Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6

YAY or NAY?

BalticBlues
BalticBlues
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Murkmire, released on Oct 22, profoundly changes the combat system.
Mostly with massive nerfs - comunity codename: Nerfmire

Hit hardest are Sorcs (3rd bar removed, Pets dying easily in Solo play, Frags & Runes delayed, ...), Shields (critable, capped at 40%/50% health, resistance in LA worse than in HA, can proc attacker enchantments, ...) and Mobility (Swift -40%, Major Expedition capped - typically at 4 secs), notes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441713/pc-mac-patch-notes-v4-2-5/p1

Judging by everything you know about the upcoming patch:
Do you APPROVE the combat changes for the most part (YAY!)? Or...
Do you OPPOSE the combat changes for the most part (NAY!)?

In other words: Are the combat changes doing more good or more harm to the game?
If "YAY", please share your TOP 3 pleasure points.
If "NAY", please share your TOP 3 pain points.


This is the final poll for the release version.
The latest PTS test version poll showed 78% of PTS testers opposing the combat changes.

Edited by BalticBlues on October 23, 2018 9:42PM

YAY or NAY? 208 votes

JAY!
31%
daryl.rasmusenb14_ESOotis67kendellking_chaosb14_ESOMahabahabthaSarousseSamadhihollywoodowenquillionub17_ESOPhlatheadLoves_guarsEdaphonKolachedsalterLatiosQUEZ420TandorKanarGarethjolnirReifboaz733 66 votes
NAY!
68%
omegatay_ESOSirAndyThumbtackJakevailjohn_ESOMoloch1514theyanceyMojmirJimmyDarcyMardindeLioncourtwenchmore420b14_ESOninibiniValveScardyFoxNebthet78Yukon2112OlithDelgentIdinuseHurbster 142 votes
  • SydneyGrey
    SydneyGrey
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    There are a few good changes, but some of the changes are just nonsensical, like the change to Radial Sweep where they switched the magicka and stamina morphs, so literally every single character that uses that skill has to re-spec. What the heck were they thinking with that one? I just don't get it. It's like they were just trolling us with that.

    I like the buffs to Ash Cloud and Impulse, though.
    Edited by SydneyGrey on October 23, 2018 11:37AM
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JAY!
    The buffs to Templar and Warden eclipse the drawbacks of Sorc nerfs, especially since there is no cast time. The delay on frags is miniscule but probably enough to matter for pvp. Can't really judge NB and DK because I don't play a lot on those. I do think that the stun remove on whip was good though because I hated giving people cc immunity on accident.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • jd24
    jd24
    ✭✭✭
    The nay votes will obviously win. Majority of the people are resistant to change regardless if the changes are good or not.
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    NAY!
    1. Light Armor and game philosophy crippled by Shield redesign
    Shields are not only capped at -50%/-60% health and being critable now, even worse; Light Armor now has LESS shield resistance than Heavy Armor. This turns the Magicka philosophy of this game upside down: For the first time, LA performs WORSE for Magicka skills than HA. This considerably harms LA users playing with low health to meet DPS requirements.
    Possible solution: Reverse shield resistance calculation, so that LA has better shield resistance and HA has less.

    2. Pet Sorcs crippled without 3rd bar
    Sorcs using two pets (blocking FOUR slots) do not have enough slots anymore for meaningful gameplay. This is one reason why the original Sorc developer created the 3rd bar, so that 2-pet-users get 3 more slots to balance this out.
    Possible solution: Fix Sorc pets to only use ONE slot (NB Shade pet also uses only one slot).
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5509200#Comment_5509200

    3. Pets easily dying (solo play) or being immortal (group play)
    Pets are either constantly dying in Solo play (Overland, Arenas etc) due to the crippled shields or are immortal now in group dungeons and trials. This makes pets almost useless in Solo play and brings a completely different playing experience between Solo and Group play which has never been the case before and makes the game confusing.
    Possible solution: Remove the Shield Cap for pets instead of altering Solo/Group play.

