CP stars without misleading numbers (jump points)

Benemime · October 2018

A lot of players knows about the jump points on CP stars that are % based. But I think the majority of players doesn't know about it. I played for a long time until I casually found out.

The image above shows the jump points, that means when you invest points on a star, it doesn't matter if it says it's giving 16.25% or 16.73%: the actual increase is by 16%, it will only increase more when the tooltip reachs 17%, and so on.

After that I learned about jump points, I was still making mistakes, my Thaumaturge had 51 points invested, the tooltip said that it would increase the Dot dmg by 19%, but it doesn't, the tooltip is misleading, because that 19% is actually 18,9955% or something. So it will only count as 19% when you invest 52 points on that star. I was playing for months with 18% because I believed in that tooltip. This system is awful for players that likely won't find out how CP works with jump points.

so, while I was bored at work, I made something to reflect a more intuitive and honest interface for CP.

What you guys think? Now there's a bar showing the progress to reach the next jump point, and no more decimal numbers. When you are about to reach the next jump point, it could appear an icon at the side of the circle, at top-right, like an arrow or something.

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

I'd support this change. Why is transparency such an issue in this game?

therift · October 2018

Like you, the fact that CP increases are truncated down to the nearest integer escaped my attention for months. The truncation is completely hidden from players.

Your solution is simple, elegant, and intuitive. Well done!

Wifeaggro13 · October 2018

The cp system needs a complete overhaul. It was a very one dimensional approach to alternate advancement. I think the theory was it would be an easy way to string out character development with out having to actually create new levels, abilities or emergent game systems. Truthfully it's a sham of a system they should remove it, or expand on it other then keep adding passive resistances and bonuses. To me it reeks of let's milk this game for as long as we can while we copy and paste our way to our next game

Red_Feather · October 2018

I like your design as it accurately conveys to the user the actual mechanic that is being used.

Latios · October 2018

What? I never knew about that. Thanks for the very useful post!
*Rushes to fix CP*

Kanar · October 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

The cp system needs a complete overhaul. It was a very one dimensional approach to alternate advancement. I think the theory was it would be an easy way to string out character development with out having to actually create new levels, abilities or emergent game systems. Truthfully it's a sham of a system they should remove it, or expand on it other then keep adding passive resistances and bonuses. To me it reeks of let's milk this game for as long as we can while we copy and paste our way to our next game

CP system is far better than new levels; it replaced a leveling system known as VR. People didn't like VR because it was just more levels, they had to do them on all chars, and each VR increase made all gear obsolete. IMO only last one is a valid complaint. Zos does extend the game by adding new abilities, have you tried Summerset? There's nothing wrong with CP as long as gear cap stays 160cp. They could add to it with more trees, stars and perks though.

Emergent game systems: I have not seen a more cringeworthy buzzword recently. What does it mean and can you give me some examples?

code65536 · October 2018

So... the ironic thing is, originally, only two CP stars had jump points (Elfborn and Piercing). All the other CP stars gave their advertised value.

The CP overhaul during the Morrowind patch is what added jump points to virtually all of stars. But the irony is that Morrowind is also the patch where they increased the display to two decimal places. Prior to Morrowind, it would show only one digit after the decimal.

That is the part that baffles me the most--that we go from showing 1 to 2 digits after the decimal in the same patch where the digits after the decimal become irrelevant.

Starlock · October 2018

This would be great. Lack of transparency in the combat metrics is something that has always bothered me about this game, and CP has often been among the worst offenders.

spartaxoxo · October 2018

I did not even know about Thur actually saying 19 when it is 18, that's messed up. I greatly prefer your UI design

Hurtfan · October 2018

Benemime wrote: »

A lot of players knows about the jump points on CP stars that are % based. But I think the majority of players doesn't know about it. I played for a long time until I casually found out.

The image above shows the jump points, that means when you invest points on a star, it doesn't matter if it says it's giving 16.25% or 16.73%: the actual increase is by 16%, it will only increase more when the tooltip reachs 17%, and so on.

After that I learned about jump points, I was still making mistakes, my Thaumaturge had 51 points invested, the tooltip said that it would increase the Dot dmg by 19%, but it doesn't, the tooltip is misleading, because that 19% is actually 18,9955% or something. So it will only count as 19% when you invest 52 points on that star. I was playing for months with 18% because I believed in that tooltip. This system is awful for players that likely won't find out how CP works with jump points.

so, while I was bored at work, I made something to reflect a more intuitive and honest interface for CP.

What you guys think? Now there's a bar showing the progress to reach the next jump point, and no more decimal numbers. When you are about to reach the next jump point, it could appear an icon at the side of the circle, at top-right, like an arrow or something.

Well done, I like this. I knew about the rounding down but not about this "because that 19% is actually 18,9955%".

Have an awesome

Taleof2Cities · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'd support this change. Why is transparency such an issue in this game?

You get an awesome sir (or madam)!

Bouldercleave · October 2018

Thanks for the info!

Not to nit pick, but your entire 35% table is backwards. My OCD is triggered....

Great info though!

Grymmoire · October 2018

I for one, wholeheartedly support your suggestion OP, but doubt any implementation nor response as evidenced from the lack of developer input in my February discussion:

* Edited for spelling error

Morgul667 · October 2018

That would be a great addition and simple to implement

Solariken · October 2018

Very good idea for improvement. But there is an old and wise phrase, "you can't polish a turd"

Because that's what the entire champion system is... A turd.

MisterBigglesworth · October 2018

Or just simply always round down the displayed number after the second digit

Hence 18.9955% would display as "18.99%"

This can be done with basic math on the backend and doesn't require development of any new UI elements.

