Vet PUG: You are pulling 65%+ DPS, do you vote kick the other DPS (low CP)?

templesus

If they even look like they don’t pull DPS I’m voting to kick.

Call me what you want, elitist, ***, anything this is a video game words over a screen are harmless. In the end I payed for the game so I decide how I want to spend my time. I was never “taught” by other people in a dungeon as I’ve played since launch and always utilized YouTube, which takes roughly 30 seconds to find a guide for damn near everything.

No excuse for new players to not get with program when there are a billion guides on the internet. I’ll kindly type in chat alcasthq.com then proceed to kick them.

ImmortalCX

idk wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This thread seems more about bragging than anything else.

I haven't been around these parts very long. I thought we could have an adult conversation about the etiquette of vote-kicking very low DPS. I was wrong.

Ten stars and constant passive aggression. Where is the ignore button?

Agenericname

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Youre hanging o

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If I vote kicked the other DPS every time I was doing 65% of group DPS, I would never get through a vet dungeon, as that is pretty much par for the course.

I actually think you need to look inward on this one. If you are a 50K DPS, you will often see numbers like 65%+ of group DPS. If that's the case, accept the fact that you going to carry people most of the time you use group finder. Finish the Dungeon (you have plenty of damage) and maybe make some friends in a decent guild.

If you are say a 25K DPS, and you are pulling 65% of group DPS, well, I would be careful of throwing stones in your glass house. What happens when you get paired with a 50k DPS and (s)he does the same thing?

We aren't wiping and getting stuck on trash in the second scenario. Thats the difference.

So you are okay with being carried,
but don’t want to do the heavy lifting yourself. Got it. One competent DPS is enough for just about any 4man trash pull in this game. I think your group had bigger issues than one low DPS, but admittedly, I wasn’t there.

No, being 25K dps is not being carried. When paired with someone of equal (or even less) skill, there is no problem.

Basic. Logic. Skills. Learn. Them.

If it's 35% or less of the group's DPS, then what? The OP doesnt specify a minimum threshold, only a percentage relative to the group.

You can easily be carried with 25k DPS.

JJBoomer

Nope. Unless that person is performing "badly" on purpose, which is more than obvious when it's happening and RARELY ever happens. I don't kick anyone, because everyone should be allowed to enjoy this game's content. Because I'm not a piece of crap that thinks lower cp, lower dps players don't deserve to enjoy certain content, and should be blocked from it. Those are the worst kind of gamers tbh. The ones that give gaming a bad reputation.

If I find myself in a party where we can't complete the content, I accept that we won't finish, thank everyone for giving it their all, and move on. I don't come onto the forums and complain about other players, because that's a pathetic waste of time.

But go off I guess.

kylewwefan

I’m gonna keep carrying on like there’s no problem. Until there’s a problem. Then most likely I’ll leave. Cause that’s how I roll.

idk

ImmortalCX wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This thread seems more about bragging than anything else.

I haven't been around these parts very long. I thought we could have an adult conversation about the etiquette of vote-kicking very low DPS. I was wrong.

Ten stars and constant passive aggression. Where is the ignore button?

Dude, you kicked someone because they did not do enough damage to suite your taste. That is often referred to elitism.

You are not going to get a candy coated conversation in the forums.

LOL, it was also good how you edited out the rest of what you quoted to suite your reply better. Since you brought up passive aggression.

Just curious. As you suggesting I follow your example and kick the next person who is only pulling 30k dps because they are not pulling their half?

Danksta

Is there even any DPS races in DC2? None I can think of. If there is they must be pretty mild. What was considered solid DPS when these dungeons dropped? I imagine 25k or maybe even less.

idk

Danksta wrote: »

Is there even any DPS races in DC2? None I can think of. If there is they must be pretty mild. What was considered solid DPS when these dungeons dropped? I imagine 25k or maybe even less.

When Darkshade Caverns 2 droped it was called vet Darkshade Cavern and DPS was more like a few thousand. A mere fraction of 25k.

The dungeons actually offered a small challenge back then if DPS was not sufficient. The netch fight would overrun the group with the adds if they had bad AoE DPS.

Even with the rebalancing of all the dungeons DC2 has been nerfed to the ground. I think it would be really hard for a group to have difficulty even on vet.

GreasyDave

If it's not DLC , don't kick. I'm no end game dps but I run in pugs when I'm doing 65 percent damage sometimes. Just remember when you were only pulling 35 percent of the damage and ask yourself how you'd have felt if someone had kicked you for it.

