Stamblades Nerfmire Balancing

Bubosh · October 2018

Hello guys! Im just wondering why nobody is complaining about this stamblade meta since summerset.... Stamblades getting always stronger and stronger in cyrodiil there are many stamblades in tanky builds just for example: why they got a "dark Cloak" skill wich gaves them way to much healing over just 3 secs and also minor protection let us say the nb have 25k health its pretty much but lets just take this as example they will get 8k heals over 3 secs thats not the way how balancing works.

Nearly all classes got nerfed by murkmire and medium nbs gonna get also buffed against aoe dmg witch shuffle change???? Total they got a skill for minor protection they got a skill for insane healing over just 3 secs they got spectral bow wich is a skill that makes more dmg than all ultis i would say. Probably they cant even get killed by a 1vs1 anymore if they are good and using shuffle now because all dawnbreakers and aoe ultis gonna be useless.

We can already see how vivec is turning more and more into a nb pvp open world zone since murkmire is out also with this rediculous enchant procc changes. One Keep fight with 10 reds 7 Nbs 3 randoom classes just happened last time when i was trying to pvp. Cyro is getting open world zone for stamblades im pretty interested about the numbers while prime time.... How many Nightblades are logged in instead of other classes. Would be pretty nice to get a anwser about this @ZOS_GinaBruno i know youre may not the right person for this but you can maybe get this into a discussion.

One of my biggest questions is also why nightblades in medium are way harder to kill than any other classes in heavy in my opinion there is no balancing about medium against heavy.......

Sorry for my bad english i tryed my best!

let the flame start

usmguy1234 · October 2018

Bubosh wrote: »

Hello guys! Im just wondering why nobody is complaining about this stamblade meta since summerset.... Stamblades getting always stronger and stronger in cyrodiil there are many stamblades in tanky builds just for example: why they got a "dark Cloak" skill wich gaves them way to much healing over just 3 secs and also minor protection let us say the nb have 25k health its pretty much but lets just take this as example they will get 8k heals over 3 secs thats not the way how balancing works.

Nearly all classes got nerfed by murkmire and medium nbs gonna get also buffed against aoe dmg witch shuffle change???? Total they got a skill for minor protection they got a skill for insane healing over just 3 secs they got spectral bow wich is a skill that makes more dmg than all ultis i would say. Probably they cant even get killed by a 1vs1 anymore if they are good and using shuffle now because all dawnbreakers and aoe ultis gonna be useless.

We can already see how vivec is turning more and more into a nb pvp open world zone since murkmire is out also with this rediculous enchant procc changes. One Keep fight with 10 reds 7 Nbs 3 randoom classes just happened last time when i was trying to pvp. Cyro is getting open world zone for stamblades im pretty interested about the numbers while prime time.... How many Nightblades are logged in instead of other classes. Would be pretty nice to get a anwser about this @ZOS_GinaBruno i know youre may not the right person for this but you can maybe get this into a discussion.

One of my biggest questions is also why nightblades in medium can be way harder to kill than any other classes in heavy in my opinion there is no balancing about medium against heavy.......

Sorry for my bad english i tryed my best!

let the flame start

You either die as another class or live long enough to see yourself become a nightblade.

VaranisArano · October 2018

I'm not complaining, because,

A. I'm pretty sure Nightblades are up next on the chopping block for the nerf hammer

B. I just finally managed to level up a Nightblade past level 20 for the first time despite multiple tries, LOL. I'm just bad at getting into a nightblade's play style,

susmitds · October 2018

Of all the skills, you complain about Dark Cloak. 8k in 3 secs is nothing compared to my 16k Vigor, which can also crit.
When Evasion helped people dodge all of NB attacks, which are all dodgeable, and thereby gave any Shuffle user, basically, a good deal of proctection against any NBs, it was fine apparently. But to do the same against against templars and wardens, is a big no no. People were dropping medium armor NBs and light armor NBs alike with Steel Tornado spam, which ignores both Cloak and Dodge, NB's primary defense but nobody bats an eye. In fact, several people celebrate it. Suddenly, everyone is given 25% AoE reduction and everyone loses their mind, when they realize that NBs won't be free kills for them.
Bow procs require 5 light attacks to proc, is single target and has no debuff. Shalk of wardens is AoE, does major fracture debuff and hits just as hard.

Last buff NB got was back in One Tamriel, two years ago. One by one, all stealth damage tools were nerfed. Bow heavy, camo hunter, empower, stealth damage all gone. But, as long as it is possible to delete people from stealth, NBs will get hate. It is the same hatred that campers and snipers get in FPS games. In every multiple game I played, people always hate the playstyle that wrecks them without being seen and all the people associated with it. Here, in ESO, NBs bear the brunt of the community's hatred for the same reason. Too bad, I personally enjoy this exact playstyle more than anything else.

