Vet PUG: You are pulling 65%+ DPS, do you vote kick the other DPS (low CP)?

LeagueTroll · October 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

The responses in this thread are priceless and illustrate the class hierarchy in our fine country.

The CP121 guy wasnt strong or experienced enough to complete the content, but he queued anyway in hopes of getting a carry. (liberal poor)

I'm CP500 and as stated wasn't strong enough to carry him but have done this vet many times. After trouble on early trash and a wipe, either the healer or tank initiated the kick. We aren't elite but we knew our roles and just wanted to get through the dungeon and get our daily reward (middle class conservative).

The CP780 guys who relish their ability to carry the group and serve as mentors/teachers. Those who believe it is compassion to make half of the team suffer with a time consuming clear. They believe anyone who wants a helmet should have one. They attempt to impose their value system on the middle-class(CP) people, even shaming them for expecting everyone to pull their own weight. (liberal elite).

I have 1000+ cp and i still like to kick free loaders. You simply can not carry any trash on a tank. And i do most my pve on tank. I not only expect ppl carry their own weight. I shame and flame the ppl who don't.

raj72616a · October 2018

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I’m actually hesitant on trying dungeons and stuff because I’m a new player, plus with all the threads screaming about fake tanks and people kicking others, it kinda pushes me away more.

One day I’ll try it, just not today.

@Reistr_the_Unbroken
don't mind the forum, it's a different community compared to the ingame one. most pug are rather lenient and ppl don't really kick that often.

i could queue for vet pledge as tank with 18k health and no one call me out most of the time. maybe i get kicked once in 50 groups. it's pretty rare.
and many ppl dont even use combat metric addon and are unaware of the group's total dps.

newtinmpls · October 2018

ghastley wrote: »

Don't kick, teach. Especially if there's one glaring mistake that's being repeated. If everyone kick the learners, they don't finish learning.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I'm just trying to get a daily done, and didnt have 3 hours to teach someone.

What ended up happening is that the DPS we replaced him with was better (at least on trash), but also a very low CP. We wiped on Grobull and I left the group because I wasted the available time on the first dps.

Besides, I'm not sure if I'm good enough to carry someone or explain a proper rotation? Is there a baseline CP for vets where its just not worthwhile?

I would encourage you to pick one reason.

If you don't have enough time, and you think that the group can finish, but not at your preferred speed, then leave. As you used "three hours" as your max time, the 15 min wait to start a new group should not be a problem.

"Good enough to carry someone" - again do you think that the group could have finished? No, stop trying to parse it as who was doing how much - could the group have finished, if yes, then apparently yes.

"Explain a proper rotation" Well you came here to complain about the situation. I suspect you have the linguistic abilities to explain what your rotation was. So that's not an impossible task.

Some general questions:

Immediately at the start of the dungeon group, did you go into /p (group chat) and explain your situation/time-frame? It could be as simple as "I only have 40 min, so I'm wanting to do this quickly".

You always have options and choices.

ccfeeling · October 2018

Non dlc, i would stay because actually i could solo them all
DLC, i would leave

MaxJrFTW · October 2018

If i vote kicked for this i'd have to kick people from every dungeon i run. I would never kick someone when i do 65% of the dps, i don't expect random players to be as good as me. I only do this in vet dungeons with bad fake tanks and bad fake healers.

Agenericname · October 2018

qbit wrote: »

I’m gonna queue up for vet pug tonight but not be random. I’ll select so no dlc is included. Just to troll the elitist tryhards with my really awful 27k DPS at level CP 340

Problem is not my DPS. Problem is not knowing or remembering mechanics. That’s your bigger issue, OP

You'll probably be disappointed to learn that the majority of the conversations in the dungeons comprise mostly of; "LF <insert set piece here>", maybe a "hello", and maybe a "tyfg" at the end.

Jeremy · October 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

This happened last night. DC2. After we kicked him we were actually doing better because he was not sopping up any heals.

If I was elite and had trial gear, I probably could have carried him, but I didn't see that as an option.

So at what level of DPS do you vote kick the other DPS? If I was doing 65%, then that means he was doing 15-20% ?

Also, I've noticed that late-night is when all the fail-pugs happen. Prime-time, everyone is just trying to complete dailies. My new rule, no pugging after 9pm.

I say no.

