CP are good idea in general. You keep on playing for a long time constantly making your character slightly more powerful. But they have way too huge impact.

The easiest (and very good) solution: Just nerf them ~5x. Should work great as a quick-fix and almost nobody will cry about the changes. You will just get 0.1% of something instead 0.5% for a point.

I believe most of people don't care if they get 0.5% or 0.1%. Players just love developement and increasing power of their character, it doesn't neccessarily has to be as significant as it is in the current state.

The problem with CPs in PvE is that bosses and moobs don't have CP. And if ZOS is not planning to buff all the bosses everytime they increase CP the cap, PvE content will become easier and easier and finally once very fun and demanding bosses will feel easy and "obsolete"... I've seen that in many other MMOs. Unless ZOS is planning to scale up monsters to highest/average player CP by having buffed statistics - CPs in dungeons just should be disabled. They are not a type of content designed for CPs.

BuddyAces wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Why is it that Vertical Character Progression is such a problem with most of you.


I don’t want to be the same strength in two years from now

Felt like I was the odd man out thinking this way. Going by the forums everyone would be happy still at 20k dps while wearing the same sets from 3 years ago. I like to get stronger.

Mind boggled.

But you dint get stronger becauce you get a better player. You just get stronger because zos gives you power for doing nothing. But i understand your point. Its the only way moast of the players can complete the content.

Sooo my little project of leaving all my EU chars temporary behind and make a fresh first char on the NA servers where I have never logged on previously is taking form:

my little tank char is lvl 48 now through playing overland content and doing all dungeons in the game at the moment when they unlocked to me. I have used only gear I have found myself, not using any help from external sources or people. And I have zero cp of course since I need to ding 50 before I receive my first cp point

Since I've now completed almost all the game's dungeons with group finder to complete their skill point quests I have to say it's fun and challenging. Resources are a big problem, cast 2-3 skills and you're out. All non-dlc dungeons I managed to cope with through smart play and loads of heavy attacks but in my first DLC dungeon: Ruins of Mazzatun I had reached the limit of what is possible. there's ALOT of adds that need taunting and loads of dmge coming in that requires blocking and the adds stay up forever until the slow dps people finally kill them. Even though all my attribute points and blue food (stam + stam regen) are in stamina I still run out in no time. Since the healer was a clueless sorc without orbs and one of the dps was clueless as well it was a real challenge with quite a few wipes. Things just live too long and eat all my stamina then I slowly start dying. This was in full ebon set + full plague doctor which I had consciously farmed during my dungeon and overland runs.

Next DLC dungeon I did at lvl 47 was White gold tower. 1 dps was a non-speaking heavy armored bowman with 28k health that only seemed to have light attack as a skil... to my great surprise we managed to reach inhibitor but after 2 tries I was forced to kick-replace this after he was unable to even communicate so our explanations of tactics turned out pointless. Some 780cp replaced him and burned down the inhibitor in second round while I shield charged portals lol...

next I did Moon hunter keep. There was our dear heavy armored bowman again ! Again light attacking his way through the dungeon. We had a high cp healer and medium cp. Since on Eu I have done hardmode several times and know this dungeon inside out we actually managed to 3-man this dungeon and carry the 4th as pure dead weight. Nice ! Whish I could say the same about fights like the inhibitor...

Last night right after I dinged lvl 48 and finished researching my second trait in blacksmithing I crafted my first full set of 2-trait tank gear (Death's Wind) in sturdy trait and combined it with new plague doctor gear I farmed myself. For the first time I feel somewhat closer to any of my multiple EU tank chars with 26K phys resistance when hardened armor is on and at least some proper block reduction in terms of sustainability.


Then I logged back on to my EU main tank....WOW I'm a god ! I'm oh so powerful Yessss the cp power creep is real and it never felt so clear after a few days on NA servers with a virgin char !

Maryal wrote: »

I really hope they go with @Alcast suggestion of Nightmare mode (vet hard mode w/CP disabled). It would take a while to figure out new builds and different ways of approaching the content (un-learning what they've grown accustome to and learning a new way to complete the content). I have no doubt that top tier players will be able to successfully clear Nightmare mode content. In so doing, it will actually prove that CP is not the main or sole reason for 'power creep'. It will further demonstrate that the problem of 'power creep' will need to be addressed on 3 different levels.

