My Friend Quit

tinythinker · October 2018

The observations made about the (console) trials community in this thread and the helpful, constructive responses offered once again remind us why ESO is the most generous, kind, and friendly MMO communities out there.

Thanks all!

And don't forget to share your own great experiences on social media and register for the new community sweepstakes here: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/ourelderscrolls

olsborg · October 2018

The reason I dont like pve, specially high end pve, is because its a tedios and repetetive circle of boredom, rince and repeat kinda experience. Just not fun in any way. IMO. PvP on the other hand is quite fun, when its not lagging.

moonio · October 2018

I think they are all playing on PC..
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/ourelderscrolls

https://youtu.be/EpIdPzZhdr0

Meld777 · October 2018

I haven't read the whole thread, so I apologize if someone asked this already, but...

@kylewwefan why did you and your friend not create a guild or gathered a group yourself? With so many players in ESO, it's not that hard to find 10 other, like-minded people. Then you could've created the kind of atmosphere you'd enjoy.

kylewwefan · October 2018

Were in some. Probably like everyone out there getting their feet wet in trials. After the 99th time doing HelRa or AA you want to try the other trials You find out very quickly, they’re not social friendly. I write them off as trash, some accept the challenge. Turn it into their life’s mission. Finally get it done and realize it was with the wrong people. Not their friends. Not people they enjoy playing with. The victories are bittersweet.

tmbrinks · October 2018

Some of my best friends in the game have come from trials groups, including one that was toxic, enough to the point that over time we left, and after a while, formed back up with a group, that is about as far from toxic as can be. Do we demand high performance out of all of our roles, yes, you MUST have top-tier dps/heals/tanking if you want to push scores in vCR +3 and vAS +2, etc... you can't be pulling 15k, 20k, 30k (or even 40k on magblade) and expect to be able to do that, if you are, you are just being carried. Does being good at mechanics help, yes, but you need to do both.

We work with each other when somebody is struggling, trying to find out the cause, what is happening that they are dying to, why aren't they doing as much dps.

End-game raiding requires a certain mindset, that can lend itself to toxic behavior, if not handled correctly. You have to be self-motivated to do better, and if you're not, it's not the environment for you.

There are dozen (if not hundreds) of guilds that can clear vAAHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vMoL, vHoFHM, vAS +1, and vCR +1. vMoLHM, vAS +2, vCR +2/+3 you need a group of players that knows mechanics, AND can do significant dps.

There are too many "newer" players who haven't seen the time, effort, hard-work, theorycrafting, dummy parsing, group synergy that has happened for groups to clear end-game content. It doesn't just "happen", and too many seem to think that you can just jump into that environment and be successful without the work that it takes (are there exceptions?, of course)

Trinity_Is_My_Name · October 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

Maybe he’ll come back, but taking a hiatus for awhile. I’m sad but not surprised. He joined a high end Trials guild and it just sucked the fun right out of the game.

I joined too. Did one run with them and knew I couldn’t be around that. So I left. Wish he would have too.

But, they’re doing stuff he wanted to do in the game, so he put up with it. I’m sure they wanted him too because he was a DPS Monster.

These are the kind of players you have to align yourself with to do ESO endgame PVE. Sucks.

Try to be a little more excellent to one and other.

Yes, agree. Trials groups/guilds can get stressful. Have to be careful with the group you get with and find one that aligns to the amount of time you feel is adequate to put into Trial runs. Some guilds just do Normal Trials with the occasional Vet run and don't sweat it when they cannot beat it. Just for fun runs with a bunch of guildies. Sorry to hear about your friend.

Vahrokh · October 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

Maybe he’ll come back, but taking a hiatus for awhile. I’m sad but not surprised. He joined a high end Trials guild and it just sucked the fun right out of the game.

I joined too. Did one run with them and knew I couldn’t be around that. So I left. Wish he would have too.

But, they’re doing stuff he wanted to do in the game, so he put up with it. I’m sure they wanted him too because he was a DPS Monster.

These are the kind of players you have to align yourself with to do ESO endgame PVE. Sucks.

Try to be a little more excellent to one and other.

The funny thing is, I actually do good in these toxic environments, but people don't want magsorcs in those guilds any more.

Worse thing, I joined (at the same time!) 3 less hard core guilds and about 2 weeks ago they had lost 1/3+ of their players because of Nerfmire ugly barrage of nerfs.

End result: now if I am lucky if I can join one stupid vHRC run a week any more. Trials have stopped in the other 2 guilds completely and they are slowly disbanding.

Thank you ZOS!

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:

Sharks (who will eat you)
Snakes (who stab you in the back)
Weasels (who take credit for your work)
Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)
Eagles (who are better than everyone)
Deer (who have no clue)
Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

Tucker3711 · October 2018

:'(

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

@rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The problem with "hard mode and current content raiding" is that it's not so easy to take it easy.

