Any update to trading?

Motherball · October 2018

I’ve not played in over a year and was considering coming back but was wondering if there were any recent updates to the trading system. Are players still required to join guilds to trade (outside of using chat spam)?

Skraticus · October 2018

I just got back having not played in 3 years.

No. it's the same from what I've seen. Gotta join a guild to have access to guild stores and then there's the NPCs that guilds bid for in certain locations that give other people outside the guild access to buy their goods. That's it though.

Though something new I've noticed is now guilds seems to have weekly requirements from each member to buy/sell. yay.

Motherball · October 2018

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

qbit · October 2018

It goes both ways. Guilds that charge high membership dues for that good trader spot lose members when they lose that trader. Competition among the guilds for the big sellers with large bank rolls. Not that I am a big seller but I’d like to be one day. That’s how I role play in this game.

I joined a fourth trade guild this weekend that I recognized having a trader in a very high traffic spot. After I joined I found they lost that spot a little bit back. Disappointing. I’ll stick it out for a few weeks but I cannot sell the high volume stuff at their location. They did get one that’s a bit better last night but still nothing compare to my Vivec trader. Stuff just flies off the shelves there. People pay anything given the convenience near one of the better (if not best) crafting areas.

I like the volatility the current system introduces. It is a pain but it makes markets more interesting.

Elsonso · October 2018

ZOS has said they like what they have, so I expect they will continue down the trader path. I agree.

I am in three guilds that have a trader most of the time. One of them has a trader all of the time. All are free. The latter is free as long as you are an active trader. I have not seen any minimum trading levels that were worse than not logging in for a couple weeks.

NoTimeToWait · October 2018

Motherball wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

Well, I don't understand that. Let's take quite rigorous requirement of selling 50k gold worth of stuff per week into consideration. That's around 5 stacks of raw ancestor silk. If you can't get enough sales you just buy 5 stacks of ancestor silk and resell it with 10% discount.
You lose 7k gold at most, which is half an hour of farming dolmens. That's a price of staying in a decent guild (and when I say decent, I mean one of the best, with 50k fees) if you don't have enough stuff to sell. Which is negligible. So, to be able to stay in a guild with 10-20k requirement, you need around 20 minutes of your playtime per week at most. I find it hard to believe that you don't have that amount of time.

If you don't have even half an hour per week... Well, that means you are not a trader.

Your argument is that you have to stay in 3-4 guilds to be able to sell anything, because many guilds are often without a trader, but that is just bad decision making on your part. If you want to sell, stay in 1-2 guilds instead with higher fees but more stable trading opportunities

And any decent trading guild usually removes fees when it doesn't have guild trader.

P.S. Of course all these operations require some basic operational fund (which should amount to 120% of your fees), but come on, you can't expect to be trading without some money buffer

Motherball · October 2018

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

Well, I don't understand that. Let's take quite rigorous requirement of selling 50k gold worth of stuff per week into consideration. That's around 5 stacks of raw ancestor silk. If you can't get enough sales you just buy 5 stacks of ancestor silk and resell it with 10% discount.
You lose 7k gold at most, which is half an hour of farming dolmens. That's a price of staying in a decent guild (and when I say decent, I mean one of the best, with 50k fees) if you don't have enough stuff to sell. Which is negligible. So, to be able to stay in a guild with 10-20k requirement, you need around 20 minutes of your playtime per week at most. I find it hard to believe that you don't have that amount of time.

If you don't have even half an hour per week... Well, that means you are not a trader.

Your argument is that you have to stay in 3-4 guilds to be able to sell anything, because many guilds are often without a trader, but that is just bad decision making on your part. If you want to sell, stay in 1-2 guilds instead with higher fees but more stable trading opportunities

And any decent trading guild usually removes fees when it doesn't have guild trader.

P.S. Of course all these operations require some basic operational fund (which should amount to 120% of your fees), but come on, you can't expect to be trading without some money buffer

I sometimes don’t play for weeks or months at a time. Many guilds do not accept that as their player limit is reached. I get it, trading is for the more dedicated players or at least they seem to want it to be. Since trading is a large part of why I enjoy MMOs, I will just choose to play something with more casual trading. I was just seeing if ESO had adopted this yet.

