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When will PvE and PvP be separated?
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Nyghthowler✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »It may be a dead horse but the problem is alive, well, breeding and multiplying. So why should the discussions end? Silence is taken as acceptance.
It is an intentional design decision. Not an oversight. Not a problem. An intentional desing decision. ZOS wants to have a seamless PvE to PvP transition. If you do not like it you will probably be better off in another game rather than waiting for ZOS to do a complete 180 here.
This is a Bullsh!t answer, because the game already has skills that function differently depending on which environment the player is participating in.I'm not prejudiced; I hate everyone equally !1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Honestly .....they should just kill the whole mass battle PVP system, I mean Camelot Unchained is going to take that demographic, it just is. Go back to the old TES arena philosophy.......wandering Gladiators going from arena to arena participating in 2v2 and 4v4 battles. They could use the GW2 system of separate builds, hell they could even attach a quest system to it, to add a bit of story for impetus.
Folks nowadays would rather be the Character in the Movie Gladiator, than the dudes fighting in the lotr battle scene of Pelennor Fields.
Are you not amused?!!!
Er, no, actually I wanna be one of the guys fighting on the Pelennor Fields.
Thats how I spend 90% of my PVP time, actually. I enjoy large scale organized group combat in Cyrodiil, fighting with my team, killing loads of enemy players, taking their keeps, crushing their campaign score, driving their zergs before us, and hearing the lamentations of their players.
If ESO swaps to arenas only, I'm done. Battlegrounds just doesn't keep me interested the way Cyrodiil does. Im sure there are people who feel the other way, of course.
If ZOS wants to save Cyrodiil as a mass AvAvA zone, they've got to fix the lag and performance issues.Edited by VaranisArano on October 17, 2018 5:57PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nyghthowler wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »It may be a dead horse but the problem is alive, well, breeding and multiplying. So why should the discussions end? Silence is taken as acceptance.
It is an intentional design decision. Not an oversight. Not a problem. An intentional desing decision. ZOS wants to have a seamless PvE to PvP transition. If you do not like it you will probably be better off in another game rather than waiting for ZOS to do a complete 180 here.
This is a Bullsh!t answer, because the game already has skills that function differently depending on which environment the player is participating in.
Negate. Anything else? There are exceptions to every rule, you know.1 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭Never, because it would require the development team devoted time to actual game design and coding, rather than reskinning over-priced crap for the Crown Store.3
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TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nyghthowler wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »It may be a dead horse but the problem is alive, well, breeding and multiplying. So why should the discussions end? Silence is taken as acceptance.
It is an intentional design decision. Not an oversight. Not a problem. An intentional desing decision. ZOS wants to have a seamless PvE to PvP transition. If you do not like it you will probably be better off in another game rather than waiting for ZOS to do a complete 180 here.
This is a Bullsh!t answer, because the game already has skills that function differently depending on which environment the player is participating in.
Negate. Anything else? There are exceptions to every rule, you know.
Why don't more PVPers use negate instead of crying out for nerfs then?1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Nyghthowler wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »It may be a dead horse but the problem is alive, well, breeding and multiplying. So why should the discussions end? Silence is taken as acceptance.
It is an intentional design decision. Not an oversight. Not a problem. An intentional desing decision. ZOS wants to have a seamless PvE to PvP transition. If you do not like it you will probably be better off in another game rather than waiting for ZOS to do a complete 180 here.
This is a Bullsh!t answer, because the game already has skills that function differently depending on which environment the player is participating in.
Negate. Anything else? There are exceptions to every rule, you know.
Why don't more PVPers use negate instead of crying out for nerfs then?
I'm not sure how your question is related to the previous post. Pathetic whiners are pathetic whiners no matter if they play PvE or PvP.0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When people stop asking for nerfsCaius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seems that all the nerfs PVPers call for could be applied only to Cyrodiil. As in, once you port into Cyrodiil, all the changes in buffs, damage, healing, monster sets, blah blah blah take effect while you are there. Once you leave, all of those restrictions are lifted.