As a former Wow raid lead I tried to keep things light, but at a certain point you realize that either someone is going to change what they are doing or get changed for someone else. There is no nice way to do it, not really.

At a certain point, all these games try to turn things hardcore. Encounters that requires exacting dps, exacting positioning and little room for error do not make for a fun game. As such, people that choose to do them become a bit aggressive regarding the encounter (and performance in them) or regarding personnel.

Toxicity in high end performance driven guilds is usually high and always has been (over many many a game).

World firsts and "records" seem to be what the developers push as the actual endgame. It's a short sighted approach and likely the opposite of what they are trying to achieve. The key thing is always fun for the most players, it's a game... those that treat it like more than a game should never be catered to, they should be driven from it, mostly because they never help the game and only hurt it.

I had more fun on bsing Karazhan runs (where if you didn't have the right make up for certain bosses, you could choose to just not do them... no big thing) than competitive server first raiding.

The point, is that nothing you achieve in a game means anything past it being a game. Once it moves past being fun and into a new darker territory it's not worth your time (it's actually the detriment to your time and life). The people pushing for server firsts and records have fun at the expense of others, that's their only joy... because playing a game like they do isn't fun, only achieving over others is fun.

The litmus test is always "am I having fun" and that's it. If you aren't, don't do it. If you are, keep at it. There's no inbetween.

I can agree on that, because I have fun working out what I need to do to Improve my character to be able to do all sorts of things, eventually I may be able to do trials and other content within the eso universe, and when I am not, I just grab a nice mug of the finest Nordic mead and chill in a tavern or that nice orcish bath house in wrothgar as I contemplate my next move.

One thing that ESO does have is more content than can be completed in a week by a normal person.

mb10 wrote: »

Latios wrote: »

I haven't been in high end guilds for a long time now. Don't want to deal with those big egos anymore.

Lmfao big ESO egos?
They're not even streamers, ESO isn't even a game like Fortnite where there's competitive money (in the millions) involved.

You haven't been around the "high end" raiders on NA PC. There is a leaderboard, that alone is enough to feed some egos.

tmbrinks · October 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:
Sharks (who will eat you)

Snakes (who stab you in the back)

Weasels (who take credit for your work)

Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)

Eagles (who are better than everyone)

Deer (who have no clue)

Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

That's pretty pessimistic. Where's your animal for the person who are excellent at what they do, encourage their team members, don't steal credit, don't stab you in the back.

The people you have listed aren't in high-end trial groups. They get kicked for being toxic, lying, cocky, having no clue.

I feel like most of the posts about the high-end raiding community are from people who have never been in a score pushing guild, or came on one run, realized they were WAY over their head (they were a deer, in this metaphor), and are still bitter about it later.

VirtualElizabeth · October 2018

I tried 2 different trial guilds - I found them both to be too serious and too drama laden to really be enjoyable. I have officially retired in attempting vet level trials. PVP is much more relaxing anyway LOL>

PouletRico · October 2018

I think it's the case when you're new on a guild. At first, people will tell you what to do, and it's normal. After few runs they'll know you and everything will start to be mode chill/relax, but at first, they need to make sure you the type of player they want to have in their guild, that's all.

As an ex raid leader on GW, I got to say that integrating new players into a roster is one of the most difficult thing.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:
Sharks (who will eat you)

Snakes (who stab you in the back)

Weasels (who take credit for your work)

Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)

Eagles (who are better than everyone)

Deer (who have no clue)

Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

That's pretty pessimistic. Where's your animal for the person who are excellent at what they do, encourage their team members, don't steal credit, don't stab you in the back.

Unicorn

Reistr_the_Unbroken · October 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:
Sharks (who will eat you)

Snakes (who stab you in the back)

Weasels (who take credit for your work)

Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)

Eagles (who are better than everyone)

Deer (who have no clue)

Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

That's pretty pessimistic. Where's your animal for the person who are excellent at what they do, encourage their team members, don't steal credit, don't stab you in the back.

The people you have listed aren't in high-end trial groups. They get kicked for being toxic, lying, cocky, having no clue.

I feel like most of the posts about the high-end raiding community are from people who have never been in a score pushing guild, or came on one run, realized they were WAY over their head (they were a deer, in this metaphor), and are still bitter about it later.

Unicorn

^ignorant

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:
Sharks (who will eat you)

Snakes (who stab you in the back)

Weasels (who take credit for your work)

Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)

Eagles (who are better than everyone)

Deer (who have no clue)

Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

That's pretty pessimistic. Where's your animal for the person who are excellent at what they do, encourage their team members, don't steal credit, don't stab you in the back.

The people you have listed aren't in high-end trial groups. They get kicked for being toxic, lying, cocky, having no clue.