AlienatedGoat · October 2018

Motherball wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

Well, I don't understand that. Let's take quite rigorous requirement of selling 50k gold worth of stuff per week into consideration. That's around 5 stacks of raw ancestor silk. If you can't get enough sales you just buy 5 stacks of ancestor silk and resell it with 10% discount.
You lose 7k gold at most, which is half an hour of farming dolmens. That's a price of staying in a decent guild (and when I say decent, I mean one of the best, with 50k fees) if you don't have enough stuff to sell. Which is negligible. So, to be able to stay in a guild with 10-20k requirement, you need around 20 minutes of your playtime per week at most. I find it hard to believe that you don't have that amount of time.

If you don't have even half an hour per week... Well, that means you are not a trader.

Your argument is that you have to stay in 3-4 guilds to be able to sell anything, because many guilds are often without a trader, but that is just bad decision making on your part. If you want to sell, stay in 1-2 guilds instead with higher fees but more stable trading opportunities

And any decent trading guild usually removes fees when it doesn't have guild trader.

P.S. Of course all these operations require some basic operational fund (which should amount to 120% of your fees), but come on, you can't expect to be trading without some money buffer

I sometimes don’t play for weeks or months at a time. Many guilds do not accept that as their player limit is reached. I get it, trading is for the more dedicated players or at least they seem to want it to be. Since trading is a large part of why I enjoy MMOs, I will just choose to play something with more casual trading. I was just seeing if ESO had adopted this yet.

If you're on PC/NA, I can invite you to a guild where you can invest 50k and be given a rank where you're immune from all reqs and purges. Very stable trader, and a large guild with a lot of amenities. PM me if you're interested.

rumple9 · October 2018

Trade system still sucks and in need of a QOL overhaul

Taleof2Cities · October 2018

Motherball wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

Well, I don't understand that. Let's take quite rigorous requirement of selling 50k gold worth of stuff per week into consideration. That's around 5 stacks of raw ancestor silk. If you can't get enough sales you just buy 5 stacks of ancestor silk and resell it with 10% discount.
You lose 7k gold at most, which is half an hour of farming dolmens. That's a price of staying in a decent guild (and when I say decent, I mean one of the best, with 50k fees) if you don't have enough stuff to sell. Which is negligible. So, to be able to stay in a guild with 10-20k requirement, you need around 20 minutes of your playtime per week at most. I find it hard to believe that you don't have that amount of time.

If you don't have even half an hour per week... Well, that means you are not a trader.

Your argument is that you have to stay in 3-4 guilds to be able to sell anything, because many guilds are often without a trader, but that is just bad decision making on your part. If you want to sell, stay in 1-2 guilds instead with higher fees but more stable trading opportunities

And any decent trading guild usually removes fees when it doesn't have guild trader.

P.S. Of course all these operations require some basic operational fund (which should amount to 120% of your fees), but come on, you can't expect to be trading without some money buffer

I sometimes don’t play for weeks or months at a time. Many guilds do not accept that as their player limit is reached. I get it, trading is for the more dedicated players or at least they seem to want it to be. Since trading is a large part of why I enjoy MMOs, I will just choose to play something with more casual trading. I was just seeing if ESO had adopted this yet.

Really?

You enjoy trading in MMOs but you label yourself as a ‘casual’ player?

I suspect you’re just complaining about ESO’s style of gameplay.

Which a lot of players enjoy and do well at ... even in a casual trade guild.

Of course, you do have to spend the requisite time to find the right guild.

Tandor · October 2018

The guild trader system appeals to a restricted number of players being in the main high level farmers on PC, and doesn't really cater for anyone else.

idk · October 2018

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Elsonso · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

It was the right decision to make.

Tandor · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

idk · October 2018

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Androconium · October 2018

Motherball wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

I'm sorry. This is the fundamental problem with the current Guild trading system. Players that expect the guild to retain the same location every week.

The net result is that guilds KNOW that some players will pay ludicrous "donations" in order for that guild to retain its position. However, this does not guarantee success. Other guilds go all out with rediculous bids and ghost traders that eventually sees some of the largest traders miss their regular spot on occasions.

