idk wrote: »

Ironically Zos has hired one of the best players in the game, one that often gave critical feedback to Zos openly via his content creation. Via the forums I had seen he no longer raids at the high level anymore and seems to not be experiencing the latest mechanics in CR.

Seems though with the heavy weight addition things did not change.

kargen27 wrote: »

If this is the worst ever why are you still playing? If you are not playing why do you care?

Because it is go back to kindergarten with games like WoW and FF or stay here.

While Zos is tasked with trying to manage a much more complicated system than more MMORPGs have with all the skill line choices we all have access to, they do seem to lack a vision which seems to be the reason Zos makes such heavy handed changes.

I still say the issue is clearly at the top. The game launched over 4 years ago in a barely playable state which was clearly due to organizational issues and a lack of focus/vision.

We have seen very heavy handed changes starting with 1.6 through Morrowind and to this recent update. Each seemingly based on an incoherent vision.

But most of us stay because the alternatives are worse for now.

this is such a hilarious way of attacking someone for being employed by ZoS. Gillium is a mechanics god and suggesting because he now works for ZoS he is now 'out of the loop' is a rage against the machine reaction. ZoS employees are very well aware of how this game works on every level from pve to pvp. Some of the best players work for ZoS and you and others who suggest otherwise are rediculous. What you want is 2 seperate games one that evolves to a point where everything is 'ok' enough to be dumped on the public. The problem is historically in MMOs when this approach has been done when the changes are put into the games the community just abandons the product. As such the design doctrine has been the baby steps meta rotation ever since. Both blizzard and ZoS do this very well. And as always both communities complain whole heartedly about it but it is still the best way to iterate. Get over it.

I think they are doing the best they can, after all they are human like me and you. So they are entitled to messed up. ESO is a big game with lots of parts. They at least are trying maybe not how or where you or I would like but at least the game is not static.

iiYuki wrote: »

Its clear they dont play their own game when they come out with comments like:
- "We want players to make interesting choices when making damage shield builds." [to make healers required / PVP nerf]
- "...another part of the reason that Nightblade DPS was too high" [compared with other classes DPS too high in a PVE game]
- "DPS was higher than intended" [compared with other classes, DPS too high in a PVE game]
- " Previously, if you didn’t use the Feral Guardian Ultimate, your damage was lower than other classes" [30% nerf instead of 30% buff to other ultimates]
- "providing too much power relative to other available choices" [so we nerfed it instead of buffing the other choices]

I don't think ZO$ realise that there will always be a BIS set, always be a best ultimate, best skill, best rotation, best class etc and there will always be people who follow these guides and setups to reach the top, do the best DPS possible, be the best healer and tank. honestly think ZO$ should just go with an idea and stick to it and make the class system rigid.

this is the exact example i am refering to in my above post. ZoS absolutely realizes there will be BIS and always the best ultimate and always the best this and that etc because they design these metas and then players evolve and max the metas and then zos adjusts the metas up or down based on the best players and the worst players. Had you personally been one of these players you would KNOW this. Yet here you are.

Vapirko wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Ironically Zos has hired one of the best players in the game, one that often gave critical feedback to Zos openly via his content creation. Via the forums I had seen he no longer raids at the high level anymore and seems to not be experiencing the latest mechanics in CR.

Seems though with the heavy weight addition things did not change.

kargen27 wrote: »

If this is the worst ever why are you still playing? If you are not playing why do you care?

Because it is go back to kindergarten with games like WoW and FF or stay here.

While Zos is tasked with trying to manage a much more complicated system than more MMORPGs have with all the skill line choices we all have access to, they do seem to lack a vision which seems to be the reason Zos makes such heavy handed changes.

I still say the issue is clearly at the top. The game launched over 4 years ago in a barely playable state which was clearly due to organizational issues and a lack of focus/vision.

We have seen very heavy handed changes starting with 1.6 through Morrowind and to this recent update. Each seemingly based on an incoherent vision.

But most of us stay because the alternatives are worse for now.

People should stop blaming things on Gilliame. The guy gave us all a *** ton of his time and energy over the years and improved the gaming experience of many. And understandably he made the choice to move on in his career. That all aside he’s been working there like what, a year now? It’s highly unlikely he even has all that much say. For all we know he may in fact be responsible for some of the better changes. And even if he does have a lot of say he’s still part of the same team that’s been doing this the same way for years. Anyway just seems pretty disrespectful and jerky.

Many saw in the hiring a big chance that the combat changes will get better but the last update was one of the worst the game has ever seen. I really hope the will get their sh*** together and improve the game till then the best would be to take a break from this game

It is like brand new game every time. Every 3 months your class becomes weaker and more useless.

Few years down the line, we will all be so nerfed that all you will need it one light attack to kill another player.

