Has anyone tested the new roll dodge mechanic?

hero2zer0 · October 2018

Projectiles can now only be evaded if the Roll Dodge occurs within one second prior to their impact.

This seems like a very drastic change, as previously you could just roll a short time before being hit, and avoid projectiles, now you will need to predict when about to get sniped/fragged etc?
I haven’t gotten on pts to test this, but it looks like this mechanic will either be spammed, or not used at all.

Sharee · October 2018

I'm not sure if this will have a huge impact, but i'd say no. This change should only be noticeable for projectiles, and only those that have longer than one-second flight time. Which basically means, very long range snipes. Even frags are usually fired at shorter ranges (which means sub-1s flight time). We'll see.

coplannb16_ESO · October 2018

I wonder how lag will effect this. is the 1 second client side or server side? dunno, but I think, with the state of ESOs performance, that this will be a nightmare.

Derra · October 2018

All it really changes is basically that projectiles fired from high ranges are no longer automatically dodged even if the dodgeroll ended or if a projectile was fired at the end of a dodgeroll.

hero2zer0 · October 2018

Derra wrote: »

All it really changes is basically that projectiles fired from high ranges are no longer automatically dodged even if the dodgeroll ended or if a projectile was fired at the end of a dodgeroll.

So with murkmire, if I roll after a projectile has been fired, but before it hits, will it be dodged as it is now?

Feanor · October 2018

hero2zer0 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

All it really changes is basically that projectiles fired from high ranges are no longer automatically dodged even if the dodgeroll ended or if a projectile was fired at the end of a dodgeroll.

So with murkmire, if I roll after a projectile has been fired, but before it hits, will it be dodged as it is now?

If you time your roll correctly, then yes.

hero2zer0 · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

hero2zer0 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

All it really changes is basically that projectiles fired from high ranges are no longer automatically dodged even if the dodgeroll ended or if a projectile was fired at the end of a dodgeroll.

So with murkmire, if I roll after a projectile has been fired, but before it hits, will it be dodged as it is now?

If you time your roll correctly, then yes.

I am pretty bad, how do Itime it correctly then?

Feanor · October 2018

hero2zer0 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

hero2zer0 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

All it really changes is basically that projectiles fired from high ranges are no longer automatically dodged even if the dodgeroll ended or if a projectile was fired at the end of a dodgeroll.

So with murkmire, if I roll after a projectile has been fired, but before it hits, will it be dodged as it is now?

If you time your roll correctly, then yes.

I am pretty bad, how do Itime it correctly then?

Well - you see the projectile and roll just before it hits. As has been pointed out, that’s only a change for projectiles with a longer travel time (and the change does make sense, it’s a bit odd you could dodge a projectile although your roll already has completed).

hero2zer0 · October 2018

So de facto this change just shortens the dodge window after rolling? Sounds okay I guess...certainly better than it not being not useable it all!

Sharee · October 2018

Derra wrote: »

All it really changes is basically that projectiles fired from high ranges are no longer automatically dodged even if the dodgeroll ended or if a projectile was fired at the end of a dodgeroll.

This is an interesting point.

Let's say a dodge roll takes one second to perform (from the point one pushes the roll button to the point when the roll animation finishes).

Let's say an attacker fires frag at a point when there is still 0.5 seconds remaining on the roll animation. The frag takes 0.6 seconds to reach the target, making contact 0.1 seconds after the roll completed.

Will the frag hit, or be dodged?

I'd say the answer depends on the interpretation of the wording "Roll dodge occurs" used in the patch note.

If we assume it means "when the roll button was pressed", then the frag will hit, because the impact happens 1.1 seconds after the roll button was pressed.

But if we assume it means "while dodge is in progress", then the frag will miss, because the impact happened 0.1 seconds after roll dodge completed (the activity of roll dodging still "occured" one second prior to the impact).

Curious curious

susmitds · October 2018

According to my tests, anything (both melee and ranged) hits if timed at the tail end of animation. The lingering dodge bonus is removed. Also, now there is a very small but substantial window of vulnerability between dodges, i.e. 100% I-Frames no longer guaranteed by spamming dodge.

Sharee · October 2018

susmitds wrote: »

According to my tests, anything (both melee and ranged) hits if timed at the tail end of animation. The lingering dodge bonus is removed. Also, now there is a very small but substantial window of vulnerability between dodges, i.e. 100% I-Frames no longer guaranteed by spamming dodge.

That settles it then - "roll dodge occurs" means "when roll dodge button was pressed", not "while roll animation is happening".

SodanTok · October 2018

susmitds wrote: »

According to my tests, anything (both melee and ranged) hits if timed at the tail end of animation. The lingering dodge bonus is removed. Also, now there is a very small but substantial window of vulnerability between dodges, i.e. 100% I-Frames no longer guaranteed by spamming dodge.

Thats was here before the patch. This patch strictly changes the "dodge when someone is in middle of snipe cast time and simply avoid the hit that will land in 2s"

Illuvatarr · October 2018

A Friday a few weeks ago I tested spell miss rates on my mag Sorc on live. Out of roughly 670 spells cast about 75 percent were misses/dodged due to stealth or dodge mechanic. That is binary damage mitigation of 100 percent 75 percent of the time and the number would obviously increase if numbers were calculated based upon the spells that actually landed.

