On tanks and tanking - pve

Joxer61

speaking of tanking and such....which do you all prefer....Frozen Device or DK;s Grip? Grip for the most part "feels" quicker but you need to target, and that can get a bit crazy at times whereas with Device just throw it down....and hope mobs wander into it?
Just trying to get a feel for which skill really shines....since we are looking for other stuff for a tank to do, right?

GreenHere

For my personal preferences: DK Chains > Silver Leash > Warden Device

I don't much like the Warden Frozen Device skill for tanking. I know it works well for a lot of people, and has its benefits over Chains/Leash. But having to aim it, wait for it, and tolerate the dumb idea of it (I dislike it, thematically [for lack of a better word])... It's just not for me. I use Leash on my Warden tank, and forego the Device completely while tanking.

Device is fun in PvP, however. You can really mess up people who aren't watching were they step (read: damn near everyone during a keep battle). The amount of times I've teleported people deep into the keep where a massive group of my guys are fending off a massive group of their guys alone makes the skill worth it. The panic they have every time they realize they are suddenly the only one surrounded by an angry hornet's nest of Blues! lol. Ah, memories. I'm chuckling just sitting here thinking about it. :P

EDIT :: Whoops, forgot the quote somehow...

Joxer61 wrote: »

speaking of tanking and such....which do you all prefer....Frozen Device or DK;s Grip? Grip for the most part "feels" quicker but you need to target, and that can get a bit crazy at times whereas with Device just throw it down....and hope mobs wander into it?
Just trying to get a feel for which skill really shines....since we are looking for other stuff for a tank to do, right?

Silver_Strider

Oh those 1st World Tank issues. Well as a super salty NB Tank, I have to ask, if you feel that DK Tanking is such a bore, why don't you try to spice things up a bit?

Have you tried using a Medium Armor set up of Alkosh/Powerful Assault for Tanking? Your Weapon Damage should be high enough with that set up that you should be able to hit at least 10k DPS fairly easily, which should make questing a bit easier to do, and while it won't be as easy as a Heavy set up, it's still completely doable and should keep you on your toes enough to help stave off your current problems.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

I don't want a DPS tank, I just want to enjoy tanking in its purest form. I've played tank on other games and it's enjoyable.

I've tried every combination of class for tanks - I've had a tank of one form or another since the game was released on PC - other than stamplar (can't stand the idea of a stamplar for some reason). I find the dk to be best, but that's my personal choice.

Having said that, I'm giving the magic warden tank a go for easier content.

I've resigned myself to shelving/deleting my dk tank.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

. I just want to enjoy tanking in its purest form.

What form is that?

idk

I had to stop reading the OP. It was depressing me, besides being to long.

If I played a game like I saw OP describing tanking in the third paragraph I would quit, delete the game and move on.

Unfortunately for OP he seems to have missed some important aspects and part of that may be due to experience. In the more challenging content the tank needs to be remain sharp.

Suffice it to say that if you keep tanking only the easier content, the same stuff every day for years, it would get boring. Fortunately there are much more challenging content in the game that test the mettle of tanks.

VaxtinTheWolf

To respond to some comments about introducing an AOE taunt into this game, I would be fairly against that. However if It would be added I think something like this might appease the masses just to specifically have that 'feature'.


Warrior's Challenge (Crafted)

2 Pieces: Add Health
3 Pieces: Add Stamina or Add Health
4 Pieces: Incoming Healing
5 Pieces: When you taunt an enemy using a melee ability, taunt an additional 6 enemies in a 10m range for 15 seconds with a cooldown of 20/25 seconds.

RavenSworn

Been doing tanking on a sorc and nb since start and had my warden tank up to speed during the morrowind exp.

I personally find dk tanking boring. I just, for the life of me, can't find the drive to get a DK tank up and running. Perma blocking is boring to me and I do end up buffing dps more than buffing my own defenses.

I find nb tanking to be most challenging, as they really don't have that many tools to accommodate tanking and require lots of investment in other skill lines to bring it on the same level as a DK or warden tank.

