While I feel the Shuffle changes are a big buff to medium (though by no means surpassing heavy), I don't like it from a design philosophy standpoint.

Heavy already fills the niche of the brawly, passive mitigation-based playstyle, and excels at it. Medium on the other hand is clearly intended to be more mobility/evasiveness-based, and the passives, abilities and sets reflect this. The numbers are just too low to be competitive.

Giving it 25% passive mitigation through major evasion just feels at odds with this design goal and homogenises it with heavy (which will get the same thing via blade cloak anyway).

An increase to the Shuffle immunity duration and changing Athletics to 2% general movespeed per piece would do nicely imo.

People forgetting medium got a damage buff

Medium should 100% have access to longer snare immunity.

SUGGESTION: Shuffle gives base immunity of 2 seconds PLUS .5s per each piece worn.


Aoe Mit would make more sense in heavy.
Idk how they’d redesign evasion and immovable, but its prob too late for that now.

For everyone arguing that heavy armor is more mobile because of Forward Momentum, why d9nt you slot it instead of shuffle than? I do on my med armor Warden build... cause you know, it's not heavy armor exclusive skill, it's 2h skill

Kanar wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.

Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer

The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.

I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.

It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).

I wonder sometimes if PvP-only players like this have ever even used medium armor? Are you aware that medium armor is a melee armor and dodge roll does NOTHING vs aoes? Medium armor gets eaten alive by the current popular aoe builds - spin2win, shalks, dbos, hurricane. And also by bleeds (worse than heavy). Medium needs a way to survive vs aoe damage in both PvP and PvE (where stam is excluded from some trials due to it's squishiness and lack of range).

Interestingly enough, all those AoE's you listed can be moved out of/away from with proper mobility, which doesn't exist currently for medium. I play medium on every class and have since 1T, but I'll be switching to heavy next patch on multiple builds unless ZoS does something to fix medium's mobility.

So you're telling me that PvE stam builds use shuffle, huh? Interesting, I didn't know that. I thought they used blade cloak. /s

Just for the record, I've completed all crag vet trials, all vet HM 4 man content, 46k DSA, 520k+ VMA score, etc. I also PvP with some of the top-tier PvE players on my server. I understand how stamina functions (or does not) in PvE. Shuffle has nothing to do whatsoever with that, and this thread is about changing shuffle.

So much flies over your head, it's hard to know where to start to make you informed. The change to Major Evasion has been done in part to make more builds viable in PvE, for example bow/bow in CR and AS where range is needed, the aoe mitigation may now be enough to make that playstyle viable. This addresses the complaint of these trials being magicka-only. Likewise 2h build in PvE can get aoe protection.

Also maybe you missed the fact that most medium armor users are melee and therefore must be in melee range? I guess your leet 520k vMA score let's you weave in and out between steel tornado spins to get those kills, maybe you crutch on swift to make it happen.

"The change to an armor weight's 5pc required skill is to make bow/bow more viable in pve".

Stigant wrote: »

For everyone arguing that heavy armor is more mobile because of Forward Momentum, why d9nt you slot it instead of shuffle than? I do on my med armor Warden build... cause you know, it's not heavy armor exclusive skill, it's 2h skill

Warden is the only stam class with access to an on demand burst heal that isnt rally (spores). They also have enough passive healing in general that they can make it work, however the other classes sacrifice way too much dropping their burst heal in medium ro justify it.

While wearing 5 pieces of medium 2x the duration of your snare and root immunity.

Change Improved Sneak to Improved Agility, where having 5 pieces of Medium Armor grants permanent Minor Expedition.

Change Agility to Master at Arms, where having 5 pieces of Medium Armor grants 400 Weapon Damage.

Athletics instead should grant at Rank II: 0.25 sec snare immunity per piece of Medium Armor worn, after dodge rolling.

Evasion morphs grant Major Evasion (Major Evasion should be 20%, Minor Evasion 8%, in that case it should offer Minor for reasonable stacking) and:

Shuffle heals 2000 (able to crit) health points when successfully dodgeing an attack, 1sec cd. Reduces Dodge Roll cost by 4% per piece of Medium Armor worn while active.

Elude grants Minor Ward/Resolve. Reduce Dodge Roll cost by 4% and increase its duration by 5% per piece of Medium Armor worn while active.

I think this would even out many things between heavy and medium, granting medium some nice perks when playing with its signature skill.

Also that way other armor classes have a possibility of snare removal with 5/1/1 - 5/2 - 6/1 Layouts, but it‘s only really consistent if built for it in medium.

Buzo wrote: »

Change Improved Sneak to Improved Agility, where having 5 pieces of Medium Armor grants permanent Minor Expedition.

Change Agility to Master at Arms, where having 5 pieces of Medium Armor grants 400 Weapon Damage.

Athletics instead should grant at Rank II: 0.25 sec snare immunity per piece of Medium Armor worn, after dodge rolling.

Evasion morphs grant Major Evasion (Major Evasion should be 20%, Minor Evasion 8%, in that case it should offer Minor for reasonable stacking) and:

Shuffle heals 2000 (able to crit) health points when successfully dodgeing an attack, 1sec cd. Reduces Dodge Roll cost by 4% per piece of Medium Armor worn while active.

