Ability-altering weapons, the vMA bow & staff in particular with this thread, cannot be compared to full 5-piece sets just because of how they work. The reason why people say that people who can't complete vMA won't see an impactful change running the weapons, is because the abilities these weapons alter require proper usage to actually be an advantage.
The vMA bow buffs Volley the longer it lasts, so you get the most out of it when you let it run its course and refresh it immediately as it ends, which newer players, ie the players who can't complete vMA, generally don't grasp (yet). The vMA destruction staff directly buffs weaving, so you will only see the damage boost if you're adequately weaving, which newer players generally don't (yet). To make matters worse, ability-altering weapons, at least weapons like the vMA bow and the vDSA dual wield, require a damage tick to go through in order to proc, and so require the user to have the right rotation to use them, which newer players generally don't have a clean rotation.
So we have these weapons locked behind the veteran version of the arena, and players, who generally won't be advantaged running these weapons, are asking for lesser version of them. At that point, the weapon will literally be useless, because what little advantage the "perfect" weapon has gets gutted if the "imperfect" is a nerfed version of the "perfect" weapon. At that point, newer players will genuinely be better off running a 5-piece set in place of a special weapon like this. So, what's the point of giving out basically a feel-good trophy?
Aside from having access to weapons, vMA does teach you things about the game. vMA not only teaches you awareness skills and how to adapt to mechanics on-the-fly, but it also teaches you about your class's strengths and weaknesses, and how to navigate and exploit them. You cannot learn these things in even a vet trial, where you have 11 other players to carry you through the ***. vMA not only teaches you things, but forces you to learn them in order to even move on to the next add wave, let alone the next stage.
As I said. vMA is less about memorising the spawns, and more about learning the mechanics. There are dozens of guides on vMA, and I recommended two very helpful guides from Joy, who even has tips on not only each of the stages, but each of the classes. This information is out there, and if you are bashing your head against a wall, I highly recommend looking for it, as I was in the same spot.
vMA is one of the most rage-inducing pieces of content in the game if you're inexperienced, but it is one of the very few pieces of content that truly teaches you about the game at such a high level. And it rewards you with a strong weapon, that makes a good player better, but a strong player a monster.
People forget that ESO shines not just because of its lore, setting and gameplay but also because of its horizontal progression. ESO is one of the rare MMOs where you can use every set at every content without drawbacks. Some people want some kind of a treadmill for their equipment... maybe those people should play WoW where your equipment becomes useless after every major patch...Weapons set should not divided in normal and perfect version.
Zos started it from as, and then black Rose Prison.
They broke the rules.
fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »I'm not gonna kill myself trying the VMA. It's quite pointless whatever I do. I'm not too much of an avid player.
But I don't understand. If the other dungeons offer a normal and Perfected version, why not the same for Maelstrom weapons ?
First acquire some normal ones, and then go and try beat the VMA. The only way I see to increase my damage is to give up on my tanking, and that makes me very fragile.
And even so, doesn't look like it's enough.
@ZOS_GinaBruno But really, why is Maelstrom different than the others ?
leepalmer95 wrote: »The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.
If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.
But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.
The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.
The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.
Not at all.
The problem is that the player base in this game is just sheer lazy. They're so used to light attacking their way through content that when anything even remotely 'challenging' comes up they'd rather it nerfed and made easier than try it.
I don't see it myself, if i play games are it's too easy i get so bored i either increase the difficulty or stop playing the game.
VMSA is 3 yr old content, it's been nerfed numerous times as well. If you aren't even willing to try the content they don't come on the forum and ask for the rewards to been made easier to get.
The game doesn't encourage experience (as in terms of game mastery). Pvp doesn't encourage it either - in fact, it does the opposite -- it encourages joining ball groups and playing follow the leader.