CP is a factor, but it's the smallest of 3 factors.

I've been advocating an extra difficulty tier myself for years now. Glad to see Alcast shares my opinion. I would love to see the day where just like in homestead the tank is once more encouraged and rewarded for building into the most tanky char (instead of dps buffer), dps the most damage dealing while survivable (instead of glass cannon) and the healer building for the strongest healing powers and survivability (instead of a dps buffer and supporter).

BuddyAces wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Why is it that Vertical Character Progression is such a problem with most of you.


I don’t want to be the same strength in two years from now

Felt like I was the odd man out thinking this way. Going by the forums everyone would be happy still at 20k dps while wearing the same sets from 3 years ago. I like to get stronger.

Mind boggled.

But you dint get stronger becauce you get a better player. You just get stronger because zos gives you power for doing nothing. But i understand your point. Its the only way moast of the players can complete the content.

Is English not your first language? EU maybe? I'm sorry but I just don't understand what you're trying to say. Your post makes no sense to me =\

since English isn't my first language either and I'm used to interpreting "Eurenglish" I'll try to translate this phrase for you in his stead:

"You say you like vertical progression as in getting stronger over time but what I don't agree with is that in the current ZOS implementation you are getting this vertical progression for free by just playing the game -properly or not- while in contrast I believe you should have to work in order to earn vertical progression. Becoming stronger should only be received as a reward for or result of your successful efforts of becoming a better player and conquering content, not just for anyone and for free

But I understand your point. It's too much to ask proper play from most players in the ESO player community so the only way they will ever achieve vertical progression is by receiving like this...for free"


Is that more or less the message you wanted to say @Saint_Bud ?

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Why is it that Vertical Character Progression is such a problem with most of you.


I don’t want to be the same strength in two years from now

Felt like I was the odd man out thinking this way. Going by the forums everyone would be happy still at 20k dps while wearing the same sets from 3 years ago. I like to get stronger.

Mind boggled.

But you dint get stronger becauce you get a better player. You just get stronger because zos gives you power for doing nothing. But i understand your point. Its the only way moast of the players can complete the content.

Is English not your first language? EU maybe? I'm sorry but I just don't understand what you're trying to say. Your post makes no sense to me =\

since English isn't my first language either and I'm used to interpreting "Eurenglish" I'll try to translate this phrase for you in his stead:

"You say you like vertical progression as in getting stronger over time but what I don't agree with is that in the current ZOS implementation you are getting this vertical progression for free by just playing the game -properly or not- while in contrast I believe you should have to work in order to earn vertical progression. Becoming stronger should only be received as a reward for or result of your successful efforts of becoming a better player and conquering content, not just for anyone and for free

But I understand your point. It's too much to ask proper play from most players in the ESO player community so the only way they will ever achieve vertical progression is by receiving like this...for free"


Is that more or less the message you wanted to say @Saint_Bud ?

Yes, this is it. Thanks for the translate.
And my first language is german.

BuddyAces wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Why is it that Vertical Character Progression is such a problem with most of you.


I don’t want to be the same strength in two years from now

Felt like I was the odd man out thinking this way. Going by the forums everyone would be happy still at 20k dps while wearing the same sets from 3 years ago. I like to get stronger.

Mind boggled.

They could allow us to get stronger by increasing base level instead of CP

Leave CP to boost other things as mentioned in my previous post

Maryal wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

CP replaced the old VR system (under the old VR system you did become more powerful as you ranked up, a lot of which had to do with the increased stats associated with higher levels of VR gear).

Investing in CP increases your stats to an extent ... there are diminishing returns once you get to a certain point ... investing additional CP points thereafter provides a negligible benefit (no power creep). The cool thing about CP is once you reach 'diminishing returns' on the nodes you normally invest CP in, you can then start to invest CP for a hybrid build -- with enough CP you should be able to create a hybrid build that is just as powerful as a stam or magica toon. In other words it will provide for additional diversity.

