other ways.

So, your sets need to be things that help you do your job. Lich, or Warlock do that. Even Trappings of Invigoration can be useful (though, I haven't tested that one.)

You can be an extremely selfish tank, go survival on both sets, and let the DPS scramble for buffs. That's entirely up to you. And I won't judge you for leaving your DPS out to dry, I've got a selfish Sorc Tank that slots ebon, and everything after that is up to the DPS and the Healer to avoid dying.

But, you can run Lich. You can run IA if you want, for 4 man content. It's kinda fun. You can run Alkosh, which is a DPS set, in case that was unclear. But, it's nice to see it on the tank. Hell, I do have a Sanctuary + Ebon Christmas Tree build.

You can do a lot with second 5pc bonus on your tank. You're not confined to two survival sets.

Right now, on live, as the game exists, a DK running Plague or Eben + Lich Weapons and Jewlery is a very strong setup.

Hell, you could probably get away with Hatchling's Shell + Lich on a DK now, that'd be disgusting.

I have no doubt that you personally can get away with that but for the average player they'd get recked. So what you're describing could realistically happen among skilled players and because most of us on here tend to be of above average ability it'll seem like a broken setup. But it isn't. The avarage random tank will never ever touch lich.

The average random tank is much more likely to touch lich than an experienced tank. With good trial groups the tank has little say over what sets the wear.

Royaji · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

Casually strolls by spamming Equilibrium. "Magicka sustain? What's that?"

VaranisArano · October 2018

idk wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen.

Okay, so, here's the line between a tank who knows what they're doing, and one who's just learning.

Get to a certain point, and you have a stupid amount of build freedom. You need to be tough enough to avoid dying, while working the boss's nerves. You need to be able to use CC effectively. And, that's kinda it. Everything after that is gravy. Including group buffs. You don't have to buff the group if you're helping in other ways.

So, your sets need to be things that help you do your job. Lich, or Warlock do that. Even Trappings of Invigoration can be useful (though, I haven't tested that one.)

You can be an extremely selfish tank, go survival on both sets, and let the DPS scramble for buffs. That's entirely up to you. And I won't judge you for leaving your DPS out to dry, I've got a selfish Sorc Tank that slots ebon, and everything after that is up to the DPS and the Healer to avoid dying.

But, you can run Lich. You can run IA if you want, for 4 man content. It's kinda fun. You can run Alkosh, which is a DPS set, in case that was unclear. But, it's nice to see it on the tank. Hell, I do have a Sanctuary + Ebon Christmas Tree build.

You can do a lot with second 5pc bonus on your tank. You're not confined to two survival sets.

Right now, on live, as the game exists, a DK running Plague or Eben + Lich Weapons and Jewlery is a very strong setup.

Hell, you could probably get away with Hatchling's Shell + Lich on a DK now, that'd be disgusting.

I have no doubt that you personally can get away with that but for the average player they'd get recked. So what you're describing could realistically happen among skilled players and because most of us on here tend to be of above average ability it'll seem like a broken setup. But it isn't. The avarage random tank will never ever touch lich.

The average random tank is much more likely to touch lich than an experienced tank. With good trial groups the tank has little say over what sets the wear.

Whereas in group dungeons an experienced tank who knows the mechanics can get away with quite a bit in terms of odd sets. Which I suspect is the point of this discussion.

karekiz · October 2018

Honestly ice tanks needs easier Breach/Fracture before anything else.

Add breach+fracture to inner fire first please - remove the synergy if you have too.

Vildebill · October 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen.

Okay, so, here's the line between a tank who knows what they're doing, and one who's just learning.

Get to a certain point, and you have a stupid amount of build freedom. You need to be tough enough to avoid dying, while working the boss's nerves. You need to be able to use CC effectively. And, that's kinda it. Everything after that is gravy. Including group buffs. You don't have to buff the group if you're helping in other ways.

So, your sets need to be things that help you do your job. Lich, or Warlock do that. Even Trappings of Invigoration can be useful (though, I haven't tested that one.)

You can be an extremely selfish tank, go survival on both sets, and let the DPS scramble for buffs. That's entirely up to you. And I won't judge you for leaving your DPS out to dry, I've got a selfish Sorc Tank that slots ebon, and everything after that is up to the DPS and the Healer to avoid dying.

But, you can run Lich. You can run IA if you want, for 4 man content. It's kinda fun. You can run Alkosh, which is a DPS set, in case that was unclear. But, it's nice to see it on the tank. Hell, I do have a Sanctuary + Ebon Christmas Tree build.

You can do a lot with second 5pc bonus on your tank. You're not confined to two survival sets.

Right now, on live, as the game exists, a DK running Plague or Eben + Lich Weapons and Jewlery is a very strong setup.

Hell, you could probably get away with Hatchling's Shell + Lich on a DK now, that'd be disgusting.