As it stands however, much of your 'gripes' about tanking in eso stems from the fact that the balancing done in this mmo depends much on both the pve and the pve community. It's one of the reasons why talons are at that particular duration. It's why snares are reduced in effectiveness. Because of the sheer freedom of choice in this game, and because the balancing is done on equal terms between pvp and pve, alot of the abilities that the tank role does effectively are reduced or changed.

On the topic of things to do during tanking though, I'm absolutely sure that you don't need to taunt everything. Perhaps change your offhand weapon? Maybe a two hander? Mayhap using a dual wield might come in handy. A bow with ranged interrupt would be great as well. Check out the few guides regarding aggro in this game, you'll be surprised how easy it is to control the mobs without even using cc abilities.

On questing and all, I usually set my tank with 60 pts in Stam or mag, with the remaining in health. Infused chest, pants and head usually makes it enough for you to gain about 37k health, which is more than enough for you to tank anything, period. Cp wise, the only time I'll be frustrated would be when I go to pvp, as the red cp needs to change accordingly. Otherwise, the red cp are almost always universal. Changing your gear to medium or light sets almost guarantees you'd be doing 15k at least on mobs. There's also more than enough skill points for you to get a third weapon skill line for questing.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

idk wrote: »

I had to stop reading the OP. It was depressing me, besides being to long.

If I played a game like I saw OP describing tanking in the third paragraph I would quit, delete the game and move on.

Unfortunately for OP he seems to have missed some important aspects and part of that may be due to experience. In the more challenging content the tank needs to be remain sharp.

Suffice it to say that if you keep tanking only the easier content, the same stuff every day for years, it would get boring. Fortunately there are much more challenging content in the game that test the mettle of tanks.

There is a lesson here for you. Read the whole thing. I've mentioned over and over how I do the harder content and I talk about the weirdness of the off tank.

If you found my post boring and couldn't bring yourself to finish reading the the wise thing to do is not to comment - after all, you don't have all the facts of my opinion.

I was going to explain my problem is a sentence for you, but really, you're not worth the time.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

To respond to some comments about introducing an AOE taunt into this game, I would be fairly against that. However if It would be added I think something like this might appease the masses just to specifically have that 'feature'.


Warrior's Challenge (Crafted)

2 Pieces: Add Health
3 Pieces: Add Stamina or Add Health
4 Pieces: Incoming Healing
5 Pieces: When you taunt an enemy using a melee ability, taunt an additional 6 enemies in a 10m range for 15 seconds with a cooldown of 20/25 seconds.

Now that's a great solution. I would love that in easier content. Have an insightful on your comment

arun_rajputb16_ESO

The people that enjoy tanking will read this post and understandably disagree (for the most part).

Those that find it boring or ineffective won't read it and we won't get their perspectives. I could have been very lucky to have spoken to a few dozen people sharing my view on the matter, it is entirely possible.

However, there aren't enough tanks in the game. That's a fact. There has to be a reason why this is.

It's a complete non issue for the tanks calling me "depressing" or "inexperienced" (it's a forum, you don't need to resort to being offensive because you disagree with me). They walk into groups immediately and if they're good, they're in high demand. It stands to reason that they don't want this to change.

@RavenSworn - I completely agree that a lot of the tanking skills are the way they are because of PvP. I hate that my experience is tainted (in my opinion) because of PvP. I've thought, since the very beginning that ZOS should have separated out the skill lines. It's more work initially, but less work now. But it's done and built how it is. That will never change.

Joxer61

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Those that find it boring or ineffective won't read it and we won't get their perspectives. I could have been very lucky to have spoken to a few dozen people sharing my view on the matter, it is entirely possible.

However, there aren't enough tanks in the game. That's a fact. There has to be a reason why this is. .

I just made a post...aka novel on what I feel is a huge part of the no tank issue...check it out. I could be way off but if we are constantly going to be ignored or ran past or not needed at some point we will all just say f it and roll a DD!

arun_rajputb16_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. I just want to enjoy tanking in its purest form.

What form is that?

I think a tank is a role that is able to, sustainably, protect himself and the group whilst simultaneously keeping the focus of big hitters, crowd controlling trash and buffing the group.

I don't want to do noticeable damage. I have DPS for that. 10/15k DPS compared to 35k+ on my dds just seems pointless.

In any light, it seems my opinions are unpopular amongst my fellow tanks so I've thrown in the proverbial towel on tanking.