I feel like most of the posts about the high-end raiding community are from people who have never been in a score pushing guild, or came on one run, realized they were WAY over their head (they were a deer, in this metaphor), and are still bitter about it later.

Unicorn

^ignorant

^ Deer

SteveCampsOut · October 2018

idk wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

These are the kind of players you have to align yourself with to do ESO endgame PVE. Sucks.

I hope your friend comes back eventually. However, it was not someone elses fault. He made his choices and they did not suit what he really wanted, or it was a last ditch effort to get some enjoyment out of the game. People burn out.

It was not likely the fault of other players. Heck, some of the most helpful players in the game are amongst the best raiders in the game.

It may not have been their "Fault" per se, but toxic players like that are one of the main contributing factors for people leaving any game. Nobody likes stress or hostile environments.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · October 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:
Sharks (who will eat you)

Snakes (who stab you in the back)

Weasels (who take credit for your work)

Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)

Eagles (who are better than everyone)

Deer (who have no clue)

Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

That's pretty pessimistic. Where's your animal for the person who are excellent at what they do, encourage their team members, don't steal credit, don't stab you in the back.

The people you have listed aren't in high-end trial groups. They get kicked for being toxic, lying, cocky, having no clue.

I feel like most of the posts about the high-end raiding community are from people who have never been in a score pushing guild, or came on one run, realized they were WAY over their head (they were a deer, in this metaphor), and are still bitter about it later.

Unicorn

^ignorant

^ Deer

Keep saying that to yourself. Jokes on you btw, I don’t do trials or dungeons because I have my own fun on the overworld or in Coldharbour.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Keep saying that to yourself. Jokes on you btw, I don’t do trials or dungeons because I have my own fun on the overworld or in Coldharbour.

Fantastic.

kathandira · October 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

Maybe he’ll come back, but taking a hiatus for awhile. I’m sad but not surprised. He joined a high end Trials guild and it just sucked the fun right out of the game.

I joined too. Did one run with them and knew I couldn’t be around that. So I left. Wish he would have too.

But, they’re doing stuff he wanted to do in the game, so he put up with it. I’m sure they wanted him too because he was a DPS Monster.

These are the kind of players you have to align yourself with to do ESO endgame PVE. Sucks.

Try to be a little more excellent to one and other.

Should had just looked for a different guild who does the things he likes, but has a better time doing it.

For example, our guild does Trials on Saturday nights, and now on Tuesday nights. We keep it short, maybe an hour or so. And the entire time, we are joking and having a good time. All light and airy too, just good wholesome fun.

The key to enjoying an MMO, if you are going to be focusing on playing in groups, is to find the guild that suits your personality and interests. If you don't, you're simply not going to have a good time.

killahsin · October 2018

anyone who quit over the so called nerfmire patch is pretty sad tbh lmao.

kathandira · October 2018

ValorieW wrote: »

Not all trials guilds are like that. I’m on PS4 na and have been lucky enough to find several that are really chill, but still perform in higher level content. Keep shopping guilds. It takes a while but you can find the good ones. Incidentally, if anyone needs and invite to one let me know.

I agree with you. Thought there is one thing to note about the difference between PC and Console. Since we lack the tools to really dig into our metrics, and also are missing the tools to have a keen eye on timers for abilities that aren't noted on our buff bar, we have to be a bit more lenient when it comes to DPS numbers.

spartaxoxo · October 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Do you think it would be better if their was a trials group finder? Do you think it's the people or design of trials?

P.S sorry that hear they left. I hope they return one day.

It is the design. If you make content you only expect the same couple of guilds to complete, they will have absolute authority and power over entire servers. This often makes that power go to people's heads, it is human nature.

If you have something that has a completetion ratio of less than 10% even months or years after the content has been released, then the content is too punishing. And it is going to empower some very toxic behavior for the 1% of people who can not only do that content, but get others to complete it.

Giving out leaderboard rewards for completing it faster than anyone else is more than enough compensation for being the best, completion of all that content should be obtainable by at least the top quarter of the playerbase so that you don't have to put up with mistreatment to even get a clear.

Game design absolutely can and does change how people interact with one another.

spartaxoxo · October 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

As I expected, most of the comments here are like: "yeah, that's why I do RP/housing, because raiding guilds are so toxic!!!!111oneone"

The truth is, not really.

People like above are just too sensitive to play MMO. They don't accept any critique or advice from other players regarding their gameplay. Someone will tell them nicely: "try to improve your dps" and they will get immediately sad or angry, and then they run to the forums to complain how badly they were treated by these end game players.

I play this game for over 2 years, and I'm doing end game PvE content all the time. I played with many groups and guilds during that time and I never been a victim of toxic behavior about the way I play.

My advice? Relax and listen to others. Don't be so sensitive. Not every person who says something about your performance in PvE is toxic and tries to make you feel bad. And some people just try to show you the right direction, even if they do it in not really good way.