Completely disagree with you, if you get to a certain point in tanking you only focus on utility and support sets since you know how to survive and sustain with the other tools you have. I see few scenarios at end game tanking where ebon + alkosh (PA for offtank instead of ebon) aren't used if you want to contribute maximum for your group. The only thing that's dynamic is the monster sets since different ones can be useful in different scenarios, but that almost always come down to warden or thurvokun anyway (no, blood spawn is not the best tanking set).

But you're maybe talking about vet dungeon non dlc runs, then you could go in naked if you want.

starkerealm · October 2018

idk wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen.

Okay, so, here's the line between a tank who knows what they're doing, and one who's just learning.

Get to a certain point, and you have a stupid amount of build freedom. You need to be tough enough to avoid dying, while working the boss's nerves. You need to be able to use CC effectively. And, that's kinda it. Everything after that is gravy. Including group buffs. You don't have to buff the group if you're helping in other ways.

So, your sets need to be things that help you do your job. Lich, or Warlock do that. Even Trappings of Invigoration can be useful (though, I haven't tested that one.)

You can be an extremely selfish tank, go survival on both sets, and let the DPS scramble for buffs. That's entirely up to you. And I won't judge you for leaving your DPS out to dry, I've got a selfish Sorc Tank that slots ebon, and everything after that is up to the DPS and the Healer to avoid dying.

But, you can run Lich. You can run IA if you want, for 4 man content. It's kinda fun. You can run Alkosh, which is a DPS set, in case that was unclear. But, it's nice to see it on the tank. Hell, I do have a Sanctuary + Ebon Christmas Tree build.

You can do a lot with second 5pc bonus on your tank. You're not confined to two survival sets.

Right now, on live, as the game exists, a DK running Plague or Eben + Lich Weapons and Jewlery is a very strong setup.

Hell, you could probably get away with Hatchling's Shell + Lich on a DK now, that'd be disgusting.

I have no doubt that you personally can get away with that but for the average player they'd get recked. So what you're describing could realistically happen among skilled players and because most of us on here tend to be of above average ability it'll seem like a broken setup. But it isn't. The avarage random tank will never ever touch lich.

The average random tank is much more likely to touch lich than an experienced tank. With good trial groups the tank has little say over what sets the wear.

To be fair, with most carefully engineered trial groups, the Trial leader is calling the shots on what most of the group is running anyway.

starkerealm · October 2018

Vildebill wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

To compensate the aoe taunt could wear off sooner. Most tanks don't have high enough magicka to spam destro abilities. They wouldn't be using it often.

You want to see how fast that could change? I've got a DK running Lich Weapons and Jewelry. Hell, I've even got a Lich Ice Staff to switch to.

You give them something like this, and you'd start to realize just how many tanks really do have way more magicka than you realize.

Here's the thing, there are a lot of tanks who run with lots of resources. Your builds may not have the magicka to spam Destro abilities, but mine do.

Honestly with what you'd have to give up in terms of another 5pc bonus to run lich on a tank I wouldn't even fault you and your extra regen.

Okay, so, here's the line between a tank who knows what they're doing, and one who's just learning.

Get to a certain point, and you have a stupid amount of build freedom. You need to be tough enough to avoid dying, while working the boss's nerves. You need to be able to use CC effectively. And, that's kinda it. Everything after that is gravy. Including group buffs. You don't have to buff the group if you're helping in other ways.

So, your sets need to be things that help you do your job. Lich, or Warlock do that. Even Trappings of Invigoration can be useful (though, I haven't tested that one.)

You can be an extremely selfish tank, go survival on both sets, and let the DPS scramble for buffs. That's entirely up to you. And I won't judge you for leaving your DPS out to dry, I've got a selfish Sorc Tank that slots ebon, and everything after that is up to the DPS and the Healer to avoid dying.

But, you can run Lich. You can run IA if you want, for 4 man content. It's kinda fun. You can run Alkosh, which is a DPS set, in case that was unclear. But, it's nice to see it on the tank. Hell, I do have a Sanctuary + Ebon Christmas Tree build.

You can do a lot with second 5pc bonus on your tank. You're not confined to two survival sets.

Right now, on live, as the game exists, a DK running Plague or Eben + Lich Weapons and Jewlery is a very strong setup.

Hell, you could probably get away with Hatchling's Shell + Lich on a DK now, that'd be disgusting.

Completely disagree with you, if you get to a certain point in tanking you only focus on utility and support sets since you know how to survive and sustain with the other tools you have. I see few scenarios at end game tanking where ebon + alkosh (PA for offtank instead of ebon) aren't used if you want to contribute maximum for your group. The only thing that's dynamic is the monster sets since different ones can be useful in different scenarios, but that almost always come down to warden or thurvokun anyway (no, blood spawn is not the best tanking set).

But you're maybe talking about vet dungeon non dlc runs, then you could go in naked if you want.

Talking about a mix of stuff at this point, since no one locked it down.

The big stumbling block for body set utility is still the heavy armor, though if you're thinking of Ebon as utility and not survival/support, I guess we're on the same page.