Vapirko · October 2018

Imo what makes NBs so strong v other stamina classes, is that they have so many available class damage skills and of course cloak is still very strong. I mean look at stamina DK vs Stamina NB. Compare the available toolkits and buffs/debuffs that both classes have available on demand. It’s not even close.

Bubosh · October 2018

susmitds wrote: »

Of all the skills, you complain about Dark Cloak. 8k in 3 secs is nothing compared to my 16k Vigor, which can also crit.
When Evasion helped people dodge all of NB attacks, which are all dodgeable, and thereby gave any Shuffle user, basically, a good deal of proctection against any NBs, it was fine apparently. But to do the same against against templars and wardens, is a big no no. People were dropping medium armor NBs and light armor NBs alike with Steel Tornado spam, which ignores both Cloak and Dodge, NB's primary defense but nobody bats an eye. In fact, several people celebrate it. Suddenly, everyone is given 25% AoE reduction and everyone loses their mind, when they realize that NBs won't be free kills for them.
Bow procs require 5 light attacks to proc, is single target and has no debuff. Shalk of wardens is AoE, does major fracture debuff and hits just as hard.

Last buff NB got was back in One Tamriel, two years ago. One by one, all stealth damage tools were nerfed. Bow heavy, camo hunter, empower, stealth damage all gone. But, as long as it is possible to delete people from stealth, NBs will get hate. It is the same hatred that campers and snipers get in FPS games. In every multiple game I played, people always hate the playstyle that wrecks them without being seen and all the people associated with it. Here, in ESO, NBs bear the brunt of the community's hatred for the same reason. Too bad, I personally enjoy this exact playstyle more than anything else.

Just get a Look About darc cloak if you have 30k plus this Skill is Broken dude and no other clas skill gives you this big ammount of heal over time that fast vigor is another story and Free for all classes sensless way to anwser about that in My opinion but OK.

Medium armor shouldnt reduce any dmg Dodge was OK and maked Sense but tbh Heavy armor is the armor wich should reduce dmg or get even a buff like that Not Medium. There is no balancing between it Trust ME There are enough of Medium nbs arround wich can survive in Open field Also without permanently cloaking (Both cloak morphs) and they can just outheal easylie Inc dmg and with shufle Change its just to Broken. If you couldnt reach this with youre NB than im sorry about that but its the true in dmg and sustain whise Medium and also Heavy nbs are OP since always.

Im totally Fine with a NB wich kills ME easylie or wich does incap over 8-10k or something like that Or even more but if youre Going on Full dmg as NB you shouldnt Be able to survive More than 2 ultimates and thats quiet easy for good nbs especially now with shuffle.

Btw im Not talking about nbs wich are easy to kill im talking about experienced good nbs dont get ME wrong just get a Look about it cyro is filled With those.

And yeah nbs should have a Dodge Chance based skills but other classes not. Just My guessing

usmcjdking · October 2018

Stamblade will not get nerfed for the simple fact there isn't enough of anything else to buff appropriately by the time they address stamblade.

This is the acid rain before the extinction level event ZOS metoer.

susmitds · October 2018

Bubosh wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Of all the skills, you complain about Dark Cloak. 8k in 3 secs is nothing compared to my 16k Vigor, which can also crit.
When Evasion helped people dodge all of NB attacks, which are all dodgeable, and thereby gave any Shuffle user, basically, a good deal of proctection against any NBs, it was fine apparently. But to do the same against against templars and wardens, is a big no no. People were dropping medium armor NBs and light armor NBs alike with Steel Tornado spam, which ignores both Cloak and Dodge, NB's primary defense but nobody bats an eye. In fact, several people celebrate it. Suddenly, everyone is given 25% AoE reduction and everyone loses their mind, when they realize that NBs won't be free kills for them.
Bow procs require 5 light attacks to proc, is single target and has no debuff. Shalk of wardens is AoE, does major fracture debuff and hits just as hard.

Last buff NB got was back in One Tamriel, two years ago. One by one, all stealth damage tools were nerfed. Bow heavy, camo hunter, empower, stealth damage all gone. But, as long as it is possible to delete people from stealth, NBs will get hate. It is the same hatred that campers and snipers get in FPS games. In every multiple game I played, people always hate the playstyle that wrecks them without being seen and all the people associated with it. Here, in ESO, NBs bear the brunt of the community's hatred for the same reason. Too bad, I personally enjoy this exact playstyle more than anything else.