Hopefully see you guys/gals out there protecting and buffing me

Joxer61

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. I just want to enjoy tanking in its purest form.

What form is that?

I think a tank is a role that is able to, sustainably, protect himself and the group whilst simultaneously keeping the focus of big hitters, crowd controlling trash and buffing the group.

I don't want to do noticeable damage. I have DPS for that. 10/15k DPS compared to 35k+ on my dds just seems pointless.

In any light, it seems my opinions are unpopular amongst my fellow tanks so I've thrown in the proverbial towel on tanking.

Hopefully see you guys/gals out there protecting and buffing me

you quit tanking why? because someone was a jerk on forums? nah...don't let them win...stick to it, we need more tanks!!!

arun_rajputb16_ESO

Joxer61 wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. I just want to enjoy tanking in its purest form.

What form is that?

I think a tank is a role that is able to, sustainably, protect himself and the group whilst simultaneously keeping the focus of big hitters, crowd controlling trash and buffing the group.

I don't want to do noticeable damage. I have DPS for that. 10/15k DPS compared to 35k+ on my dds just seems pointless.

In any light, it seems my opinions are unpopular amongst my fellow tanks so I've thrown in the proverbial towel on tanking.

Hopefully see you guys/gals out there protecting and buffing me

you quit tanking why? because someone was a jerk on forums? nah...don't let them win...stick to it, we need more tanks!!!

Haha, no, I'm 39. I don't get upset because of forum comments. I've given up because I don't see tanking becoming all round enjoyable. I don't just want to tank once in a while on trials. And when people find out you have a good tank, they ask you to help out on dungeons. Which is where the boredom kicks in.

I read your post. It's a very good way of getting round the long queues but circumvents the core issue; tanking for the most part isn't as enjoyable as damage dealing or healing and thus, less people will do it. I can't see this being addressed and so, as far as tanking goes, I'm out. I'm not brooding or sulking... As someone said earlier, this is a game and to be enjoyed. I just won't enjoy it as a tank

RavenSworn

Honestly though, being tanks mean you get to

1) farm items easily
2) get instant que
3) get to dictate the fights
4) laugh at the face of a boss trying to bring you down while you are blocking
5) grab all the outliers via leash/chains and then laugh at the futile attempt of the mob trying to run away.
6) also instant que.
7) have I said it's instant que?

winterbornb14_ESO

The only tank I will play is a Templar heath tank (Blazing Shield build) but they just destroyed its ability to solo overland content due to damage nerf after nerf after.........

GreenHere

@arun_rajputb16_ESO , have you considered running a healer/tank hybrid, then? Since you say you have no interest in going dps/tank?

A good player who can be an actual tank while buffing/healing allies is just about the best thing you can hope for as a damage dealer, in dungeons at least. Lets 3 damage dealers just tear through harder stuff, and if you're truly doing a good job at tanking and healing/buffing at the same time, it's hard to imagine you'll be bored.

Rungar

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I find tanking hot and cold. Sometimes it feels like being a god; other times it tempts me to rage quit. Lol. My DK tank could use some help to boost the fun meter and perhaps encourage others to take this least traveled path (tanking).

Make my s&b taunt and heroic slash scale damage based on my health instead of my stam. This might let me remain a pretty pure tank but still flirt with 10k dps. Why dps? Oh, bosses who ignore my taunts, 25 puny adds that are spread all over, fake dps who cannot burn through a dps check or get overwhelmed by ever-increasing add spawns. Also, I really don't want to reslot for dps to do solo questing. My pure healer does 15k dps; let my pure tank at least flirt with 10k.

Double the duration of my talons from 4 to 8 seconds. Wonderful skill but I've got other things to do besides spam it at 4 second intervals or let the group I'm holding in my group's killing zone escape.

I love chains but it does present me a problem and I'm not sure what the solution is. When I've got a dozen foes controlled in my face and I want to pull in a pesky ranged foe that my dps are not getting, chains needs to have a clear shot to reach him. That is hard to do with lots of foes already in my face. So I have to dance around to position for a clear shot. . . while not letting my dismal 4 seconds of talons expire on the foes I've already got locked in place. I'll accept that this small frustration may just be a 'get gud' thing. Lol.