Jameliel · October 2018

Thanks for this post, I'm wasting quite a few points on all my toons. GET YOUR SH** TOGETHER z0$!

Sondernaam · October 2018

I've been playing since Morrowind, but have absolutely no clue as to how the CP system work and where and why to invest the points into that specific thing. There is a lot of online guides that I use, but as to why I am investing points where they say I should, I haven't got a clue

Gatviper · October 2018

Very useful image, coming from here:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-championpoints-jumppoints/
I've been using it for some time myself, no thanks to any intuitive tooltips within ESO to actually understand the overly complicated CP system. It might look simple, but doesn't really produce the results it shows, so you've got to investigate on other sites.
Ironically, the goal I think was to make it as casual and simple for everyone as possible, and in turn it became too complicated for most to grasp easily.

Elsonso · October 2018

For PC, is this panel able to be changed by add-ons? I never bothered to look.

Add-ons are pretty much the only place such QoL stuff comes from, on a reliable basis.

Skayaq · October 2018

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Thanks for the info!

Not to nit pick, but your entire 35% table is backwards. My OCD is triggered....

Great info though!

I'm glad I'm not the only one bothered by that.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · October 2018

How is this still NOT A FRIGGING SCANDAL, I have no idea.

HEY ZOS! HOW BOUT YOU SKIP THAT VERY NEXT CROWNSTORE ITEM AND SORT THIS [removed profanity] OUT BEFORE YOU GET BACK TO THAT??!!!

Cryptical · October 2018

Benemime wrote: »

A lot of players knows about the jump points on CP stars that are % based. But I think the majority of players doesn't know about it. I played for a long time until I casually found out.

Now work up the sequence of increases.

For 15%, the incremental costs to get to the next buff point are
4,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,8,11,25

Hit up google graph and make a line of those numbers, and you’ll visually see it get steep. You don’t want to pay to climb that steep hill, so you should stop at either paying in 49 points or 56 points - but definitely no further than that.

I see alcast say to put 100 points into things in his builds, and that was the moment I knew he didn’t really put much thought into that Champ point allocation. Just dropping from a 15% buff to a 14% buff frees up 25 champ points that can be put to much bigger impact in a neglected star.

The other two scales also have that steep climb starting around the 50 to 60ish champ point spot.

RedRook · October 2018

@Sondernaam wrote: »

I've been playing since Morrowind, but have absolutely no clue as to how the CP system work and where and why to invest the points into that specific thing. There is a lot of online guides that I use, but as to why I am investing points where they say I should, I haven't got a clue

Gilliam the Rogue's stuff on YouTube explains a lot of the whys and various mathematics, if you're interested.

Skullstachio · October 2018

Good info, in truth I may have suspected something like this, that is why I settle for 20.15% in thaumaturge and other similar CP skills like master-at-arms.

Marabornwingrion · October 2018

Jump points should NOT exist at all @ZOS_Wrobel .
If you're gonna keep them, at least give clear informations in game to new players how they work.

Benemime · October 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

A lot of players knows about the jump points on CP stars that are % based. But I think the majority of players doesn't know about it. I played for a long time until I casually found out.

Now work up the sequence of increases.

For 15%, the incremental costs to get to the next buff point are
4,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,8,11,25

Hit up google graph and make a line of those numbers, and you’ll visually see it get steep. You don’t want to pay to climb that steep hill, so you should stop at either paying in 49 points or 56 points - but definitely no further than that.

I see alcast say to put 100 points into things in his builds, and that was the moment I knew he didn’t really put much thought into that Champ point allocation. Just dropping from a 15% buff to a 14% buff frees up 25 champ points that can be put to much bigger impact in a neglected star.

The other two scales also have that steep climb starting around the 50 to 60ish champ point spot.

I cringe everytime I see someone praising alcast like if he was all that.

But I have to disagree with one thing here.

from 49 to 56 points allocated at elemental expert, you will increase 1% by spending 7 points. When you reach 40 at master-at-arms and 40 at thaumaturge, to increase 1% for either you will spend 4 points on each (to reach the next jump point, 44), so, to increase the dmg of every ability+LA+HA (if your build has direct dmg abilities and Dots), you will spend 8 points, while elemental expert does the same thing with only 7 points. So 56 is still better at some point (depending on your build). Then the next jump point for elemental expert is 64, that uses 8 points to reach. The same amount of points of 40->44 for both thaumaturge and master-at-arms. So elemental expert at 64 is a tie with thaumaturge and master at arms (40->44). After that, thaumaturge and master at arms are much better than elemental expert.

Benemime · October 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

Jump points should NOT exist at all @ZOS_Wrobel .
If you're gonna keep them, at least give clear informations in game to new players how they work.

I actually like jump points because I feel like I can manage my CP tree better lol

Benemime · October 2018

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

How is this still NOT A FRIGGING SCANDAL, I have no idea.

HEY ZOS! HOW BOUT YOU SKIP THAT VERY NEXT CROWNSTORE ITEM AND SORT THIS SCHITT OUT BEFORE YOU GET BACK TO THAT??!!!

do you wanna see a scandal worse than jump points?

"Make sure you put your points into Elemental Defender and Hardy FIRST, committing them before placing any in Ironclad/Thick Skinned (there is currently a bug where if you do not do this, you will get less mitigation than intended)."

http://deltiasgaming.com/eso-magic-dragonknight-dps-build-2/#end

original thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/347576/selective-noncommutivity-of-warrior-cp/p1

I don't think that was fixed, this is even shadier than jump points. lol

.

Beardimus · October 2018

@Benemime I was about to say the last part of the saga most don't know is the noncommutivity of warrior classic!