Unfortunately too many of these (under-experienced) players think they are better at the game than they really are -- and you know what happens next, right? Yep, the forums are inundated with posts from these players qq'ing about some class they can't kill (or got killed by), their inability to counter against some skill/ability, or how their armor is weak-sauce, etc., they either jump on the nerf bandwagon, or insist that ZOS should totally re-work large parts of the game (armor passives, skills/abilities, CP, gear sets, etc.).When vMA was first introduced nobody beat it their first playthrough, nor their second, nor their third, etc. Back then we knew what it meant to 'get gud' ... we didn't have a barrage of powerful proc sets to choose from, most of us wore agility, endurance or willpower jewelry, and we had relatively few monster sets to chose from (most wore engine guardian, blood spawn or valkyn scoria).
Since that time, for better or worse, ZOS has made it easier and easier for under-experienced players to acquire powerful gear with not a lot of effort ... ZOS knows many of these under-experienced players use this gear as a substitute for experience/game mastery.
Pumping out more and more powerful gear every 3 months isn't fixing anything, in fact, it is making things worse -- the 'power gap' between players with a lot of experience/game mastery vs. under-experienced players keeps getting wider.
You're not going to gain meaningful experience/game mastery by following the leader in a ball-group, or being carried by a group doing difficult pve content, or by watching YouTube videos.
These under-experienced players need to solo difficult content as a learning experience ... but they aren't going to do that unless they are properly incentivized. So far, all we have in that regard is Maelstrom Arena.
So why don't they just do vMA? The problem is that vMA is too difficult for many of these under-experienced players - no matter what they do they will fail; they simply are too under experienced in terms of game mechanics, timing, mastery.
While vMA may be out of reach for a lot of these players, nMA is a different story. For them, completing nMA will be very difficult and challenging, but not insurmountable. Completing this content will give them a lot of 'gains' in terms of experience, game mechanics, timing, etc.
Unfortunately, the rewards from nMA provide little in terms of an incentive to complete the content (you can get better armor sets elsewhere and in group content that you can be carried in).
THROW THEM A BONE! Make non-perfected Maelstrom weapons a reality!
Who the hell cares? How is any of this relevant? Why does it matter to you or to anyone if people who want this gear can't use this gear to its full potential? Relequen is another you-need-to-be-able-to-weave properly set, and a lot of people won't be able to use it to its full potential. Moondancer is going to be worthless to anyone who isn't in a well-coordinated group with lots of synergies being thrown, and people who can't beat vMA are unlikely to be running with groups where Moondancer would be good. But none of that matters: it's available to anyone, just as it should be. Maybe one day they'll learn to use the weapon properly. Or they'll decided that they don't want the weapon because they can't use it properly. Or maybe someone can weave properly but can't beat vMA for other reasons unrelated to their ability to weave. Or maybe they'll use the weapon for a terrible reason such as them liking the appearance of holding a giant honey dipper. It doesn't matter because none of that is your business or my business.Ability-altering weapons, the vMA bow & staff in particular with this thread, cannot be compared to full 5-piece sets just because of how they work. The reason why people say that people who can't complete vMA won't see an impactful change running the weapons, is because the abilities these weapons alter require proper usage to actually be an advantage.
The vMA bow buffs Volley the longer it lasts, so you get the most out of it when you let it run its course and refresh it immediately as it ends, which newer players, ie the players who can't complete vMA, generally don't grasp (yet). The vMA destruction staff directly buffs weaving, so you will only see the damage boost if you're adequately weaving, which newer players generally don't (yet). To make matters worse, ability-altering weapons, at least weapons like the vMA bow and the vDSA dual wield, require a damage tick to go through in order to proc, and so require the user to have the right rotation to use them, which newer players generally don't have a clean rotation.