I sometimes run with pugs or guildies on DLC content where the other DD is SOO much better than me it's frightening - the cool dudes are the ones for who it is no big deal. It's a group effort. Help the guy out. Carry him as you got carried once.

zaria

Agenericname wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Youre hanging o

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If I vote kicked the other DPS every time I was doing 65% of group DPS, I would never get through a vet dungeon, as that is pretty much par for the course.

I actually think you need to look inward on this one. If you are a 50K DPS, you will often see numbers like 65%+ of group DPS. If that's the case, accept the fact that you going to carry people most of the time you use group finder. Finish the Dungeon (you have plenty of damage) and maybe make some friends in a decent guild.

If you are say a 25K DPS, and you are pulling 65% of group DPS, well, I would be careful of throwing stones in your glass house. What happens when you get paired with a 50k DPS and (s)he does the same thing?

We aren't wiping and getting stuck on trash in the second scenario. Thats the difference.

So you are okay with being carried,
but don’t want to do the heavy lifting yourself. Got it. One competent DPS is enough for just about any 4man trash pull in this game. I think your group had bigger issues than one low DPS, but admittedly, I wasn’t there.

No, being 25K dps is not being carried. When paired with someone of equal (or even less) skill, there is no problem.

Basic. Logic. Skills. Learn. Them.

If it's 35% or less of the group's DPS, then what? The OP doesnt specify a minimum threshold, only a percentage relative to the group.

You can easily be carried with 25k DPS.

True, however 55K dps is more than enough to clear all dlc dungeons, more makes it easier obviously.
Also if you kick the DD the next will probably be worse, 25K is decent in an pug.

I assume this was with finder, if it was zone and you asked for an good DD for a DLC HM run this changes.

FlyingSwan

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I haven't been around these parts very long. I thought we could have an adult conversation about the etiquette of vote-kicking very low DPS. I was wrong.

Ten stars and constant passive aggression. Where is the ignore button?

Bottom line here is that vDC2 is an easy dungeon where high DPS is not a requirement, it's also pretty much the rule that any moderately skilled player with good CP investment and properly thought out gear will be pulling the majority of the DPS in a PUG. It's just how it is. I main a tank but run Blood Moon, Hundings and Kena (so non-trial gear) on my DPS alt and usually pull most of the DPS in vet content by just using light attacks as a werewolf, simply because I thought about complementary gear and passives.

For me personally, once I started to see that I was pulling 50, 55, 60, and upwards percent of DPS in Combat Meter, I simply thought, "thank god, I am finally getting quite good at this game". I think it takes a special kind of person to then make the leap to, "OMG, I must suddenly start kicking everyone!!!"

Now, if you were competing in a trial and constantly carrying others, you might have a reason for thinking in this way, but vDC2, come on, reality check required.

Jamdarius

Waffennacht wrote: »

Kicked, aint got no time for something they should already know

That is just being an a*s or trying to be so called elite... You wanna have clear dung with no bad stuff or not having to teach new guys so just go with friends or guildies... If you have neither go make some that play at same time as you are and leave teaching and spending time with so called newbies to other players... Remember that the faster we teach them the longer they stay in game because they got some help and somebody showed them how to do stuff. Now because of how you acted he or she may say: Let's drop the game, I cannot find anyone willing to help me understand a single dungeon, and I got kicked for it.

Try hard to remember when you were newbie with no clue about naything, it is not hard to imagine how you would feel...

Dojohoda

Depends on how badly the team is doing. I'd rather carry than kick, but if the dungeon cannot be completed, such as a very challenging dlc, then maybe I would leave group. I'd feel badly about it though.

Sylvis

I was in a group similar to the one you describe, except I was healer (and my husband was on his tank). We ended up kicking the higher DPS guy after he continuously talked s*** to us and the other DPS, who was actually trying hard to learn the mechanics and do well. He tried to initiate a vote-kick multiple times throughout the dungeon, including votes to kick both me and the tank. The breaking point was when we got to the last boss and high and mighty s***-talker insisted that we would be unable to finish the dungeon with this newbie in the group. He even went so far as to stand to the side and do nothing as we made the first attempt. So he got booted.

He sent us inflammatory whispers laughing at our predicament until we told him that we'd finished no problem with the replacement DPS that arrived within seconds.