But there is no choice in those bonuses, not any more at least.
Because of the diminished returns and number of CP we have you just take 5-10% buff to everything, with 5-10% buffs to more things as you get more CP.
As I just said in my post above it's not like we have to make the hard choices of damage, sustain or defence, we just take 5-10% bonus in all of those.

Also why does CP need to grant more Health/Magicka/Stamina for the first 300 points in each? We're already getting big boosts things we choose but get the double-dip of even more power.

Some people 'think outside-the-box' when creating builds, including where they spend their CP. For these people, CP offers us a lot of choice and build diversity.

The more you know about the game and the game mechanics, the more possibilities you see -- more ways of combining things to make something different and unique. And with these possibilities, these unique builds, there are choices to be made ... difficult choices between dps, defense, healing, resources, etc., because you can't 'have it all' ... which means you also rely heavily on your mastery of the game/game mechanics to help 'supplement' your build.

There are two sides to a coin, so let's look at the 'other side' -- To reach max CP requires a significant investment of time and energy. During the time it took many of us to reach max CP, we also gained a lot of experience ... you know, we got even better playing the game because of how long we've been playing it. We've done more things more often, like dungeons, trials, etc., and have tons of armor sets (proc sets), monster sets, enhanced weapons, jewelry sets, etc. as a result. We've also gotten better at rotations, we know game mechanics better, we have been playing so long that we are pretty good at pvp ... including anticipating enemy players movements/tactics. With all this in mind, can we really say CP is responsible for this thing called 'power creep?"

Let's look at it another way: If you put a bunch of max level CP players in plain armor, you know, armor with absolute no set bonuses, and gave them plain weapons to use (no enhanced weapons, no set pieces) and plain jewelry that had no set bonuses, do you really think those players would be able to perform anywhere near what they can do when they are fully decked out in their proc set armors, using their enhanced weapons, monster sets and jewelry sets?

The CP system is fine the way it is -- what is problematic are the type and quantity of proc sets, enhanced weapon sets, monster sets, jewelry sets, etc., we have in the game ... approximately 90% of all the proc sets we have came AFTER CP was introduced into the game.

If you want to reverse or nullify the 'power creep' - tone down all the proc sets, enhanced weapons and monster sets to make them less impactful.

I am going to reiterate this point because it is so important -- the CP system is NOT the problem.

Agree.
The power ceases to increase significantly with cp after 500 cp. Power creep is caused by a lot of changes not CP system.
How much dps can you pull without relequen in stam toon? How much dps can you pull with old julianos + bsw without siroria. Not even mention this new spell strategist, proc set 530 spell damage single target. That’s 1100 spell damage from siroria+spell strategist. How much does julianos+bsw provide? Around 600.
Also duel wield and destro light attack got buffed, look at flame destro, now they pull 11k+ on magNB.

SugaComa wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Why is it that Vertical Character Progression is such a problem with most of you.


I don’t want to be the same strength in two years from now

Felt like I was the odd man out thinking this way. Going by the forums everyone would be happy still at 20k dps while wearing the same sets from 3 years ago. I like to get stronger.

Mind boggled.

They could allow us to get stronger by increasing base level instead of CP

Leave CP to boost other things as mentioned in my previous post

no, this is exactly where we come from. We used to level to 50, then further on upwards to lvl VR12 (Veteran Rank) then later on they added VR14 and eventually finally lvl VR16 was introduced. But by then ZOS realized that people cannot catch up anymore and compete in pvp or exchange gear since gear drops at your level and different levels playing together always yield in gear incompatibility.

They realized that adding even more levels (higher Veteran Ranks past 16) would even further increase the gap and problem so they changed the system with eye towards the future and Veteran Rank 16 was changed into CP160 and was the highest obtainable rank for gear from that on, regardless high much more cp you would collect after that.

This 'new' cp system allowed people to still get more powers through vertical progression but at the same time everyone having reached the baseline 'veteran' level of CP160 now had access to all gear in an equal state and everyone could farm together, whether you are cp177 or CP1200.

So you see ? What you propose is actually the problematic state we come from and the cp system was the solution to it !

I don't think I'd have much reason to play if CP was taken away. It gives me something to work towards.

/shrug