    Results of Murkmire:
    - Sorc are gutted with three massive nerfs at the same time: removed bar, crippled shields, delayed skills
    - LA is dead; HA is the way to go now for resistance
    - pets are dead; there is not enough bar space anymore and they die to easily
    - overall, the classic LA Sorc is dead; HA without pets is the way to go now.

    "We will support you playing the way you want to play."
    --- ESO Developers, March 2014

    So AFTER 4 YEARS OF PLAYING, this is the end of the promise once given to us?
    ZOS, this is the end of the LA Sorc Class as we know it and we want to play it.

    651-1.jpg
    "I used to be an adventurer like you, but then devs broke my bar, shields and skills."

    Edited by BalticBlues on October 23, 2018 12:09PM
  • MJallday
    MJallday
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    before i pass true judgement i want to see what vMA looks like with the sheild nerfs. i just havent had time yet.

    having tried it on early PTS, it was horrid - but ill reserve judgement until i get a chance.
  • daemondamian
    daemondamian
    ✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    Any heavy armor recommendations for magicka sorcerers?
  • MJallday
    MJallday
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    Any heavy armor recommendations for magicka sorcerers?

    Elf Bane

  • Jimmy
    Jimmy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    I voted NAY because last night I logged in to get my Dremora Plunder Skull from a World Boss I like to solo. I got to him, engaged, and for the first time EVER got 1 shot seconds after engaging.

    Shocked, I revived, reengaged, fought much more defensively in "Scared mode" and got my skull.

    But that shook me. I'm so weak.
    Edited by Jimmy on October 23, 2018 12:06PM
    PC NA
    @SkruDe
  • daemondamian
    daemondamian
    ✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    MJallday wrote: »
    Any heavy armor recommendations for magicka sorcerers?

    Elf Bane

    Thanks Elf Bane is on my list of potential sets I'm considering along with Embershield, Medusa, and Rattlecage.
  • Banana
    Banana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a dk. Ash cloud is better and thats where it ends. Nerfmire is bad.
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    NAY!
    Thanks Elf Bane is on my list of potential sets I'm considering along with Embershield, Medusa, and Rattlecage.

    Elf Bane sounds good for HA.
    Could Combat Physician be some kind of rescue for LA?
  • worir5
    worir5
    ✭✭✭
    JAY!
    I feel like I am a standard, casual player, (CP 360) and my main character is a stamina dragonknight and I have to say that I don't feel as though much has changed in combat both PVE and PVP. I have the same survivability and it seems as though everyone else does too so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, if everyone gets nerfed then no one is nerfed right?
  • omegatay_ESO
    omegatay_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    I have said this before.. More Champion points, massive nurfs. It's how the devs keep you from becoming God's. Well... Some classes at least. Beyond stupid way to balance, but it is what it is.
  • Rake
    Rake
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Your pool says jay.
    There is no yay in your pool.
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    NAY!
    worir5 wrote: »
    my main character is a stamina dragonknight
    [...] I'm not sure what all the fuss is about
    Congrats, because you are not a Sorc, you are not using Magicka, and you are not using LA.
    The more of these three points are true for a player, the more this patch is crippling.

    You are not affected much because none of these points apply to you.
    You are one of the lucky winners of this patch.
    However, other players will find their builds miserable.

    We knew there where points that needed fine-tuning.
    However, instead of fine-tuning, ZOS used a sledgehammer:
    The lucky winners: Stamina in Heavy/Medium Armor
    The onefold losers: Magicka in Light Armor
    The twofold losers: Sorcs in Light Armor
    The threefold losers: PetSorcs in Light Armor

    Some people have lost so much with Murkmire - they do not even recognize their game anymore.
    This is not what balancing and fine-tuning should be.
    This is messing-around with this game and the faith players have in this game.

    Edited by BalticBlues on October 23, 2018 4:25PM
  • Emmagoldman
    Emmagoldman
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    It's a clear and overwhelming Nay for where they are in terms of longitivtiy of the game and where it could be. We should be thinking, what should change look like in a game four years down the line. Four years in production and you still need to make huge sweeping changes?