So long as the player is actually dpsing and trying I wouldn't vote to kick. That being said: I'm going to assume DC2 (why can't people just type out the name, lord) = Darkshade Caverns 2? If that is the case, that's not an easy dungeon and the flying squid boss does require competent damage dealers. So if the bad damage dealer was actually impeding your group's progress and preventing you from reaching the next boss I can't fault your group for removing him, even though I personally would not have. But that's just me.

ecru · October 2018

i pull 65-70 in just about any pug. i'm glad if i'm anywhere close to 50. never once voted to kick anyone besides the 15k hp tank in a vet dungeon without a taunt. kicking someone because you're doing more dps than them in a pug is a pretty terrible thing to do imo.

ImmortalCX · October 2018

newtinmpls wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

Don't kick, teach. Especially if there's one glaring mistake that's being repeated. If everyone kick the learners, they don't finish learning.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I'm just trying to get a daily done, and didnt have 3 hours to teach someone.

What ended up happening is that the DPS we replaced him with was better (at least on trash), but also a very low CP. We wiped on Grobull and I left the group because I wasted the available time on the first dps.

Besides, I'm not sure if I'm good enough to carry someone or explain a proper rotation? Is there a baseline CP for vets where its just not worthwhile?

I would encourage you to pick one reason.

If you don't have enough time, and you think that the group can finish, but not at your preferred speed, then leave. As you used "three hours" as your max time, the 15 min wait to start a new group should not be a problem.

"Good enough to carry someone" - again do you think that the group could have finished? No, stop trying to parse it as who was doing how much - could the group have finished, if yes, then apparently yes.

"Explain a proper rotation" Well you came here to complain about the situation. I suspect you have the linguistic abilities to explain what your rotation was. So that's not an impossible task.

Some general questions:

Immediately at the start of the dungeon group, did you go into /p (group chat) and explain your situation/time-frame? It could be as simple as "I only have 40 min, so I'm wanting to do this quickly".

You always have options and choices.

Group couldn't have finished with that dps. When someone says they "didn't have three hours", that means it might have been possible in three hours of trying, but due to time constraints it was not worth it to anyone there.

Its crazy when people parse what you write and try to interpret hidden meaning, motive, intent, malice, whatever... when they should be focused on remembering to take their meds.

Facefister · October 2018

ghastley wrote: »

Don't kick, teach. Especially if there's one glaring mistake that's being repeated. If everyone kick the learners, they don't finish learning.

If you go that way, you'll end up teaching every single random dungeon you run.

D0PAMINE · October 2018

I was never kicked for low DPS or for not knowing mechanics. If I notice im pulling the weight, I form a plan that I post in chat, and we just kill the boss as efficiently as possible. I don't care what they do as long as we finish and I can leave. I rarely have the luxury of a speed run unless I form my own crew.

newtinmpls · October 2018

ghastley wrote: »

Don't kick, teach. Especially if there's one glaring mistake that's being repeated. If everyone kick the learners, they don't finish learning.

Facefister wrote: »

If you go that way, you'll end up teaching every single random dungeon you run.

Cool. There would be a whole lot of learning going on.

Lumenn · October 2018

Facefister wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

Don't kick, teach. Especially if there's one glaring mistake that's being repeated. If everyone kick the learners, they don't finish learning.

If you go that way, you'll end up teaching every single random dungeon you run.

Shouldn't that kinda be the point? It might even be you that learns something new(it has been me in other games, despite years and top in raids) some of us may even listen and be grateful, and next time we meet in a pug, you have more people pulling their weight.

heaven13 · October 2018

Reading through this thread, it seems like OP came in wanting validation and, when it wasn't received, got defensive.

As for myself, I've only agreed to vote-kick someone a couple times: every single time was a "tank" with approximately 18k health and a bow who wasn't tanking and we were wiping. If we can get through the content, I stick with it, even if it takes a few tries. I carry plenty of soul gems and repair kits, am happy to share if needed. If the others are trying and adapting to mechanics, I'm happy to take the time to see it through. If my time is limited to "need to get in and out", I just don't pug. Simple as that.

MLGProPlayer · October 2018

Non-DLC dungeons are easy to carry so I don't normally kick anyone. I had a PUG once where I was doing something like 87% of team DPS.

MLGProPlayer · October 2018

ghastley wrote: »

Don't kick, teach. Especially if there's one glaring mistake that's being repeated. If everyone kick the learners, they don't finish learning.