Some guilds advertise for new trading players and then assign them to a location that reflects the players estimated turnover, which doesn't really allow for choice.

My advice is to join whatever guild you think will advantage you. DO NOT donate. Let them do the work of kicking you.
If you aren't meeting the minimum requirement anyway, the guilds in the less desirable locations will serve your purpose better. Also, leave guilds on a regular basis: treat them mean, make them keen.

I see one potential change that might provide a solution to this problem:
Players should be able to approach a kiosk and ask for membership. The player should be able to pick the location they want and see who is running the guild. If the guild loses its spot, the player can then ask the guild that picked the kiosk location up.

Mother wants me to work in Mill, but I ain't nobody's slave.

Tandor · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong about ZOS, just that the notion that the trading system is working needs to be qualified, in that it is only working for a small percentage of the playerbase. The fact that ZOS seem to be happy with that and won't change the system to open it up to more players at all levels of the game, hardcore and casual, across all platforms, doesn't make it any more satisfactory to those who don't or can't participate effectively, and so these threads will continue.

idk · October 2018

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong about ZOS, just that the notion that the trading system is working needs to be qualified, in that it is only working for a small percentage of the playerbase. The fact that ZOS seem to be happy with that and won't change the system to open it up to more players at all levels of the game, hardcore and casual, across all platforms, doesn't make it any more satisfactory to those who don't or can't participate effectively, and so these threads will continue.

It is robust and vibrant and Zos clearly sees it as working as expected if not better.

Players at all levels of the game have access to the trading system. it really just takes making a choice to join a guild. Most guilds do not charge anything to be a member. I am not charged at all. I will say there are some poorly run guilds that are social or PvE that charge players so they can have a guild trader. Those guilds should be avoided mostly due to incompetent leadership.

Heck, two of my non trading guilds have kiosks most of the time and they do not even try to be a trading guild.

Androconium · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong about ZOS, just that the notion that the trading system is working needs to be qualified, in that it is only working for a small percentage of the playerbase. The fact that ZOS seem to be happy with that and won't change the system to open it up to more players at all levels of the game, hardcore and casual, across all platforms, doesn't make it any more satisfactory to those who don't or can't participate effectively, and so these threads will continue.

It is robust and vibrant and Zos clearly sees it as working as expected if not better.

Players at all levels of the game have access to the trading system. it really just takes making a choice to join a guild. Most guilds do not charge anything to be a member. I am not charged at all. I will say there are some poorly run guilds that are social or PvE that charge players so they can have a guild trader. Those guilds should be avoided mostly due to incompetent leadership.

Heck, two of my non trading guilds have kiosks most of the time and they do not even try to be a trading guild.

I don't understand the points being made here.

Tandor · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong about ZOS, just that the notion that the trading system is working needs to be qualified, in that it is only working for a small percentage of the playerbase. The fact that ZOS seem to be happy with that and won't change the system to open it up to more players at all levels of the game, hardcore and casual, across all platforms, doesn't make it any more satisfactory to those who don't or can't participate effectively, and so these threads will continue.

It is robust and vibrant and Zos clearly sees it as working as expected if not better.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

It is indeed robust and vibrant, and ZOS clearly sees it as working as expected if not better. We both agree on that. Where we differ is in my emphasis on the fact that all of that only applies to a small percentage of the playerbase. Everyone else misses out, whether because they don't play or trade enough to sustain guild membership, don't play on PC and therefore can't use the addons that provide the sole basis on which most defenders of the system base their acceptance of it, or aren't high level farmers etc.

Time and again, polls show a roughly even split between those players who want to stick with the present system and those who do not, but they also show that of those players who favour the present system most actually want it overhauled and enhanced to include a level playing field across the three platforms and at the very least a proper search function for buyers.

