Magblade broken

THE_BIG_BOSS

Wtf is this? I am running full sustain build and cant do anything, all the Time Out of magicka

Nerfmire is worse than i thought

Haquor

Good talk.

Azurya

you could look a bit around, many ppl already posted handsome builds for Murkmire

just posting negative isn´t a solution...............

MaleAmazon

Hold down the attack button and you´ll do something called a "heavy attack".

Thank me later.

Sparr0w

Need to run a regen glyph & absorb magicka glyph to sustain a dynamic rotation. Static one will likely have to run witchmothers too

TheKingofSass

While I am bitter they removed minor vitality from swallow soul, and ruined refreshing path (even thought I use twisting but nonetheless), sustain wasn't all too bad. After finally being able to log into the game last night, I went straight ahead to kill a wb solo to get my event ticket, and while preparing for the absolutely worst, with the bow proc now having a cost, I didn't ran out of resources. I did however, found myself heavy attack bit more but not for sustain, but for that juicy 2x proc count.

All and all, while there are ton of things I don't like in this patch, so far, it isn't /that/ bad as I originally anticipated. I rarely used shields on my mag toons anyway, so can't say mucho about that.

WuffyCerulei

I don't usually say this, but welcome to the world of every other class.

Houshiki

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

Sparr0w

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

Using a semi static rotation with witchmothers:

Turelus

Have you tried changing some of your spell damage to regeneration?

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

To be fair, if you're not a light attack weaving machine then you'll hit this issue a lot. It's why I hate the MagBlade now (my main since launch) as so much of it's power relies on being great at weaving light attacks.

Houshiki

Sparr0w wrote: »

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

Using a semi static rotation with witchmothers:

I'm sorry, but I have to say it: Welcome to the sorc's sustain problems, where our sustain sucked at launch, pre/post-morrowind, and continues to suck even now. I'm not even joking. T-T

Turelus wrote: »

Have you tried changing some of your spell damage to regeneration?

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

To be fair, if you're not a light attack weaving machine then you'll hit this issue a lot. It's why I hate the MagBlade now (my main since launch) as so much of it's power relies on being great at weaving light attacks.

I haven't necessarily played magblades, but I can understand the importance of LA weaving, at least to pulling dps numbers, and especially when using elemental weapon as a spammable.

WuffyCerulei

@Sparr0w I saw that your magblade's a werewolf. Being a vamp will give you an extra 10% recovery to help.

Sparr0w

Houshiki wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

Using a semi static rotation with witchmothers:

I'm sorry, but I have to say it: Welcome to the sorc's sustain problems, where our sustain sucked at launch, pre/post-morrowind, and continues to suck even now. I'm not even joking. T-T

Turelus wrote: »

Have you tried changing some of your spell damage to regeneration?

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

To be fair, if you're not a light attack weaving machine then you'll hit this issue a lot. It's why I hate the MagBlade now (my main since launch) as so much of it's power relies on being great at weaving light attacks.

I haven't necessarily played magblades, but I can understand the importance of LA weaving, at least to pulling dps numbers, and especially when using elemental weapon as a spammable.

@Houshiki
Yup I play sorc too but had to shelve it since sustain was just awful. Thing that gets me is they added a cost to DK whip proc and NB bow proc to make them match Sorc frag proc, rather than just making Sorc frag proc free which would have alleviated a lot of the sustain issue & kept NB fun to play.

weedgenius

I don’t get it... everyone says “welcome to the sucky sustain of every other class” and even dev comments in the pnotes were literally like “nightblades were too good so we made them worse to fit with other classes” but why aren’t they BUFFING other classes so everyone can play as good as mag nb instead of NERFING mag nb? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Sparr0w

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

@Sparr0w I saw that your magblade's a werewolf. Being a vamp will give you an extra 10% recovery to help.

@WuffyCerulei

Was on the PTS since I'm a console player primarily. Even so that would add about 70 effective regen/s which would still leave a massive disparity between regen/drain

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Sparr0w wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

@Sparr0w I saw that your magblade's a werewolf. Being a vamp will give you an extra 10% recovery to help.

@WuffyCerulei

Was on the PTS since I'm a console player primarily. Even so that would add about 70 effective regen/s which would still leave a massive disparity between regen/drain

Can you screenshot the regen/used tab. Just seeing the overall used/regen doesn't really show much.

Sparr0w

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

@Sparr0w I saw that your magblade's a werewolf. Being a vamp will give you an extra 10% recovery to help.

@WuffyCerulei

Was on the PTS since I'm a console player primarily. Even so that would add about 70 effective regen/s which would still leave a massive disparity between regen/drain

Can you screenshot the regen/used tab. Just seeing the overall used/regen doesn't really show much.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO This was a parse from last week, I'm downloading the update today whilst at work & will be running another parse with the spell strategist set, so I'll try to remember to post it then.

