Poll before proposing a nerf: DO YOU THINK BLEEDS ARE A PROBLEM IN PvP AND WHY?

qbit · October 2018

Deleted. Don’t need the drama and don’t care.

Katahdin · October 2018

I think bleeds are fine in their current state - Explain why/how.

If we keep nerfing every damn thing, no one will ever die. Might as well have a pillow fight instead

RedRook · October 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

If we keep nerfing every damn thing, no one will ever die. Might as well have a pillow fight instead

That might be fun, but I think we all know which class would start tickling.

RABIDxWOLVERINE · October 2018

I think bleeds are fine in their current state - Explain why/how.

NO MORE NERFS! More counters are needed if you think bleed is a problem.

Drako_Ei · October 2018

Bleeeds aren't the problem, it's other factors that force bleeds to be so prominent - Explain why.

Master DW

Troneon · October 2018

Yes bleeds need to be changed/adjusted IN ADDITION to a nerf. - Explain why/how.

The problem is they re apply too often making cleanse a useless counter to them.

Nemeliom · October 2018

I think bleeds are fine in their current state - Explain why/how.

I don't play bleed builds, but I don't think it's an issue because I play a lot in cyrodiil and bleeds are not the main damage I receive.
That's in my experience.

Wreuntzylla · October 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

its the master DW bleeds primarily.

though guessing whats going to happen:

-have bleeds. they are pretty much fine

-introduce set that makes certain bleeds op

-nerf all bleeds making the bleeds with specific sets decent and all others terrible

-BALANCED

Yeah I'd like to avoid that.

ZoS realizes that master weapons are problematic in PvP. They used to be available for top earners in Cyrodiil, but they killed that, ostensibly to limit the number of players using the weapons. So, I expect it would be their first target if they think it's a problem.

The biggest buff to bleeds happened when health regen was placed on the defile table, followed by resource poisons and then blooddrinker. However, other than blooddrinker, those aren't unique to bleeds and ended up buffing damage generally.

ZoS is all about rock, paper, scissors. (Been awhile, hopefully not outdated.)

Bleed counters:
1. Purge
2. CP resists
3. impenetrable
4. shields (sorry sorc crowd).
5. health regen
6. no cd heal procs
7. ? (I know I am forgetting a couple.)

olsborg · October 2018

Yes bleeds need to be changed/adjusted IN ADDITION to a nerf. - Explain why/how.

Bleeds are nessesary vs tanky builds. Sadly bleeds are even better vs builds that arent tanky. So axes are better then other weapons and then some.

zyk · October 2018

Bleeeds aren't the problem, it's other factors that force bleeds to be so prominent - Explain why.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

ZoS realizes that master weapons are problematic in PvP. They used to be available for top earners in Cyrodiil, but they killed that, ostensibly to limit the number of players using the weapons. So, I expect it would be their first target if they think it's a problem.

That's not what happened. They were removed from the end of campaign rewards in ESO 2.1 (2015), along with trial sets, when the level cap was raised from VR14 to VR16 because those items weren't updated to the level cap until about a year later.

The reason they were part of end of campaign rewards is because when ESO was new, PVP was much more of a priority to ZOS and during development they assured PVP focused players they would not need to grind PVE to be competitive in PVP. By the time they were updated (around 2.6) that was no longer the case.

After being updated, Master DW weapons were not meta until they were dramatically buffed in 3.2.

They are far more accessible now than they were from 1.5-2.0 because vDSA was much more difficult then and collecting them via end of campaign rewards was a VERY slow process as you were very unlikely to get the weapon you were looking for, especially with a desirable trait. You had to be extremely lucky. Not only is vDSA easier now, but traits can be transmuted.

Master weapons have never been as common in Cyrodiil as they are now.

BigBadVolk · October 2018

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

With so many running heavy armor and that playstyle probably will only increase with murkmire, bleeds provide a good counter. Unfortunately, medium and light armor users are even more vulnerable. Don't have a surefire answer to make everyone happy but without bleeds as they are I think we'll see too many nigh-unkillable tanks.

This ^ is the problem, or at least a large part of it. While bleed builds maybe OP against many light and medium armor types, bleeds are one of the few ways to successfully fight against the heavy armor, health sustain builds. If you nerf bleeds, then everyone in Cyrodiil will just switch over to heavy tank builds. You can't really fix one (bleeds) without fixing the other (heavy builds).

ye tbh thats why bleeds and some heavy sets needs some rework

Dashmatt · October 2018

I think bleeds are fine in their current state - Explain why/how.

There are plenty of things that I get annoyed seeing in my death recaps, but bleeds aren’t one of those things. I did get hit with a Bleed + Sloads 1.0 build once, and that made me sad. But that is about it.

mr_wazzabi · October 2018

I think bleeds are fine in their current state - Explain why/how.

Last night i had rending slashes, heavy weapons and twin blade bleeds stack on my death recap from the same guy.

The only nerf I'd be onboard with is preventing the stacking of heavy weapons with twin blade. Anything more will affect pve and/or make tanks unkillable.

Emma_Overload · October 2018

Yes bleeds need to be changed/adjustend - not necessarily nerfed - Explain why/how.

LOL, 44% think bleeds are just fine? Welcome to Elder Stamina Online!

Seriously, I don't know if they need a nerf, but they are definitely OVERPOWERED compared to the options available to Magicka builds. Maybe bleeds could avoid a nerf if Magicka ALSO got a status effect that was just as strong?