Rukia541 · October 2018

It is highly inconvenient system, like a big *** you to people who want to use auction house. 1 of the very few issues I have with ESO.

idk · October 2018

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong about ZOS, just that the notion that the trading system is working needs to be qualified, in that it is only working for a small percentage of the playerbase. The fact that ZOS seem to be happy with that and won't change the system to open it up to more players at all levels of the game, hardcore and casual, across all platforms, doesn't make it any more satisfactory to those who don't or can't participate effectively, and so these threads will continue.

It is robust and vibrant and Zos clearly sees it as working as expected if not better.

fact that all of that only applies to a small percentage of the playerbase.

A fact you cannot quantify. Convenient. Of course if you attempt to quantify it I expect something more than smoke and mirrors.

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong about ZOS, just that the notion that the trading system is working needs to be qualified, in that it is only working for a small percentage of the playerbase. The fact that ZOS seem to be happy with that and won't change the system to open it up to more players at all levels of the game, hardcore and casual, across all platforms, doesn't make it any more satisfactory to those who don't or can't participate effectively, and so these threads will continue.

It is robust and vibrant and Zos clearly sees it as working as expected if not better.

Everyone else misses out, whether because they don't play or trade enough to sustain guild membership,

I specifically stated I have two guilds that are not trading guild nor try to be that often obtain a guild trader. It is not in a major city but I sell plenty through it .

So the comment quoted is false. Just need to find a decent guild.

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Very unlikely to change as Zos clearly stated why they wanted a trading system like this before launch and it has proven to provide a robust economy.

Any economy will be robust if you restrict it to a small enough number of participants, and in the case of ESO effectively restrict it further to one platform out of three for optimum effectiveness.

This does not make sense. Basically says an economy will be robust if restricted. Logic is lost somewhere in that statement.

I will repeat myself and try to offer more clarity for you.

Zos clearly stated why they wanted a guild based trading sytem before this game launched. They have seen the success in the system and it is clear it will not change.

See, they had a vision and they consider it has and is working by all measurements that are available to them. Threads of this nature have near zero chance to change that. Probably zero as long as the same people run this show.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong about ZOS, just that the notion that the trading system is working needs to be qualified, in that it is only working for a small percentage of the playerbase. The fact that ZOS seem to be happy with that and won't change the system to open it up to more players at all levels of the game, hardcore and casual, across all platforms, doesn't make it any more satisfactory to those who don't or can't participate effectively, and so these threads will continue.

It is robust and vibrant and Zos clearly sees it as working as expected if not better.

Time and again, polls show a roughly even split between those players who want to stick with the present system

Forum polls are trash. Statistically irrelevant due to improper sampling. Basic understanding about the sampling with statistics demonstrates that.

Ingenon · October 2018

Motherball wrote: »

I sometimes don’t play for weeks or months at a time. Many guilds do not accept that as their player limit is reached. I get it, trading is for the more dedicated players or at least they seem to want it to be. Since trading is a large part of why I enjoy MMOs, I will just choose to play something with more casual trading. I was just seeing if ESO had adopted this yet.

You have to be a member of a guild to sell in a guild store. On PS4 NA, in my experience, even a social guild that only has a guild store most weeks is going to expect you to log in every week. They will encourage you to buy one or more raffle tickets every week (1k each). And list/sell in the guild store when they have a location. I am not active enough to belong to a trading guild, but according to zone chat, that will cost you 5k to 10k every week on PS4 NA, with greater expectations on your sales volume.

It sounds like you already understand all of this. Good luck in finding another MMO with more casual trading!

Iluvrien · October 2018

Androconium wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

I’ve not played in over a year and was considering coming back but was wondering if there were any recent updates to the trading system. Are players still required to join guilds to trade (outside of using chat spam)?

Was wondering if there were any recent updates to the trading system?

Are players still required to join guilds to trade?

I answered these here:

Androconium wrote: »

Nope. No changes.
Yep. You still have to join a guild.

Let's consider the second point here for a moment as it one that I see keeps coming up.

Do you have to join a guild to get direct access to the markets? Yes.
Is joining a guild required to buy and sell at all? No.

As the OP specified, selling in chat is a possibility. However this lacks... elegance and is, frankly, boring and annoying.

I've suggested a third way before. It is something that I had expected to see more of, but perhaps the failure is social rather than mechanical.