I'm sure you were not being a complete jerk or anything, it's just a satisfying story that I like to share.

yurimodin

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

May I vote kick everyone else if my tank is pulling 15% (12k dps) via burning ember spam while maintaining 100% taunt uptime?

try pulling 47% of the healing on my warden tank during the last battle on nBRF ......I normally don't complain but after 4 wipes and a final victory I smarted off to the healer (I normally don't smart off to the healer because I main a healer and know the job is tough but this was ridiculous)

resdayn00

I generally don't mind as long as we can progress. I mean, I've been there, it takes time to increase DPS. But if we can actually finish within a reasonable time, I don't care. I remember how we could barely progress in vet Wayrest 2 as our dps was incredibly low, both me and the other DD were beginners and I estimate a collective 30-35k dps. A year later I can pull more than that single handedly, because I wasn't kicked and demotivated, I was allowed to practice my rotation in actual content not just a dummy, and see where I had to improve.

Tatanko

magictucktuck wrote: »

As healer i usually do %60 percent of the groups damage, its frustrating lately, and i usually always pug as im not close to any guild members. I'm trying to be more social and get a group group of friends though.

but unless they are also a *** OR its so bad we wont finish in a timely (relative to dungeon) fashion i don't vote kick

@magictucktuck

I PUG'd a dungeon with you just the other day -- maybe last week was it? I remember it being a positive experience, and I think I even commented on your username

Pajor

I am always the person who gets kicked for not having a good dps. Pretty hard to get trial gear when no one will let you come because you don't have trial gear...

I'm not complaining, but sometimes people need to be given a chance to get better instead of making fun of them for not being as good as you.

sudaki_eso

I agree on Comment #3. Other than that i dont vote for kicks at all. I also usually decline if someone wants to kick another player who is doing ok-ish but not perfect. There were two times where the fake tank made the last boss a pain in the ... he got kicked, a real tank fixed the problem. So unless i dont see any chance in completing the dungeon i dont kick a low dps player. I d rather leave the group and try again.

You dont have to teach every mechanic but if you see someone dying from a specific one, explain it to them. When i was doing dc2 for the first time and we came to the netch boss i was dying because i didnt know that he reflects my damage. The max cp guy explained it to me and i never made that mistake again. You would be suprised how many player, even with max cp, dont know all the mechanics. Take the ghost in vault of madness, i never had a single pug group where the whole group made it past the ghost without someone dying...

molecule

I've pulled 75%+ group damage in pug runs before, doesn't bother me.

I've never instigated a vote-kick.

People need to learn through experience, and unlike some 'elites' in this thread, i can still remember being the lowby dps getting a carry by better players - and very grateful i was.

EVERYONE starts as a newby , its just the elites tend to forget this, prefering to think they hit 50k dps whilst leveling their first toon on day 1 - because they are so awesome.

I've got more time for lower level players than i have for **** waving elites

Agenericname

zaria wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Youre hanging o

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If I vote kicked the other DPS every time I was doing 65% of group DPS, I would never get through a vet dungeon, as that is pretty much par for the course.

I actually think you need to look inward on this one. If you are a 50K DPS, you will often see numbers like 65%+ of group DPS. If that's the case, accept the fact that you going to carry people most of the time you use group finder. Finish the Dungeon (you have plenty of damage) and maybe make some friends in a decent guild.

If you are say a 25K DPS, and you are pulling 65% of group DPS, well, I would be careful of throwing stones in your glass house. What happens when you get paired with a 50k DPS and (s)he does the same thing?

We aren't wiping and getting stuck on trash in the second scenario. Thats the difference.

So you are okay with being carried,
but don’t want to do the heavy lifting yourself. Got it. One competent DPS is enough for just about any 4man trash pull in this game. I think your group had bigger issues than one low DPS, but admittedly, I wasn’t there.

No, being 25K dps is not being carried. When paired with someone of equal (or even less) skill, there is no problem.

Basic. Logic. Skills. Learn. Them.

If it's 35% or less of the group's DPS, then what? The OP doesnt specify a minimum threshold, only a percentage relative to the group.

You can easily be carried with 25k DPS.

True, however 55K dps is more than enough to clear all dlc dungeons, more makes it easier obviously.
Also if you kick the DD the next will probably be worse, 25K is decent in an pug.

I assume this was with finder, if it was zone and you asked for an good DD for a DLC HM run this changes.