This is wildly speculative. If ZOS makes new Perfect weapons with an extra stat bonus (like the BRP weapons), then Imperfect will not be "gutted". It'll just be what the current weapons already are, and Perfect will be a buffed version with extra stats. If ZOS makes new Imperfect weapons with slightly lower numbers (e.g., similar to how the Imperfect Asylum resto reduces cost by 27% vs. 30% for the Perfect), I would hardly call that "gutting".So we have these weapons locked behind the veteran version of the arena, and players, who generally won't be advantaged running these weapons, are asking for lesser version of them. At that point, the weapon will literally be useless, because what little advantage the "perfect" weapon has gets gutted if the "imperfect" is a nerfed version of the "perfect" weapon. At that point, newer players will genuinely be better off running a 5-piece set in place of a special weapon like this.
Nobody's giving out any "feel-good trophies" because the gear isn't the trophy. The "feel-good trophy" is the Stormproof title. Or that polymorph. Gear isn't--and shouldn't--be the trophy. But for people who cling onto the notion of gear as trophies, well, the Perfected weapons would be the new trophy.So, what's the point of giving out basically a feel-good trophy?
This is completely and utterly irrelevant. Yes, vMA is a rite of passage for anyone who wants to engage in ESO's endgame. I strongly urge people to do vMA. And I always tell them, "If you're running vMA for the gear, you're running vMA for the wrong reasons." People should run vMA. But they should run vMA because of what vMA teaches players and for the sense of accomplishment. vMA is not about the gear. It shouldn't be about the gear.Aside from having access to weapons, vMA does teach you things about the game. vMA not only teaches you awareness skills and how to adapt to mechanics on-the-fly, but it also teaches you about your class's strengths and weaknesses, and how to navigate and exploit them.
Is that seriously your answer to not being able to beat vma? Is to make the weapons perfected and non perfected so anyone can get a cookie?
You obviously dont need the weapons. Facepalm
Umm thank you for telling me what I don’t need.
While you’re at it would you also like to tell me how to play my game ?
You obviously are a very good player so I’d request you to keep your privilege in check in the future.
If you can't complete vma, you likely don't need them for competing the content you plan to do
Emma_Overload wrote: »If you can't complete vma, you likely don't need them for competing the content you plan to do
I seriously doubt there is ANY content in the game that requires the use of Maelstrom weapons. I can't imagine that any of them are necessary for PvP, either.
HOWEVER, there is most certainly a SOCIAL requirement to possess certain gear. Some guilds act like friggin' country clubs with all their ridiculous demands, especially when it comes to trial groups. I strongly suspect this social aspect is the underlying reason for requests like the OP's.
Emma_Overload wrote: »If you can't complete vma, you likely don't need them for competing the content you plan to do
I seriously doubt there is ANY content in the game that requires the use of Maelstrom weapons. I can't imagine that any of them are necessary for PvP, either.
HOWEVER, there is most certainly a SOCIAL requirement to possess certain gear. Some guilds act like friggin' country clubs with all their ridiculous demands, especially when it comes to trial groups. I strongly suspect this social aspect is the underlying reason for requests like the OP's.
Many moons ago I would of mostly disagreed with having Maelstrom weapons added to normal mode due to the lack of difficulty involved (would of rather have them be randomly sold at The Golden like monster sets for those who have trouble farming them), but the fact that there will be imperfect and perfect versions of the Blackrose weapons somewhat warrants and update to Master/Maelstrom weapons. I have also read some interesting suggestions in different posts on here of potentially updating Asylum weapons so that the main effect is the same for both imperfect and perfect versions, but the perfect versions would have some kind up stat increase.
If Maelstrom weapons are separated into imperfect and perfect versions I think that all currently obtained Maelstrom weapons should automatically become perfect, while the ones obtained from normal will be imperfect without the stat boost. Perfect Blackrose weapons are obtained from just completing veteran mode (plenty of deaths and sigil use will not prevent you from getting your drop) and you have three other people to trade with. As much as I love Maelstrom Arena it is old content that you can only do solo and the drop rate for the specific item you want is cancerous. You can't transmute a staff into an axe. People have already completed hundreds of runs for their desired weapons and it is only fair if the weapons that they already have are made perfect if Imperfect Maelstrom weapons end up being added into the game.
fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »I'm not gonna kill myself trying the VMA. It's quite pointless whatever I do. I'm not too much of an avid player.