Houshiki

Sparr0w wrote: »

Houshiki wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

Using a semi static rotation with witchmothers:

I'm sorry, but I have to say it: Welcome to the sorc's sustain problems, where our sustain sucked at launch, pre/post-morrowind, and continues to suck even now. I'm not even joking. T-T

Turelus wrote: »

Have you tried changing some of your spell damage to regeneration?

Houshiki wrote: »

A magblade not able to sustain? Well, that's a first.

To be fair, if you're not a light attack weaving machine then you'll hit this issue a lot. It's why I hate the MagBlade now (my main since launch) as so much of it's power relies on being great at weaving light attacks.

I haven't necessarily played magblades, but I can understand the importance of LA weaving, at least to pulling dps numbers, and especially when using elemental weapon as a spammable.

@Houshiki
Yup I play sorc too but had to shelve it since sustain was just awful. Thing that gets me is they added a cost to DK whip proc and NB bow proc to make them match Sorc frag proc, rather than just making Sorc frag proc free which would have alleviated a lot of the sustain issue & kept NB fun to play.

I've managed to alleviate some of the bad sustain with glyphs and absorb mag enchants, simply put, I refuse to shelf my main regardless of zos tries to do. But I can certainly agree with you, making the frag proc free would bring it into line with other similar abilities, while also greatly improving sustain considering how much procs you can get.

weedgenius wrote: »

I don’t get it... everyone says “welcome to the sucky sustain of every other class” and even dev comments in the pnotes were literally like “nightblades were too good so we made them worse to fit with other classes” but why aren’t they BUFFING other classes so everyone can play as good as mag nb instead of NERFING mag nb? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

It's all business unfortunately. What would be quicker, easier, more cost effective, and overall more efficient to do? Raise the line by thoughtfully buffing 4 different classes? Or nerfing the one class that's ahead back into line with the rest?

WuffyCerulei

Sparr0w wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

@Sparr0w I saw that your magblade's a werewolf. Being a vamp will give you an extra 10% recovery to help.

@WuffyCerulei

Was on the PTS since I'm a console player primarily. Even so that would add about 70 effective regen/s which would still leave a massive disparity between regen/drain

Oh okay. That explains a lot. Drives me nuts that template characters still can't be max level vamps.

Turelus

Houshiki wrote: »

I haven't necessarily played magblades, but I can understand the importance of LA weaving, at least to pulling dps numbers, and especially when using elemental weapon as a spammable.

It's not even limited to elemental weapon. Other classes get their sustain and damage from things outside of mandatory light attacks. Magicka Nightblade (and somewhat Stamina) have their sustain and one of their main damage skills entirely based around getting the most light attacks possible.

Yes you can heavy attack (and it was made more viable with Murkmire) but sadly as long as Siphoning Strikes relies on landing LA/HA for the Nightblades class sustain bonus it'll always be an issue for moderate players to use the class sustain.

MaleAmazon

Yes you can heavy attack (and it was made more viable with Murkmire) but sadly as long as Siphoning Strikes relies on landing LA/HA for the Nightblades class sustain bonus it'll always be an issue for moderate players to use the class sustain.

Jesus. No offense, but you have to use a skill on yourself, then point the mouse over an enemy and hold down a button. And the skill just got boosted for heavy attacks. If you cannot do this, trust me, the fault is not with ZOS but with you (unless you are an Australian with 14 second ping).

BigBadVolk

Sparr0w wrote: »

Need to run a regen glyph & absorb magicka glyph to sustain a dynamic rotation. Static one will likely have to run witchmothers too

vamp, magicka absorb glyph and golden food or witch mother is more then enough, also high elf helps too a bit

Houshiki

Turelus wrote: »

Houshiki wrote: »

I haven't necessarily played magblades, but I can understand the importance of LA weaving, at least to pulling dps numbers, and especially when using elemental weapon as a spammable.

It's not even limited to elemental weapon. Other classes get their sustain and damage from things outside of mandatory light attacks. Magicka Nightblade (and somewhat Stamina) have their sustain and one of their main damage skills entirely based around getting the most light attacks possible.

Yes you can heavy attack (and it was made more viable with Murkmire) but sadly as long as Siphoning Strikes relies on landing LA/HA for the Nightblades class sustain bonus it'll always be an issue for moderate players to use the class sustain.

True, very true. If I'm not mistaken, an NB's sustain is tied to LA weaving due to the siphoning attacks/leeching strikes ability, so to keep up sustain your LA weaving needs to be on point. And I'm guessing this is one reason why NB rotations is more rigorous and difficult to master.

Other classes though, this doesn't seem to be the case, so there would be less emphasis of an on point LA weaving. Wardens have their netch, templars have their rune, and dks have their combustion and battle roar passives. And sorcs have a some reduced costs, and a little bit extra regen.