Why not rely on commission factors/merchants/brokers instead?

You know someone who is in one or more reasonable trading guilds, but struggles to keep all of their slots filled.
You have stuff to sell.
This someone agrees to buy your stuff at a rate that is above vendor/chat spam rate but below the current market value. You have now profited.
This someone sells the items that you have put up for the market value. They have now profited.

Result: Both of you have access to the market, and if you disappear for a month or so... then it won't matter so much as this person will, hopefully, still be playing when you get back.

You could have entire guilds set up this way, so you only need contact a member of the guild, not join one yourself. Someone, somewhere, on their guild roster will have slots free for your stuff.

Reverb · October 2018

What's the source of the belief that the trader system only works for "a small percentage of players"? Where are some numbers on that? That's why Zeni allows 5 guilds per account. Absolutely nobody is excluded from this system unless it's by choice.

Yes some people are excluded from some guilds, but that doesn't render them ineligible to find and join others. Anyone who can't work within this system is choosing not to.

SHADOW2KK · October 2018

Trading guilds are open to all players, if you cannot make the sales required for minimal effort, then tough, if you do not want to participate in guilds, then that is ok, but the trading system does not merely work for high level farmers, naturally such a system does benefit them, but it does benefit casual sellers too, I myself only log on to do crafting writs on 14 characters per day and make a ton of sales too on top of that merely by selling excess gold mats etc etc.

The polls that periodically crop op on the forums are just a waste of space, it is not in any way indicative of the general feeling of the playerbase as most do not come here, much less care to post.

IMO, the ones who moan about the trader system make bad decisions on poor trading guilds, or have nothing of value to charge, some things are good money makers, like tri stat pots, gold mats, and other items, which have a healthy value over a long period of time.

I can only agree with what @Reverb says as well.

idk · October 2018

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Trading guilds are open to all players, if you cannot make the sales required for minimal effort, then tough, .

True. Besides some trading guilds have no real requirement, many that do have very small requirements that if someone is not meeting them they are essentially not selling anything.

Regardless, if a player will not play this game because of the trading system they clearly have little interest in the game to start with. LOL, I have played games with the stale central trading system and did not quit those games because the devs chose a boring trading system.

SHADOW2KK · October 2018

idk wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Trading guilds are open to all players, if you cannot make the sales required for minimal effort, then tough, .

True. Besides some trading guilds have no real requirement, many that do have very small requirements that if someone is not meeting them they are essentially not selling anything.

Regardless, if a player will not play this game because of the trading system they clearly have little interest in the game to start with. LOL, I have played games with the stale central trading system and did not quit those games because the devs chose a boring trading system.

Completely agree, there are many guilds with a extremely low sales requirement, even the ones that require 50k is very easy to achieve with minimal effort.

Well some people might be role playing a poor monk or something hehe.

Motherball · October 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

Well, I don't understand that. Let's take quite rigorous requirement of selling 50k gold worth of stuff per week into consideration. That's around 5 stacks of raw ancestor silk. If you can't get enough sales you just buy 5 stacks of ancestor silk and resell it with 10% discount.
You lose 7k gold at most, which is half an hour of farming dolmens. That's a price of staying in a decent guild (and when I say decent, I mean one of the best, with 50k fees) if you don't have enough stuff to sell. Which is negligible. So, to be able to stay in a guild with 10-20k requirement, you need around 20 minutes of your playtime per week at most. I find it hard to believe that you don't have that amount of time.

If you don't have even half an hour per week... Well, that means you are not a trader.

Your argument is that you have to stay in 3-4 guilds to be able to sell anything, because many guilds are often without a trader, but that is just bad decision making on your part. If you want to sell, stay in 1-2 guilds instead with higher fees but more stable trading opportunities

And any decent trading guild usually removes fees when it doesn't have guild trader.

P.S. Of course all these operations require some basic operational fund (which should amount to 120% of your fees), but come on, you can't expect to be trading without some money buffer

I sometimes don’t play for weeks or months at a time. Many guilds do not accept that as their player limit is reached. I get it, trading is for the more dedicated players or at least they seem to want it to be. Since trading is a large part of why I enjoy MMOs, I will just choose to play something with more casual trading. I was just seeing if ESO had adopted this yet.

