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On tanks and tanking - pve
Nurable
✭✭✭✭
Okay, so to start with,. I have been playing this game since PC beta (recently on and off). My tank was my third character and I've played the role a lot, both on ESO and other similar games. So I get how tanking works, the mechanics, its purpose and importance.
I have to say though, I don't enjoy it. At all. I only have a tank because there are so few in the game and even fewer that know what its role is about. So, I got to wondering why this is. There aren't that many healer either but a lot more than tanks. I understand DPS is the real fun and the game is all about dealing damage (from a combat perspective).
As it stands, tanking is really boring. You're just a buff char for the main part with a very simple and basic bag of tricks. On a DK stam tank (is there really any other type, tbh?) You pierce armour, you shield, you heroicly slash and you vigour.... And start again. When there is lots of mobs, you run around like a headless goon stabbing everything - when you have decent DPS in the group, trash mobs die before you can get to them. If you charge in, you waste a ton of stam and then by the time you've taunted them all, you don't have enough stam. Or you pound igneous shields to bring back stam. It's quite repetive and mundane. Okay, so we have two ranged taunts. But with so maany adds flailing about, it can be tricky to prioritize to the right mob to taunt. One way to fix this is to give tanks an aoe taunt. It might make DPS a little easier and fun (they won't have to run away from being hit by a scib) and the tank now has the issue of maintaining health and resources whilst a bucket load of mobs swing away at him or her. Isn't that the point of a tank?
The ultimates are so boring too. Warhorn, obviously. Brilliant. It does nothing for my role and I just buff the cocky DPS. I get a bit of extra resources, but don't need it. Then there is the sword and board ultimate. Is there a more underwhelming ability in the game? At least throw in a stun or aoe taunt with it. Dk standard is okay... At least it reduces the damage I take but I do so little damage that its use is negated.
The gear is frustrating but really what you'd expect apart from the 2/4% healing received "bonus" - oooh, 4% extra incoming healing. For over a year now, tanks have been rocking the Alkosh set. Hardly any DPS use it, but it's still a medium armour/stam DPS set. Yeah, I have the jewels and sword 'n board, but what am I going to do with the 5% slayer and weapon crit chance? I really begrudge using it (although I loved it on my stam dk DPS).
Because it's a mundane, repetive and dull role (for most), most people don't want to play it. Which means the activity finder queues for everyone else are slow.... So, impatient "deeps" set as a tank even though they have no taunt, have low health and midrange resistances. And this frustrates everyone else that patiently waited n the group finder.
I get that tanking is a very particular flavour and is really about managing resources so you can hold focus and mitigate incoming damage whilst protecting and buffing the group. But why not throw in some flair and "omg, did you see that" with it.
And then there is the issue of off tanks in trials. Is there any role that so important with so little to do? Whenever I go into a trial that needs an off tank (most of them), I usually have that awkward discussion of who will be the main tank. Take maw of lorkhaj as an example - the off tank has bits to do on the mob stages but virtually nothing at the first boss. They never have enoug magic to keep chaining in all the cats and talon them down and if the main tank is good, he'll never die. So, it was suggested to setup an off tank that's magic based. Good plan. But oh, wait, on the second boss you need two main tanks. Magic tank doesn't really cut it. And then the final boss; Stand around waiting for mini bosses, they go down quick, so stand around again - I could use the ability that takes 30% of someone's damage, but really?. ZOS, you must appreciate this is an odd situation. To have a must role that, for the most part in the tensest of situations is wondering how he/she can be of use to the group. I understand this is a larger quandary and would require wholesale changes to the trials, but still. It's a weird role that literally nobody neither enjoys nor wants to do.
Tl;Dr - long and short, please make tanking more enjoyable. I'm not asking for a bump in damage. Just some enjoyment - effective abilities, ultimates that help me out too, not just the DPS, etc.
Also, and finally. Please please please let us have multiple setups for each char. I want to do we quests an my tank but he does such tiddly damage that it's not feasible. I'd love to have a gear, skill and CP setup on him that lets me kill a rabbit in one hit. I can quest on him and unlock cool abilities like the ones in dark brotherhood or psijic order. It's not plausible to respec the char every hour so he can do a little damage and then be a tank again.
If ZOS are able to sort this out then activity finder queues will dramatically drop and there will be less frustrated healers and DPS.
Also, I get the reason for the activity finder cool down, but whilst the above exists you have to drop it or dramatically reduce it. I don't want to go into scallcaller peak on vet with a mag sorc who set themselves as tank because they didn't want to wait literally 1 hour and then leave only to be punished. Yeah, we could kick the non-tank but we'd still have to wait for a tank, which could take hour.
Aaaaand. Why not have a merchant at the beginning of every dungeon? If you're going to make us wait an hour in the queue, we'll quest. Which means our gear gets damaged. Let us repair using a merchant. Or for those that "don't have any soul gems" - really??? - they can buy them there.
That was longer than expected.
I really hope you take this into consideration, ZOS. If you don't do it, nothing will happen... People will continue playing, the world will still spin and people will rage at each other. If you do take some of that in, you might get some more player :P
I have to say though, I don't enjoy it. At all. I only have a tank because there are so few in the game and even fewer that know what its role is about. So, I got to wondering why this is. There aren't that many healer either but a lot more than tanks. I understand DPS is the real fun and the game is all about dealing damage (from a combat perspective).
As it stands, tanking is really boring. You're just a buff char for the main part with a very simple and basic bag of tricks. On a DK stam tank (is there really any other type, tbh?) You pierce armour, you shield, you heroicly slash and you vigour.... And start again. When there is lots of mobs, you run around like a headless goon stabbing everything - when you have decent DPS in the group, trash mobs die before you can get to them. If you charge in, you waste a ton of stam and then by the time you've taunted them all, you don't have enough stam. Or you pound igneous shields to bring back stam. It's quite repetive and mundane. Okay, so we have two ranged taunts. But with so maany adds flailing about, it can be tricky to prioritize to the right mob to taunt. One way to fix this is to give tanks an aoe taunt. It might make DPS a little easier and fun (they won't have to run away from being hit by a scib) and the tank now has the issue of maintaining health and resources whilst a bucket load of mobs swing away at him or her. Isn't that the point of a tank?
