LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Hold down the attack button and you´ll do something called a "heavy attack".

Thank me later.

The problem is, heavy attacks are annoying and slow. Actually, it's one of the reasons why Morrowind changes werent very popular, having to use heavies disrupts the flow of combat (not to mention that it doesnt even make any sense that heavy attacks restore your stamina or magicka).
It would be much better if they would bring other classes on par with magblades, not other way around. And if they wanted to nerf dynamic rotations, they could've done something about skill durations, to make it less beneficial. At least it wouldnt affect average players (because an average player is not using complicated rotations).

As long as they don't turn the entire game into LA Weave or GTFO.

Depends on what you mean.
If you mean top dps builds, then they all rely on light attack weaving, simply because light attack dps has been considerably buffed. It was probably meant to help low dps dds (aka "light attack spammers"), but it actually buffed endgame players instead (because they are good at weaving).
If we're talking about regular trials and dungeons, then you dont really need to be good at weaving. It's possible to push around 30k or even more with heavy attack builds. It isnt "meta", but it will be enough for pretty much anything except 2 latest trial hardmodes and I'm pretty sure that 30k is still well above average dps in pugs.
It's also kinda pointless to discuss top guild requirements and other stuff like this. ZOS has been working very hard to destroy endgame community, and those huge nerfs played a significant role in this process: basically they were burning the bridges between "average" and "hardcore" playerbases. The former has troubles with achieving good dps with constant nerfs and the latter is chocking without fresh blood (at least from what I've seen after Morrowind... When players leave and you simply dont have anyone to take their spots and guilds just fall apart). There are other reasons, of course (such as content design), but this one is very important.

I'm fine with LA DPS being a thing and I am fine with it being the game changer between good and great players.

My issues are more that a lot of recent changes have focused more around this being the standard mechanic everyone has to learn, and it's not easy for everyone to do that. I don't want every class to start getting key skills changed to function off LA weaving.

Turelus wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Hold down the attack button and you´ll do something called a "heavy attack".

Thank me later.

The problem is, heavy attacks are annoying and slow. Actually, it's one of the reasons why Morrowind changes werent very popular, having to use heavies disrupts the flow of combat (not to mention that it doesnt even make any sense that heavy attacks restore your stamina or magicka).
It would be much better if they would bring other classes on par with magblades, not other way around. And if they wanted to nerf dynamic rotations, they could've done something about skill durations, to make it less beneficial. At least it wouldnt affect average players (because an average player is not using complicated rotations).

As long as they don't turn the entire game into LA Weave or GTFO.

Depends on what you mean.
If you mean top dps builds, then they all rely on light attack weaving, simply because light attack dps has been considerably buffed. It was probably meant to help low dps dds (aka "light attack spammers"), but it actually buffed endgame players instead (because they are good at weaving).
If we're talking about regular trials and dungeons, then you dont really need to be good at weaving. It's possible to push around 30k or even more with heavy attack builds. It isnt "meta", but it will be enough for pretty much anything except 2 latest trial hardmodes and I'm pretty sure that 30k is still well above average dps in pugs.
It's also kinda pointless to discuss top guild requirements and other stuff like this. ZOS has been working very hard to destroy endgame community, and those huge nerfs played a significant role in this process: basically they were burning the bridges between "average" and "hardcore" playerbases. The former has troubles with achieving good dps with constant nerfs and the latter is chocking without fresh blood (at least from what I've seen after Morrowind... When players leave and you simply dont have anyone to take their spots and guilds just fall apart). There are other reasons, of course (such as content design), but this one is very important.

I'm fine with LA DPS being a thing and I am fine with it being the game changer between good and great players.

My issues are more that a lot of recent changes have focused more around this being the standard mechanic everyone has to learn, and it's not easy for everyone to do that. I don't want every class to start getting key skills changed to function off LA weaving.