Really?

You enjoy trading in MMOs but you label yourself as a ‘casual’ player?

I suspect you’re just complaining about ESO’s style of gameplay.

Which a lot of players enjoy and do well at ... even in a casual trade guild.

Of course, you do have to spend the requisite time to find the right guild.

Yes, I’ve played many MMOs and I’ve done very well trading in ESO in the past, so I know it’s not hard to make gold in this game. And you are right, I am complaining because out of all the things ESO has streamlined in this game over the years, the trader system remains more antiquated than EQ’s bazaar, imo. It’s not difficult, it’s annoying and tedious and could use a lot of attention.

Neoealth · October 2018

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Yeah that is the main reason I stopped playing. I love buying and selling but don’t play enough to meet most guids’ demands, nor do I like having 4/5 trading guilds w/o a guild trader for weeks at a time.

Well, I don't understand that. Let's take quite rigorous requirement of selling 50k gold worth of stuff per week into consideration. That's around 5 stacks of raw ancestor silk. If you can't get enough sales you just buy 5 stacks of ancestor silk and resell it with 10% discount.
You lose 7k gold at most, which is half an hour of farming dolmens. That's a price of staying in a decent guild (and when I say decent, I mean one of the best, with 50k fees) if you don't have enough stuff to sell. Which is negligible. So, to be able to stay in a guild with 10-20k requirement, you need around 20 minutes of your playtime per week at most. I find it hard to believe that you don't have that amount of time.

If you don't have even half an hour per week... Well, that means you are not a trader.

Your argument is that you have to stay in 3-4 guilds to be able to sell anything, because many guilds are often without a trader, but that is just bad decision making on your part. If you want to sell, stay in 1-2 guilds instead with higher fees but more stable trading opportunities

And any decent trading guild usually removes fees when it doesn't have guild trader.

P.S. Of course all these operations require some basic operational fund (which should amount to 120% of your fees), but come on, you can't expect to be trading without some money buffer

In a way I understand your argument, but from my experience I disagree. Here is why. I have joined a number of trading guilds now in my time playing (which is not a great deal of time compared to others) And I have found that even if you have the best intentions to sell and make the effort to farm up some good selling stock, if you're in a guild with a very low sales trader spot, you can easily have a week with very very low sales and not even make the minimum requirement.

I was in the situation recently where one of my trading guilds had a spot in Vivec, selling great. Made a ton of gold at that spot, then we got sniped and lost the spot, got moved somewhere else in the middle of nowhere. And suddenly everyone is complaining of low sales and not making the minimum. Does not stop the guild master from threatening kicks if we don't sell more or donate to the guild bank? Nope

That is what I dislike about the trading system in this game, how toxic and pressured it makes players feel to sell and do well. People have enough of that in real life trying to make a living, do they really need it a game they play to relax? I don't think so.

Nevertheless, despite my loathing for the trading system in this game, I have still adapted to it, and do make gold quite nicely, but the trader search system feels so antiquated and clunky. In my opinion WoW has a much better trading system with the auction house and the search is not clunky. inb4 people scream "beating a dead horse"

Neoealth · October 2018

Also, it's worth mentioning. If you look at it from a new players point of view. This is the situation.

Billy wants to start selling his goods, but oh no there seems to be no auction house. Billy soon finds out he needs to join a guild to have access to this basic feature.

Billy joins a trading guild at random, probably something like a 50k min weekly guild.

Billy has no idea what to sell to make that amount of gold a week, oh no poor Billy gets ejected from the guild *sad face* Don't hit your butt on the door on your way out Billy boy.

Billy decides that the big boy guilds are too much for him, and joins a nice 5k a week guild, yay easy peasy he thinks to himself.

Billy discovers there is a reason why the minimum is only 5k, because trying to make a sale in that spot is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

Poor Billy fails to make enough sales even for 5k and gets screamed at by the guild master to make a donation OR ELSE.

Billy eventually learned how to adapt and finally got the hang of things. But oh boy, didn't the system suck along the way.

The end.