I didnt say I'd kick anyone, but 25k in some groups is a small contribution. There are some heavy hitters out there. The ones I've ran into havent been eager to kick. They're gonna clear and they know it, but it's entirely possible to pull 25k DPS and still have the rest of the group carrying the weight.

NyassaV

I don't kick anyone unless it's a problem. If they are stopping you from clearing then you do what you gotta do.

LeagueTroll

Agenericname wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Youre hanging o

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If I vote kicked the other DPS every time I was doing 65% of group DPS, I would never get through a vet dungeon, as that is pretty much par for the course.

I actually think you need to look inward on this one. If you are a 50K DPS, you will often see numbers like 65%+ of group DPS. If that's the case, accept the fact that you going to carry people most of the time you use group finder. Finish the Dungeon (you have plenty of damage) and maybe make some friends in a decent guild.

If you are say a 25K DPS, and you are pulling 65% of group DPS, well, I would be careful of throwing stones in your glass house. What happens when you get paired with a 50k DPS and (s)he does the same thing?

We aren't wiping and getting stuck on trash in the second scenario. Thats the difference.

So you are okay with being carried,
but don’t want to do the heavy lifting yourself. Got it. One competent DPS is enough for just about any 4man trash pull in this game. I think your group had bigger issues than one low DPS, but admittedly, I wasn’t there.

No, being 25K dps is not being carried. When paired with someone of equal (or even less) skill, there is no problem.

Basic. Logic. Skills. Learn. Them.

If it's 35% or less of the group's DPS, then what? The OP doesnt specify a minimum threshold, only a percentage relative to the group.

You can easily be carried with 25k DPS.

Ofc you can be easily carried with 25k dps. Thing is op is the one doing just 25k.

CatchMeTrolling

I’m really against kicking people for noob behavior, I’ll kick someone for something like being toxic. I usually just carry the dungeon if I know I can and I’m not even a pve player. At best I’ll just leave if I know we’re not going to get anywhere.

MashmalloMan

Usually just carry personally. My dps Has shot up like crazy the last couple of updates so running pugs is never a problem. It's only annoying when you get to the last boss and your group wants to skip HM for the 2 keys because the dps or tank is newer and can't survive it.

Usually try HM 3-4 times before I call it quits and bite the bullet for normal. It's been very rare that we don't manage to beat HM and it's honestly fun trying to get your group through it. I just don't want to spend 3 hours on a dungeon.

Bouldercleave

Waffennacht wrote: »

Kicked, aint got no time for something they should already know

This is why I don't typically group. The expectation is that you should know everything before you set foot somewhere or get kicked.

Chrysa1is

Elitists kick. Decent players teach.

MLGProPlayer

Klasen wrote: »

I am always the person who gets kicked for not having a good dps. Pretty hard to get trial gear when no one will let you come because you don't have trial gear...

I'm not complaining, but sometimes people need to be given a chance to get better instead of making fun of them for not being as good as you.

You don't need trial gear for good DPS. Crafted/overland gear is only like 2-3% less DPS. The only trial set significantly stronger than crafted gear is Siroria, but you don't need it to hit competitive DPS numbers.

Julianos + Mother's Sorrow will easily get you over 40k DPS. My warden gets the same DPS whether using Julianos + Necropotence or Master Architect + Necropotence (MA simply gives group utility).

If your DPS is low, the problem is your rotation.

Lyserus

Oh wow

You kicked the other dps, then you left as well?

You are "not sure if you are good enough to teach", but you are good enough to kick?

You know what ppl say about that in bird culture

ImmortalCX

FlyingSwan wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

For me personally, once I started to see that I was pulling 50, 55, 60, and upwards percent of DPS in Combat Meter, I simply thought, "thank god, I am finally getting quite good at this game". I think it takes a special kind of person to then make the leap to, "OMG, I must suddenly start kicking everyone!!!"

It was also a leap to assume that's what I was talking about.

I run Vet Pugs and 85% of the time my dps is 45% or higher. Increasingly I'm seeing 50%+ and often I will out DPS higher CP people. But even when I'm beating a max CP player in DPS, they are still pulling their weight.

I'm talking about a really low CP who is having problems on trash and doesn't seem to be doing anything.

If I was elite I would have no problem carrying bad players, but in my current state I'm not sure that I can, and I don't want a dungeon to take 2+ hours when it should take 15 minutes.