Those are good reasonable ideas. The solution for chains is to " pull the farthest enemy in front of you" or have a range of 8-28m so you cant pull very close enemies. The health scaling can be like wardens so it wouldnt be out of hand and you might get your 10k dps. I think the talons idea is too much and 6 seconds should be ok.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

GreenHere wrote: »

@arun_rajputb16_ESO , have you considered running a healer/tank hybrid, then? Since you say you have no interest in going dps/tank?

A good player who can be an actual tank while buffing/healing allies is just about the best thing you can hope for as a damage dealer, in dungeons at least. Lets 3 damage dealers just tear through harder stuff, and if you're truly doing a good job at tanking and healing/buffing at the same time, it's hard to imagine you'll be bored.

I did try it a couple of years ago when they gave dks a group heal and it was tricky. Tell me more. What gear, CP, skills and attributes? I take it a warden would be best suited for this kind of role? Haven't thought about it since they introduced wardens.

Rungar

the new cinder storm is actually pretty potent and you should give that a try.

profundidob16_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

I really enjoy tanking, at least in dungeons. For me, its about controlling the battlefield.

On mobs, I dont try to taunt every enemy. I only taunt the important ones - the minibosses and those 2 hander ones who will try to one shot my squishy DDs. Nope, not happening this time! I crowd control the rest of the mob so they gather up in a nice little area around me, oh, right about the right size for Caltrops, endless hail, and elemental blockade...and if my DDs are on point, the mobs just melt.

An AOE taunt would turn this little dance into a very simple affair. I taunt the mob and turtle. The healer heals me. The DDs kill things. Easy. To me, that's boring. I like battlefield control, not being a turtle.

To each their own.

THIS little minigame is exactly what I as well find fun in tanking. An aoe taunt would simply nullify all skill there is to it.

BUT the op has a point that if everything dies like a fly or dps don't get killed by them there is no point to it. The very fact that you don't 'need' to taunt every mob is already trivializing this mini-game of skillfully 'saving' the dps and healer.

I remember the lovely days of Everquest where mob packs consisted of no more than let's say 4 mobs and each were basically like dungeon bosses on their own. The "coercer" class in your group would put 1 of them to sleep with a mesmerize spell and refresh it before it's 30sec timer runs out and the well equipped and proper specced tank would barely be able to survive the other 3 hitting on him and this only with the healer actively healing him since by himself he had no significant selfhealing. In such a situation both the Tank and the healer felt like they had an important job. None of both could be taken out of the equation, just like dps. All 3 roles were equal and absolutely necessary in a 4 man group. In other words: Stuff doesn't hit hard enough in PVE group content in ESO to make healers and tanks significant.

profundidob16_ESO

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

To respond to some comments about introducing an AOE taunt into this game, I would be fairly against that. However if It would be added I think something like this might appease the masses just to specifically have that 'feature'.


Warrior's Challenge (Crafted)

2 Pieces: Add Health
3 Pieces: Add Stamina or Add Health
4 Pieces: Incoming Healing
5 Pieces: When you taunt an enemy using a melee ability, taunt an additional 6 enemies in a 10m range for 15 seconds with a cooldown of 20/25 seconds.

nice idea except the set should be called "Tank's Faceroll"

by the way, something like that exists already: You play templar tank and choose the "explosive charge" morph skill to hit all targets in a 5m radius around the target you are charging and you wear the tormentor set (which taunts targets affected by your charge skill)

GimpyPorcupine

I have a Negate/CC Sorc tank that I built for PVP, actually tanked nHRC with him, Impen and all. Sure, normal Crag trials are easy, but it was fun just the same. I had 100% uptime on the Atronach, which meant lots of Major Berserk for the DDs.

It's all what you make it. I happen to like tanking. But I reconfigure my tanks to DD before I go overland, for obvious reasons.

idk

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I had to stop reading the OP. It was depressing me, besides being to long.

If I played a game like I saw OP describing tanking in the third paragraph I would quit, delete the game and move on.

Unfortunately for OP he seems to have missed some important aspects and part of that may be due to experience. In the more challenging content the tank needs to be remain sharp.