Just get a Look About darc cloak if you have 30k plus this Skill is Broken dude and no other clas skill gives you this big ammount of heal over time that fast vigor is another story and Free for all classes sensless way to anwser about that in My opinion but OK.

Medium armor shouldnt reduce any dmg Dodge was OK and maked Sense but tbh Heavy armor is the armor wich should reduce dmg or get even a buff like that Not Medium. There is no balancing between it Trust ME There are enough of Medium nbs arround wich can survive in Open field Also without permanently cloaking (Both cloak morphs) and they can just outheal easylie Inc dmg and with shufle Change its just to Broken. If you couldnt reach this with youre NB than im sorry about that but its the true in dmg and sustain whise Medium and also Heavy nbs are OP since always.

Im totally Fine with a NB wich kills ME easylie or wich does incap over 8-10k or something like that Or even more but if youre Going on Full dmg as NB you shouldnt Be able to survive More than 2 ultimates and thats quiet easy for good nbs especially now with shuffle.

Btw im Not talking about nbs wich are easy to kill im talking about experienced good nbs dont get ME wrong just get a Look about it cyro is filled With those.

And yeah nbs should have a Dodge Chance based skills but other classes not. Just My guessing

If you have 30k+ HP, you are a tank and Dark Cloak was meant be a tank heal.
A good NB is obviously powerful, but due to the player more than class.
Majority of the players, I encounter in Cyrodiil as a NB are binary in nature. Either they immediately shut me down with Spin2Win. Or the usual case happens that nobody has game sense and spams AoEs in the most predictable places, where no decent NB will hide and thereby get dropped by me, one by one.
All stamina classes, magplar, magDK, can survive two ultimates. NBs can survive two ultimates, they are heavy armor or if they can reset the battle with Cloak. Majority of people build for defense with ridiculously low damage and then expect to kill good players in evasive damage set. Get 4k+ weapon damage or 50k+ magicka, you will send NBs running.

Maryal · October 2018

@Bubosh

you are focusing on the wrong class ...

stamdens are on par with and quite often are better than NBs in terms of dps (they not only deal crazy single target damage, but also crazy cleave damage ... regen ult like crazy, self sustain like crazy).

BTW .. if you have difficulty killing medium armor NBs you are most definitely under-experienced (in terms of expertise regarding mechanics / game mastery).

Xeniph · October 2018

As I have been running Dark Cloak for a month (ish) in a heavy build with 30k health and around +30% healing recieved/done

Without stacking health regen/FM, vigor and TK, Dark Cloak is fairly useless in terms of healing for pvp's Burst enviroment.

I suspect you are running into folks with TK up (34-3800 health regen) FM hot (800ish) Vigor (1800ish) Dark cloak (1800ish) and assuming it's all Dark Cloaks fault.

I'll let you in on a little secret, all classes have access to heals similar. Some classes have better versions like the wardens Leeching Vines, Arctic Blast.

Of all the things to complain about, I was sure this would be the last thing to complain about against a NB. LOL

Just proves people will complain about anything.

Derra · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm not complaining, because,

A. I'm pretty sure Nightblades are up next on the chopping block for the nerf hammer

B. I just finally managed to level up a Nightblade past level 20 for the first time despite multiple tries, LOL. I'm just bad at getting into a nightblade's play style,

I´ve thought that for a long time by now. Nope not happening.

Bubosh · October 2018

Maryal wrote: »

@Bubosh

you are focusing on the wrong class ...

stamdens are on par with and quite often are better than NBs in terms of dps (they not only deal crazy single target damage, but also crazy cleave damage ... regen ult like crazy, self sustain like crazy).

BTW .. if you have difficulty killing medium armor NBs you are most definitely under-experienced (in terms of expertise regarding mechanics / game mastery).

I can just laugh about that just show me how you Gonna kill a Medium shuffle stamblade with a stamden if the NB is experienced enough the stamden Gonna suck with mostly aoe dmg lol stamden is good but Not OP just Play a stamden by youre self now especially against shuffle Users youre done 😂

Bubosh · October 2018

no one can hide it anymore Guys get a Look about the cyro map/servers nbs is most picked clas ATM and their getting More and More since murkmire and thats not for any reason they overperforming against other classes in Terms of healing and dmg. Dont get ME wrong most of you Guys wich Dont agree with ME are nbs Player thats enough to say and if you Not agree with that youre may Not experienced enough as NB ore you just know how OP this clas is and dont want any nerf about it.

susmitds · October 2018

Bubosh wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

@Bubosh

you are focusing on the wrong class ...

stamdens are on par with and quite often are better than NBs in terms of dps (they not only deal crazy single target damage, but also crazy cleave damage ... regen ult like crazy, self sustain like crazy).