The ultimates are so boring too. Warhorn, obviously. Brilliant. It does nothing for my role and I just buff the cocky DPS. I get a bit of extra resources, but don't need it. Then there is the sword and board ultimate. Is there a more underwhelming ability in the game? At least throw in a stun or aoe taunt with it. Dk standard is okay... At least it reduces the damage I take but I do so little damage that its use is negated.
The gear is frustrating but really what you'd expect apart from the 2/4% healing received "bonus" - oooh, 4% extra incoming healing. For over a year now, tanks have been rocking the Alkosh set. Hardly any DPS use it, but it's still a medium armour/stam DPS set. Yeah, I have the jewels and sword 'n board, but what am I going to do with the 5% slayer and weapon crit chance? I really begrudge using it (although I loved it on my stam dk DPS).
Because it's a mundane, repetive and dull role (for most), most people don't want to play it. Which means the activity finder queues for everyone else are slow.... So, impatient "deeps" set as a tank even though they have no taunt, have low health and midrange resistances. And this frustrates everyone else that patiently waited n the group finder.
I get that tanking is a very particular flavour and is really about managing resources so you can hold focus and mitigate incoming damage whilst protecting and buffing the group. But why not throw in some flair and "omg, did you see that" with it.
And then there is the issue of off tanks in trials. Is there any role that so important with so little to do? Whenever I go into a trial that needs an off tank (most of them), I usually have that awkward discussion of who will be the main tank. Take maw of lorkhaj as an example - the off tank has bits to do on the mob stages but virtually nothing at the first boss. They never have enoug magic to keep chaining in all the cats and talon them down and if the main tank is good, he'll never die. So, it was suggested to setup an off tank that's magic based. Good plan. But oh, wait, on the second boss you need two main tanks. Magic tank doesn't really cut it. And then the final boss; Stand around waiting for mini bosses, they go down quick, so stand around again - I could use the ability that takes 30% of someone's damage, but really?. ZOS, you must appreciate this is an odd situation. To have a must role that, for the most part in the tensest of situations is wondering how he/she can be of use to the group. I understand this is a larger quandary and would require wholesale changes to the trials, but still. It's a weird role that literally nobody neither enjoys nor wants to do.
Tl;Dr - long and short, please make tanking more enjoyable. I'm not asking for a bump in damage. Just some enjoyment - effective abilities, ultimates that help me out too, not just the DPS, etc.
Also, and finally. Please please please let us have multiple setups for each char. I want to do we quests an my tank but he does such tiddly damage that it's not feasible. I'd love to have a gear, skill and CP setup on him that lets me kill a rabbit in one hit. I can quest on him and unlock cool abilities like the ones in dark brotherhood or psijic order. It's not plausible to respec the char every hour so he can do a little damage and then be a tank again.
If ZOS are able to sort this out then activity finder queues will dramatically drop and there will be less frustrated healers and DPS.
Also, I get the reason for the activity finder cool down, but whilst the above exists you have to drop it or dramatically reduce it. I don't want to go into scallcaller peak on vet with a mag sorc who set themselves as tank because they didn't want to wait literally 1 hour and then leave only to be punished. Yeah, we could kick the non-tank but we'd still have to wait for a tank, which could take hour.
Aaaaand. Why not have a merchant at the beginning of every dungeon? If you're going to make us wait an hour in the queue, we'll quest. Which means our gear gets damaged. Let us repair using a merchant. Or for those that "don't have any soul gems" - really??? - they can buy them there.
That was longer than expected.
I really hope you take this into consideration, ZOS. If you don't do it, nothing will happen... People will continue playing, the world will still spin and people will rage at each other. If you do take some of that in, you might get some more player :P
12
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really enjoy tanking, at least in dungeons. For me, its about controlling the battlefield.
On mobs, I dont try to taunt every enemy. I only taunt the important ones - the minibosses and those 2 hander ones who will try to one shot my squishy DDs. Nope, not happening this time! I crowd control the rest of the mob so they gather up in a nice little area around me, oh, right about the right size for Caltrops, endless hail, and elemental blockade...and if my DDs are on point, the mobs just melt.
An AOE taunt would turn this little dance into a very simple affair. I taunt the mob and turtle. The healer heals me. The DDs kill things. Easy. To me, that's boring. I like battlefield control, not being a turtle.
To each their own.3 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭You don't have to become a turtle. You can buff the damage immediately. Throw in some fiery breath and they'll take 10% more damage from fire attacks. When you're holding the boss still and adds spawn, you don't want to be turning your attention to them, moving around and dragging the boss out of all the lovely aoes the DPS have placed.
Once taunted, there is a lot you can do, which creates fun. If you're running around taunting, you're not really doing as much as you can.
Imagine the adds in white gold tower. Taunt them all at the same time, then throw down some talons to reduce their outgoing damage and hold them in place, some fiery breath so they take more flame damage, some light attacks for the crushing enchant. Some heroic slash for some ultimate, activate synergies to proc Alkosh, chains to pull in ranged mobs. All of this is possible plus more if you don't have to run around stabbing all the adds.
Imagine how useful aoe taunt would be on plannar inhibitor if you let some adds out. When doing a pug, that happens all the time.
An aoe taunt opens up so much more for tanking than just run here, stab, run there, stab...
With more than just taunting, tanking becomes interesting and has real utility. People can really delve into it and work out the best combos for maximum impact.
The taunt should be implied on a tank so they can focus protecting and biluffing. The taunt shouldn't be the most frequent part of the role.
So many people bemoan the run here, stab mechanic of tanking and that's what puts them off the role. Change that and more people will tank. More people tanking = better group experiences.
Of course, if you enjoy "battlefield control" you don't have to use the aoe taunt. If we get an aoe taunt, nothing changes for you. You just don't use it.