John_Falstaff

@Houshiki , I wouldn't envy DKs here. I was doing parse just last day on sDK, my rotation heavily leans on poison, and what do you think? Combustion gave me a whopping 23 stamina/s income. It's horribly unreliable and weak source; basically slap in the face of all DKs - but it's a nice excuse for ZOS to say that they improved the sustain. And Battle Roar forces to use ultimate on cooldown, which is no better.

LadyNalcarya

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Hold down the attack button and you´ll do something called a "heavy attack".

Thank me later.

The problem is, heavy attacks are annoying and slow. Actually, it's one of the reasons why Morrowind changes werent very popular, having to use heavies disrupts the flow of combat (not to mention that it doesnt even make any sense that heavy attacks restore your stamina or magicka).
It would be much better if they would bring other classes on par with magblades, not other way around. And if they wanted to nerf dynamic rotations, they could've done something about skill durations, to make it less beneficial. At least it wouldnt affect average players (because an average player is not using complicated rotations).

Turelus

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Hold down the attack button and you´ll do something called a "heavy attack".

Thank me later.

The problem is, heavy attacks are annoying and slow. Actually, it's one of the reasons why Morrowind changes werent very popular, having to use heavies disrupts the flow of combat (not to mention that it doesnt even make any sense that heavy attacks restore your stamina or magicka).
It would be much better if they would bring other classes on par with magblades, not other way around. And if they wanted to nerf dynamic rotations, they could've done something about skill durations, to make it less beneficial. At least it wouldnt affect average players (because an average player is not using complicated rotations).

As long as they don't turn the entire game into LA Weave or GTFO.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Houshiki , I wouldn't envy DKs here. I was doing parse just last day on sDK, my rotation heavily leans on poison, and what do you think? Combustion gave me a whopping 23 stamina/s income. It's horribly unreliable and weak source; basically slap in the face of all DKs - but it's a nice excuse for ZOS to say that they improved the sustain. And Battle Roar forces to use ultimate on cooldown, which is no better.

Slot an infused poison enchant.

Sparr0w

Turelus wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Hold down the attack button and you´ll do something called a "heavy attack".

Thank me later.

The problem is, heavy attacks are annoying and slow. Actually, it's one of the reasons why Morrowind changes werent very popular, having to use heavies disrupts the flow of combat (not to mention that it doesnt even make any sense that heavy attacks restore your stamina or magicka).
It would be much better if they would bring other classes on par with magblades, not other way around. And if they wanted to nerf dynamic rotations, they could've done something about skill durations, to make it less beneficial. At least it wouldnt affect average players (because an average player is not using complicated rotations).

As long as they don't turn the entire game into LA Weave or GTFO.

Easy:
Make procs free (DK/Sorc/NB)
Make Conversion instant cast (Sorc)
Make Siphoning return resources every second & then only health on weave (NB)
Double resources from Combustion (100-200 per second, to align with other classes, DK)
Restoring Spirit add 1-2% reduction (Templar) **I cba calculating templar avg skill cost vs reduction so vary this one**
Netch is fine (Warden)

LadyNalcarya

Turelus wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Hold down the attack button and you´ll do something called a "heavy attack".

Thank me later.

The problem is, heavy attacks are annoying and slow. Actually, it's one of the reasons why Morrowind changes werent very popular, having to use heavies disrupts the flow of combat (not to mention that it doesnt even make any sense that heavy attacks restore your stamina or magicka).
It would be much better if they would bring other classes on par with magblades, not other way around. And if they wanted to nerf dynamic rotations, they could've done something about skill durations, to make it less beneficial. At least it wouldnt affect average players (because an average player is not using complicated rotations).

As long as they don't turn the entire game into LA Weave or GTFO.

Depends on what you mean.
If you mean top dps builds, then they all rely on light attack weaving, simply because light attack dps has been considerably buffed. It was probably meant to help low dps dds (aka "light attack spammers"), but it actually buffed endgame players instead (because they are good at weaving).
If we're talking about regular trials and dungeons, then you dont really need to be good at weaving. It's possible to push around 30k or even more with heavy attack builds. It isnt "meta", but it will be enough for pretty much anything except 2 latest trial hardmodes and I'm pretty sure that 30k is still well above average dps in pugs.
It's also kinda pointless to discuss top guild requirements and other stuff like this. ZOS has been working very hard to destroy endgame community, and those huge nerfs played a significant role in this process: basically they were burning the bridges between "average" and "hardcore" playerbases. The former has troubles with achieving good dps with constant nerfs and the latter is chocking without fresh blood (at least from what I've seen after Morrowind... When players leave and you simply dont have anyone to take their spots and guilds just fall apart). There are other reasons, of course (such as content design), but this one is very important.

ecru

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I don't usually say this, but welcome to the world of every other class.

heavy attacking isn't interesting gameplay

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ecru wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I don't usually say this, but welcome to the world of every other class.

heavy attacking isn't interesting gameplay

Light attacking is not either.