But I don't understand. If the other dungeons offer a normal and Perfected version, why not the same for Maelstrom weapons ?
First acquire some normal ones, and then go and try beat the VMA. The only way I see to increase my damage is to give up on my tanking, and that makes me very fragile.
And even so, doesn't look like it's enough.
@ZOS_GinaBruno But really, why is Maelstrom different than the others ?
Ability-altering weapons, the vMA bow & staff in particular with this thread, cannot be compared to full 5-piece sets just because of how they work. The reason why people say that people who can't complete vMA won't see an impactful change running the weapons, is because the abilities these weapons alter require proper usage to actually be an advantage.
The vMA bow buffs Volley the longer it lasts, so you get the most out of it when you let it run its course and refresh it immediately as it ends, which newer players, ie the players who can't complete vMA, generally don't grasp (yet). The vMA destruction staff directly buffs weaving, so you will only see the damage boost if you're adequately weaving, which newer players generally don't (yet). To make matters worse, ability-altering weapons, at least weapons like the vMA bow and the vDSA dual wield, require a damage tick to go through in order to proc, and so require the user to have the right rotation to use them, which newer players generally don't have a clean rotation.
So we have these weapons locked behind the veteran version of the arena, and players, who generally won't be advantaged running these weapons, are asking for lesser version of them. At that point, the weapon will literally be useless, because what little advantage the "perfect" weapon has gets gutted if the "imperfect" is a nerfed version of the "perfect" weapon. At that point, newer players will genuinely be better off running a 5-piece set in place of a special weapon like this. So, what's the point of giving out basically a feel-good trophy?
Aside from having access to weapons, vMA does teach you things about the game. vMA not only teaches you awareness skills and how to adapt to mechanics on-the-fly, but it also teaches you about your class's strengths and weaknesses, and how to navigate and exploit them. You cannot learn these things in even a vet trial, where you have 11 other players to carry you through the ***. vMA not only teaches you things, but forces you to learn them in order to even move on to the next add wave, let alone the next stage.
As I said. vMA is less about memorising the spawns, and more about learning the mechanics. There are dozens of guides on vMA, and I recommended two very helpful guides from Joy, who even has tips on not only each of the stages, but each of the classes. This information is out there, and if you are bashing your head against a wall, I highly recommend looking for it, as I was in the same spot.
vMA is one of the most rage-inducing pieces of content in the game if you're inexperienced, but it is one of the very few pieces of content that truly teaches you about the game at such a high level. And it rewards you with a strong weapon, that makes a good player better, but a strong player a monster.
Mister_DMC wrote: »
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm all for adding them simply to see the reaction of people that are asking for them to be added. The look of disappointment when they see their DPS increased a whopping 500 over the weapons they were previously using might be worth it alone.
ImmortalCX wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.
If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.
But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.
The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.
The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.
Not at all.
The problem is that the player base in this game is just sheer lazy. They're so used to light attacking their way through content that when anything even remotely 'challenging' comes up they'd rather it nerfed and made easier than try it.
I don't see it myself, if i play games are it's too easy i get so bored i either increase the difficulty or stop playing the game.
VMSA is 3 yr old content, it's been nerfed numerous times as well. If you aren't even willing to try the content they don't come on the forum and ask for the rewards to been made easier to get.
The game doesn't encourage experience (as in terms of game mastery). Pvp doesn't encourage it either - in fact, it does the opposite -- it encourages joining ball groups and playing follow the leader.