As for people saying it should be seamless, its not. At any level. If so, my DW stam DK with all divines would not be meat in Cyrodiil. And nobody runs 2H builds rocking Impen in PVE.
I don't mind the division of the two. Both are fun. But I don't understand why PVE needs to succumb to nerfs because a bunch of people who were killed in PVP had their feelings hurt in area chat upon their deaths. Every day there is another thread calling for a nerf. Earthgore! Dawnbreaker! And my personal favorite, VIGOR!!!! Just stop.3 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »Seems that all the nerfs PVPers call for could be applied only to Cyrodiil. As in, once you port into Cyrodiil, all the changes in buffs, damage, healing, monster sets, blah blah blah take effect while you are there. Once you leave, all of those restrictions are lifted.
As for people saying it should be seamless, its not. At any level. If so, my DW stam DK with all divines would not be meat in Cyrodiil. And nobody runs 2H builds rocking Impen in PVE.
I don't mind the division of the two. Both are fun. But I don't understand why PVE needs to succumb to nerfs because a bunch of people who were killed in PVP had their feelings hurt in area chat upon their deaths. Every day there is another thread calling for a nerf. Earthgore! Dawnbreaker! And my personal favorite, VIGOR!!!! Just stop.
Again, the biggest nerf that ever happened in the game - Morrowind sustain changes - was PvE driven. I'm yet to see a patch where PvE DPS takes a significant dip. It either stays roughly the same or increases from patch to patch. You will have much better ground to stand upon if you were to blame general power creep in the form of CPs and new sets for nerfs to skills.
Also nerfs that actually happen in the game and "nerfs" some vocal people ask for on the forums are entirely different things.2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Again, the biggest nerf that ever happened in the game - Morrowind sustain changes - was PvE driven. I'm yet to see a patch where PvE DPS takes a significant dip. It either stays roughly the same or increases from patch to patch. You will have much better ground to stand upon if you were to blame general power creep in the form of CPs and new sets for nerfs to skills.
Also nerfs that actually happen in the game and "nerfs" some vocal people ask for on the forums are entirely different things.
I know, was being a bit hyperbolic. Everyday there is a new nerf proposed or threatened, like the shields debacle. You would think the sky is constantly falling. At the same time, I don't know why devs couldn't change one without changing the other.0 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭El_Borracho wrote: »Seems that all the nerfs PVPers call for could be applied only to Cyrodiil. As in, once you port into Cyrodiil, all the changes in buffs, damage, healing, monster sets, blah blah blah take effect while you are there. Once you leave, all of those restrictions are lifted.
As for people saying it should be seamless, its not. At any level. If so, my DW stam DK with all divines would not be meat in Cyrodiil. And nobody runs 2H builds rocking Impen in PVE.
I don't mind the division of the two. Both are fun. But I don't understand why PVE needs to succumb to nerfs because a bunch of people who were killed in PVP had their feelings hurt in area chat upon their deaths. Every day there is another thread calling for a nerf. Earthgore! Dawnbreaker! And my personal favorite, VIGOR!!!! Just stop.
Again, the biggest nerf that ever happened in the game - Morrowind sustain changes - was PvE driven. I'm yet to see a patch where PvE DPS takes a significant dip. It either stays roughly the same or increases from patch to patch. You will have much better ground to stand upon if you were to blame general power creep in the form of CPs and new sets for nerfs to skills.
Also nerfs that actually happen in the game and "nerfs" some vocal people ask for on the forums are entirely different things.
Well. @Nyghthowler said that skills are already separated somewhat based location as seen by battle spirit (I'm guessing). To which you rather arbitrarily replied "negate". The thread is right up there. As for the sustain nerf how many times do I have to say that PVE also causes PVP nerfs? I'm sure I've said it already. We would be better served with a split. I'd honestly prefer some dev come out and say " No because this would cost too much time/money/effort or whatever" than to have to wonder why my gameplay experiece is being altered by whiners who play (for all intents and purposes) a different game. And please. There is so much more to the game experience that DPS numbers. That PVE numbers aren't dropping substantially shouldn't be the mark you use to tell whether things are going well or not.