DPS is so fun when you watch the full limits of your painstaking build come to life. That doesn't happen if you're waiting for the tank to settle down with everyone's focus and not avoiding the heavy attack from a mob whilst (s)he's busy flirting for another enemies attention.3 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find tanking hot and cold. Sometimes it feels like being a god; other times it tempts me to rage quit. Lol. My DK tank could use some help to boost the fun meter and perhaps encourage others to take this least traveled path (tanking).
Make my s&b taunt and heroic slash scale damage based on my health instead of my stam. This might let me remain a pretty pure tank but still flirt with 10k dps. Why dps? Oh, bosses who ignore my taunts, 25 puny adds that are spread all over, fake dps who cannot burn through a dps check or get overwhelmed by ever-increasing add spawns. Also, I really don't want to reslot for dps to do solo questing. My pure healer does 15k dps; let my pure tank at least flirt with 10k.
Double the duration of my talons from 4 to 8 seconds. Wonderful skill but I've got other things to do besides spam it at 4 second intervals or let the group I'm holding in my group's killing zone escape.
I love chains but it does present me a problem and I'm not sure what the solution is. When I've got a dozen foes controlled in my face and I want to pull in a pesky ranged foe that my dps are not getting, chains needs to have a clear shot to reach him. That is hard to do with lots of foes already in my face. So I have to dance around to position for a clear shot. . . while not letting my dismal 4 seconds of talons expire on the foes I've already got locked in place. I'll accept that this small frustration may just be a 'get gud' thing. Lol.Edited by AcadianPaladin on October 20, 2018 1:27PMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo3 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I really enjoy tanking, at least in dungeons. For me, its about controlling the battlefield.
On mobs, I dont try to taunt every enemy. I only taunt the important ones - the minibosses and those 2 hander ones who will try to one shot my squishy DDs. Nope, not happening this time! I crowd control the rest of the mob so they gather up in a nice little area around me, oh, right about the right size for Caltrops, endless hail, and elemental blockade...and if my DDs are on point, the mobs just melt.
An AOE taunt would turn this little dance into a very simple affair. I taunt the mob and turtle. The healer heals me. The DDs kill things. Easy. To me, that's boring. I like battlefield control, not being a turtle.
To each their own.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to cause offense... But it sounds like you're not doing the harder vet dungeons or trials. Mobs don't melt that quickly and there can be a lot of them with mini mini bosses to hold onto too.
If you are doing them, the apologies for the insinuation
0 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I find tanking hot and cold. Sometimes it feels like being a god; other times it tempts me to rage quit. Lol. My DK tank could use some help to boost the fun meter and perhaps encourage others to take this least traveled path (tanking).
Make my s&b taunt and heroic slash scale damage based on my health instead of my stam. This might let me remain a pretty pure tank but still flirt with 10k dps. Why dps? Oh, bosses who ignore my taunts, 25 puny adds that are spread all over, fake dps who cannot burn through a dps check or get overwhelmed by ever-increasing add spawns. Also, I really don't want to reslot for dps to do solo questing. My pure healer does 15k dps; let my pure tank at least flirt with 10k.
Double the duration of my talons from 4 to 8 seconds. Wonderful skill but I've got other things to do besides spam it at 4 second intervals or let the group I'm holding in my group's killing zone escape.
I love chains but it does present me a problem and I'm not sure what the solution is. When I've got a dozen foes controlled in my face and I want to pull in a pesky ranged foe that my dps are not getting, chains needs to have a clear shot to reach him. That is hard to do with lots of foes already in my face. So I have to dance around to position for a clear shot. . . while not letting my dismal 4 seconds of talons expire on the foes I've already got locked in place. I'll accept that this small frustration may just be a 'get gud' thing. Lol.
Yup, with you brother. Love talons and chains but a) talons don't last long enough (understandable though, really, if I'm being objective and rational) and b) both are too expensive for stam chars. Why can't they cost stam instead?0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds like you aren't a big fan of "traditional" tanking, and would enjoy a tank/damage dealer hybrid. It's fun, and can be quite effective. Try it out.
Get a sword & shield, and a destro staff of your choice. Get a taunt, a way to pull in mobs (chains, leash, etc.), however many skills you normally need to keep yourself alive while a boss is going all berserk on you, then fill up your bars with damage skills. Change your ultimates to something you like. Outside of organized trials, people will live without warhorn. Half the groups you end up in (especially if using the finder) will not gain as much group damage from WH as you laying down a Fiery Rage (or whatever) anyway.
Taunt priority adds, chain in the stragglers who are outside of friendly aoe range, then start laying down your own damage skills. Charge in like the most badass damage dealer ever, but actually intentionally grab aggro on the mobs who matter. You basically become the dungeon hero, and the other three are your sidekicks. Your damage won't be amazing (if you're tanking right, that is), BUT it will not be negligible either. You'll be helping things get done faster, you'll still be doing your "job" as a tank (I hope), and most importantly you'll be having more fun.
Don't beat your head against a wall doing something you simply do not enjoy. It's a game. Priority #1 is to have a good time. I promise you can find a way to do that while still performing your role as a tank. You just need to slide a little ways down the "tanky-tank < -- > glass cannon" scale is all. Not every tank needs to be an immortal juggernaut. Introduce some risk and damage into your tanking style, and see how you like it.
And let us know how it goes! Edited by GreenHere on October 20, 2018 1:51PM2 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I find tanking hot and cold. Sometimes it feels like being a god; other times it tempts me to rage quit. Lol. My DK tank could use some help to boost the fun meter and perhaps encourage others to take this least traveled path (tanking).
Make my s&b taunt and heroic slash scale damage based on my health instead of my stam. This might let me remain a pretty pure tank but still flirt with 10k dps. Why dps? Oh, bosses who ignore my taunts, 25 puny adds that are spread all over, fake dps who cannot burn through a dps check or get overwhelmed by ever-increasing add spawns. Also, I really don't want to reslot for dps to do solo questing. My pure healer does 15k dps; let my pure tank at least flirt with 10k.