Unfortunately too many of these (under-experienced) players think they are better at the game than they really are -- and you know what happens next, right? Yep, the forums are inundated with posts from these players qq'ing about some class they can't kill (or got killed by), their inability to counter against some skill/ability, or how their armor is weak-sauce, etc., they either jump on the nerf bandwagon, or insist that ZOS should totally re-work large parts of the game (armor passives, skills/abilities, CP, gear sets, etc.).When vMA was first introduced nobody beat it their first playthrough, nor their second, nor their third, etc. Back then we knew what it meant to 'get gud' ... we didn't have a barrage of powerful proc sets to choose from, most of us wore agility, endurance or willpower jewelry, and we had relatively few monster sets to chose from (most wore engine guardian, blood spawn or valkyn scoria).
Since that time, for better or worse, ZOS has made it easier and easier for under-experienced players to acquire powerful gear with not a lot of effort ... ZOS knows many of these under-experienced players use this gear as a substitute for experience/game mastery.
Pumping out more and more powerful gear every 3 months isn't fixing anything, in fact, it is making things worse -- the 'power gap' between players with a lot of experience/game mastery vs. under-experienced players keeps getting wider.
You're not going to gain meaningful experience/game mastery by following the leader in a ball-group, or being carried by a group doing difficult pve content, or by watching YouTube videos.
These under-experienced players need to solo difficult content as a learning experience ... but they aren't going to do that unless they are properly incentivized. So far, all we have in that regard is Maelstrom Arena.
So why don't they just do vMA? The problem is that vMA is too difficult for many of these under-experienced players - no matter what they do they will fail; they simply are too under experienced in terms of game mechanics, timing, mastery.
While vMA may be out of reach for a lot of these players, nMA is a different story. For them, completing nMA will be very difficult and challenging, but not insurmountable. Completing this content will give them a lot of 'gains' in terms of experience, game mechanics, timing, etc.
Unfortunately, the rewards from nMA provide little in terms of an incentive to complete the content (you can get better armor sets elsewhere and in group content that you can be carried in).
THROW THEM A BONE! Make non-perfected Maelstrom weapons a reality!
Along this line of thinking, if you want more people to learn how to play Maelstrom, the reward for the normal version should be a pet.
The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.
If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.
But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.
The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.
The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.
ImmortalCX wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.
If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.
But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.
The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.
The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.
Not at all.
The problem is that the player base in this game is just sheer lazy. They're so used to light attacking their way through content that when anything even remotely 'challenging' comes up they'd rather it nerfed and made easier than try it.
I don't see it myself, if i play games are it's too easy i get so bored i either increase the difficulty or stop playing the game.
VMSA is 3 yr old content, it's been nerfed numerous times as well. If you aren't even willing to try the content they don't come on the forum and ask for the rewards to been made easier to get.
The game doesn't encourage experience (as in terms of game mastery). Pvp doesn't encourage it either - in fact, it does the opposite -- it encourages joining ball groups and playing follow the leader.
Unfortunately too many of these (under-experienced) players think they are better at the game than they really are -- and you know what happens next, right? Yep, the forums are inundated with posts from these players qq'ing about some class they can't kill (or got killed by), their inability to counter against some skill/ability, or how their armor is weak-sauce, etc., they either jump on the nerf bandwagon, or insist that ZOS should totally re-work large parts of the game (armor passives, skills/abilities, CP, gear sets, etc.).When vMA was first introduced nobody beat it their first playthrough, nor their second, nor their third, etc. Back then we knew what it meant to 'get gud' ... we didn't have a barrage of powerful proc sets to choose from, most of us wore agility, endurance or willpower jewelry, and we had relatively few monster sets to chose from (most wore engine guardian, blood spawn or valkyn scoria).
Since that time, for better or worse, ZOS has made it easier and easier for under-experienced players to acquire powerful gear with not a lot of effort ... ZOS knows many of these under-experienced players use this gear as a substitute for experience/game mastery.
Pumping out more and more powerful gear every 3 months isn't fixing anything, in fact, it is making things worse -- the 'power gap' between players with a lot of experience/game mastery vs. under-experienced players keeps getting wider.
You're not going to gain meaningful experience/game mastery by following the leader in a ball-group, or being carried by a group doing difficult pve content, or by watching YouTube videos.