On test server with the new dodge changes, roughly 80 percent of my spells landed. This level of change is dramatic and I think ranged classes will see a huge upswing in that department with this patch. That being said, the dodge and major evasion changes will impact nightblades the most out of any class and I think it will compel many to go straight stealthier/ganker build to compensate as their survivability has just taken a dramatic hit. Add in the speed changes and at least in the quid pro quo for dps delivery we may be approaching something called balance.

Biro123 · October 2018

Illuvatarr wrote: »

A Friday a few weeks ago I tested spell miss rates on my mag Sorc on live. Out of roughly 670 spells cast about 75 percent were misses/dodged due to stealth or dodge mechanic. That is binary damage mitigation of 100 percent 75 percent of the time and the number would obviously increase if numbers were calculated based upon the spells that actually landed.

On test server with the new dodge changes, roughly 80 percent of my spells landed. This level of change is dramatic and I think ranged classes will see a huge upswing in that department with this patch. That being said, the dodge and major evasion changes will impact nightblades the most out of any class and I think it will compel many to go straight stealthier/ganker build to compensate as their survivability has just taken a dramatic hit. Add in the speed changes and at least in the quid pro quo for dps delivery we may be approaching something called balance.

Interesting.

The live figures are very telling and probably pretty close to where my 'gut feel' would put it, if not tempered by a more logical 'cant be that high' thought.

Feanor · October 2018

@Biro123

I’d say these values will adjust once everyone has the new dodge windows down. It’s a matter of days I guess.

TimeDazzler · October 2018

This change really helps wardens in pvp who use the bird spammable. Previously, someone could use 1 dodgeroll to dodge 2 birds if you casted it at them while they were still dodge rolling. Now if they dodge the first one, and you cast a second while they are rolling it will hit them.

NordSwordnBoard · October 2018

Voriak Solkyn: "If you throw skulls at people, this is a buff"

Illuvatarr · October 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

A Friday a few weeks ago I tested spell miss rates on my mag Sorc on live. Out of roughly 670 spells cast about 75 percent were misses/dodged due to stealth or dodge mechanic. That is binary damage mitigation of 100 percent 75 percent of the time and the number would obviously increase if numbers were calculated based upon the spells that actually landed.

On test server with the new dodge changes, roughly 80 percent of my spells landed. This level of change is dramatic and I think ranged classes will see a huge upswing in that department with this patch. That being said, the dodge and major evasion changes will impact nightblades the most out of any class and I think it will compel many to go straight stealthier/ganker build to compensate as their survivability has just taken a dramatic hit. Add in the speed changes and at least in the quid pro quo for dps delivery we may be approaching something called balance.

Interesting.

The live figures are very telling and probably pretty close to where my 'gut feel' would put it, if not tempered by a more logical 'cant be that high' thought.

Well it may be skewed some by the sheer number of heavy armor stam toons we were fighting who were constantly dodge rolling/stealthing....passive dodge played a roll as well. They basically gutted mage Sorc dps with buggy hits on both frags and fury so that may have played a role as well. Numbers are what I parsed however.

Illuvatarr · October 2018

A big buff they could give to mag sorcs to make crystal blast (not shards) more effective in pvp to avoid this silliness is make it harder to dodge in the actual game mechanics and make it unreflectable. The cast time requirement without instant cast option is huge and the aoe component/stun, even though both are great, does not compensate for it during the heat/speed of open pvp.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

Derra wrote: »

All it really changes is basically that projectiles fired from high ranges are no longer automatically dodged even if the dodgeroll ended or if a projectile was fired at the end of a dodgeroll.

And for this reason, it’s a good change.

DDuke · October 2018

Yeah, so practically projectiles like seen here (some of them atleast) will now land & hit the target:

https://youtu.be/IOn-Nyf2APE
October, last year

...but the change isn't as drastic as advertised:

https://youtu.be/OobskWU_Xk0
PTS 4.2.0

Kanar · October 2018

I believe it to be a nerf to the overall "virtual" dodge window - you're going to get hit by more attacks now because before you dodged attacks that started while you were rolling and now you won't dodge those. I tested it, but in blackrose prison so it's hard to compare since obv that content is not available on live.

IMO some monsters are going to be harder to dodge. Think about various heavy attacks you dodge - voriak's skull, the bosmer draining shot in vDSA, adds in indrik fight in vMoS, bone colossus in Fang lair HM. They all have vastly different cast times, and even the same monster might have inconsistent cast times - sometimes voriak's skull comes at me right away, other times it takes forever. Bone colossus waves his hands around for 10s while in the indrik fight those guys are fast! It's gonna make it harder to dodge those that have a long cast time, cause a premature dodge will F you.

However, if they fix the issue known as "zaan's delight" - roll out of poison but still die because the roll hasn't finished - then I will be happy.

Rikumaru · October 2018

I think these changes are going to really hurt medium armor players open world. I'm not too sure why dodge roll was nerfed when ZOS wants to encourage using medium / light armor.

mr_wazzabi · October 2018

susmitds wrote: »

According to my tests, anything (both melee and ranged) hits if timed at the tail end of animation. The lingering dodge bonus is removed. Also, now there is a very small but substantial window of vulnerability between dodges, i.e. 100% I-Frames no longer guaranteed by spamming dodge.

Good. I hated the lingering dodge bonus. It made dodge roll op. Now you must actively dodge instead of relying on a game mechanic. I love it.

Time to land more executes!

P.s. medium armor nb main here.