Double the duration of my talons from 4 to 8 seconds. Wonderful skill but I've got other things to do besides spam it at 4 second intervals or let the group I'm holding in my group's killing zone escape.
I love chains but it does present me a problem and I'm not sure what the solution is. When I've got a dozen foes controlled in my face and I want to pull in a pesky ranged foe that my dps are not getting, chains needs to have a clear shot to reach him. That is hard to do with lots of foes already in my face. So I have to dance around to position for a clear shot. . . while not letting my dismal 4 seconds of talons expire on the foes I've already got locked in place. I'll accept that this small frustration may just be a 'get gud' thing. Lol.
I've found the solution most of the time is to simply hop up and snag them midair. ;P
You don't want to move the stack (obviously), so jumping upwards and getting the stragglers in that brief window where they're visible above the adds at your feet is your next best option if you can't make lateral moves.2 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Your post called tanking boring then listed a couple dozen variables a tank must manage. Do you think frustrating might be closer to what you are meaning to say?Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭Maybe try a different class to tank? From what I can gather most of you referred to DK tanking as if they are the only class that tanks. Wardens are heaps fun and very very different playstyle than DK. Mix it up? But you all do make very valid points and I can really get on board the "mis-queing" one! Far too many people que as tank with no clue, no taunt and don't care. Shame that cant be fixed....3
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Nurable✭✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »Your post called tanking boring then listed a couple dozen variables a tank must manage. Do you think frustrating might be closer to what you are meaning to say?
I get your point, but I feel like it is boring. The whole tanking thing, especially in easier content, feels very ineffective or unneeded. To be honest, what makes it boring is running around taunting everything. There are plenty of things to do, as you said, but the constant taunting gets in the way.
A good suggestion was to increase the duration of talons.
When tanking big bosses - trials bosses some vet dungeons bosses - it's definitely not boring and is very fun. But that's 5% of it all.
I have friends that really want to try tanking the big bosses but get bored of everything that leads up to it. And most of that comes from the incessant requirement to taunt2 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I find tanking hot and cold. Sometimes it feels like being a god; other times it tempts me to rage quit. Lol. My DK tank could use some help to boost the fun meter and perhaps encourage others to take this least traveled path (tanking).
Make my s&b taunt and heroic slash scale damage based on my health instead of my stam. This might let me remain a pretty pure tank but still flirt with 10k dps. Why dps? Oh, bosses who ignore my taunts, 25 puny adds that are spread all over, fake dps who cannot burn through a dps check or get overwhelmed by ever-increasing add spawns. Also, I really don't want to reslot for dps to do solo questing. My pure healer does 15k dps; let my pure tank at least flirt with 10k.
Double the duration of my talons from 4 to 8 seconds. Wonderful skill but I've got other things to do besides spam it at 4 second intervals or let the group I'm holding in my group's killing zone escape.
I love chains but it does present me a problem and I'm not sure what the solution is. When I've got a dozen foes controlled in my face and I want to pull in a pesky ranged foe that my dps are not getting, chains needs to have a clear shot to reach him. That is hard to do with lots of foes already in my face. So I have to dance around to position for a clear shot. . . while not letting my dismal 4 seconds of talons expire on the foes I've already got locked in place. I'll accept that this small frustration may just be a 'get gud' thing. Lol.
I've found the solution most of the time is to simply hop up and snag them midair. ;P
You don't want to move the stack (obviously), so jumping upwards and getting the stragglers in that brief window where they're visible above the adds at your feet is your next best option if you can't make lateral moves.
Awesome idea - will have to try that. PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I really enjoy tanking, at least in dungeons. For me, its about controlling the battlefield.
On mobs, I dont try to taunt every enemy. I only taunt the important ones - the minibosses and those 2 hander ones who will try to one shot my squishy DDs. Nope, not happening this time! I crowd control the rest of the mob so they gather up in a nice little area around me, oh, right about the right size for Caltrops, endless hail, and elemental blockade...and if my DDs are on point, the mobs just melt.
An AOE taunt would turn this little dance into a very simple affair. I taunt the mob and turtle. The healer heals me. The DDs kill things. Easy. To me, that's boring. I like battlefield control, not being a turtle.
To each their own.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to cause offense... But it sounds like you're not doing the harder vet dungeons or trials. Mobs don't melt that quickly and there can be a lot of them with mini mini bosses to hold onto too.
If you are doing them, the apologies for the insinuation
I don't tank trials, no, so I'm speaking mainly of dungeons, Sorry for not being clear about that. And true, on harder content, mobs don't melt that quick. But that doesn't change my rhythm, just makes the crowd control part of the fight more interesting - or more boring, I suppose, for the people who dislike that sort of thing. I enjoy it. The harder the dungeon, the more crucial good crowd control is, especially if group DPS is low and the fight drags on.
I disagree on the idea that an AOE taunt would be optional - something I could just not use if I didn't want to.
For one, ESO's dungeon roles are designed around not having an AOE taunt. The Devs didn't "forget" to put one in the game - no, they deliberately left it out. This means that DDs and healers have to be able to take a few hits as the tank can't possibly taunt everything and the mobs are designed for a mix of melee and ranged. That's especially crucial on harder content. While the tank taunts the minibosses and powerful adds in the mob, the DDs and the healer have to be able to handle the less powerful adds. That's how ESO intends for the dungeon to be played.
Add in an AOE taunt and the meta changes. Now, its about how many mobs that tank can pull and survive, while the DDs and healer never have to worry about getting hit, so all the healer has to do is heal the tank and the DDs do damage. That's something ESO tries to avoid. An AOE taunt would make ESO dungeon mob pulls much simpler, and thus enormously simplify the dungeon runs. ESO would need to completely redesign their dungeons if they wanted to avoid tanks taunting and turtling, healers healing the tank, and DDs just killing things with impunity. I mean, if I could pull all the aggro on me with one or three AOE taunts the only way my DDs would die is if they stood in stupid, at least as long as my healer could keep me up, and I'd be on a tank built to do two things: AOE taunt and stay alive. Doing anything else beyond maybe throwing a few buffs would just be inefficient.