Vapirko wrote: »

killahsin wrote: »

@vapirko it's more the case design doctrines in games like this are generally 6 months or more at a time over the course of one iterative process to reach a long term design change goal. It is extremly hard for a player inside the ecosphere to see the vision of the sphere as a whole as such this type of disenfranchisement can take hold of players, especially in meta games that combine nerf design styles. Ebb and flow principles of balancing the war with power creep vs power reduction while also moving forward in iterative design. There is a reason i decided to build rollercoasters and theme parks instead of making virtual games. Because managing metas is a headache.

Well don’t get me wrong, I think that the overall direction of ZOS towards PvP in particular has been remarkably short sighted, even taking into account how difficult it must be. I’m just saying it’s not fair to keep dragging Gilliame into this. But yes I’m sure it’s a headache to keep everyone happy.

Thankfully the game is not designed around PvP but rather PVE Solo-Group-Raid and RvR utility and more recently 4v4v4.

ak_pvp wrote: »

They are completely and utterly incapable of making a balanced game.

That you expect a game like ESO to be balanced simply illustrates you have unrealistic expectations and don't really understand balance in games.

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I think they are doing the best they can, after all they are human like me and you. So they are entitled to messed up.

If I "messed up" as much as they do with such alarming frequency I would have been fired ages ago and sued several times over now. This level of mismanagement is chronic.

While the OP doesn't have anything I can quote, it is not completely wrong.

I am sure that the Combat Team works very hard, and has lots of data and figures that support every change that they make, but there has been a problem on the Combat Team since the beginning. I don't know what the problem is, to be precise about it, but there is something "off" about what they are doing.

In the past, I have noticed that they seem to be directionless. Lately, they seem to be trying to standardize things, but I would have certainly hoped that was something they started with, not something worked in 4 years later. I fear that what this resulted in was "spreadsheet-driven change", where they make a change on a spreadsheet or whiteboard that shows wonderful things, then try to figure out a way to wedge that into the game somehow. Lacking a clear plan, with limits, we get strange things popping up. Some of these are approved of by the community, so I won't mention specifics, but popularity does not make it fit into the puzzle any better.

I don't think they are incompetent, and I don't think they ignore what the players say, but something is off. The best that I can come up with is that they don't have a plan that they feel comfortable sticking to, so they keep tossing the plan out and making a new one. They seem disorganized. Flibbertigibbet. Scatterbrained. Lacking in concentration.

I am sure they are none of those things, but even when reading the Developer Comments in the patch notes, it seems that way. My hope is that @ZOS_RobGarrett sees this and is helping fix it. Maybe it is his hand that is driving the "standardization" work.

I do want to add one thing though. It is a puzzle, as many have noticed, and a lot of people forget that whatever suggestions that they have need to fit into the puzzle. ZOS "listening" to people is as much of a problem as ZOS not listening to people, if they don't have a master architecture that defines what pieces can be in the puzzle. It is that last part that I don't think is quite solidly there.

lordrichter wrote: »

While the OP doesn't have anything I can quote, it is not completely wrong.

I am sure that the Combat Team works very hard, and has lots of data and figures that support every change that they make, but there has been a problem on the Combat Team since the beginning. I don't know what the problem is, to be precise about it, but there is something "off" about what they are doing.

In the past, I have noticed that they seem to be directionless. Lately, they seem to be trying to standardize things, but I would have certainly hoped that was something they started with, not something worked in 4 years later. I fear that what this resulted in was "spreadsheet-driven change", where they make a change on a spreadsheet or whiteboard that shows wonderful things, then try to figure out a way to wedge that into the game somehow. Lacking a clear plan, with limits, we get strange things popping up. Some of these are approved of by the community, so I won't mention specifics, but popularity does not make it fit into the puzzle any better.

I don't think they are incompetent, and I don't think they ignore what the players say, but something is off. The best that I can come up with is that they don't have a plan that they feel comfortable sticking to, so they keep tossing the plan out and making a new one. They seem disorganized. Flibbertigibbet. Scatterbrained. Lacking in concentration.

I am sure they are none of those things, but even when reading the Developer Comments in the patch notes, it seems that way. My hope is that @ZOS_RobGarrett sees this and is helping fix it. Maybe it is his hand that is driving the "standardization" work.

I do want to add one thing though. It is a puzzle, as many have noticed, and a lot of people forget that whatever suggestions that they have need to fit into the puzzle. ZOS "listening" to people is as much of a problem as ZOS not listening to people, if they don't have a master architecture that defines what pieces can be in the puzzle. It is that last part that I don't think is quite solidly there.

This is a post i agree with in principle. The team needs to broadcast the long term goals better and why they are iterating the way they are at various stages. There also will be fundamental issues with giving a view like this to the community though is that the theoretical maximums will abuse this insight even further. In the og days ZoS did this to a degree with the top tier guilds but the community complained about that. And so the silence began, now the approach is the reps and the community is now complaining about that as well. It is a fundamental no win situation. What I hope is that Garret can bring a better set of over-reaching design principle to the table that change the way in which the end user perceives the changes which is by no means an easy task. As far as the standardization of things that has been ongoing for almost all 4 years now as the players have cried that into being. The homogenization of the player base is not something i like at all in a game that has RvR in it.