Telling people not to be sensitive shows that the things people are saying is how it goes, and that it personally just does not bother you. I mean in this thread you modified someone else's quote by adding "1111" just to mock it and make it sound dumb, and on top of that singled them out in a public crowd for this criticism. You did exactly the kind of thing they were criticizing to prove that it doesn't happen.

Improve your dps is not a meaningful comment, it is destructive criticism and it's going to bother people because you were being insulting. Otoh, giving actually useful and specific tips, at a time when someone isn't already burned out and stressed, makes a massive difference and is constructive criticism. But many trials guilds are not capable of this basic level of empathy or understanding the difference. They make no effort in ensuring their criticism isn't destructive and then claim anyone who is insulted by their insulting behavior is just too sensitive.

spartaxoxo · October 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jimmy wrote: »

The PS4 community is the absolute definition of toxic. Never again will I be anywhere close to those people.

My end game trial and PvP raiding groups on PC are just amazing. I love those guys.

It’s bad. Worse than I imagined to be honest.

Probably because it is even harder to self identify mistakes through the use of add-ons. It means more wipes and that lack of prior experience is even worse.

tmbrinks · October 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:
Sharks (who will eat you)

Snakes (who stab you in the back)

Weasels (who take credit for your work)

Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)

Eagles (who are better than everyone)

Deer (who have no clue)

Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

That's pretty pessimistic. Where's your animal for the person who are excellent at what they do, encourage their team members, don't steal credit, don't stab you in the back.

Unicorn

Well, then I guess about 95% of the raiding community that I've run into are Unicorns... thought they were supposed to be rare and unique

Troneon · October 2018

There is a serious lack of progression Trial guilds in the game and ZOS went crazy on the 1000 mechanics and one shots in every Trials boss fight where healers can't do jack and tanks can still get one shot without BIS builds and then your dps must hit certain triggers or wipe etc etc that it puts 99% off from even trying vet trials. A couple of players with low dps/bad rotation or players with wrong gear and/or not bis items...whole group suffers and unable to complete content. This BREEDS elitism in some groups and in very rare groups actually breeds helpfulness from others in teaching newer trial players, very rare to find in ESO <----.

Personally I like all content but when 99% of your player base won't even bother with a certain type of content at that point you did something wrong and it just wasted content. Also the time it takes just to get a group together if not in a Vet Trials Guild or know loads of decent players in the game who can do the content well, another reason why most people won't even attempt or waste the time and then spend hours failing at the Trial.

ZOS have done very little to help with these issues and in some cases, made the gap even larger or worse. At the moment the gap from 99% to the 1% of players attempting vet trials is massive and ZOS should change that and help get more progression Vet Trial Guilds in to the game and give the players the tools to get groups more easily.

Danksta · October 2018

.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Yeah, many competitive PvE guilds have a really crappy toxic jargon, people hysterically screaming and insulting left and right, when someone messes up.

absolutely wrong.
Competetive PvE guilds dont mess up and if they do whatever, just reset the trial and go again.
There is no personal attacking in top-tier PvE guilds, only constructive Criticism and if that offends you, dont even bother getting into such environment.

"You F'ing useless waste of space are you F'ing blind" really sounds like constructive criticism

Not all raid groups are like this but I've seen/heard my fair few when joining to help out if someone needed another member.

from what ive seen in this topic so far all the toxicity complaints are comming from console, i just wonder why.

if anyone ever attacked anyone of my raidteam more than once, instant guildkick.

Proof that all of them came from consoles?

Just look through the thread, everyone that is mentioning some kind of genuine toxicity either put their platform in the post or its in their signature. And most that ive seen that it affected is Console and im not saying PC > CONSOLE SUCK IT, im actually curious why people on console would tend to be more toxic than PC Endgame Community.

It may be more toxic, I'd actually be willing to bet it is but it's not as bad as a lot of the people here make it out to be. I'm guessing most of these people had a bad experience with a guild or two and are judging the whole end game community on those bad experiences. Pretty funny actually, I find that behavior toxic.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Let's compare the personas in high-end, "elitist" trial groups to the animals you might find in the corporate world:
Sharks (who will eat you)

Snakes (who stab you in the back)

Weasels (who take credit for your work)

Lemmings (who do what everyone else is doing)

Eagles (who are better than everyone)

Deer (who have no clue)

Mules (who carry the load)

Take a moment to identify your role in the "team".

P.S. Feel free to add other personas to the list.

That's pretty pessimistic. Where's your animal for the person who are excellent at what they do, encourage their team members, don't steal credit, don't stab you in the back.

Unicorn

Well, then I guess about 95% of the raiding community that I've run into are Unicorns... thought they were supposed to be rare and unique

Glad to hear it.