Can I ignore that AOE taunt? Nope. Because once the meta changes, the groups I PUG for will design for that meta. They'll expect a "new" tank, who completes the dungeon the most efficient way - AOE taunt as many mobs as they can handle, turtle, and get healed while the DDs kill everything. Trying to be an "old" tank who does battlefield control and expects DDs and healers to be able to take a hit? That's inefficient and possibly harmful to the group.
So no, if there's an AOE taunt introduced to ESO's dungeons as they are designed, it will become the new meta and it will be effectively mandatory because it is so much more efficient to AOE taunt and turtle than the old method of taunting priority adds and doing battlefield control.
Now, its not like ESO couldn't redesign their dungeons to be interesting for tanks once they add an AOE taunt. There's mechanics for that - after all, plenty of games manage to have interesting raid content with AOE taunts. However, that would require ZOS to redesign all their dungeons...and I strongly suspect that's unlikely to happen. They've got a system they clearly feel works, so why change it when that would require changing all their dungeon content to keep it interesting?
So in short, unless ZOS redesigns their dungeons with AOE taunting in mind, I think an AOE taunt would make the dungeons efficient yet boring. I might change my mind if ZOS actually did a redesign to account for the changes in dungeon roles as AOE taunt would bring, but I think that's vanishingly unlikely to happen.2 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I really enjoy tanking, at least in dungeons. For me, its about controlling the battlefield.
On mobs, I dont try to taunt every enemy. I only taunt the important ones - the minibosses and those 2 hander ones who will try to one shot my squishy DDs. Nope, not happening this time! I crowd control the rest of the mob so they gather up in a nice little area around me, oh, right about the right size for Caltrops, endless hail, and elemental blockade...and if my DDs are on point, the mobs just melt.
An AOE taunt would turn this little dance into a very simple affair. I taunt the mob and turtle. The healer heals me. The DDs kill things. Easy. To me, that's boring. I like battlefield control, not being a turtle.
To each their own.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to cause offense... But it sounds like you're not doing the harder vet dungeons or trials. Mobs don't melt that quickly and there can be a lot of them with mini mini bosses to hold onto too.
If you are doing them, the apologies for the insinuation
I don't tank trials, no, so I'm speaking mainly of dungeons, Sorry for not being clear about that. And true, on harder content, mobs don't melt that quick. But that doesn't change my rhythm, just makes the crowd control part of the fight more interesting - or more boring, I suppose, for the people who dislike that sort of thing. I enjoy it. The harder the dungeon, the more crucial good crowd control is, especially if group DPS is low and the fight drags on.
I disagree on the idea that an AOE taunt would be optional - something I could just not use if I didn't want to.
For one, ESO's dungeon roles are designed around not having an AOE taunt. The Devs didn't "forget" to put one in the game - no, they deliberately left it out. This means that DDs and healers have to be able to take a few hits as the tank can't possibly taunt everything and the mobs are designed for a mix of melee and ranged. That's especially crucial on harder content. While the tank taunts the minibosses and powerful adds in the mob, the DDs and the healer have to be able to handle the less powerful adds. That's how ESO intends for the dungeon to be played.
Add in an AOE taunt and the meta changes. Now, its about how many mobs that tank can pull and survive, while the DDs and healer never have to worry about getting hit, so all the healer has to do is heal the tank and the DDs do damage. That's something ESO tries to avoid. An AOE taunt would make ESO dungeon mob pulls much simpler, and thus enormously simplify the dungeon runs. ESO would need to completely redesign their dungeons if they wanted to avoid tanks taunting and turtling, healers healing the tank, and DDs just killing things with impunity. I mean, if I could pull all the aggro on me with one or three AOE taunts the only way my DDs would die is if they stood in stupid, at least as long as my healer could keep me up, and I'd be on a tank built to do two things: AOE taunt and stay alive. Doing anything else beyond maybe throwing a few buffs would just be inefficient.
Can I ignore that AOE taunt? Nope. Because once the meta changes, the groups I PUG for will design for that meta. They'll expect a "new" tank, who completes the dungeon the most efficient way - AOE taunt as many mobs as they can handle, turtle, and get healed while the DDs kill everything. Trying to be an "old" tank who does battlefield control and expects DDs and healers to be able to take a hit? That's inefficient and possibly harmful to the group.
So no, if there's an AOE taunt introduced to ESO's dungeons as they are designed, it will become the new meta and it will be effectively mandatory because it is so much more efficient to AOE taunt and turtle than the old method of taunting priority adds and doing battlefield control.
Now, its not like ESO couldn't redesign their dungeons to be interesting for tanks once they add an AOE taunt. There's mechanics for that - after all, plenty of games manage to have interesting raid content with AOE taunts. However, that would require ZOS to redesign all their dungeons...and I strongly suspect that's unlikely to happen. They've got a system they clearly feel works, so why change it when that would require changing all their dungeon content to keep it interesting?
So in short, unless ZOS redesigns their dungeons with AOE taunting in mind, I think an AOE taunt would make the dungeons efficient yet boring. I might change my mind if ZOS actually did a redesign to account for the changes in dungeon roles as AOE taunt would bring, but I think that's vanishingly unlikely to happen.
Can’t say it better. Also OP, you don’t have to taunt everything. A tank needs to try to control all the mobs so that the stay stacked in one spot, but for most of them it makes no difference who they are attacking.
Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest4 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe try a different class to tank? From what I can gather most of you referred to DK tanking as if they are the only class that tanks. Wardens are heaps fun and very very different playstyle than DK. Mix it up? But you all do make very valid points and I can really get on board the "mis-queing" one! Far too many people que as tank with no clue, no taunt and don't care. Shame that cant be fixed....