You can't teach complex combat mechanics by typing instructions to someone. At the very least, you'd need voice chat, which we don't have on PC. But even if there was voice chat, teaching someone how to play on the fly like that would be difficult as they are missing the fundamentals.

Trinity_Is_My_Name · October 2018

I wouldn't kick anyone as long as they are trying and the group was progressing through it. Especially DC2 in Vet. When the new players get to the flying squid boss fight and then the Bot Army followed by the mech bot Spider boss...well, it's awesome!

Lifemocker · October 2018

Won't kick someone even if I'd be doing 99% of the damage. Only kick when the player is messing up the mechanics and not willing to listen to advice.

Ajantisz · October 2018

No. If they are obeying the mechanics and the dungeon is being cleared I dont care if they have half my dps. I can pull 50k, I dont get upset because someone can only do 25k in a vet dungeon.

MehrunesFlagon · October 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Unless it is a vet DLC I can carry the DPS load so I wouldn't kick them.

Exactly this ^

Why bother kicking them if you can just carry the run anyway? Ultimately by kicking them you're just being a Grade A *******.

I hate elitism so much.

If your dps is more than acceptable there si no reason to kick them.unless it's like 5-10k.

Cage_Lizardman · October 2018

Naeh, doing 65% dps wouldn't worry me by itself even in a vet dlc. At about 70% I would at least point out that he might want more dps before trying vet dlc dungeons. And no, a Zaan helmet will not turn your 10k into 20k.

Odnoc · October 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

Don't kick, teach. Especially if there's one glaring mistake that's being repeated. If everyone kick the learners, they don't finish learning.

I'm just trying to get a daily done, and didnt have 3 hours to teach someone.

If you’re doing 65% of the DPS and it would take you 3 hours to complete the dungeon, sounds like you’re not up to par yourself... I could be the only DPS and still clear the most of the dungeons in less than 1/3 of that.

FlyingSwan · October 2018

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I’m actually hesitant on trying dungeons and stuff because I’m a new player, plus with all the threads screaming about fake tanks and people kicking others, it kinda pushes me away more.

One day I’ll try it, just not today.

Forums are always full of big mouths, why do you think they are on the forums instead of playing the game?

I PUG vet dungeons all the time and since ESO's release, I have met perhaps 4 toxic players at the most. I usually either tank the dungeon, and if the DPS is weak I will either switch my gear/skills to provide more damage support, or if it's really low, politely say I am leaving and state my reasons (basically don't want to be in there all night), or I DPS it and then I invariably do 65% or more of the DPS, but then I am CP810 so I expect this, it's no big drama, we all get through the dungeon. Sometimes I will heal, but it's so boring in this game and is not really needed for most 4-man content anyway.

I am on PC EU and all I can say is, don't let the idiotic comments you read on a forum mislead you into thinking people behave like this in the game, IME they do not.

Runschei · October 2018

Will vote to kick if we cannot make it through the dungeon and if the other dd repeatedly refuses to read chat after I have explained it in Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, English, German and sometimes I will go the extra mile to get it in French or Italian too.

An_An · October 2018

This reminds me of kindergarten when no one wanted to play with me because I wasn’t good at sports.*

Assuming OP is asking this question due to moral conflict. If so, GJ, you have a conscience.

It’s just a game folks. We aren’t all going to be Fengrush or Alcast. No matter how much skills/achievements you grind. Be nice to people and enjoy your game. Make some friends. In real life, if the four of you can’t do a task, do you normally start associating blame on one person who is bringing the group down? No man. Even if that is the case you suck it up and try to be a team. Win together, lose together. Good luck metaphorically kicking everyone out of your real life tasks if they don’t do as much metaphorical DPS as you . See where that gets you.

Personally i do okay on dungeons. But if someone throws elitist attitude at other group members, I ask them “Hey if you know so much why are you playing with us?”. They say “Okay” and leave. That leaves our fully functioning group to fill that slot with someone nicer. (PS - I made a really good friend this way in game). Stand up for this kind of *** if you see it. Toxic people are so common in MMOs , and that’s cuz the MMO community rewards them for being elite (and vice versa). Gotta show them that being an elite in game doesn’t give them superiority over people.

(*No actually, I did okay and made some friends)

Azurya · October 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

This happened last night. DC2. After we kicked him we were actually doing better because he was not sopping up any heals.