BTW .. if you have difficulty killing medium armor NBs you are most definitely under-experienced (in terms of expertise regarding mechanics / game mastery).

I can just laugh about that just show me how you Gonna kill a Medium shuffle stamblade with a stamden if the NB is experienced enough the stamden Gonna suck with mostly aoe dmg lol stamden is good but Not OP just Play a stamden by youre self now especially against shuffle Users youre done 😂

If you can't kill an medium armor NB with a Stamden, just because your 16k tooltip AoE burst skill is hitting 25% lesser, then you need to stop using shalk+spin2win+DBoS braindead combo and learn to use proper single target skills. Stamden equates NB in burst and sustain, while having far better self heals and defense.

Bubosh · October 2018

just think about 16k Tool Tip how Much IT will Be and that less the 25% lol its Not like just 25% less of the Tool Tip Because of shuffle 😅 and like i told you Guys before its Also wrong balancing about Medium against Heavy sensless buff for Heavy Heavy buff for Medium Makes no Sense
@susmitds
Just asking whats youre Main clas again?
Just get a Look by youre own its easy to See how OP IT is shuffle 25% lets say the dawnbreaker Hits with 7k at the shuffle NB dmg will be 5250 ore something like that and thats just to Many ways to reduce dmg by a nb a Joke Nothing More

Bubosh · October 2018

and Where the hell stamden beets stamblade in burstwhise omg i guess you cant even Play a good stamblade @susmitds stamden burst aoe dmg but in Single target nbs gonna winn this always and were Not talking About braindead Spin to winners

Bubosh · October 2018

https://imgur.com/7WNt3Ex

Just broken get a look about the stats its not hard to get stats like that as nb youre welcome.

deancorso59 · October 2018

Bubosh, the stats you linked in are not op.

The nb has only 30% crit chance which is low on a stamblade. Crit chance is as important as weapon dmg, max stam or pen for dmg output for stamblades especially if they don't use proc sets.

The nb has 25 k spell/phys resistance buffed, sounds great except he has only 23 k health with 2347 crit resist which is really not a lot. A crit build with major fracture and maul / maces hits hard on builds like this to give an example.

And stamblades have had their share of nerfs the last few patches with the nerf to crit heals from cloak and the removal of the stun on incap (at 70 ulti).

Cheers.

THE_BIG_BOSS · October 2018

GO STAMBLADE OR GO HOME

Soris · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm not complaining, because,

A. I'm pretty sure Nightblades are up next on the chopping block for the nerf hammer

B. I just finally managed to level up a Nightblade past level 20 for the first time despite multiple tries, LOL. I'm just bad at getting into a nightblade's play style,

If they are ever going to nerf nightblades then it will be a nerf to a universal ability which has a greater impact on other classes than nightblades. Such as dodge roll additive cost increase..

Bubosh · October 2018

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

GO STAMBLADE OR GO HOME

go kahjit mag dk xDDD

Zeromaz · October 2018

Bubosh wrote: »

Hello guys! Im just wondering why nobody is complaining about this stamblade meta since summerset.... Stamblades getting always stronger and stronger in cyrodiil there are many stamblades in tanky builds just for example: why they got a "dark Cloak" skill wich gaves them way to much healing over just 3 secs and also minor protection let us say the nb have 25k health its pretty much but lets just take this as example they will get 8k heals over 3 secs thats not the way how balancing works.

Nearly all classes got nerfed by murkmire and medium nbs gonna get also buffed against aoe dmg witch shuffle change???? Total they got a skill for minor protection they got a skill for insane healing over just 3 secs they got spectral bow wich is a skill that makes more dmg than all ultis i would say. Probably they cant even get killed by a 1vs1 anymore if they are good and using shuffle now because all dawnbreakers and aoe ultis gonna be useless.

We can already see how vivec is turning more and more into a nb pvp open world zone since murkmire is out also with this rediculous enchant procc changes. One Keep fight with 10 reds 7 Nbs 3 randoom classes just happened last time when i was trying to pvp. Cyro is getting open world zone for stamblades im pretty interested about the numbers while prime time.... How many Nightblades are logged in instead of other classes. Would be pretty nice to get a anwser about this @ZOS_GinaBruno i know youre may not the right person for this but you can maybe get this into a discussion.

One of my biggest questions is also why nightblades in medium are way harder to kill than any other classes in heavy in my opinion there is no balancing about medium against heavy.......