    ESO has been released since 2014. Any new MMO is going to have major balance issues, bugs, mechanics ect. It's understandable to make huge adjustments as it moves from limited testers to tens of thousands giving the game a try. However, ESO is in it's fourth year. There shouldn't be any major nerfs or buffs at this point, instead small changes and "general" balance. Really just tweaks and adjustments. If ZOS was constructing a house, they would be almost done and then say, lets change the first floor lay out.

    Any widespread change at this point is because the combat team does not understand how their choices impact the game. They don't know their own product. Take this patch, did warden really need boosts to sustain? It is already the easiest class to maintain sustain. Magdk needed a nerf with chains because major expedition was OP on that skill line? You know Magdk, they have been known for breaking the servers with their lightning like speed.

    What is lost from their failure is quality combat systems, player choice and the ability to expand. If classes and weapons were decently balanced (not perfect) then CP could be revisited to address powercreep and even more choice. By the way, here's more cp! In turn, the team could look at past armor sets and create more viability. They could add weapon lines that have been in past ES games, classes and skill lines along with plus minus system which existed in early games. Yet, there isn't excitement within the community which is pathetic. Elder Scrolls fans, don't want to see past ES weapons, classes, skills and systems from Elder Scrolls games because they don't feel the combat team can make logical choices with what is on the table. " You can't even work with what you got, don't even think of adding more."

    Eso has incredible staff of lore writers, graphic teams, they do live video events, creative dungeons and do try to communicate with the player base. There is one department that is not at the same standard and failing hard.

  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    OL bar gone
    OL nerfed as was a high risk high damage glass cannon option
    Wards and the dull pigeon hole to run impen
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • Sarousse
    Sarousse
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JAY!
    1 - end of many cancer builds
    2 - fights are fun again. No more passive dodging. <3
    3 - new cyrodiil map.

    Also I've already crossed damn strong sorcs that chose to adapt and think about their new stuff/build instead of whining and that are already rocking like beasts in Cyrodiil.
    Edited by Sarousse on October 23, 2018 4:38PM
  • Colecovision
    Colecovision
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JAY!
    Poll needs the option, "I need more time to really check this out." And everyone who wasn't on pts that clicked "nay" should have used that choice.

  • ZeroXFF
    ZeroXFF
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JAY!
    While the specific implementation is wonky, defensive skills scaling with defensive stats makes sense. I agree with the design goal behind the shield cap (but not the cap itself, shields should just straight up scale with max. HP).

    The way it is now is much more intuitive. You want to be able to take harder hits? Get more HP and more resistances. This is how it should be.

    Oh, and I love the templar and light armor buffs.
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    NAY!
    Eso has incredible staff of lore writers, graphic teams, they do live video events, creative dungeons and do try to communicate with the player base. There is one department that is not at the same standard and failing hard.
    This is the true and tragic part of ESO. The wonderful lore, the rich graphics, the cool dungeons and the dedication to details is what brought so many people to ESO. But each time players feel comfortable and at home in this game, the combat design team completely breaks and redesigns the game - so that many people feel uncomfortable. When will this stop?

    Would you like an architect in your private home to rebuild your walls once every year?

    The most unwanted redesign so far was when heavy-attacks became mandatory. At least all players needed to adapt there, but today heavy attacks are more painful than ever, especially for healers, because the servers are so unreliable that probably only 50% of resto heavy-attacks are recognized. As a healer, heavy attacks fail you much too often while you desparately try to get a lock on a target while you stand right in front of it. Yeah the healer sucks - if heavy attacks suck... But instead of fixing such massive combat bugs, the devs break the game and the balance even more...

    They even break the game and redesign it now right before Christmas? Ok, they could have balanced shields AND Cloaking a bit (both is OP in PVP), like making shields critable and Cloak coasts rising. OR they could have capped Shields AND Cloaking at a certain point to make PvE more difficult where currently Shield AND Cloak users can just surpass mechanics.

    But instead of making small changes, there are SEVERAL massive nerfs for shields at the same time - while there are NO nerfs at all for Cloak. This way, things like the Imperial Sewers become an even more dangerous gankground for Sorcs (because of the now useless protection rune) while Imperial Sewers are an even funnier playgrond for NBs. When I play my NB, the IS are just laughable: Balance already was BAD there, but now it is just TERRIBLE. On top of this, the Overload bar for Sorcs are completley gone now, so Pets are not only dying all of the time because of the shield changes, there is not even enough meaningful gameplay left for them with too few bar slots left.