Well... Magblades are kinda designed around light attack rotation. They have siphoning attacks to restore resources and spectral bows to do damage.
I never said that all classes should be designed in the same way, my point was that pre-nerf magblades were pretty much the only class that could effectively utilize light attack rotation without sustain issues. And I think that other classes should also have this choice, they should've been brought on par with magblades in terms of damage and sustain.
Basically, I think the game could have been much better (more inclusive and less toxic) if players of all skill levels had something to play with. There should be easy builds (such as heavy attack builds) that would allow you to clear 99% of the content and more difficult builds for score-pushing and other endgame activities. And those "more difficult" builds should be rewarding regardless of your class, it just didnt make any sense if one class could sustain it and the others couldnt. Ideally, there should be more than one of those builds for each class... Hey, a girl can dream, right?
But alas, ZOS prefers their nerf whack-a-mole. And I don't get why they're so persistent at pigeonholing players into certain playstyles when the game is being sold as "play as you want" experience. If you ask me, a "light attack or GTFO" Homestead patch was better than Morrowind or Murkmire. Nerf patches killed more nonmeta builds than any elitists ever could: things like nb tank builds are a good example.

HuawaSepp wrote: »

(By weaving a LA every 1,05 sec which is usual)

Well, I'd argue if this is usual. To me that would be considered flawless and perfected. I'm closely monitoring my s/la-ratio to improve myself and I'm more in the 1.15 - 1.2 s/la region.
On the topic, I felt that I need to adopt quite a bit. I loved mNB for bringing off-heals to the group, but with my current setup I have like 0 group utility beside dps. I don't like that imbue weapon meta, but that's what it is now. After the update I'm using the bar-setup Alcast suggests and found that it requires a lot more barswapping than before. Still, after an hour practice my dps-parse was the same as before.

Sparr0w wrote: »

Yup I play sorc too but had to shelve it since sustain was just awful. Thing that gets me is they added a cost to DK whip proc and NB bow proc to make them match Sorc frag proc, rather than just making Sorc frag proc free which would have alleviated a lot of the sustain issue & kept NB fun to play.

@Sparr0w. Oh my god! I'm not sure whether I want to laugh or to cry when reading that post. Boy, I would love to see the million of salt-threads on this forum if ZOS ever considered making the crystal fragments proc cost-free!

(And actually, despite having played a magsorc as PVP main until yesterday, I could only agree with the general rage about such a move.)

ZOS very clearly stated why they added costs to the bow proc:

The spectral bow proc is no longer free, and costs half the amount of a regular Grim Focus.
Developer Comments:
This ability was too productive for the amount of damage and effective resource management it provided, and was another part of the reason that Nightblade DPS was too high.

Has nothing to do with the abysmal magsorc sustain or utterly underperforming DPS (which ZOS would never officially acknowledge, anyways)

@visionality Why? What would be the issue making 1 proc free of cost? It's already been nerfed in PvP so can be dodged by any half competent player & pvp sorcs run lich for sustain anyway (mainly shield stacking).

If you read the note "effective resource management it provided, and was another part of the reason that Nightblade DPS was too high." so yes it is linked to magsorc sustain being terrible (along with other classes), if other classes had better sustain could run blue food over witchmothers while still sustaining their DPS would be a lot higher, meaning Nightblade DPS wouldn't be "too high".

I feel for you OP, seems all the complaint about other classes' sustain (read sorc) has made zos' modus operadi trigger: lets nerf what works and leave whats crap as it is.

Sorc sustain has been equal or worse than that for a while, yet they dont give a flying zuck about it.

So, we will have to switch another jewelry enchant to regen instead of spell dmg to have the same sustainability as before. This will lower our dps a little. But we also have 30 cp points. We also have the new spell strategist set that will buff our dps. All in all, our dps will remain more or less the same. Welcome to a game of horizontal progression. Where our hero progresses without becoming stronger.
That might seem terrible, but in fact it allows us not to get overpowered compared to the content. So even the original dungeons remain somewhat meaningful to max cp players. It prevents entire zones to be ghost towns, with everybody only doing the latest dungeon / raid.