Agree on trying out a different class. I have a tank in each of the 5 classes, and each are fun in various ways. It's interesting to experience and learn from each one's strengths and weaknesses, and refine their build to suit.
I'm currently rather enjoying my magSorc tank. Great survivability, and more damage than a lot of PuGs have (~20K). And no, it's not just a dps leaning heavily on shields; I've got max resists, 30k health, and the usual tank skills slotted (Pierce, Slash, Leash).3 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭Sounds like you aren't a big fan of "traditional" tanking, and would enjoy a tank/damage dealer hybrid. It's fun, and can be quite effective. Try it out.
Get a sword & shield, and a destro staff of your choice. Get a taunt, a way to pull in mobs (chains, leash, etc.), however many skills you normally need to keep yourself alive while a boss is going all berserk on you, then fill up your bars with damage skills. Change your ultimates to something you like. Outside of organized trials, people will live without warhorn. Half the groups you end up in (especially if using the finder) will not gain as much group damage from WH as you laying down a Fiery Rage (or whatever) anyway.
Taunt priority adds, chain in the stragglers who are outside of friendly aoe range, then start laying down your own damage skills. Charge in like the most badass damage dealer ever, but actually intentionally grab aggro on the mobs who matter. You basically become the dungeon hero, and the other three are your sidekicks. Your damage won't be amazing (if you're tanking right, that is), BUT it will not be negligible either. You'll be helping things get done faster, you'll still be doing your "job" as a tank (I hope), and most importantly you'll be having more fun.
Don't beat your head against a wall doing something you simply do not enjoy. It's a game. Priority #1 is to have a good time. I promise you can find a way to do that while still performing your role as a tank. You just need to slide a little ways down the "tanky-tank < -- > glass cannon" scale is all. Not every tank needs to be an immortal juggernaut. Introduce some risk and damage into your tanking style, and see how you like it.
And let us know how it goes!
I gave you an insightful tag on that, but ( ) I tried a dpsy tank many moons ago and it is kinda fun. But, I love traditional tanking, I really do. I love taking on the big bosses. Back when Bogdan was really difficult, I loved tanking him - this gargantuan beast throwing everything he has at me. When I do the harder stuff these days, I regularly get messages from people thanking me for being a proper tank. I really enjoy it. But, those kinds of bosses aren't too regular so I find myself bored on everything prior to the big boss.
Having said that, I have just created a warden which will be a tank for the easier content. I'll set him up to be less tanky and more damagy and will try out frost/magic tanking. But, I know I did this before with a magic DK tank it wasn't as enjoyable.
To be fair, for me, if they introduce an aoe taunt (just replace the shield bash ability... does anyone actually use that?), and reduce the cost of talons and chains I'd be sated, for now
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BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭I could get behind a cost reduction to chains/leash. It wouldn’t even need to be that much.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I really enjoy tanking, at least in dungeons. For me, its about controlling the battlefield.
On mobs, I dont try to taunt every enemy. I only taunt the important ones - the minibosses and those 2 hander ones who will try to one shot my squishy DDs. Nope, not happening this time! I crowd control the rest of the mob so they gather up in a nice little area around me, oh, right about the right size for Caltrops, endless hail, and elemental blockade...and if my DDs are on point, the mobs just melt.
An AOE taunt would turn this little dance into a very simple affair. I taunt the mob and turtle. The healer heals me. The DDs kill things. Easy. To me, that's boring. I like battlefield control, not being a turtle.
To each their own.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to cause offense... But it sounds like you're not doing the harder vet dungeons or trials. Mobs don't melt that quickly and there can be a lot of them with mini mini bosses to hold onto too.
If you are doing them, the apologies for the insinuation
I don't tank trials, no, so I'm speaking mainly of dungeons, Sorry for not being clear about that. And true, on harder content, mobs don't melt that quick. But that doesn't change my rhythm, just makes the crowd control part of the fight more interesting - or more boring, I suppose, for the people who dislike that sort of thing. I enjoy it. The harder the dungeon, the more crucial good crowd control is, especially if group DPS is low and the fight drags on.
I disagree on the idea that an AOE taunt would be optional - something I could just not use if I didn't want to.
For one, ESO's dungeon roles are designed around not having an AOE taunt. The Devs didn't "forget" to put one in the game - no, they deliberately left it out. This means that DDs and healers have to be able to take a few hits as the tank can't possibly taunt everything and the mobs are designed for a mix of melee and ranged. That's especially crucial on harder content. While the tank taunts the minibosses and powerful adds in the mob, the DDs and the healer have to be able to handle the less powerful adds. That's how ESO intends for the dungeon to be played.
Add in an AOE taunt and the meta changes. Now, its about how many mobs that tank can pull and survive, while the DDs and healer never have to worry about getting hit, so all the healer has to do is heal the tank and the DDs do damage. That's something ESO tries to avoid. An AOE taunt would make ESO dungeon mob pulls much simpler, and thus enormously simplify the dungeon runs. ESO would need to completely redesign their dungeons if they wanted to avoid tanks taunting and turtling, healers healing the tank, and DDs just killing things with impunity. I mean, if I could pull all the aggro on me with one or three AOE taunts the only way my DDs would die is if they stood in stupid, at least as long as my healer could keep me up, and I'd be on a tank built to do two things: AOE taunt and stay alive. Doing anything else beyond maybe throwing a few buffs would just be inefficient.
Can I ignore that AOE taunt? Nope. Because once the meta changes, the groups I PUG for will design for that meta. They'll expect a "new" tank, who completes the dungeon the most efficient way - AOE taunt as many mobs as they can handle, turtle, and get healed while the DDs kill everything. Trying to be an "old" tank who does battlefield control and expects DDs and healers to be able to take a hit? That's inefficient and possibly harmful to the group.
So no, if there's an AOE taunt introduced to ESO's dungeons as they are designed, it will become the new meta and it will be effectively mandatory because it is so much more efficient to AOE taunt and turtle than the old method of taunting priority adds and doing battlefield control.