Assignment: Find a thread where someone says "NERF BLESSED CP STAR they're outhealing my damage in PVP!"
I'll wait. While you do that I'll look for ten or maybe twenty threads where someone calls for a nerf to Vigor and Earthgore.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »El_Borracho wrote: »Seems that all the nerfs PVPers call for could be applied only to Cyrodiil. As in, once you port into Cyrodiil, all the changes in buffs, damage, healing, monster sets, blah blah blah take effect while you are there. Once you leave, all of those restrictions are lifted.
As for people saying it should be seamless, its not. At any level. If so, my DW stam DK with all divines would not be meat in Cyrodiil. And nobody runs 2H builds rocking Impen in PVE.
I don't mind the division of the two. Both are fun. But I don't understand why PVE needs to succumb to nerfs because a bunch of people who were killed in PVP had their feelings hurt in area chat upon their deaths. Every day there is another thread calling for a nerf. Earthgore! Dawnbreaker! And my personal favorite, VIGOR!!!! Just stop.
Again, the biggest nerf that ever happened in the game - Morrowind sustain changes - was PvE driven. I'm yet to see a patch where PvE DPS takes a significant dip. It either stays roughly the same or increases from patch to patch. You will have much better ground to stand upon if you were to blame general power creep in the form of CPs and new sets for nerfs to skills.
Also nerfs that actually happen in the game and "nerfs" some vocal people ask for on the forums are entirely different things.
Well. @Nyghthowler said that skills are already separated somewhat based location as seen by battle spirit (I'm guessing). To which you rather arbitrarily replied "negate". The thread is right up there. As for the sustain nerf how many times do I have to say that PVE also causes PVP nerfs? I'm sure I've said it already. We would be better served with a split. I'd honestly prefer some dev come out and say " No because this would cost too much time/money/effort or whatever" than to have to wonder why my gameplay experiece is being altered by whiners who play (for all intents and purposes) a different game. And please. There is so much more to the game experience that DPS numbers. That PVE numbers aren't dropping substantially shouldn't be the mark you use to tell whether things are going well or not.
Assignment: Find a thread where someone says "NERF BLESSED CP STAR they're outhealing my damage in PVP!"
I'll wait. While you do that I'll look for ten or maybe twenty threads where someone calls for a nerf to Vigor and Earthgore.
I feel like this argument is going nowhere.
Only a couple of skills in the whole game have altered effects in PvP and PvE. The only two I can remeber are Negate and Ambush. And they are altered very slightly by just removing hard CC component in exchange for a soft CC.
I do not treat something as "PvP nerfs" or "PvE nerfs" and this is the point I'm trying to make. When you are saying "a different game" you are missing the idea. Under the same logic I can say that endgame raiding, overworld questing, casual dungeons, resource farming and so on or all different games. ZOS wants it to be one game. Where you go and play a bit of everything so you are not burnt out before the next content pack drops. They do not like communicating on the forums (or through any other means) and I can completely understand them after seeing most of the posters here. You are not getting your reply. Same as you are probably not getting a separation between PvP and PvE.
DPS numbers are a metric I can easily quantify and that's why I use it. I invite you to come up with something different.
Also I have no idea what NERF BLESSED CP posts (not like they are hard to find, there were multiple posts just this week about changing/removing CP) or NERF Vigor or Earthgore posts have to do with anything. They are forum posts by random users which hold no value except entertainment. Going through patch notes and taking a look at the actual changes that were made to the game is a much better metric.