These under-experienced players need to solo difficult content as a learning experience ... but they aren't going to do that unless they are properly incentivized. So far, all we have in that regard is Maelstrom Arena.
So why don't they just do vMA? The problem is that vMA is too difficult for many of these under-experienced players - no matter what they do they will fail; they simply are too under experienced in terms of game mechanics, timing, mastery.
While vMA may be out of reach for a lot of these players, nMA is a different story. For them, completing nMA will be very difficult and challenging, but not insurmountable. Completing this content will give them a lot of 'gains' in terms of experience, game mechanics, timing, etc.
Unfortunately, the rewards from nMA provide little in terms of an incentive to complete the content (you can get better armor sets elsewhere and in group content that you can be carried in).
THROW THEM A BONE! Make non-perfected Maelstrom weapons a reality!
Along this line of thinking, if you want more people to learn how to play Maelstrom, the reward for the normal version should be a pet.
Pets are not enough of an incentive and you know it!
We are talking about a game that has made it easy for under-experienced players to have as much 'raw power' as a highly experienced player via the barrage of powerful proc sets, monster sets, enhanced weapons, etc. that are so darn easy to obtain in this game (whether they be crafted, or attained via group content where the under-experienced player is 'carried' by the group). Instead of these powerful sets equalizing the power-imbalance, it turns out that these powerful sets emphasize the problem even more!Under-experienced players who get ahold of these powerful sets still get outclassed by the more experienced player. When they can't perform the way they think they should, they blame everything else, another class is OP, or some ability, skill, or passive is OP, or they blame the CP system, or their armor type is weak-sauce, or there needs to be more healing in the game, or whatever.
There comes a point when we have to look at what this game encourages, how it encourages it. A lot of content has been dummied down. Equipment is extremely powerful. It's pitifully easy to get carried in difficult content to get even more powerful gear. Join a ball group and play follow-the-leader in open world pvp. Nothing about this encourages someone to 'get gud' ... quite the contrary, it's instant gratification just about every where you look.
On the other side of the coin are the more experienced players ... and many of them have complained about dummied down content, about the forum whiners who want to nerf everything that kills them or that they can't kill, and about how open world pvp has deteriorated over the years. We complain, but what are we doing about it? What is being done to get these under-experienced players some good old-fashion in-game experience that sharpens their ability to deal with game mechanics and timing?
Well, we do have Maelstrom Arena - the only content in the game where you can't be carried by your friends or guildies. But ... guess what? A great deal of those under-experienced players don't stand a chance in hellllll of completing vMA - the experience gap is just too wide!
Think back, why did so many players grind (and I do mean grind) vMA when it first came out? Hint: it wasn't for the armor sets! If maelstrom weapons were never introduced into the game, how many people do you think would have done that content?
All I'm saying is that offering non-perfected maelstrom weapons in nMA would be a huge incentive that would get many of these under-experienced players to undertake nMA -- it will undoubtedly be very difficult for them to complete, but very difficult is not the same as impossible. I'm not saying that this is the answer to everything, but it's a darn good start.
Mister_DMC wrote: »
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm all for adding them simply to see the reaction of people that are asking for them to be added. The look of disappointment when they see their DPS increased a whopping 500 over the weapons they were previously using might be worth it alone.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@Maryal , one problem is, the difficulty gap between nMA and vMA is huge. nMA doesn't prepare people for vMA at all, it doesn't teach anything, it's almost a binary case - from "not even trying" people jump to clearing it, and come out without knowing much of mechanics and spawn points or anything. A novice will get to certain CP and will just dive into nMA to happily emerge holding a bow in his teeth, but he's still just as unprepared for vMA (or anything as difficult) as he was before. And now he doesn't even have an incentive, partially because 150 weapon damage is so much more meager reward for the sudden dive into insanity than a whole new piece of gear, and partially because wow factor is gone, he equipped the bow and it didn't make him magically hit twice the DPS he has now.