Now, its not like ESO couldn't redesign their dungeons to be interesting for tanks once they add an AOE taunt. There's mechanics for that - after all, plenty of games manage to have interesting raid content with AOE taunts. However, that would require ZOS to redesign all their dungeons...and I strongly suspect that's unlikely to happen. They've got a system they clearly feel works, so why change it when that would require changing all their dungeon content to keep it interesting?
So in short, unless ZOS redesigns their dungeons with AOE taunting in mind, I think an AOE taunt would make the dungeons efficient yet boring. I might change my mind if ZOS actually did a redesign to account for the changes in dungeon roles as AOE taunt would bring, but I think that's vanishingly unlikely to happen.
I think the meta is setup perfectly for an AoE taunt. I'm not after a 50m taunt. There will always be adds that are too far away and need to be left or chained in.
You're right, ZOS did leave it out on purpose... I remember them discussing it in a twitch stream once, a while ago. I feel it's just a bit easy for them - the tanks have something to do... they can go around taunting. I remember when they introduced weapon ultimate abilities. All but the snb ultimate's were really good, but us tanks got left behind again.
I know people that have healed and dps'd in this game since the beginning and still do it. I don't know of any tank that's been tanking since the beginning. When I speak to them, the common response is "I got bored".
But, as has been said, to each, their own. I might give up on my tanks and build another healer or dps in their place. If ever tanking mechs changes, I'll give it another go
The frustrating result of my post is that only people that enjoy tanking will read this and thus disagree with me, which is find . The people frustrated or bored with it aren't going to read it so can't add their perspective. All I can go on is how I feel and what the dozens of people I've played this game with have said. 3 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭@arun_rajputb16_ESO I think I’m starting to realize why your posts puzzle me. Usually when somebody criticizes tanking in ESO, it is plain from the discussion that they don’t really understand good tanking. You on the other hand seem to understand (to the best I can tell in a few posts) and yet even understanding you actually don’t like it. (In most content). I don’t think I can get my mind around that! I see it as constantly engaging no matter how weak the content, and seeing the exact same content, you consider it dull. Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
grizzly375✭✭✭I play tank classes in a lot of different games, but the lack of an AOE taunt, and pathetically low DPS output for solo/overland content in ESO has made me roll then delete numerous tanks. When I play a DK tank, the fact that the majority of my skills cost magicka (my lowest stat), means I'm VERY limited in the number of skills I can accomplish. Then blocking and "offensive" skills cost Stam, so I have to have plenty of that, plus points into health so I don't get one-shotted by Vet bosses (and even some normal Bosses on harder content). There's just not enough attribute points to spread around to make all that work well.
If there was a way to INEXPENSIVELY switch attributes and skills, this would change. Overland solo, run all Stam or all Magicka in Medium or Light armor. Lining up to tank? Switch to tank set with a blend of stats, heavy armor, S&B, and go to work...
But, I'd still love an AOE taunt as well.2 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »@arun_rajputb16_ESO I think I’m starting to realize why your posts puzzle me. Usually when somebody criticizes tanking in ESO, it is plain from the discussion that they don’t really understand good tanking. You on the other hand seem to understand (to the best I can tell in a few posts) and yet even understanding you actually don’t like it. (In most content). I don’t think I can get my mind around that! I see it as constantly engaging no matter how weak the content, and seeing the exact same content, you consider it dull.
I play with some very good damage dealers and healers so when they're really good, tanking for the vas majority of the time is just boring.
When these guys want to try out tanking, they get bored because they really have nothing to do most of the time.
For E.g, vet crypt 2. The boss just before nerineth - she's dead before she pulls us in for the big aoe. I have literally nothing to do up until nerineth… apart from big skeleton dude, who is enjoyable to tank.
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Nurable✭✭✭✭arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »@arun_rajputb16_ESO I think I’m starting to realize why your posts puzzle me. Usually when somebody criticizes tanking in ESO, it is plain from the discussion that they don’t really understand good tanking. You on the other hand seem to understand (to the best I can tell in a few posts) and yet even understanding you actually don’t like it. (In most content). I don’t think I can get my mind around that! I see it as constantly engaging no matter how weak the content, and seeing the exact same content, you consider it dull.
I play with some very good damage dealers and healers so when they're really good, tanking for the vas majority of the time is just boring.
When these guys want to try out tanking, they get bored because they really have nothing to do most of the time.
For E.g, vet crypt 2. The boss just before nerineth - she's dead before she pulls us in for the big aoe. I have literally nothing to do up until nerineth… apart from big skeleton dude, who is enjoyable to tank.
And then there is pug tanking. If the dps is really low (which I don't mind), the same old puncture, slash, vigour, shields rotation on a boss becomes really boring.0 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭grizzly375 wrote: »I play tank classes in a lot of different games, but the lack of an AOE taunt, and pathetically low DPS output for solo/overland content in ESO has made me roll then delete numerous tanks. When I play a DK tank, the fact that the majority of my skills cost magicka (my lowest stat), means I'm VERY limited in the number of skills I can accomplish. Then blocking and "offensive" skills cost Stam, so I have to have plenty of that, plus points into health so I don't get one-shotted by Vet bosses (and even some normal Bosses on harder content). There's just not enough attribute points to spread around to make all that work well.
If there was a way to INEXPENSIVELY switch attributes and skills, this would change. Overland solo, run all Stam or all Magicka in Medium or Light armor. Lining up to tank? Switch to tank set with a blend of stats, heavy armor, S&B, and go to work...
But, I'd still love an AOE taunt as well.
This would be so helpful. The community has been asking for loadouts for so long. I don't want to have three magic templars, one for pve group healing, another for pve damage and the last for pvp. That's three sets of mages guild books and psijic order time tear closing. I can't do the psijic time tear quests on my tank because it takes an age to kill a squirrel. I can't respect because it costs too much and takes too long as I tank daily.
As I said previously and you mentioned, I'm going to shelve the tanking until ZOS make it more enjoyable.