Anyway, I see no reason to keep arguing for the sake of arguing anymore. You are here just to push your opinion. I will agree to disagree on that matter.1 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. Seamless going between PvE and PvP? My stam PvE chars that bite the bullet, hold their nose and go for VigorCaltrops say woefully NOT! Running with a medium size group capturing castles vs NPCs and other VigorCaltrops chasers is fine but when we run into real PvP characters, they might as well be from a different game. Starting with full impen gear, heavy armor, massive hitpoints and harder to kill than a DLC world boss. When my PvE char is solo and encounters a real PvP player, her best course of action is to sheath her weapon and prepare to blood port - sounds real fun, right?
2. ZoS insists on balancing PvP and PvE together. After several years of that policy, how's it workin' out for ya?
3. I dread every update because I have learned that each one makes my PvE game less fun due to silly/unnecessary nerfs about things no PvE'ers are complaining about. Just one tiny example was removing the stun from shards - the stun that only lasted a second and only effected one foe. Just silly.Edited by AcadianPaladin on October 18, 2018 2:18AMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo2 -
GlorphNoldorin✭✭✭✭✭It is an intentional design decision. Not an oversight. Not a problem. An intentional desing decision. ZOS wants to have a seamless PvE to PvP transition. If you do not like it you will probably be better off in another game rather than waiting for ZOS to do a complete 180 here.[/quote]
It may be an intentional design decision but they have been and are failing miserably.
You have to admire their pig headed stick to their guns attitude....in another situation it would even be a good thing.
All it shows is that the devs that took over the original game designers have no idea at all about what fun combat game play is, how unique classes should be unique and how their game works in general.
If they could only implement small changes rather than obliterating whatever they think is the next band aid, the game would be in much better shape.2 -
mook-eb16_ESO✭✭✭✭up and coming changes are only the tip of the iceberg as concerns pvp; the game pretty much unpayable 90% of the time when you cant even light attack let alone interleave. the game needs a major overhaul of the engine if it is so survive.when player base falls they will remove eu server. I say give it to pvers because they will never fix pvp , better to move along having played since beta.0
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Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They won't. They actually like the conflict and drama and tears, on both sides. All they have to do is please one side one day and the other another day and they have "renewed hope" enough to get people to stick around and see if things get unfudged next patch. As it's been mentioned, they like to shove people's faces in things, and the preachy converts are so vocal that devs now think it's normal to enjoy being forced to do unfun things during your play time.1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭could always make the game pvp focused like it was suppose to be and BEG the original class designers to come back
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They won't. They actually like the conflict and drama and tears, on both sides. All they have to do is please one side one day and the other another day and they have "renewed hope" enough to get people to stick around and see if things get unfudged next patch. As it's been mentioned, they like to shove people's faces in things, and the preachy converts are so vocal that devs now think it's normal to enjoy being forced to do unfun things during your play time.
As long as people do unfun things during their playtime, the devs will continue adding unfun things to do with our playtime.
I hit my limit on the 3rd Murkmire daily, said "Eff it," and went to go do something else. 150 boring fetch-quest, competitive, run-all-over-the-zone dailies is beyond my ability to suck it up and do unfun things for rewards.2 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »They won't. They actually like the conflict and drama and tears, on both sides. All they have to do is please one side one day and the other another day and they have "renewed hope" enough to get people to stick around and see if things get unfudged next patch. As it's been mentioned, they like to shove people's faces in things, and the preachy converts are so vocal that devs now think it's normal to enjoy being forced to do unfun things during your play time.
As long as people do unfun things during their playtime, the devs will continue adding unfun things to do with our playtime.
I hit my limit on the 3rd Murkmire daily, said "Eff it," and went to go do something else. 150 boring fetch-quest, competitive, run-all-over-the-zone dailies is beyond my ability to suck it up and do unfun things for rewards.
Agreed.
Some people who like to blame the devs like to ignore the fact that the players share equal blame."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭could always make the game pvp focused like it was suppose to be and BEG the original class designers to come back
Can I beg the original coders of Cyrodiil to come back and fix the performance issues? Oh, and the original quest coders to come back and fix known bugs?
And while I'm wishing for the moon, can I get the guy who designed the Guild Store UI to add a text search function?
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