Suffice it to say that if you keep tanking only the easier content, the same stuff every day for years, it would get boring. Fortunately there are much more challenging content in the game that test the mettle of tanks.

There is a lesson here for you. Read the whole thing. I've mentioned over and over how I do the harder content and I talk about the weirdness of the off tank.

If you found my post boring and couldn't bring yourself to finish reading the the wise thing to do is not to comment - after all, you don't have all the facts of my opinion.

I was going to explain my problem is a sentence for you, but really, you're not worth the time.

Yes, lesson learned. After going back and reading it I wish I had not.

It seems more like tanking in ESO is not your thing. The part suggesting an AoE taunt I think sums it up. You say tanking is boring for you yet you want an AoE taunt. You say you want more to do than stand around for a moment or two on Rakkhat, yet you want an AoE taunt. Have yet to find a fight an AoE taunt was really needed. In trials it can really mess things up due to taunt immunity. Just not needed in this game.

Maybe try DPS or heals or something else. Clearly not seeing many agreeing with you in this thread.

Psyonico

GreenHere wrote: »

I'm currently rather enjoying my magSorc tank. Great survivability, and more damage than a lot of PuGs have (~20K). And no, it's not just a dps leaning heavily on shields; I've got max resists, 30k health, and the usual tank skills slotted (Pierce, Slash, Leash).

Other than 30k health not being that high on a tank, I'd love to see your build, as I'm working on a magSorc tank myself right now.

GreenHere

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

@arun_rajputb16_ESO , have you considered running a healer/tank hybrid, then? Since you say you have no interest in going dps/tank?

A good player who can be an actual tank while buffing/healing allies is just about the best thing you can hope for as a damage dealer, in dungeons at least. Lets 3 damage dealers just tear through harder stuff, and if you're truly doing a good job at tanking and healing/buffing at the same time, it's hard to imagine you'll be bored.

I did try it a couple of years ago when they gave dks a group heal and it was tricky. Tell me more. What gear, CP, skills and attributes? I take it a warden would be best suited for this kind of role? Haven't thought about it since they introduced wardens.

Sure thing, always happy to help people get more enjoyment from the game. Especially in under-filled roles!
My Warden tank is more of the robust Nord, ice-themed tough guy type. Almost entirely selfish build, atm. I provide little heals with him. You're honestly better off getting advice for a Warden tank/healer hybrid from someone else. I can't bring myself to mix Green & Winter's skills together, so I'm not an effective hybrid there. :P

Disclaimer: I'm a mediocre-tier player. I don't make the strongest, smartest, or probably in-any-way best builds. I go for themes I like, and something that seems like it'll be fun and effective enough. There are undoubtedly questionable decisions in all of my builds. Feel free to call me out; I'm always happy to discuss or find ways to improve! A lot of the choices I make are to suit my own preferences, and not based on optimal performance.

That said, here's an example Templar Healer/Tank build that I've had good success (and fun) with: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=93596

With the above setup, all buffed up and sitting in your Focus, you're tough as nails. You have easy access to brief windows of Major & Minor Protection (at once!), on top of max resistances. Plus Minor Mending at all times. And you're providing pretty good damage boosts and resistance buffs to allies too... If they're positioned "correctly", anyway. If they're stacked behind the boss, things generally go well. They get Minor Ward/Resolve & Minor Berserk from Combat Prayer, plus Lord Warden buffs, plus Major Courage from SPC, and a constant stream of Shard/Orbs synergies. And of course there's the Minor Maim from Heroic Slash -- this alone saves a LOT of lives, when tanks bother to keep it up.

BUT, you can't afford to be careless with your Stamina. That's the main drawback of that build, for me. You don't have much to begin with, and blocking is expensive since the only reduction we have is the 1H&S passive and the CP node. Only block when necessary. Heavy attack when appropriate. Use your stamina skills wisely. I rather enjoy the scarcity of resources (on this setup, anyway), but if you don't you can always take points out of Magicka and put them in Stam instead. Or change your Mundus. Or go Sturdy where I went Divines. Or a half-dozen other things. There's a fair bit of flexibility in the above build. Basically shift yourself from a tanky Healer more toward a Tank that heals, as you see fit. Think of it like a spectrum, and find where you're comfortable.