Elude grants Minor Ward/Resolve. Reduce Dodge Roll cost by 4% and increase its duration by 5% per piece of Medium Armor worn while active.

I think this would even out many things between heavy and medium, granting medium some nice perks when playing with its signature skill.

Also that way other armor classes have a possibility of snare removal with 5/1/1 - 5/2 - 6/1 Layouts, but it‘s only really consistent if built for it in medium.

@Buzo Your ideas would be a massive nerf from PTS.

Removal of Improved Sneak is a major nerf to StamNB gank builds.

15% weapon damage is greater than 400 weapon damage on any build greater with more than 2666 weapon damage base unbuffed (but including set procs). Considering buffs, it is a bit better but still 15% wep dmg>400 wep dmg on any build more than 3k weapon damage. My PvP gankblade has 5.4k weapon damage unbuffed and my PvE build hits 7.5k weapon damage buffed. It would be a massive nerf to most medium armor builds.

This idea is a nerf to dodge spamming builds, as dodging is rather hard to sustain.

Your Evasion idea is already a nerf from 25% AoE reduction. Only one class has access to Minor Evasion.

The fact that you are asking to take passive properties to add to a skill morph is ridiculous.

Your shuffle idea would have been good but you are forcing a choice between dodge sustain with it, making it unsustainable.

Virtually all your ideas would be massive nerf to Medium Armor, but end up being a buff to Light Armor/Heavy Armor in 5/1/1 or 5/2.

susmitds wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Change Improved Sneak to Improved Agility, where having 5 pieces of Medium Armor grants permanent Minor Expedition.

Change Agility to Master at Arms, where having 5 pieces of Medium Armor grants 400 Weapon Damage.

Athletics instead should grant at Rank II: 0.25 sec snare immunity per piece of Medium Armor worn, after dodge rolling.

Evasion morphs grant Major Evasion (Major Evasion should be 20%, Minor Evasion 8%, in that case it should offer Minor for reasonable stacking) and:

Shuffle heals 2000 (able to crit) health points when successfully dodgeing an attack, 1sec cd. Reduces Dodge Roll cost by 4% per piece of Medium Armor worn while active.

Elude grants Minor Ward/Resolve. Reduce Dodge Roll cost by 4% and increase its duration by 5% per piece of Medium Armor worn while active.

I think this would even out many things between heavy and medium, granting medium some nice perks when playing with its signature skill.

Also that way other armor classes have a possibility of snare removal with 5/1/1 - 5/2 - 6/1 Layouts, but it‘s only really consistent if built for it in medium.

@Buzo Your ideas would be a massive nerf from PTS.

Removal of Improved Sneak is a major nerf to StamNB gank builds.

15% weapon damage is greater than 400 weapon damage on any build greater with more than 2666 weapon damage base unbuffed (but including set procs). Considering buffs, it is a bit better but still 15% wep dmg>400 wep dmg on any build more than 3k weapon damage. My PvP gankblade has 5.4k weapon damage unbuffed and my PvE build hits 7.5k weapon damage buffed. It would be a massive nerf to most medium armor builds.

This idea is a nerf to dodge spamming builds, as dodging is rather hard to sustain.

Your Evasion idea is already a nerf from 25% AoE reduction. Only one class has access to Minor Evasion.

The fact that you are asking to take passive properties to add to a skill morph is ridiculous.

Your shuffle idea would have been good but you are forcing a choice between dodge sustain with it, making it unsustainable.

Virtually all your ideas would be massive nerf to Medium Armor, but end up being a buff to Light Armor/Heavy Armor in 5/1/1 or 5/2.

You are worried about improved sneak passive for gankers? Lol.

@susmitds

About StamNB Gank builds (lol)

There‘s sets that enforce this effortless sort of playstyle already. I don‘t see a problem why the removal of a passive that only affects one playstyle on a specific class in PvP is a nerf, when it‘s replaced by something that supports all kind of playstyles and classes, even your mentioned.

Adding the flat value, as mentioned, should not allow you to reach much different numbers. You couldn‘t think farther than the percentual empowerment on a build that aims for one dimensional stats. The flat value allows medium armor to utilize more of its non weapon damage centric sets and maintain the designated dps role.

There‘s no nerf to dodge roll „spamming“ builds, but it entices them to build around the armors signature skill and with mentioned adjustments rewards them more for doing so. If you want permanent low dodge roll costs there‘s means that even allow that on heavy armor, so I think it‘s right to have that moved to the skill.

Major Evasion is too strong at 25% but it will most probably be introduced that way. What I mentioned was more aimed at PvE builds being able to stack Minor and Major on DW, while having the possibility to offheal in scenarios such as vMA.

Calling this a buff to other armor weights as if it was something negative shows how narrow minded you are.

I understand you‘re not open to ideas that would derive your success from using your meta classes/mechanics. But instead of just bashing, why don‘t you propose something better? These are just suggestion, be at ease. Tomorrow and the day after patch you‘ll wake up and everything OP you used will work exactly the same as it has been since you saw them build videos. There‘s no need to adapt yet.

Players like you are a nerf to the evolution of this game.