Sorry for my bad english i tryed my best!

let the flame start

Stamblades only buff was sap..

Bubosh · October 2018

deancorso59 wrote: »

Bubosh, the stats you linked in are not op.

The nb has only 30% crit chance which is low on a stamblade. Crit chance is as important as weapon dmg, max stam or pen for dmg output for stamblades especially if they don't use proc sets.

The nb has 25 k spell/phys resistance buffed, sounds great except he has only 23 k health with 2347 crit resist which is really not a lot. A crit build with major fracture and maul / maces hits hard on builds like this to give an example.

And stamblades have had their share of nerfs the last few patches with the nerf to crit heals from cloak and the removal of the stun on incap (at 70 ulti).

Cheers.

did you even saw the pen of this build? And did you know how often you can cloak with that magicka reg and this good max magicka and did you know how often you can dodge roll with this stam reg and max stam? You dont need more than 2,2k crit resis with this other ways to survive as nb even the shadow can save youre life with this stats many many times until unkillable against few players....

And thats definitly not what zos wanted they want to make it harder for all players to get out of difficult situations and for nbs its even not close to "hard ore difficult" get away.

deancorso59 · October 2018

Well, i use detect pots if they feel like cloaking. And yeah 12 k is a lot of pen, does nothing vs people who stack health rather than resist or play in medium armor instead though.

Bubosh · October 2018

deancorso59 wrote: »

Well, i use detect pots if they feel like cloaking. And yeah 12 k is a lot of pen, does nothing vs people who stack health rather than resist or play in medium armor instead though.

its not just cloak dude like i said before "shadow dodge roll". And if you cant kill a heal bot with this stats than youre probably wrong as nb there isnt stuff like befoul out in this game for this things ore ....... And yeah especially nbs running 100% into cp points into it because of incap.

deancorso59 · October 2018

I agree stamblades have it too easy on sustain. I play with same stam stats (35k stam, 3.2 k stam regen) and i never run out of stam, even when i spam dodge roll lul.
I it was up to me i'd nerf relentless focus, this ability is overloaded with goodies, i'd remove the 15% stam regen buff.

Bubosh · October 2018

deancorso59 wrote: »

I agree stamblades have it too easy on sustain. I play with same stam stats (35k stam, 3.2 k stam regen) and i never run out of stam, even when i spam dodge roll lul.
I it was up to me i'd nerf relentless focus, this ability is overloaded with goodies, i'd remove the 15% stam regen buff.

i also dont want nbs to get nerfed into the ground like other classes but they should also get balanced out to other classes thats the fact they are not.

zyk · October 2018

Stamblades have had recent nerfs. Incap has been adjusted twice over the past year and fear was also nerfed. Assassin's Scourge via Relentless Focus is easier to avoid in 4.2.

I think what we're seeing is the combination of a lot of outside factors.

For one, ZOS continues to make adjustments that make solo play more difficult. That pushes experienced solo players towards NB because it has escape functions as part of its core design.

Another factor are bleed builds. Most OP NBs fall into this category IMO. I think NBs are the best class for bleed builds because cloak and shade make it easy to escape pressure -- while continuing to apply pressure with bleeds.

Healing in this game is out of control. This makes burst more valuable, but it also makes NBs less squishy than they used to be. Basically every experienced player can reset to full health pretty quickly unless they get ZOS'd. Again, combined with cloak and shade, it makes NBs very difficult to fight alone.

Bubosh · October 2018

dont wanna argue about that ore even start a discussion with you @zyk some parts wich youre talking about are right and some not rly but yeah i cant expect more than that from a mostly nb user like youre yt channel is showing us. In terms of healing and dmg whise they are overperforming to much and thats the fact they have easy based stats about the passives and this stats can be easylie get pushed by some sets and what you will get about that is to much as nb. Dont wanna offend you but its true. And this nerfs wich the nbs got are not even close to other nerfs of other classes.... i couldnt also tell you wich nerfs dks ore sorcs even got because they got way more nerfs than nbs and that needs to be balanced out

zyk · October 2018

NB was my first class, but I've mostly played others the past couple of years. I haven't touched my magblade for about a year and my stamblade was only played to experiment with proc sets for a couple of weeks in feb.

My current opinion about NBs is based on fighting them.

DK has been my favorite class lately, but I might switch back to NB because I play solo or ungrouped and need better mobility.

Matshing · October 2018

Stam Nightblade just got stronger now imo you cant run away from zergs anymore or kite them in a tower with other stam classes but with a stam nightblade you just need to doge roll with youre nice bow and cloak lmao