If I was elite and had trial gear, I probably could have carried him, but I didn't see that as an option.

So at what level of DPS do you vote kick the other DPS? If I was doing 65%, then that means he was doing 15-20% ?

Also, I've noticed that late-night is when all the fail-pugs happen. Prime-time, everyone is just trying to complete dailies. My new rule, no pugging after 9pm.

that is exactly why I skipped the dmg counter when doing just lfg-stuff, it will take 5 to 10 minutes longer to do,but we made someone happy. Only if one doesn´t fight along and is constantly searching for a chest and the like, he gets a kick, but as long as they work along, they can stay.
Long ago we started too, with nothing, remember!

The_Sadist · October 2018

I often dip if I'm on a tank or healer and we struggle from a DPS perspective at the first boss, but I rarely initiate a vote to kick. When I'm on my DPS I often mention to the party our damage is low and try to help our other DPS with spells and rotations (I had a maxed CP Sorc hardcasting crystal fragments for a whole dungeon, that was fun). If they don't communicate or get overly toxic about some constructive criticism I will try and kick them. If that fails I dip, as I'd rather not waste an hour of my life in a 15 minute dungeon. More often than not what really gets me is people queuing for vet dungeons instead of learning the mechanics first in a normal dungeon. Sure, I will try and teach you, but once we wipe 4 or 5 times because you're CP 92 and have never done the dungeon before, I'm out.

People are so quick to shout and moan about players being elite, but the reality is if you can't hold your own in group content, why are you doing it?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If I vote kicked the other DPS every time I was doing 65% of group DPS, I would never get through a vet dungeon, as that is pretty much par for the course.

I actually think you need to look inward on this one. If you are a 50K DPS, you will often see numbers like 65%+ of group DPS. If that's the case, accept the fact that you going to carry people most of the time you use group finder. Finish the Dungeon (you have plenty of damage) and maybe make some friends in a decent guild.

If you are say a 25K DPS, and you are pulling 65% of group DPS, well, I would be careful of throwing stones in your glass house. What happens when you get paired with a 50k DPS and (s)he does the same thing?

We aren't wiping and getting stuck on trash in the second scenario. Thats the difference.

So you are okay with being carried,
but don’t want to do the heavy lifting yourself. Got it. One competent DPS is enough for just about any 4man trash pull in this game. I think your group had bigger issues than one low DPS, but admittedly, I wasn’t there.

ImmortalCX · October 2018

Youre hanging o

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If I vote kicked the other DPS every time I was doing 65% of group DPS, I would never get through a vet dungeon, as that is pretty much par for the course.

I actually think you need to look inward on this one. If you are a 50K DPS, you will often see numbers like 65%+ of group DPS. If that's the case, accept the fact that you going to carry people most of the time you use group finder. Finish the Dungeon (you have plenty of damage) and maybe make some friends in a decent guild.

If you are say a 25K DPS, and you are pulling 65% of group DPS, well, I would be careful of throwing stones in your glass house. What happens when you get paired with a 50k DPS and (s)he does the same thing?

We aren't wiping and getting stuck on trash in the second scenario. Thats the difference.

So you are okay with being carried,
but don’t want to do the heavy lifting yourself. Got it. One competent DPS is enough for just about any 4man trash pull in this game. I think your group had bigger issues than one low DPS, but admittedly, I wasn’t there.

No, being 25K dps is not being carried. When paired with someone of equal (or even less) skill, there is no problem.

Basic. Logic. Skills. Learn. Them.

idk · October 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If I vote kicked the other DPS every time I was doing 65% of group DPS, I would never get through a vet dungeon, as that is pretty much par for the course.

I actually think you need to look inward on this one. If you are a 50K DPS, you will often see numbers like 65%+ of group DPS. If that's the case, accept the fact that you going to carry people most of the time you use group finder. Finish the Dungeon (you have plenty of damage) and maybe make some friends in a decent guild.

If you are say a 25K DPS, and you are pulling 65% of group DPS, well, I would be careful of throwing stones in your glass house. What happens when you get paired with a 50k DPS and (s)he does the same thing?

This pretty much sums it up. Further, those that are truly solid DPS would not be kicking someone just because their dps is not so great as long as the other person is not actually causing problems.

This thread seems more about bragging than anything else.