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BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »@arun_rajputb16_ESO I think I’m starting to realize why your posts puzzle me. Usually when somebody criticizes tanking in ESO, it is plain from the discussion that they don’t really understand good tanking. You on the other hand seem to understand (to the best I can tell in a few posts) and yet even understanding you actually don’t like it. (In most content). I don’t think I can get my mind around that! I see it as constantly engaging no matter how weak the content, and seeing the exact same content, you consider it dull.
I play with some very good damage dealers and healers so when they're really good, tanking for the vas majority of the time is just boring.
When these guys want to try out tanking, they get bored because they really have nothing to do most of the time.
For E.g, vet crypt 2. The boss just before nerineth - she's dead before she pulls us in for the big aoe. I have literally nothing to do up until nerineth… apart from big skeleton dude, who is enjoyable to tank.
Ah. That clarified some. Your norm is mechanic breaking levels of DPS. Most players don’t play with that I suspect. I PUG 98% of the dungeons I do. So it explains some of the gap between our experiences. When I get an extremely poor DD group I also find the experience frustrating.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »@arun_rajputb16_ESO I think I’m starting to realize why your posts puzzle me. Usually when somebody criticizes tanking in ESO, it is plain from the discussion that they don’t really understand good tanking. You on the other hand seem to understand (to the best I can tell in a few posts) and yet even understanding you actually don’t like it. (In most content). I don’t think I can get my mind around that! I see it as constantly engaging no matter how weak the content, and seeing the exact same content, you consider it dull.
I play with some very good damage dealers and healers so when they're really good, tanking for the vas majority of the time is just boring.
When these guys want to try out tanking, they get bored because they really have nothing to do most of the time.
For E.g, vet crypt 2. The boss just before nerineth - she's dead before she pulls us in for the big aoe. I have literally nothing to do up until nerineth… apart from big skeleton dude, who is enjoyable to tank.
Ah. That clarified some. Your norm is mechanic breaking levels of DPS. Most players don’t play with that I suspect. I PUG 98% of the dungeons I do. So it explains some of the gap between our experiences. When I get an extremely poor DD group I also find the experience frustrating.
You'd be surprised, there are a lot of excellent DPS out there. They're in guilds and they shout out in guild chats for dungeon runs. Try that out and you'll see what I mean. Nothing worse than knowing you didn't have to be there at the end of a dungeon
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BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see why you want an aoe taunt now. It’s not so much that you want easy mode, you just want something that can make a difference before the creatures melt. I still disagree with including AOE taunts but again, helps me see where you are coming from.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »I see why you want an aoe taunt now. It’s not so much that you want easy mode, you just want something that can make a difference before the creatures melt. I still disagree with including AOE taunts but again, helps me see where you are coming from.
It's not just that, I want to be able to do more than just taunt. That's the root of it all. As a tank, I just feel like I'm just taunting. There really is very little skill to tanking 99% of the time. And then with so little dps for solo content, I never actually enjoy that character. He's just a lump that's useful 1% of the time.
Make tanking really varied, really fun - the frost staff was a nice idea but isn't quite right... heavy attack for a taunt isn't quite right becasuse the heavy attacks take so long to channel. And I think ZOS missed an opportunity with making a really powerful and very fun CC class using frost.
I scorn at people that say "urgh, zos don't even play the game". But sometimes, I do wonder.
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Raraaku✭✭✭✭DK tanks suffer from being able to do their jobs overtly well. I have honestly tanked vet HM dungeons using only one bar. The DK class is meant to be a natural choice for players who want to try, or are new, to tanking. My main is a DK tank, and he's always me default choice for new content or I'm just feeling lazy. I have leveled several other tank alts and can say that each class definitely bring their own distinct flavor to the role.
I do agree that I would like to see new group content in DLCs to bring in new and interesting mechanics designed to make life more interesting not only for tanks, but each role as well.
Meanwhile, is tank dps still absolutely atrocious? Just came back from a break that was partly due to being frustrated that my tank couldn't kill things quickly for solo/overland content and every fight was unnecessarily long until I had to just completely swap gear so that I could up my DPS. I know it was a pain point brought up back in July/August.Back from a much needed break. || I like having too many projects and working on them all at once.
Tank Enthusiast || CP: 445 || Stormproof
TanksKarsaak gro-Ursa: DC || Orc || Stamina Dragonknight || Tank || Level: CP 445
Sir Leopold Stotch: DC || Breton || Magicka Templar || Tank || Level: 445
Protects-Squishy-Ones: EP || Argonian || Magicka Sorcerer || Tank/CC || Level: CP 445
Björn Shadow-Walker: EP || Nord || Stamina Nightblade || Tank || Level: 15
Tiberius Valerion: AD || Imperial || Stamina Warden || Tank || Level: 15
Damage DealersMorrigan Ravyn-Cloak: AD || Altmer || Magicka Nightblade || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ra'Zahkara: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Dragonknight || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ezra al-Khazir: DC || Redguard || Stamina Templar || DPS || Level: 40
Erryndril Telvaux: EP || Dunmer || Magicka Dragonknight || DPS || Level: 25
Uzara gra-Khalari: DC || Orc || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [2H/DW] || Level: 15
Solomon Motierre: DC || Breton || Magicka Sorcerer || DPS || Level: 20
Ragnar the Wulf: EP || Nord || Stamina Warden || DPS || Level: 30
Ra'Rahku: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [Bow/Bow] || Level: 15
HealersSees-through-Hist: EP || Argonian || Magicka Warden || Healer/CC || CP 445
Daedalus the Artificer: AD || Altmer || Magicka Templar || Healer || Level: 150 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Raraaku it hasn’t changedRoyal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Camb0Sl1ce✭✭✭I personally enjoy tanking, when i have off tanked I dont really feel useless. Especially when both tanks communicate well. Like moving the hunter killers around in vhof to break the shields on the spheres.0
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karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tanks are part tank part CC class.
If you don't like being a CC class tanking wouldn't work with you in this game.1