You're running Infused Crusher, but keeping high uptimes is harder than on other (damage-leaning, instead of healing-leaning) builds. You have to swing at the boss a lot, since you don't have something like Blockade of Elements doing it for you on the back bar. But you have Minor Breach & Fracture from Power of the Light, so that helps close the gap some. Weakening enchant is on the back bar, for when you know people are about to take heavy damage. Not sure how much hurt this really shaves off boss attacks; you could swap for a Stam/Mag absorb glyph if you wanted.

With all those skills to maintain, it's hard (for me) to imagine you'd have time to get bored in boss fights. And during mob pulls, you're busy keeping everyone alive, taunting the heavy hitters, and Leashing in the outliers. You don't have a root skill, unfortunately.

I spent a little extra time unlocking a bunch of alternate / situational skills, too. And relevant passives to how I play. You need almost 200 skill points to get all I got in there. The linked build is basically exactly what my Imperial Templar is doing most often, except that I switch out different sets & skills for different content. Here's the other sets I carry on me:

Warrior-Poet (for when Ebon isn't necessary/useful)
Kagrenac's Hope (for when more healing/reviving is needed; PvP mostly)
Impregnable (for avoiding unwanted pregnancies)
Transmutation (for keeping allies vertical in PvP)
Sanctuary (for when my healing needs to be stronger)

And a few sets I'm still (slowly) collecting pieces for, but haven't tried out yet:

Cyrodiil's Crest
Almalexia's Mercy
Bastion of the Heartland
Battalion Defender (UESP doesn't have this one yet, as it's new. It heals nearby allies when you block, often.)

The overall theme is healing, support, and toughness. It's how I think of Templar tanking, and I rather enjoy it. I may lack some of the support other builds have, but I open up the group to run 3 damage dealers (in 4 man content) without as much of the risk as a tanky-tank with no healer in the group would. And in <4 man stuff (mainly open world pvp, as I don't tank/heal trials much at all these days), I'm taking pressure off less experienced healers while still doing my tank thang. I've run as healer with the above setup, too. It worked. Weaker heals than a better healer would provide, but with me in Ebon the Tank ran (I believe) Torug's and Alkosh, and we absolutely wrecked a lot of content. Was a lot of fun, and a bit of a change of pace. Lots of confused randoms were asking who was tank, and who was healer :P (Just remember to take Pierce Armor off your bar!)

Sorry for the ridiculously long post. Hope it helps someone! I think I spent more words than the rest of this whole thread combined! lol


Edited to add links for item sets.

GreenHere

Psyonico wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

I'm currently rather enjoying my magSorc tank. Great survivability, and more damage than a lot of PuGs have (~20K). And no, it's not just a dps leaning heavily on shields; I've got max resists, 30k health, and the usual tank skills slotted (Pierce, Slash, Leash).

Other than 30k health not being that high on a tank, I'd love to see your build, as I'm working on a magSorc tank myself right now.

Similar to what I said above, in my Templar tank post, I'm not the best one to go by. I do what suits a theme I have in mind, and what seems like it might be fun. But, since I have been enjoying and performing okay (in what content I've run; mostly dungeons and BGs) in this setup, here ya go @Psyonico : https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=93620

Definitely not the strongest build around, I know; but I wanted to make use of a second Sorc I created for trying out pet builds. Then I discovered that I hate combat pets in this game, so he sat unused for a looong time. I'm getting him back in the action with the linked build, and have been having pretty good fun. It's selfish and not optimized for much, but for getting through dungeons with less-than-stellar PuGs it's proven to be a very handy setup so far. And it sticks with the mechanical/electric theme I was aiming for pretty well. I'm thinking of trading Livewire out for Mechanical Acuity, since I can craft all pieces finally. Just haven't gotten onto the PTS to try it out yet.

The most important part of the build, which can't be shown in the UESP editor, is probably the style. You gotta either have the Factotum polymorph, or use Apostle & Trinimac armor mixed to get the badass robot look! ;D

Joxer61

delete

arun_rajputb16_ESO

Joxer61 wrote: »

delete

Why, troll, why? If you disagree, the mature and best thing to do is either constructively criticise or just ignore. Like most other people here.

"Delete" - brilliant. Thanks. For. That.