DanteYoda · October 2018

Bleeds are weak - Explain why/how.

Bleeds should stack and be like oblivion damage.

evoniee · October 2018

Bleeeds aren't the problem, it's other factors that force bleeds to be so prominent - Explain why.

its only strong when someone use 81cp
on thaurmaturge and all their skill are dot based (stam sorc, stam templar)

Savos_Saren · October 2018

Other - Suggest ideas.

ZOS should introduce a magicka-based version of bleeds as well. An effect that ignores all spell resistance. Keep it on par with the current damage that stamina-based bleeds output.

Bleeds are supposed to counter heavy armor builds- but only stamina-based characters benefit from using bleeds. Also, it used to be that bleeds were only melee ranged- but now the Blackrose Bow introduces a bleed effect.

CompM4s · October 2018

Bleeeds aren't the problem, it's other factors that force bleeds to be so prominent - Explain why.

Master dw is what makes bleeds so powerful.

Trinity_Is_My_Name · October 2018

Other - Suggest ideas.

Enough is enough. Stop the nerf threads. Geez louise!

HankTwo · October 2018

Yes bleeds need to be changed/adjustend - not necessarily nerfed - Explain why/how.

With the changes to shields, the twin blade and blunt and the heavy weapons passives are in need of a rework imo. What I like to see would be:

Swords: give a ~10% damage bonus to your direct damage attacks.
Axes: give a ~10% bonus to your damage over time attacks.
Maces: stay the same, ignore 20% resistances.
Ofc, all numbers would be halved for one handed weapons.

This way every weapon type would have its uses --> swords for burst builds, axes for DOT builds (which work well against block) and maces against high resistance targets.

Solariken · October 2018

Bleeeds aren't the problem, it's other factors that force bleeds to be so prominent - Explain why.

HankTwo wrote: »

With the changes to shields, the twin blade and blunt and the heavy weapons passives are in need of a rework imo. What I like to see would be:

Swords: give a ~10% damage bonus to your direct damage attacks.
Axes: give a ~10% bonus to your damage over time attacks.
Maces: stay the same, ignore 20% resistances.
Ofc, all numbers would be halved for one handed weapons.

This way every weapon type would have its uses --> swords for burst builds, axes for DOT builds (which work well against block) and maces against high resistance targets.

I like this - elegant suggestion. It would be even more amazing if magicka builds got these benefits as well (ie maces ignore phys AND spell etc).

HankTwo · October 2018

Yes bleeds need to be changed/adjustend - not necessarily nerfed - Explain why/how.

Solariken wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

With the changes to shields, the twin blade and blunt and the heavy weapons passives are in need of a rework imo. What I like to see would be:

Swords: give a ~10% damage bonus to your direct damage attacks.
Axes: give a ~10% bonus to your damage over time attacks.
Maces: stay the same, ignore 20% resistances.
Ofc, all numbers would be halved for one handed weapons.

This way every weapon type would have its uses --> swords for burst builds, axes for DOT builds (which work well against block) and maces against high resistance targets.

I like this - elegant suggestion. It would be even more amazing if magicka builds got these benefits as well (ie maces ignore phys AND spell etc).

Would be fair. However, to make it worthwhile for 2h users they would also need to adjust some of the skills. My suggestions:

Critical Rush: Loses the old effect but now additionally deals up to X% (maybe 60%) of the initial damage done as bleed damage over 5 seconds, based on the distance traveled (similar to the new razor shot bow set).
Wrecking blow: No longer grants empower but loses the cast time. Deals 40% of its damage instantly and 60% as a physical DOT over 5 seconds (maybe additionally reduce the cost).

ZeroXFF · October 2018

Yes bleeds need to be changed/adjusted IN ADDITION to a nerf. - Explain why/how.

Nerf bleeds, because I want my tanks to be immortal. And no, I can't think of any "balance" reason, I just don't like dying.

Crixus8000 · October 2018

Other - Suggest ideas.

I hate all damage that has no counter. I like gameplay to be based on skill. An enemy uses an attack and you have ways to counter it if your good enough. Bleeds are applied easily, are basically free, ignore your resistance, your block and still hit you if your around a corner.

But this game is full of things like that. I think changing the master dual wield would be the best way to start and see how they are after. Bleeds are very, very strong, but they become broken op when that's added.

Chrysa1is · October 2018

Other - Suggest ideas.

Bleed is fine as it is.

Ragnork · October 2018

Other - Suggest ideas.

Katahdin wrote: »

If we keep nerfing every damn thing, no one will ever die. Might as well have a pillow fight instead

Feathers, down or synthetic.
Synthetic is OP in my humble opinion and should be nerfed.

This is entitled a nerf thread. This might have been disputed by the originator but a rat in a dress is still a rat.

Facefister · October 2018

I think bleeds are fine in their current state - Explain why/how.

"I hate nutcrackers!" - Hazel A. Nut

JackDaniell · October 2018

Bleeeds aren't the problem, it's other factors that force bleeds to be so prominent - Explain why.

Let's be honest here, bleeds arent the problem. Zenimax needs to add more sources of negative effect removal.

This way thier are no nerf, just new content added, and bleeds get adjusted to more apropriate levels.

ZOS_GregoryV · October 2018

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts, we must remind everyone to keep on topic and to avoid baiting and flaming other members of the community.

Thank you for your understanding.
-Greg-