    We reported about all of this on the PTS - the useless protection rune, the missing bar slots for pets, the constantly dying pets etc. etc. - but did not even get the tiniest answer. If the wonderful lore, graphics and the dungeons would completely be redesigned each year, this game would be empty. Why on earth only the combat design team thinks that breaking and redesigning the game where we feel at home once a year is a good decision?

    Edited by BalticBlues on October 23, 2018 5:18PM
  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    1. Speed nerf is terrible, I move like a snail and it makes solo play pointless.

    2. They made dizzy swing pretty much impossible to land for some reason so not only do I move slow I also can't attack anything.

    3. Balance is still terrible, and still laggy and filled with bugs. And now they make enchants op, and the meta builds are affected by it more than anything.

    The patch is 10x worse than I thought it would be.
  • JimmyJuJu
    JimmyJuJu
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Elf Bane is on my list of potential sets I'm considering along with Embershield, Medusa, and Rattlecage.

    Elf Bane sounds good for HA.
    Could Combat Physician be some kind of rescue for LA?

    Got both - Elf Bane and RC. Getting those staves, though. Hmm....

    Or, go dual-wield Torug's :) The change to infused swords is legit.
    Edited by JimmyJuJu on October 23, 2018 5:29PM
  • Horowonnoe
    Horowonnoe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorcs are healers at this point. I already gave up few patches ago.
    PC / NA
    Templar Healer "False Eye"
    Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
    Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
    Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
    Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"

    Builds & Guides:
    Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
    How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
    Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
    Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
    More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.

    Notable Achievements:
    - World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
    - World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    NAY!
    Horowonnoe wrote: »
    Sorcs are healers at this point. I already gave up few patches ago.

    I had some unique Sorc healer builds and even prefered the Sorc Healer in dungeons instead of using my Templar Healer. Having the choice to use a Sorc or Templar Healer was great. However, now without the 3rd bar and the utilities it allowed (like two pets or other skills for doing more damage or purging), all these builds do not work anymore. Now the Sorc Healer is just an average healer. And my Templar Healer always wins. BORING.

    I still find Sorcs good at DPS. But for DPS, without 3rd bar, shields and pets, my NB always wins. BORING.
    So how much gameplay is left for Sorcs without 3rd bar, premium LA shields and pets?
    Unfortunatley, a LOT LESS than before this patch.

    Edited by BalticBlues on October 23, 2018 6:05PM
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    JAY!
    1. Evasion change
    2. Resource Poison nerf
    3. Damage Shield nerf
  • ZOS_Mika
    ZOS_Mika
    admin
    We have removed a few baiting and insulting comments from this thread. Please keep the discussion civil and constructive. Thank you for your understanding.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Bitmun
    Bitmun
    ✭✭✭
    NAY!
    1. Half of classes are boring AF now in pvp, some are not working at all.
    2. Half of classes are boring AF now in pvp, some are not working at all.
    3. Half of classes are boring AF now in pvp, some are not working at all.
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    NAY!
    Sarousse wrote: »
    YAY: end of many cancer builds
    YAY: fights are fun again.
    With weapon enchants that now proc 2x2 in DW dots,
    PvP finally is pure proc cancer.
    These kind of fights are fun for you?
    1b3b631e6bfc9fde1146b9d46681f26c.png

    Not only that most of the combat changes appear shortsighted and ill-conceived in favor of Stamina and against Magicka, there are so many bugs in this game now that it is obvious that these changes were made hastily or sloppily. The game was certainly better with Summerset, and Murkmire never should have been released in this horrendous state, especially not before Christmas. On PTS, the majority of testers wanted only the great Murkmire content to be released, not the questionable combat changes. Now people speak about the "most broken patch since Thieves Guild".

    Edited by BalticBlues on October 25, 2018 12:38PM
  • darkstar2084
    darkstar2084
    ✭✭✭✭
    NAY!
    I preferred my Demigod Sorc, just feel like any other mortal now
Sign In or Register to comment.